And so the bangernomics motor was not worth the tax for the amount I was using it and it's gone! Back to Bike, Taxi and hire cars, feels quite relaxing!! Keeps me thinking that cars are used because they are there and we feel we should to get some value from the investment. If you started from the point that owning a car was not the norm but public transport and hire cars were easy to access would you want to own one? (Live in a city, walk or cycle to work in 10 mins)
me and the wife have gone from her car and my van to nothing in the last 6 week.
she had her licence taken off her because of epilepsy starting, and i cant drive for at least 3 month because of surgery.
she uses a bus now for work, and i ride the sofa...... 😀
If you have good enough public transport, then yes. But it can fall down - depending where you live. 4 miles to town for us, 4 miles to school, town bus takes almost an hour, no school bus, wife and kids can't/won't cycle into town or school, etc etc.
Really good public transport would be quite near the top of my list of things to introduce if I were PM. Incidentally, South Wales should be getting a major PT overhaul starting soon, to which I will be looking forward greatly.
I'm currently forced not to drive and am fortunate that my wife can give me a lift. If I lived in a rideable distance to work I'd do it every day, even better if there was good public transport.I'd still have a car between the two of us, or at least intend to hire one for adventures. This is what I've done when I've lived in cities and it worked fine.
However we live a bit in the sticks and now I'm forced not to drive it's highlighted to me how poor the UK's public transport is (I'm also not allowed to ride my bike on the road). It'd take me 2 hours to go the 18 miles to work on the bus. The trains only go south, not north. I looked into going to a meeting to make life easier for my colleague. 2.5hrs in the car, 6 on the train. I think if you live outside the city, or are forced to live further from work than you'd like (which is our situation, wife works 45mins north, I work 40mins south) then living without a car is pretty tricky. It'd be a nice thing to be able to do, though.
I would do it in a flash, but Co car makes it all so easy, car hire always seems so cheap and you can pay for a lot of taxis for the cost of running a car
I like driving, I like cars so it's no from me.
I'm also not allowed to ride my bike on the road
whats wrong luke (if its not too personal)
Anyway - im also ditching my van. I'm going down the route of an electrically assisted cargo bike for journeys where i dont have the ability to get changed/showered at either end.
car hire always seems cheap - until you need to do it at short notice which sucks.
I focking hate driving.
I also hate trains.
The bus i dont mind actually.
Yep, car free here, have been for 2 years now. I said I'd try it for 2 months, it seems to have worked.
It's a slightly different state of mind to driving. I know it will take a touch longer and that I have to plan my days a little better. But that's OK. A cargo bike has also helped a lot.
We've gone from a car each for my wife and I to a car each for my wife and I, a car for our son who passed his test and a 7.5m motorhome in the past 4 weeks.
It's not made parking any easier.
Yeah, I put mine off the road cos I'm not working just now and all the bills were due
Handy to have but not essential since I live in Edinburgh.
Just need to rely on lifts to get to mountain biking places other than the Pentlands!
Though I might get the train up to Dalwhinnie some time before it gets snowy and ride around there
It's just not realistic for me to be honest. I drive 2 hours each way every week to visit my mum, it would take 5 hours+ each way on public transport.
Work would be a 19 mile each way commute, which i can manage, sort of .... but i need to be home at specific times to collect my son from school, which would mean leaving for work about 4am each day.
He does football too which is 9 miles away, which we could cycle, but wouldn't be getting home until 9pm... which is too late...
So no... i can't really do without a car.
I/we have missed the convenience of a car for the last ~5 years, mainly for trips on days off work and bulk shopping, but my finances are far better for it.
Our last car (2006-2011) typically cost me...
~£30pcm fuel
~£25pcm insurance
~£15pcm tax
~£25pcm on MOT+ repairs+ general upkeep
Sometimes I wish we had the car again, but these days, it would mean having no monthly savings and cutting down on treats like new bike bits and pub lunches.
It encouraged me to use bikes to commute the ~4.5 mile journey each way and these days, Bluebus do a £5 weekly ticket for the no.18 to commute on in bad weather or days I don't feel so good.
The city council where I live (small city, you can walk or ride everywhere, reasonable cycle routes, excellent bus/train service to other towns, HS1 to London, etc) briefly made developers build flats in the city with no parking. Result? Lots of unsold flats! All new flats now have parking again, although the city is at gridlock every rush hour so why you'd want to drive in/out of it to work I have no idea! People are just lazy & used to driving everywhere and can't see past it. The only people I see walking/cycling regularly are students/the poor/wierdos like me.If you started from the point that owning a car was not the norm but public transport and hire cars were easy to access would you want to own one? (Live in a city, walk or cycle to work in 10 mins)
Keeps me thinking that cars are used because they are there and we feel we should to get some value from the investment.
