[Closed] Casual racists

When I saw the title "Casual Racists", I was expecting a thread about premiership football players and their fans ...

No thats ok, he was only repeating what he heard- apparently the black footballer racially abusing himself..

You need to realise that someone fat can diet and that someone chinese can do nothing about this fact

I always refer to a Chinese meal as "a Chinese", in the same way as I refer to an Indian meal as "an Indian" (as in: "Going out for an Indian").

"Chinky" is a racist term. Get over it and stop using it.

End of.

[s]Rather than froth at the gills over crass naivety[/s] [b]because I can't form an argument to justify the casual insults I've been bandying about, which show 'a lack of empathy on a basic level' in themselves,[/b] I'm also out.

FTFY.

I always refer to a Chinese meal as "a Chinese", in the same way as I refer to an Indian meal as "an Indian" (as in: "Going out for an Indian").

Considering what you're served is a stereotyping construct for the Brits, rather than a dish that is actually eaten in any of these countries that's a pretty narrow minded view of other cultures and their culinary traditions.

I think the correct phrase is "going out for a meal of Asian origin made to fit British stereotypes"

It's not a "pretty narrow minded view of other cultures and their culinary traditions. ", it's a way of referring to available food.

Don't be a plonker. 😉

She's heard and been called that term before, she just hasn't heard anyone use it to refer to a Chinese take away. But due to the meaning she associates it, she would be upset.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Like I said a few pages ago and someone said this morning, educate yourself about who and what is deemed offensive and react politely.

The problem there is that, with the best will in the world, what's offensive to one person is preferred by another, and any established 'correct' terminology changes with the phase of the moon (as ably demonstrated on this thread).

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I'm more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I'll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

I wouldn't use the word 'chinkie' in reference to a take-away food outlet, but if I did, it'd be because it was a contraction / nickname for 'Chinese' in the same way that 'Jonathan' might become 'Jonno,' rather than because I harboured a deep-seated hatred of our oriental-originated bretheren.(*) I suspect that the vast majority of people who do use the term feel much the same (and again, we've seen people here go "sorry, I didn't realise, won't do it again").

Deadlydarcy of this very parish referred to me as 'Cuggie' the other day, shall I conclude that he's felist and write a stern letter of outrage to the Daily Mail?

(* - incidentally; is there a big problem with anti-Chinese racism? I don't think that's anything I've ever come across, aside from the typical childish nonsense back when I was at school. I always thought the British Chinese and the British Caucasians, generally, liked each other and got on well.)

Don't be a plonker.

Just trying to fit in. 🙂

Bazinga.

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I'm more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I'll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

After 7 pages, still think its not complicated?

Yup. Try, in general to be respectful of other people and not to cause offence by being insensitive. If you get it wrong live and learn. I'm sure this is what most people do, though some on here would call it PC gone mad.

Gonna trot out this Stewart Lee quote again.

It really worries me that 84% of this audience agrees with that statement, because the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the ****s and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots.

+1

Yup. Try, in general to be respectful of other people and not to cause offence by being insensitive. If you get it wrong live and learn.

A lovely, simple way of living life, and it everyone did this, it wouldn't be so complicated. But they don't, so it is...

You're a bunch of idiots.

Nicely sums up the majority of the thread really.

"you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots.

I don't feel oppressed. Should I?

Isolationist thinking. You know for centuries we've travelled the world as a people, traded, robbed, hung out with and inter-married.

Then there are those who prefer the village mentality and stay landlocked except for 2weeks a year building their 'Castle Britannia'.

Hora, you have completely misunderstood that entire quote. And that's coming from a monobrowed low educated Anglo Saxon...

Cougar, I unilaterally withdraw the "Cuggie" comment if it upset you. I am wringing the very blood out of my hands. 🙁

Calling a piece of food a chinky is not a problem IMO. If its then no more trips to the chip shop for fish & chips 🙁

Apparently fat people are now no longer obese too, or so NHS staff are told...

Nicely sums up the majority of the thread really.

I disagree, and so do the moderators. we have of course been keeping a close eye on things but we are genuinely impressed with the level of debate and how it hasn't exploded considering the difficulty and sensitivity of the subject matter. Yes, there are strong opinions and we've had to warn couple of people quietly in the background but on the whole, this is a good thread.

