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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10454356.stm
I know there has been talk of putting average speed camera's along its full length for a while now which is a shame because its an absolutely fantastic road to drive / ride.
Surely the road itself is not dangerous, its the people using it who are incompetent and driving beyong their abiltity??
Is their a correlation between the UK's best drivers roads and the number of deaths? Whats the answer? To be honest I don't really know, maybe instead of road signs saying sharp bend etc, just have a board saying saying 'X deaths' at next bend and a piece of mangled car/bike, surely that would get people thinking more, or signs saying 'Are you as really as good as you think you are?'
I hope their is an aswer as its one of the most fun roads anywhere in the UK to drive, and having it sanitised would be a shame.
The average speed cameras are already up and active.
It has the cameras already.
I live in Sheffield and have to drive out on most of those roads. That is entirely not a good thing.
It's not that dangerous just near a population concentration and mid-life crisis bikers and boy racers don't know the limits of their skills.
Yet............
Speed Kills.
As above, full of motorbikers who think they are invincible. 🙁
Speed Kills.
Yup, the majority of RTC's I have attended speed is the main cause.
Yep, rear facing cameras already there 🙁
And not just that road.
The road has some great sections, and I don't think it's dangerous itself either, but there have been a lot of bad crashes over the years on it.
Not read your link, but to my knowledge, a huge chunk of these have been bikers loosing it on bends. Mainly through running wide and hitting something coming the other way, or running off the road (not too forgiving either).
ie. riding too fast without enough skill or judgement.
I have seen lots of near misses on it. Had bikes totally fly past me on the straights only to make a complete hash of the next bend. Locked rear tyres, turning in too early, running very wide, etc.
Then completely getting in my way through the bends 😉 (big and daft BMW GS here, so not so quick on the straights !)
To be fair to the police and others, they did try a lot of alternative things first: Police all over the place at weekends, advice given on riding at the Cat and Fiddle pub carpark, posters (including my favourite "ride like a ****t and die"), etc.
The cameras were a last resort. Ruined that particular road for all now. At least there are other roads around, although we will now see more accidents on those.
That's handy actually as it gives me a list of places and areas never to visit for cycling. Do the locals realise that not cracking down on speeding apart from costing them in taxes and council tax for the attendance of emergency services, medical care and clean up caused by speeding motoristas they're also losing out from the loss of income from people deciding not to visit those areas because of the attitude of those said motoristas?
[i]The report also names the highest-risk roads when crashes involving motorcyclists are excluded, with a stretch of the A18 in North East Lincolnshire topping the list.[/i]
Says it all really. Hordes of overweight, middle-aged wannabes in gut-tight leathers riding 170mph bikes they can barely control and launching themselves into the scenery. Not like STWers, erm, hang on...
BWD only about 140 mph difference.
Ian
It is only a dangerous road for those who have limited skill & ability or who have made a mistake; all of us sometimes fall into the latter category, those in the former category should just slow down a bit and take time to learn their craft.
aP...... If you are talking road cycling, then the A537 isn't much fun anyway. But it is surrounded by great cycling roads... narrow, winding, hilly, reasonable surface 🙂
And if you are talking mountainbiking then loads of great stuff around there...... don't worry.. I've never known the power rangers to lose it on a bend and go 'that' far into the scenery.
Don't see how it is for locals to slow the traffic down. Seen farmers try occasionally though !
rapid deceleration into immovable objects tends to kill.[s]Speed Kills.[/s]
It is only a dangerous road for those who have limited skill & ability
In my book that makes it a dangerous road for ALL users as the careful people are wiped out by idiots like that.
I built the telecoms installations up next to the pub so spent quite a lot of days up there, the sheer number of vehicles of all manner canning it was ridiculous. I was nearly hit by a full on rally car as I approached a bend and he was coming round it sideways with his back end in my lane.
So how many people are going to look down at their speedo instead of these
?evere bends, steep falls from the carriageway and was edged by dry-stone walls or rock face
Alot of the accidents happen because it requires competence/changing weather conditions and plain old driver error. Its not just someone ragging it as fast as they can 🙄
Most dangerous road *for motorcyclists* IIRC.
Figures are massively skewed though cos it's also one of the most popular motorcycling roads in the UK.
