[Closed] Cat D write off - talk to me

MOT is no guarantee of road-worthiness, just that it can pass an MOT, on the day of the test. other than that though, if you have someone who is going to look over it properly, you trust them, teh price is right, and you're keeping the car for a long time - why not? if you were only planning on keeping it a few years, then selling it on, then remember how you are looking at it now. the price differential will be smaller then, and there'll be plenty of 'straight' ones around ( assuming it's not something exotic ) to choose from for a potential buyer.

What kind of car is it?
Which garage repaired it? Would you trust their work?
I've had a few write offs throughout the years. My uncle owns a bodyshop and I know the repair will be right.

There was a question about a Cat D write off in today's Autocar. Apparently it's the lowest category of write off, as in the least badly damaged, so perhaps get your garage to have a look at it?

If "it was totally smashed up." it would have been a Cat C, B or A.

I wouldn't have a problem with buying Cat D if it was half price. If you're that bothered pay for a HPI report and that might have more information regarding the write off on it.

Unfortunately the HPI just says it Cat D - no details as to why.

cat D is just financially not viable to repair for a company. Its often financially viable for private individuals. My first car (peugeot) would have been a cat D and, later, a cat C due to small-ish bumps.

You want to check for body damage away from the impact site (kinks/misalignments etc) and get underneath and check for chassis damage/ripples. If none are apparent I'd risk it.

Cat Deeley I suppose she's getting a bit old and there are a lot of attractive young presenters coming along. But I think she's run for a couple more years .... oh your on about your car sorry.

Phew, I thought something had happened to Cat Deeley!! Thats a relief.

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It's a Berlingo multispace, only want to put muddy bikes in it!

The garage I know (who are well trusted) are willing to stick it up on the ramp etc... and take a good look and the seller is willing to drive it there for me so he appears to have nothing to hide...

Apparently I can take it to a place and for £200 they will inspect it and if passes will remove the Cat D status and becomes something else? I asked the seller why he didn't so this and he said he never bothered as his insurance company insured it anyway. The guy at the place that does this test is currently looking into whether the car was ever taken to him and it failed etc...

Pesonally I'd buy a cat D, just get it checked out (AA/RAC Inspection?)

But I wouldn't go anywhere near ANY French car.

A fast and loose definition of cats would be;
cat A - crush (used mostly for fatals)
cat B - strip for parts and crush (where the shell is badly twisted)
cat C – beyond economical repair (repair cost is equal or more than car value)
cat D – constructive total loss (the cost of repair + the value of the salvage is equal or more than the car value)

So generally if the repair has been carried out satisfactorily then you should be safe to buy a cat D repaired car.

It’s surprising what cars can be judged cat D. Some bigger engined stuff is ripe for cat D as the there value has dropped considerably recently.

So for instance a high mile 2002 Merc ML is down to 7k @ retail. You drive down the side of something solid and damage the bumper, lamp, wing and two doors. The repair bill would be c 5k. The insurance company only need to realise 2k for the salvage to “bridge” the gap.

The salvage company then fit second hand parts and repaint it all for 2k. So that’s a 7k car for 4k and that repair would only be bolt on cosmetic stuff making a lot of sense as used buy, but only if repaired correctly and with a view to running it for a while.

But I wouldn't go anywhere near ANY French car.

Personal opinion, I know, but that is totally irrational.

Any way of finding out the reasoning for the insurance company to write off? I'm guessing there's a big difference btween a stolen/recovered and one wrapped round a lamp post?!

a berlingo wrapped round a lamp post would most likely be a cat C... there only worth 87p and a banana skin at the best of times.

😛

Any way of finding out the reasoning for the insurance company to write off? I'm guessing there's a big difference btween a stolen/recovered and one wrapped round a lamp post?!

Not that I know of. But a cat D really is minimal damage on a cheap car. Bear in mind the main dealer wanted [b]half the 2K value of my car[/b] to replace two front shocks, 2 wheel bearings, two tyres and do an alignment.

Exactly, on older cars just broken locks/steering lock can write off a car.

It's an 05 if that makes any difference? Worth around £4k tops without cat D I guess (if you could find someone who'd part with that much cash for a van...!).