Sorry Grum, but I grew up in exactly the same context as Stewart Lee and while agreeing with him on the trends, completely disagree with (1) the success identified is due to political correctness, that (2) PC = institutional politeness in an exclusive sense, or that (3) it is only attributable to left wing politics. Other than that, some pretty good points there...

Perhaps many/some of the white, middle class idiots that he refers to align themselves with a different part of the Establishment (that he seems to deride) but live by the same moral code ie, "love thy neighbour as thyself"? 😉 Same conclusion, but different moral drivers - no need to be exclusive about it! That's another form of -ism, surely?

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended. I'm more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I'll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

[i]A million times this. If we all thought like this, we would all get along a little better. Too many people seem to strive to be offended, like its some kind of hobby or something.[/i]

^^This. At the end of the day, pretty much anything anyone says to or about anyone could be construed as "offensive". While we shouldn't go out of our way to deliberately offend, it's also worth remembering that we are human beings, we will sometimes get stuff wrong, and 99.9999% of the time, it is easily fixed with a simple "oh, sorry about that" (note not some ridiculous humble grovel) and remembering for next time.

I really struggle with the "professionally offended", especially when it isn't even them that are offended, it's on behalf of someone else. As my grandad used to say "was I talking to you or about you? No, then mind your own business".

Professionally offended is just a lazty slur directed at an illdefined group to give you impunity to be rude about them.
Its madness to think if the slur is not about me I should ignore it- well it was not my bike they were stealing so i just sat amnd watched 😕
I may as well argue there is the professionally offensive who try to offend everyone they meet including your mother. Its adds nothing because it is a fictional charachter who probably reports everything to the thought police 😕

A better solution might be for the terminally offended and the offended-by-proxy people to stop taking offence where clearly none was intended.

I'm more than happy to try and adapt the language I use in order to minimise any possible misunderstandings, but there has to be some benefit of the doubt coming the other way too. Ie, I'll try not to be offensive, you try not to be offended. Ok?

Cougar, I unilaterally withdraw the "Cuggie" comment if it upset you. I am wringing the very blood out of my hands.

Just not good enough. I am, of course, mortally offended. I accept apologies in most major forms of alcohol.

Its a lazy stereotype that I have yet to meet in the real world

In which case, it doesn't apply to anyone, so no-one's affected by it. Everyone's a winner.

I am sure that will happen if everyone knew everyone was trying their best to not be offensive - do you think this is what we have now?

What we have now is a matter of debate (oh, hey!). But perhaps if by default we gave people the benefit of the doubt rather than just knee-jerking there'd be fewer issues?

As I said, I don't believe there's no 'one size fits all' answer; read back in this thread, we've anecdotal tales of different people objecting to and preferring different terms. What's acceptable to one is offensive to another. It's a minefield. If we could just establish a precedent which says "these words are universally ok, these are not" it'd be a lot simpler. But we can't, so we have to rely on context, intent, and common sense. Which is where some people fall down, it seems.

What's acceptable to one is offensive to another. It's a minefield. If we could just establish a precedent which says "these words are universally ok, these are not" it'd be a lot simpler. But we can't, so we have to rely on context, intent, and common sense. Which is where some people fall down, it seems.

with that kinda post we're in danger of finishing the debate 😯

oh hang on, this is STW

What we have now is a matter of debate (oh, hey!). But perhaps if by default we gave people the benefit of the doubt rather than just knee-jerking there'd be fewer issues?

There will always be some people who set out deliberately to offend, whether that's out of ignorance, prejudice or a desire to be noticed. And I'm not talking exclusively about racism etc.

The majority of us offend people by accident. That's all it is.

There are alot of stubborn people on here who seem to avoid the fact that 'chinky' isn't an acceptable label to use in any context.

[url=

cougar + 1

Try not to be offensive. Try not to take offence where none's intended.
And try to recognise those who make a career out of doing the opposite, like the ex-comedian Stewart "[i]You're a bunch of idiots[/i]" Lee.

There will always be some people who set out deliberately to offend

Sure. But as you say, the majority don't. So really, we should be assuming innocent until proven guilty.