I've cycled it loads of times without incident although I did come round a bend once and see the ambulance driving off and the police sweeping the remains of a motorbike onto the back of a recovery truck. There was almost nothing left of the bike, it had just disintegrated on impact. The rider had been killed instantly. 🙁
Speed Kills
Why is it that I feel that after 9am there may be a lot of argument about this?
Deja Vu?
I used to ride my motorbike over it back in the 80s. It wasn't too bad up there then. The A 537 then was publicised in one of the magazines as " the best biking road" and attracted all the "born again" crashtastic idiots who kept killing themselves.
There are more dangerous roads but because of the "born agains" killing themselves the A 537 has far too many folk killed.
As above its people riding to fast for their skill levels and they pay the ultimate price.
I don't know what the answer is. Teh demographic is middle class middle aged men. They usually they had bikes in their youth and now they have some time and money they buy themselves sportsbikes that are far beyond their capabilities to ride.
Easily spotted but really hard to know what to do with them to stop them killing themselves
rapid deceleration into immovable objects tends to kill.
Only a matter of time before someone said this... 🙄
[i]Is their a correlation between the UK's [b]best drivers roads[/b]and the number of deaths? Whats the answer?[/i]
Stop treating the public roads as a personal race track, perhaps? If you're that keen on driving then get a suitable vehicle and race it, hillclimb it, or track day it.
*Windy and desolate undulating road in killing people shocker*
nickc - absolutely - but how do you stop folk doing this - driving cars / riding motorcycles for pleasure rather than for utility
Couple that with the tendency for some folk to drive / ride faster than their skill levels.
Ride beyond your skill levels on an MTB you get gravel rash and occasional broken bits of you and bike
Drive a car beyond your skill levels you make car shaped holes in the scenery and occasionally wipe out innocent passers-by
Do it on a motorcycle and you get killed when you hit something solid in the scenery. You don't even have to be going ridiculously fast - indeed often the crashers are not going that fast. 50 - 60 mph is common ( as it tends to be sharp corners where they crash)
I can't believe no one has mentioned Dunning-Kruger effect yet
rapid deceleration into immovable objects tends to kill.Only a matter of time before someone said this...
Because it's the truth.
It's god's way of culling idiots.
It amazes me how many otherwise intelligent people seem to think that the ability to twist a throttle or press an accelerator in some way enhances their manly image. Sorry lads, even girls can do that - and often better 🙂
Place enormous tax burdens on any car that's capable of acceleration over a set limit,
Tax burdens on vehicles capable of exceeding the speed limit,
Tachos in every vehicle,
Satellite tracking,
Make the roads dull.
Invest in technology that makes vehicles drive to destinations atomatically.
Actually properly invest in public transport
Bit of blue sky thinking....
Make the roads dull.
Probably responsible for just as many accidents. M6 Junction 14-16 par example!
It's just thinking of the top of my head, but yeah dull roads probably have an impact on driving. Bet it's not as much as speeding though...
How about a system that automatically restricts you to the speed of the road, as you enter a speed restricted area, of say 30 a system makes it impossible for the vehicle to go faster than that, regardless of how much you press the accelerator
gwaelod - MemberI can't believe no one has mentioned Dunning-Kruger effect yet
I just googled that and indeed IMO it has a significant relevance to the issue.
Advanced training is now reasonably common in motorcycling and to do advanced training is not uncool.
When you are out riding a motorcycle on these roads the crashers are easy to spot. Fast down the straights and slow on the corners and taking the same cornering lines as cars.
usually big sports bikes and " power ranger" suits
Because it's the truth.
🙄
It's merely a result of the speed in the first place. One could constantly drill down until we get to the cellular damage to various organs resulting from the [i]rapid deceleration[/i]. I've heard that really fast objects hitting practically stationary humans can kill too. I think that might be some kind of rapid acceleration. But feel free to correct me.
I've cycled up, down, across the Cat many times (including Sunday). It's far better now with the speed cameras - fewer idiots tear-arsing about.
Sadly, I have on more than one occasion, had to cycle past the remains of a crash. Seeing a large pile of sand on the road mopping up the blood of a dead biker isn't very nice.
Oh, and I regularly cycle on several of those top 10 most dangerous roads. I think I ought to change my routes....