I really doubt that's the case for most people, but could be wrong.
Our car sometimes sits for days on end without moving as lots of the stuff we need can be got locally. But, I live in a village in the Highlands, being carless by choice would be just about inconceivable.
I mostly work (read stw) from home these days, so bought a small car a few years ago that is below the uk tax band, costs me £80 a year to insure and is paid off so doesnt have any ongoing costs, its quite a simple design so I service it myself and with only got 30k on the clock should last a while.
As such I don't mind it sat on the drive doing nothing 95% of the time.
If I was paying £500 a month for something I would probably try to drive it everday.
briefly made developers build flats in the city with no parking. Result? Lots of unsold flats! All new flats now have parking again,
There was a development in Sydney recently which was refused as they had no parking allocated. It was next to a station and 2 bus stops and was pre sold 100%.
A couple of times I've overtaken my house mates as I've walked in...
Last year my car died in the same week as me being made redundant, so after the month it took me to find another job, i decided to try and do the commute to my new work place by bike, i live in a rural west Norfolk village, no public transport whatsoever and it is 12 miles to the nearest shop.
I still have access to my wife's car at weekends, but so far this year i have clocked up just shy of 5900 miles, fittest i've been and saved some money, i enjoy riding in the sun along the country lanes, BUT...
I've been knocked off twice, the cost of fuelling me is almost as much as fuelling my car and in the winter i get through a chain a month!
I've got a 14 year old son who does sport on the weekend. Pretty much all I need the car for and occasionally sticking a bike in the back to go for a ride.
It surely must be a very small spectrum of people who can manage without a car.. I couldn't do half of the things I'm into with any convenience... climbing, biking, late nights at climbing walls that are usually in industrial estates away from transport ect...
Granted now I live in a town I get the train to the airport instead of driving but public transport is still pretty horrid and grimy.
I'm happy my running costs have gone from circa £700 a month to £150 though as I'm not having to commute in the car to the office... to be honest I'd pay that just to get the 2 hours of each day back!
Most people dont have cars.
"It surely must be a very small spectrum of people who can manage without a car.. I couldn't do half of the things I'm into with any convenience... climbing, biking, late nights at climbing walls that are usually in industrial estates away from transport ect...
"
Lucky you have the choice , for many folk those sort of things are out of the question never mind having a car to get there.
125cc motorbike £18 to tax, £25 to mot (less steering and drive components so much less to fail on in general, especially if you buy a Honda). £100 to insure. Extremely good fuel economy. I was commuting roughly 28 miles in to London every day and paid about £18 a week in petrol. No need for a bike test. No waiting in traffic. If you get a Honda Varadero you don't look silly either.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/xl125v-varadero/2001/
It surely must be a very small spectrum of people who can manage without a car..
I think the majority of household could reduce to one car, and many could do without. It is more a phycology choice. People choose the car for all journies out of habit. When all you have is a hammer every thing looks like a nail.
We have one van And one car. If I could get my partner to drive the van we. Could loose the car easily. Loosing the van could be done with a larger car and trailer but we have no off road parking.
[i]125cc motorbike £18 to tax, £25 to mot (less steering and drive components so much less to fail on in general, especially if you buy a Honda). £100 to insure.[/i]
Hmm, I suspect my lad would quite enjoy going to rugby on the pillion... Shame I'm too scared to ride a motorbike.
Recently done the opposite and gone from 1 car to 2 - the 1st car is starting to get long in the tooth and with 3 kids with different interests and activities typically happening at the same time it was becoming increasingly difficult for my better half and I to split ourselves three ways.
Got a second car, fitted towbar and went to the Alps with it (11 year old son cycled up Alpe d'Huez with me - proud Dad moment) Would not have taken old car there but it has been so useful finally having 2 cars. Can now get gets to football/rugby/ballet/athletics training without having to call in favours and at least I can now repay a lot of those favours with return lifts.
Managed with between us for last 16 years - I cycle to work everyday which obviously helps.
Most people dont have cars.
Most households do.
I've been carless when I was single and lived close to the center of the city. Walked, jogged, or cycled to work. Pub 3 minutes walk. Shops 2 minutes walk.
Living miles further out though it isn't so easy. 18 miles each way to work. No shower or locker facilities. 25 minutes by car. Impossible by public transport for 7am start.