Personal opinion, I know, but that is totally irrational.

No, based on experience, and the experience of a fair few others (Including a mechanic who used to work for a French car dealers), it's actually the most rational thing I know about cars. Basically, they are utter tat.

No, based on experience, and the experience of a fair few others (Including a mechanic who used to work for a French car dealers), it's actually the most rational thing I know about cars. Basically, they are utter tat.

Based on well over a decade of owning and repairing mine and other peoples cars (french, german and jap) I'm happy to conclude the exact opposite. They do have some oddities (strange designs) but they're not more liable to failing than any other. I have found quite a few people with this sort of hatred of them, but it tends to stem from unrealistic weighting of experiences IMO... "oh the speaker wire broke - christ, appalling french electrics, theyre all crap bla bla bla even joe bloggs down the road thinks so". Also bear in mind that frnech cars tend to be at the cheaper end of the scale, and so are going to be built to match lower prices so they're not going to be a germanic tank.

Still, the more people think like you the cheaper reliable cheap cars are for me, so keep it up 😉

Hi all

Keep spreading the word about french cars being crap!!

Obviously not my feeling at all after owning 5 french cars over the last 20years (all been reliable unlike some of the German company cars I've had), but it makes buying them second hand great.

ive been seriously tempted by a few Cat D on autotrader, there was a 3 year old golf GTI on there a while back, full leather, xenons, sat nav the full monty 8k but was a Cat D. but being the car it is i guess its the worst kind to go for.

i guess end of the day you will always have that niggle in the back of your mind wondering "what actually happened"?

oh with regards 'french are cars are crap bollox', i have to agree with coffeking and tonyg203, ive had a saxo P reg and a pug 306 T reg, the only major thing with the pug was the brake lines needed renewing it is still going a bloke in work still has it and even took it to germany and back and it was fine. the saxo is also still going around 110k on the clock 1.1 engine, only major thing with that was a new battery and belts!

OK, lets list what I know about French cars.

A collegue had a ZX. Head gasket went at under 100k. Other electrical faults. He replaced it with a Picasso, the whole dashboard packed up, amongst other things
My wife used to have an AX. Left her stranded twice and the bonnet catch failed on the motorway and the bonnet flipped up in front of the windscreen. Nice.
Another collegue currently has a newish Picasso. He gats random warning lights coming and going. Last week the fuel pump went on the M25
My dad had a little Citroen (C2?) a few years ago. Brnad new. He got rid of it because of the constantly creaking interior and electrical niggles.
A mate of mine worked as workshop manager in a French car (Don't remember which) dealers. He used to take delight in telling us of nerly new cars then came back needing new engines, gearboxes etc and the average warrnanty cost of the cars they sold was something like 2-3 times what it should have been
One of the reps here has a Renault. It keeps pissing diesel all over the place, from various injector pipes and the like.

I'm not just talking about small stuff here: Major failure of major mechanical components.

Utter, utter crap.

If you want a cheap car, get a Vauxhall. Clarkson has ruined the resale values of Vecras, which is quite handy.

The reason why French cars are cheap is because they are garbage, in general. Yeah you might be lucky. Or you might not.

Have a look here

Citroen and Renault, 38 claims per 100 cars

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[i]Citroen has made little progress since last year, in fact, there is now one more claim for every hundred cars than there was in 2004.

........

Nearly half of all the claims handled by Warranty Direct on behalf of Citroen owners were related to axle and suspension troubles. The cars’ electrics were the next most problematic, accounting for almost 18% of claims.

While Citroen sits towards the bottom of the overall league table, the Xsara (built between 1997 and 2005) comes a respectable 18th amongst the individual models.

Verdict: ** Reliability hasn’t improved greatly, but costs have come down
[/i]

Personally I [u]would need[/u] to see photographs and evidence/details of the repair itself. Dont forget a repairer might do just enough to get the car roadworthy again. Plus does the car have a full service history upto that point? You dont throw your other sensibilities out of the window just because a car is 'cheap'.