There are alot of stubborn people on here who seem to avoid the fact that 'chinky' isn't an acceptable label to use in any context.

I don't think there's anyone doing that. Though there's been a few who didn't realise.

[quote=loum]Try not to be offensive......

[quote=loum] those who make a career out of doing the opposite, like the [b]ex-comedian [/b]Stewart Lee

Stuart Lee may find that comment quite offensive.

But then again, it was supposed to be really wasn't it ? 😉

You're off to a cracking start.

This always makes me laugh..

We were sat in a Manchester pub and I overheard a Gas/Plumber bitching about Polish workers coming in and driving down his prices due to oversupply......then he started reminising about the good times in the building boom in 80's Germany when he and his mates went over and.....took work off Germans there... 😆

In which case, it doesn't apply to anyone, so no-one's affected by it. Everyone's a winner.

[img] [/img]

I reject the idea that some folk are walking around trying to be offended

TBH, they're more likely to be at home on a computer forum 😉

According to Magda in my office Pole isn't offensive to her and wouldn't be to any of her countrymen/women. Her response was "Why would it, it's just a shortening of Poland or Polish. In our language it just means stick".

I went through secondary school being predominantly called "the gora".

"the gora".

Did you take the time to learn some Punjabi? It amazes and warms people to no end if you did you know. I did.

I went through secondary school being predominantly called "the gora".

Forgive my spelling as I've only ever heard this spoken, but the only context in which I've heard that term is "gora rami" which, as far as I can glean, translates as "white bastard".

(I'm not sharing this in order to be controversial, just anecdotal; it was a fairly common insult at my school)

[img] [/img]

IGMC...

The 'offended-by-proxy'/'terminally offended' etc is the same as getting pissed off at 'money making speed cameras' when a speeding ticket is received - caught out doing something wrong but can't possibly be at fault.

gora rami

Glitchbumperama

I reject the idea that some folk are walking around trying to be offended

There are a lot of people with a very immature concept of being "offended", i.e. many seem to get "offended" simply because they can't cope with opinions different to their own, as opposed to something that's [i]actually[/i] offensive (like racism).

There was no rami added to it, just "the gora's" so basically being called "the white". So in contect "the gora has done his bloody homework".

Hora - I didn't actively try to learn punjabi, but I did ask what things meant, mainly swear words and parts of the anatomy. Most of the kids at school only spoke punjabi when they were swearing or being offensive about someone and spoke English the rest of the time. We had a reasonable level of multilingual profanity at school, given that just less than 50% of kids at my school were from families that had English as their first language at home. I've forgotten most of it now though. Predominance was Punjabi and Italian, we generally didn't get much info out of the Urdu and Bengali speakers.

Throughout college I was the only white person in a group of friends. The majority were Asian (****stani descent), couple of black guys, two chaps of Moroccan descent, one was half white, half ****stani and a Chinese friend. We all still very close 15 years later but sometimes it was tough being the minority.

I never experienced any racism from within our group - aside from a bit of casual ribbing - but there were occasions when we'd meet other groups of exlusively Asian guys who would absolutely point blank refuse to acknowledge me. I'm talking about everyone doing a round of hand shakes and they would all deliberately refuse to shake my hand despite me offering (this has happended numerous occasions over the years). I have been to club nights and beaten up being called a fing gora, a sweat, white b**d etc. Not a nice feeling to be singled out when the people don't know a thing about you, but then the people dishing it out had probably experienced similar or worse.

The worst was the grief I would get from some old white friends from the estate who would ask why I hang around with packies. I would also get similar inferences from family, although not as blatant.

Racism is ugly full stop. Language has the capacity to hurt people no matter what the old axiom says, so we should be a bit more sensitive with what might offend. That isn't PC gone mad it's called empathy and one of the good things about being human.

hammerite - sure I thought it just meant 'white'. Not 'the white'.

Kala sounds quite cruel/crude but its not- don't forget Punjabi is quite a rougher language compared to Urdu.

Hora, you boasting that your Mrs spat in someone's face for saying the word "chinky" unravels any point you're trying to make imo.

Hora, you boasting that your Mrs spat in someone's face for saying the word "chinky" unravels any point you're trying to make imo.