OK, so why is people killing themselves through their own stupidity such a bad thing?
Serious injury, yes, because that costs taxpayers money to sort out, but frankly I could think of much worse ways to go than wrapping myself round a tree at 100+mph and dieing instantly, and I'd be quite happy to just be swept off the road and left there for the crows. I'm not gonna care am I?
I enjoy driving. Give me a nice *empty* country road and I'll drive it as hard as I dare (currently skill and car capability outweighs nerve by some margin - too much at stake). Why? It's fun. Exactly the same reason as I ride bikes. If I **** it up, it's my problem, and I'll have to live (or not) with the results. I'm hopless at overtaking, and I'm cautious on blind bends, simply because I don't want to involve others in my mistakes.
The roads mentioned in Derbyshire aren't inherently dangerous the dangerous bit is the drivers belief that:
- they know whats coming round the corner/out of the dip
- because the road on this side of the bend isn't icy it
will be fine on the exit too
[i]I enjoy driving. [s]Give[/s] let me a pay for a nice *empty* [s]country road[/s] race track, where I'll be less of a danger to every other user and I'll drive it as hard as I dare [/i]
Fixed it etc etc
I went to the cat and fiddle pub a while back and there is a sign outside that details the number of accidents by type, so there were
x motorbike and another motorbike
x motorbike and car
x motorbike and no other vehicle
and my favourite
1 motorbike and sheep
I know its not funny but I still laughed when i saw it
The roads mentioned in Derbyshire aren't inherently dangerous the dangerous bit is the drivers belief that:
- they know whats coming round the corner/out of the dip
- because the road on this side of the bend isn't icy it
will be fine on the exit too
+1
The belief that just because you are a better driver or motorcyclist than the "weekend warriors" you can be safer at speed is just idiotic.
...just have a board saying saying 'X deaths' at next bend and a piece of mangled car/bike
I drive that way from Sheffield to Cheshire as a student and was enjoying it one winter when I saw a car on it's back in a field quite far from the road. I did slow down.
Richie
Its not that. its that they are riding their bikes beyond their skill level - so the unexpected happens and they don't have the skill to deal with it.
Tends to go along with poor observation but its the actual physical skills.
For example the bend that tightens. You need to countersteer and apply a little throttle to tighten the line. The crasher panics and backs off the throttle - this makes the bike run wide so they crash - at a speed far below that which it is possible to ride around that corner.
This is the classic motorcycle accident that causes all the deaths on roads like the A 537
its that they are riding their bikes [s]beyond their skill level[/s] too fast - so when the unexpected happens and they don't have the [s]skill[/s] time to deal with it
fixed it.
LHS - MemberThe belief that just because you are a better driver or motorcyclist than the "weekend warriors" you can be safer at speed is just idiotic.
Do you not see the absurdity in that statement?
If you are more skilled ( actually more skilled not just think you are) you will be safer.
LHS - you are simply wrong on this. when two riders can ride round the same corner and one can get round it easily with plenty to spare and the other crashes due to lack of skill then you cannot say the first was going too fast.
Most of these crashes occur due to a lack of skill. Most occur at speeds which a competent rider could easily ride. We are talking at 50 mph bends
JonEdwards - MemberOK, so why is people killing themselves through their own stupidity such a bad thing?
Serious injury, yes, because that costs taxpayers money to sort out, but frankly I could think of much worse ways to go than wrapping myself round a tree at 100+mph and dieing instantly, and I'd be quite happy to just be swept off the road and left there for the crows. I'm not gonna care am I?
I enjoy driving. Give me a nice *empty* country road and I'll drive it as hard as I dare (currently skill and car capability outweighs nerve by some margin - too much at stake). Why? It's fun. Exactly the same reason as I ride bikes. If I **** it up, it's my problem, and I'll have to live (or not) with the results. I'm hopless at overtaking, and I'm cautious on blind bends, simply because I don't want to involve others in my mistakes.
The fact is many accidents many accidents do involve lots of Innocent people, by their very nature the accidents are when something unexpected happens, whether it's a car pulling out of a junction or corner being sharper than you expect or some fuel on the road. If you want to race goto a race track, it's hardly an unfair think to ask.
TJ, we disagree on this one as shown on other threads.