Some cars are Cat D for lesser damage than others due to the cost of repair so that can skewer things. TBH - I would need to see evidence of the damage/notes and detail of what went into the repair.

I'd definitely buy a Cat C/D but wouldnt a water damaged write off or certain severity etc. Just because a part in the car wasnt damaged directly doesnt mean it'll fail later due to multiple reasons.
Your not facing the bargain you think you are IMO.

Oh hell, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

2008 JD Power survey....

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All the French cars nicely grouped down near the bottom.....

Ps. Just reread your first post. He doesnt have evidence of the repair? WALK AWAY. Even if he repaired it himself he would have bought the parts. Say this to him and I bet he pulls out a few receipts/tries talking you round spinning something. If he hasnt now- says to me alarm bells. Walk.

I'd rather buy a CAt D'd car and have it repaired- then I'd trust it. Or buy one from a good friend. Otherwise lots of photos/details and engineer reports/insurance report etc from the time itself.

I have owned french cars for years and whilst they have ther niggling problems they are cheap to fix and run where as the others are really expensive when it comes to repairs.
The problems that you list people having i know people who have had those problems on 40k bmw and mercs so that proves nothing.
plus you will find that a higher percentage of people reply to those things to justify buying there overpriced cars in the first place.

All I currently know is that he bought it from auction with no MOT or tax and "all" that was wrong with it was a dent in the rear bumper/door and a few scratches.

A friend of a friend owns an independent garage who speciaise in Citroens and is more than happy to put it up on the ramps and take it for a test drive etc... for me. He seems to think if it's a total no go zone he can tell straight away...?

A friend of a friend owns an independent garage who speciaise in Citroens and is more than happy to put it up on the ramps and take it for a test drive etc... for me. He seems to think if it's a total no go zone he can tell straight away...?

What if it was flood damage? There will be a fair few flood damaged cars knocking about on the market from the floods not so long ago.

When my MX5 was repaired (rear ended). Theres no way you could have guessed it had been rear-ended- the rear had been cut out and rewelded however the bumper and panels covered all this. The best your mate can do is check the beams/frame but you'd have to take the bumper off and strip down to see better. Plus. If the beams/frame is out of line or cracked- how can he check unless checks the alignment and again strips down?

I say walk away and find another.

In addition, its 50% cheaper. Are you keeping this car to run into the ground? When you come to sell you also have to find a buyer. Imagine if it turns into a snotter/nightmare and your stuck trying to find a new buyer? A prospective buyer would need to buy into a Cat D AND would reasonably ask you for proof of repair/details.

"A dent in the rear bumper door" wouldnt make the repair uneconomical.

If the car was say worth/book at £800 and the repair say £400 then yes. However I think a dented bumper/door in your case means a heavy rear end (i.e. the door in question is the rear hatch).

Ask your mate if theres anyway he can check the alignment of the subframe/etc. I reckon its a heavy rear-ender.

A Category C or D write-off is one that insurers consider unecomonical to repair but one that could, given enough time in the workshop, be repaired and returned to the road.

That says to me a dented rear bumper and door wouldnt take that much time to repair?

My car was a CAT C after someone drove into the side of it. I'd slowed from 30 to 20mph when someome pulled out of a side road.

The car was driveable afterwards and the airbags didn't go off. it was only cat C'ed because it was worth a fair bit as spare parts. They offered to sell it back to me and i should have done it because i reckon i could have fixed it with some spare bits off ebay. The crash inspectors said there was no chassis damage (most important thing), most of the repair cost was for a respray.

i can't see why you'd buy it back to sell on though. might as well take the insurance.

I've now been sent some pics of it when he bought it at auction - to me as a total amateur it looks pretty superficial, happy to send pics across to anyone who can form an educated opinion (as opposed to just being nosy!!).

markhoracekuk @ yahoo.com please 🙂

Sent!

Received. No service history present, no engineers/insurance company report. I'd find another. IF you had found this car at the auction yourself then its different- you'd know the progress of the repairs and feedback on recommendations etc from the repairing garage. The seller however has an ulterior motive to sell so he wont be honest and say 'all repaired as required'. He'll just make the outside shiny and pretty.

