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my lad bought a cheapo car from his mate, an 07 corsa for £200, ready for when he passes his test.
his lessons have stalled, the cars been stood on the drive for months, its started going mouldy, hes cleaned it up, ive told him time and time again to move it on and buy another when hes ready.
hes finally seen sense and sold it to another mate, on the proviso it works. aaaaaand you know whats coming next.... 😀
key in, interior lights came on, nothing from the engine. jump leads to wifes car, still nowt. ok, ill charge it for you boy. trickle charger for the day, tried again, coughed into life but sounded like a bag of shit, as though it was misfiring, and ready to stall. i wanted to try and rev it up but it would just have stalled if id put me foot down more.
red battery and orange alternator warning lights stayed on so im guessing alternator wasnt recharging it, then the battery light went off, alternator light stayed on. cough cough splutter splutter, engine cut out and wouldnt start again. felt like it just needed a good old rev up but was impossible, just wouldnt have it.
im crap with cars and so im guessing the battery wasnt getting a charge and just ran out of juice quickly again. ok, recharged it for the day, battery charger said fully charged, this is looking good, ill stick jump leads on wifes car again for maximum juice, turned the key and just nothing, no cough, just a click. interior lights are still on, but we have no splutter, no attempt at starting, its just dead.
two questions......
1. does it sound like the battery is dead, and a new one will sort everything out? or does the misfiring bag of shit the one time it started suggest more serious problems? FWIW it drove ok when he bought it 4 months or so ago.
2. what i dont understand is, why jump leads dont give you the juice from another battery. if a battery is knackered and you connect it to a good one with leads, why doesnt the good battery just become the battery for the dead car instead? why does it even matter if theres a battery in the dead car at all? why cant you just connect jump leads to the (disconnected) terminals in the dead car, and pretend thats the battery now?
do i have to physically remove bad battery and swap it for wifes, and connect terminals to get the juice and use it as part of the process of eliminaton?
thanks
All I can say if it's like a combo van good luck on getting the battery out, I ended up cutting off a bit of the scuttle work - really terrible design
Modern batteries (and by that I mean anything since late 90s) seem to have a death point where they suddenly stop holding any charge and at that point you (IME) cannot jump start through them or do anything other than replace. I've lost two or three this way on older cars.
Last one I got two dodgy starts out of it, parked overnight and it'd barely illuminate the dash in the morning.
Whether it's worth £60 of battery (guess) to try in £200 of Corsa is a question only you can answer but given comment above I'd see how easy the change looks first!
If connecting to an alternative battery check it's a compatible match within the specs of the car.
Too small a capacity is definitely an issue but too large might be in some cases (although the car may control what it draws).
When connecting jump leads especially cheaper ones it is important to connect and leave for 5 minutes or so before trying to start(leave car running) as dead battery needs some charge as all current from starting would have to come through the cheap leads.
The battery has probably been flat for so long it won't hold charge and just soaks up any voltage put across it from the jump leads. Not sure why it's not even turning over on the second try.
Petrol goes off after a few months because the volatile bits evaporate. That could be the cause of the spluttering.
Getting it running probably needs some new bits like battery, maybe plugs, bleeding the fuel system with new fuel, so unless you have somebody who will work on it free, he's better writing it off, getting what he can from webuyanycar or the like and learning the lesson.
Does the charger show the voltage from the battery? anything less than 13-oddV from a fully charged battery is bad, less than 12V is definitely dead.
I think I've got a battery tester in the garage if you're in Nottingham.
Also, he may well get more than he paid for it by slapping it on eBay with an honest description, there's a lot more than £200 value it in to someone willing to break it for parts.
+1 greybeard.
For minimum hassle to get it off your drive, I would just replace the battery rather than muck around trying to jump it. Hopefully it only has a small amount of fuel in it so you can dilute the old fuel with some new stuff.
Then persevere with trying to start it but keep the battery topped up if you've tried several times.
Also, will said mate come back moaning if it goes wrong? If so it might be better to flog on ebay so you don't feel obliged to cover any future problems.
ok thanks, seems like a comprehensive shout on the battery then, i think he'd probably say its worth trying that before scrapping.
If connecting to an alternative battery check it’s a compatible match within the specs of the car.
Too small a capacity is definitely an issue but too large might be in some cases (although the car may control what it draws).
so a 12v battery isnt a 12v battery isnt a 12v battery then.....its never straightforward is it 😀
FWIW theyre both small cars, the wifes is an 06 nissan note. where would i find out if itll be fine to hook up to a corsa?