Late night - central London, 3/4 blokes in a Kebab shop suddenly mrshora spits and says how ****ing dare you call me a chinky. Now I don't know what else was said but I was ready to defend her honour. The fact is his friends wants nothing to do with the dick and thought rightly so that he was bang out of order.

Late night - central London, 3/4 blokes in a Kebab shop

Amputees or just 25% shorter than average ? 🙂

or just 25% shorter than average

According to Magda in my office Pole isn't offensive to her and wouldn't be to any of her countrymen/women.

That's very nice to hear, but you should probably put it away now anyway

Growing up in a white working class environment in an industrial town, this kind of racism was all around me when I was young. It's still there in many of my parents generation and I am sure somewhere deep in my psyche it will have had an effect on me. I try bloody hard not to let it do so now and would die of shame if I did ever cause offence (am sure I have, but luckily I still have all my fingers).
Not sure what I am trying to say, just that some of us may not have had the best start in dumping all parental influence of this kind but we are trying, nonetheless, to be better than they were. So bear with us. 😀

I think often people don't realise that the terminology the use is not entirely appropriate, often brought out when they are out of their environment. Having said that, few racist actually believe they are racist, often seeing themselves as folks who aren't afraid to tell it like it is. Many think that their view is widely shared.

If someone i knew used the word 'chinky' in any sense, I'd tell them it wasn't a very nice word. Perhaps it's not as heavily loaded as 'the N word' but still. I was introduced to a fella recently who used the term 'spade' as a racial grouping, I waa slightly surprised but did not do anything, merely listened warily for any other indications of ignorance. None were forthcoming so I let it slide. I didn't find it particularly offensive, but I'm pretty sure I'll not be becoming his friend. Not so much because he was racist, more because I think he was gay.

Being British Born Chinese myself I can put my hand on my heart and say I have never been called a "Chink". Wasn't really bullied at school, just the odd chav acting hard but not because of my race. I have grown up in Surrey though and I went to a state school.
I was the only Chinese in my primary and junior school, and they were both next to council estates where the local riff-raff were from.

I've never heard anyone use the term "chinky" to describe a Chinese takeaway.

plop, how old are you?
We had a Chinese kid in my school, he was always called chink, chinky, Charlie Chan, Fu Man Chu, Chinese Detective. Even the teachers picked it up.

Was he offended? Not hugely, he didn't like it but he didn't really have many options

PlopNofear - Member
and they were both next to council estates where the local riff-raff were from.

...and a new type of discrimination (racism) appears. But this is acceptable, no?

I'm not sure "riff-raff" is a race, you know.

[url=

"blank" in one's armour...[/url]

(How DO the stupid video links work FFS!!!??)

I'm not sure "riff-raff" is a race, you know.

They're from the planet riff.

I'm not sure "riff-raff" is a race, you know.

I'm Riff-Raff on my mother's side. So I would politely ask you to refrain from such cruel taunts.

@klumpy

[img] [/img]
=

. None were forthcoming so I let it slide. I didn't find it particularly offensive, but I'm pretty sure I'll not be becoming his friend. Not so much because he was racist, more because I think he was gay.

Surely another little test here to see who's paying attention? 😕

We had a Chinese kid in my school, he was always called chink, chinky, Charlie Chan, Fu Man Chu, Chinese Detective. Even the teachers picked it up.

I worked in a factory quite a few years ago, everyone seemed to have nicknames there.

One guy, who was Chinese had the nickname Kato

It wasn't used as any kind of insult, he didn't mind the nickname, he was well liked and had no problems in that respect.

But someone in management decided that was Racist, and decided that anyone using it would earn themselves a written warning.

Oddly enough, there was someone posting on this thread earlier who has chosen Kato as his forum name, and from what he said, he sounded like he could well be of Chinese heritage ?

I got pulled up a little while ago for using the word "coloured" as it's apparently racist. Made me vexed because I used it specifically to try and avoid using any potentially derogatory language.

Then I got to thinking, you know, whilst I don't agree that country contractions are inherently racist (compare ****, Brit, Scot, Pole, Iti, etc), I'm happy to avoid using them as I understand that some people find them offensive (rightly or not). However, when we're getting into the realms of "black / brown / white / coloured" now being offensive, I really don't think the the problem here lies with the speaker. What next, differently pigmented? We're running out of words.