Plus- that wee stain on the drivers seat. Err. NO!! 😀

We had a car writen off as cat c due to the salvage price. We bought it back and put it back on the road for not that much as i didn't use new parts and bought second hand. The damage to the car was the rear axel and rear bimber with some superfical damage to the rear wing.
I would buy a cat c or d write off as how do you know that the car you are buy hasn't been in a bump and been repaired with out using the insurance company? at least with a cat c/d you know what has happened.

My MX5 was repaired for 3k through an insurance company. It wont show on any register.

You dont know whats happened to a cat C or D if there is no report/notes/paper trail available to back up the bill/details. You just have the word of the seller who has an ulterior motive.

I'd personally need a paper trail to show what had been done and notes stating what would need replacing and evidence showing the new part/replacement.

send the pics over on rlh_harrison@hotmail.com if you'd like a 2nd opinion.

Part of peoples problems is believing "surveys" and what people read/hear from friends. While I've no doubt the cheaper french cars are going to come lower down on the charts for people claiming off their warranty (and I've heard some rediculous warranty claims put in, usually by people who've bought car they can't afford to look after) as they're cheaper cars, but there's no reason to assume they've BAD cars. For every negative experience you post there I can post positives and people with cars that have gone above and beyond. They're cheap and easy to repair and if you know the slightest thing about cars you can and do spot the faults before they become terminal and repair costs are minimal.

I've no experience with the newer models (~2003 onwards) which I believe do indeed have many dash and electrical problems, and I do know one pug owner who recently had their sunroof leak, but aside from that I struggle to see how everyone gets these problems and have never met anyone personally who has.

I've a couple of mates in the mech workshops at dealers, one for pug and one for renault, the renault seems to have more built-in problems.

My MOT (independant) tester says its always a pleasure to MOT pugs because they always fly through, rarely have any rust and are nice and simple to work on when you need to. I'd agree. Though I do have slightly sticky rear calipers after 120K miles.

My MOT (independant) tester says its always a pleasure to MOT pugs because they always fly through,

Gulp I hope so. I have a 306 sat on the drive for almost two years that needs to get started again soon!!!

Thing is you'll never convince people, who've been stung, otherwise. And likewise I'll probably not change my opinion unless I get a succession of poor french cars. I'll keep trying.

What you need to remember is that sure, they may be cheaper and less well put together, but they cost a lot less, cost less to repair (especially if you do it yourself and are only buying parts) and tend to be lighter and more economical.

At the same time as I bought my recent 306 estate my brother bought a BMW 330D for 4x the price and 5 years newer, with full BMW service history. In that time I've had a crank pulley (caught early, really only replaced "just in case") and a wheel bearing (caused by a pothole impact).

He's had a new window motor, a new injector, new MAF, 3 trips to the dealer for MILs, a full new set of suspension bushes for the rear, a full new set of shocks all round and has had to glue and pin his intake manifold back together himself. It's a nice car, but I'd have expected better TBH. Amazing car, lovely and comfortable, grips like glue, goes like stink but by god has it cost him.

French cars (not being picky, this is all the ones my friends have owned, none have worked!)

New clio - random alarm/CL/imaboliser faults, occasionaly stops whilst driving!

saxo - the dash resembled a disco at times, but it was in cornwall therefore a Cat D writoff by default anyway.

pug 206 - you could on occasions drive back form the garrage before another warning light came on, but more often than not it didn't seem to make it off the ramps! Suspension/tracking needed re-doing every 2-3 months.

scenics - more blown turbo's than seats

another 206 - £500 bill at the last service for stuff that had fall apaprt that realy shouldn't have done.

And thats just close friends, god knows what theyr like on a national scale!

For the original poster, if you aren't qualified or happy in your own mind to buy, walk away. Whats a few quid more for peace of mind and possibly even you or your friends/families safety?

In defense of french cars I had a 2cv that got to 27 years old still running before it finally buckled under the weight of its own rust. Though there was very little that could go wrong I suppose 🙂

Thanks - apprecaite the advice one and all.

brassneck, I drove past a chap in a 2cv on the motorway the otherday, beeped and gave him the thumbs up!