I think I’ve got a battery tester in the garage if you’re in Nottingham.
lincoln, so not too far but still not worth a trawl over just to check the voltage, but thanks for the offer.
For minimum hassle to get it off your drive, I would just replace the battery rather than muck around trying to jump it.
yeah, think this is the way to go.
just for my curiosity, could anyone give me a laymans terms answer on my question 2 please? is it the thickness of the wire in jump leads maybe? common sense to me says that leads going from the terminals of a dead car, to a good battery elsewhere should now mean youre using that good battery, and not having to rely on the dead one any more.
thanks for your help
If your battery is ****ed the best will in the world with the best jump leads in the world won't start the car.
You can have volts at the terminals but the amps won't get there down those lines.
so many possibilities. and depending what hes sold it for depends on if its worth doing.
Selling a car to a makte means anything that goes wrong youll have that mate calling you up saying youve sold them a dud. I wouldnt do it.
A battery is going to be 70 quid + which may or may not fix it. Plus tenner of petrol and your nearly half way to the value of the car.
Sell it as knackered or scrap it imo.
When a battery is completely funked a charger may say it's full but it will not hold any charge.
When you put jump leads from a good battery to a bad battery the power between the batteries wants to equalise so the good one charges the bad one until the voltage is the same on both batteries.
(its the same if you have a torch that takes two batteries - if they die and you only replace one the power from the good one will from into the bad one one and so it won't last long)
If you have a vehicle with two batteries and one of them is dead it will bring down the other one unless they are separated.
Engines need a certain amount of voltage to run properly so, even though it started, it may not run properly unless it's getting the right volts/amps.
Chances are a new battery will sort it - but whether it's worth it is up to you (maybe replace the bad one with the one from your wifes car to test - but check radio codes etc.)
edit: I doubt it's fuel - we keep fuel in out boat over the winter and it's always fine the next spring. In the UK we only have 5% ethanol but in the US they have 10% and it's a bigger problem over there.
common sense to me says that leads going from the terminals of a dead car, to a good battery elsewhere should now mean youre using that good battery, and not having to rely on the dead one any more
The dead battery is effectively a resistor and is taking the power from the jump leads. If you had a horse pulling a cart and it died, you wouldn't couple up a fresh horse without removing the dead one, else you'd be dragging it along. Modern car electrics are so complex, however, that I wouldn't recommend removing the battery and connecting the jump leads to the terminals; you could damage the other car. Taking the battery from the other other car (make sure you have the radio code!) and swapping it would be less risky, if it fits.
I think Halfords used to do a free battery test? You could take it out and fetch it along to them. From what I understand, determining the health of a battery is actually quite complex and goes a long way beyond checking the voltage that comes out.
Generally speaking, I don't think it's all that unusual for a car to run like crap after standing for a long time, especially in the winter months. And if you can get it running, a good warmup, driving all the moisture out might do it the world of good. That's my uneducated opinion, based on experience.
Modern batteries (and by that I mean anything since late 90s) seem to have a death point where they suddenly stop holding any charge and at that point you (IME) cannot jump start through them or do anything other than replace. I’ve lost two or three this way on older cars.
This is particularly so in winter when the cold helps kill the battery off (as I found out recently)
The battery died on my 2009 Mazda 6 last spring. Was running fine then one day just wouldn't start. Tried a trickle charger but after 24 hours I was just getting clicking, it wasn't holding any charge. £100 on a new battery and 5 mins with a spanner later and it's run fine since.
Luckily it was just a simple strap holding the battery in and easy access. The wife's Peugeot 5008 battery has some sort of fuse box and wiring connected to and above the negative terminal and the back half of the battery is hidden underneath the leafscreen. That's not going to be a five minute job if it dies!
The dead battery is effectively a resistor and is taking the power from the jump leads. If you had a horse pulling a cart and it died, you wouldn’t couple up a fresh horse without removing the dead one, else you’d be dragging it along.
That is an excellent analogy.
so a 12v battery isnt a 12v battery isnt a 12v battery then
No, it's mainly about the ampere hour (Ah) capacity. As a rough rule of thumb the bigger the engine the higher the Ah needed to turn it over, plus quite a bit for a diesel because of the higher compression. If that's a diesel Corsa you've got, and a petrol Note it'll not have the grunt needed.