Fundamentally, we're heading towards a situation where words are becoming viewed as 'racist' purely because they're used to describe a demographic and racists speak the same language we do. So we start saying (for example) "coloured" to attempt to safely refer to someone non-caucasian, then the racists start using the same word, hey presto it's suddenly a 'racist' term and we've to find something else. It's a race condition we can't win unless we force racists to start speaking Esperanto or something.

Lunacy.

If you want to be as inoffensive possible just use African, Caribbean etc. Simples. At any place I've worked at we've never used the term "the black lad over there" in any conversation to describe someone we work with.....we'd use "the African lad over there" or the Caribbean lad over there". All you have to do is make an effort to find out where they are from.

Why the hell is this shite being discussed on a pushbike forum?

I'm offended.

But someone in management decided that was Racist, and decided that anyone using it would earn themselves a written warning.

Or, actually he did mind and didn't feel able to say so, so discretely complained to management.

Or, actually he did mind and didn't feel able to say so, so discretely complained to management.

I very much doubt it, I knew him fairly well and he wasn't that sort of bloke, if he didn't like it, he wasn't the sort of fella to keep quiet about it.
And when I started there, he introduced himself as Kato and said his real name wasn't easy to pronounce.

I have an Arab mate, we call him Rab. He is also a Celtic fan and a Catholic, so we sometimes call him Bobby Sandals.

At any place I've worked at we've never used the term "the black lad over there" in any conversation to describe someone we work with.....we'd use "the African lad over there" or the Caribbean lad over there". All you have to do is make an effort to find out where they are from.

but not quite enough effort to know their name? 🙄

I enjoy referring to a saffer at work as 'the African'. It drives him insane which is a constant delight to me. Mind you he's only over here because 'the blacks have ruined his home'. I think he was expecting to be welcomed into a modern version of bless this house/love thy neighbour. My favourite quote from him is one about why black people are shit at cricket - 'they can run, but they can't catch'.

but not quite enough effort to know their name?

Names aren't that useful when you are pointing someone in the right direction for the person they are looking for.

"Excuse me, can you tell me who Stephen is, I've got a package for him"

"Yes of course, it's the bloke called Stephen in that room full of people over there"

"Erm...... Ok... thanks ?"

"The one sitting down"

"The one on the end"

"The one by the water cooler"

"The one in the white shirt"

"The tall guy in the corner"

There's many other ways without trying to be so false about being PC.

One of my bestmates is called/nicknamed Bolo...

He seems to think he has a likeness to Bolo Yeung...

"The one sitting down"
"The one on the end"
"The one by the water cooler"
"The one in the white shirt"
"The tall guy in the corner"
There's many other ways without trying to be so false about being PC.

There are many ways of doing most the things.

I was just pointing out, that "not finding out someone's name" was irrelevant.

Also, saying "yes he's the black guy just down there on the right" isn't racist.

One guy, who was Chinese had the nickname Kato

As I do. It's not something I find offensive. However, I don't like being called a chinky. I had enough of that at school

As I do. It's not something I find offensive. However, I don't like being called a chinky. I had enough of that at school

This seems to have mutated somewhat though hasn't it.

It's changed a bit from someone referring to a restaurant as a chinky.

Which I presume is different isn't it ?

(I don't do either personally, but I can see a difference)

My favourite quote from him is one about why black people are shit at cricket - 'they can run, but they can't catch'.

Tell him to watch this.

http://fireinbabylon.com/mobile/

plop, how old are you?

19, so school wasn't that long ago.

INRAT but back when I was a lad in the NE we called the takeaway serving food of a chinese style the 'chinky'. Totally get that it's unacceptable now and why BUT I'm pretty certain at least a few of us who used it then without racist intent also got a few minor injuries defending our british born chinese friend when he took exception to being called a prejorative term by another group of lads. Using a word doesn't make you a racist but it might make you appear so....

Seems to be northern thing and I've used still do but only about the takeaway never a person of Chinese origin.

I struggle with long sentences but....

"the African lad over there" or the Caribbean lad over there"

FFS get it right though. If you want to see really offended then call a Caribbean an African....or vice versa.