I gave a bloke with a 2.5l V6 petrol Alfa 156 a jump once with a 1.3 diesel Punto, absolutely pissed it, but when the Punto battery flaked out my Dad's Mazda RX8 battery wouldn't turn that.
update. bought a new battery aaaaaaaand......zilch. exactly the same. internal lights come on, dash lights up, turn the key and not a sound.
anything fairly cheap and simple i can try next?
cheers
Find the starter solenoid and give it a hard thump with something.
anything fairly cheap and simple i can try next
Have someone stand in front when you try the ignition - turn the lights on - if they dim when you turn the ignition key that can point to the solenoid being sticky
ive had a look on google but cant find an answer, where would the corsa solenoid be located and what does it look like? if i can locate it ill give it a whack....
thanks
also the headlights come on when selected, i turned the ignition and they stay bright, no dimming at all, so does that discount the solenoid now?
If it's legal to move of the drive, try a push or tow start. See if the thing runs before spending any more money.
also the headlights come on when selected, i turned the ignition and they stay bright, no dimming at all, so does that discount the solenoid now?
seems to rule out the solenoid. Makes it seems its not even trying to start rather than not having enough juice to. Its not something daft like the immobiliser being on?
Its not something daft like the immobiliser being on?
thats the sort of thing it feels like, how could i check?
Type Corsa immobiliser reset into your search engine. A specific warning light will be displayed (car with spanner in it) . If it is try getting in the car, key in ignition and press the internal central locking button so the doors lock/unlock. This should reset the ignition to the key.
Read this thread,describes the issues you are having matey
https://digital-forums.com/showthread.php/858643-Corsa-2004-Won-t-start-after-battery-disconnected
Easy checks first:
1 Do the wipers work at normal speed. If normal that will confirm the battery is good - and that you've connected it correctly.
2 Select 3rd gear and rock the car too and fro. This can act like hitting the starter motor sometimes (and a lot easier to do if you can't easily locate or access the starter). Also helps if your problem is a bad patch on the commutator.
3 I don't think the link above is your issue. Most cars will crank, but not start if there is an immobiliser fault
Hth
The above link indicates a crankshaft sensor failure. Not an immobiliser issue.
I had a failed crank sensor on my vectra. It did start eventually, but was very rough for the first minute and would not rev over 2.5k revs until the sensor was replaced. £150 at the dealers. apparently it's a common fault on Vauxhall engines of a certain vintage.
update. bought a new battery aaaaaaaand……zilch. exactly the same. internal lights come on, dash lights up, turn the key and not a sound.
Thought we'd gone from bad start to a crank no start?
The starter motor solenoid will be bolted to the top of starter motor. Will resemble a pair of SP2 batteries in size and length, with a great big fat wire attatched to one end.
The starter motor itself will be low down , mos likely front left hand side of the engine. Look for a round metal tube, about the size of a 1ltr pop bottle in diameter, maybe 30cm long.
Usually a couple of large nuts bolting it to a flange next to the gearbox end of the engine.
Try a bump start to get the thing running , if its the alarm imobiliser thingy it wont go on a bump. Might be a host of things , got any easy-start if you can get it cranking first?
If it is try getting in the car, key in ignition and press the internal central locking button so the doors lock/unlock. This should reset the ignition to the key.
nope, that not work.
1 Do the wipers work at normal speed. If normal that will confirm the battery is good – and that you’ve connected it correctly.
2 Select 3rd gear and rock the car too and fro. This can act like hitting the starter motor sometimes (and a lot easier to do if you can’t easily locate or access the starter). Also helps if your problem is a bad patch on the commutator.
3 I don’t think the link above is your issue. Most cars will crank, but not start if there is an immobiliser fault
wipers work as normal.
rocked it in 3rd gear.
i also dont think it sounds the same as the link, as in that the cars trying to start, this one isnt.
Thought we’d gone from bad start to a crank no start?
this is what puzzles me. few months ago it was running. then its been stood. then not worked so charge the battery. spluttered into life but sounded like a bag of shit, as tho it was running on full choke or somethings, and a bit of accelerator would cut it out. then it did cut out with the battery light on.
recharged battery then nothing. changed battery and nothing.
yes it 'feels like' its an immobiliser fault but surely it wouldnt have spluttered into life before if there was a fault with it?
FWIW the 'car with spanner' light is on, so's the power steering fault light but that may just be cos it hasnt started and if it did itd go out, dunno....
thanks
EDIT: cars not legal so bump starting on the road may be an issue? altho its a quiet estate road, might get away with it.... i'll try when theres a few bods around.