Visiting son in Cambridge from Glasgow. 6 hours, any time, any day. Any luggage. Good hillwalking 45m drive away at Arrochar. Easy half day up the Cobbler and back. . Public transport - 2 buses 2.5hr each way. A long day out. Cars are great.
Sorry I should have said most households... and I do realise we are on middleclasstrackworld and not talking about poverty lines... we ride bikes worth more than most peoples cars...
However from a practical standpoint I'm obviously "privileged enough" but I really cant imagine what the lifecycle of a household without a car looks like... well I can but it's not appealing and its probably quite arduous for most too...
Part of becoming an adult was getting a driving license and the freedom of decision that brings with it - I certainly work too hard to consider wasting a big chunk of my free time on public transport.
Most households do
Of course, but even by household something like 25% don't, point being many people get by without one so perhaps we should do more for that majority of people who don't drive and the quarter of households who don't have a car.
my mum didnt drive till i was 12 and my dad worked 7 days a week 7-7 most of the year apart from the trades fortnight and christmas and the occasional sunday when there was no OT on offer.
We walked/got the bus/train everywhere. It did us no harm - as much as i moaned about it at the time.
Thankfully the wife had a similar upbringing as her mum didnt learn till she was older either.
I'm lucky enough to enjoy my ride to work, taking 35 to 40 mins each way.
When I broke my wrist I tried public transport, but this increased my journey time to 1h30m or more each way. The car took 30 mins (and was doable with my level of injury after a couple of days) and cost not that much more as I already own a car (which my wife insists I should). The bus was shockingly expensive (£6 return - more than the train, although I would accept still less than the car).
If I lived near a train station, the journey would be 45 mins or so, and I'd happily deal with that if I didn't cycle. I like having the car for long journeys, but hiring a car would be cheaper if a little less convenient.
I remember reading a Chris Boardman article about commuting, which basically stated (and figures are from memory) that 86% of commutes to work are under 5 miles, if just 10% of those journeys were made by bicycle, it would save the NHS 18.6 billion in increased health a year on average.
.
anyone i speak to about it says "i would but the roads are too dangerous"
errrr talk about self fulfilling prophecy !
they don't mean it, that is just the socially acceptable excuse.
I sincerely believe that if adequate provision was made for fast, direct, extensive and safe cycle route (free from absent minded pedestrians, dogs, and cars and wide enough to overtake slower riders with oncoming bikes - basically Dutch standards) then even in relatively hilly areas people would cycle far more. It'd cost money though, everyone's keen on it until money comes into it!
TR - whilst that was true for me as well I'd question whether the savings would ever be enough to break even, more so when you have to rely on everything you cant get being delivered (how much is your time worth? How much does delivery withon a particular window cost?).
I know, because of choices I have made, I couldnt do most of the things that keep me sane without a car. Sod trying to humph rifles and a range bag several miles uphill from the train station. And finishing a shitty shift feeling like you just want to curl up in a corner but have a 7.5 mile ride in the wind and pishing rain to look forward to? Nope, sorry, there are things I just need the car to accomplish. I wish I didn't, I wish I lived with decent piblic transport and most ammenities within a rwasonable distance but I dont so have to make do with that fact. Christ, we're driving from Largs to Reading in a couple of weeks because the cost of fuel is over a quarter of the cost of the combined train or air fares, we cant even get single mode inter city travel right so how do people expect inter modal public transport to work?
I haven't had a car for about 3 years, but I can't see going without one for much longer, it is the way everything has to be planned without one that is getting to me, especially when the weather isn't good. For instance, tonight I had intended to go to the gym after work on the way home, but I felt a bit burnt out after work so just cycled home, after sitting down and having a bite to eat I was feeling up for a workout, but cycling or catching public transport to the gym rather than driving adds a good hour onto the whole affair so I didn't go.
We have a car, a bangernomics Fiat Doblo, that we use when we have to and cram as much pottering about that [i]needs[/i] a car when we take the car out. We keep it in good order and repair it when it needs it because-
a) we have a local garage we trust
b) it's cheaper and less hassle than having to look for another (unknown) car
otherwise we'll walk or cycle to get our potterings done. We're sensible/lucky enough to work from home so we have no commute at all which has done wonders for our quality of life and mental health! Not much coming in means that we've had to cut our cloth accordingly, so although there's not much coming in there's very little going out and we have nothing on credit.
mikewsmith - Member
And so the bangernomics motor was not worth the tax for the amount I was using it and it's gone! Back to Bike, Taxi and hire cars, feels quite relaxing!! Keeps me thinking that cars are used because they are there and we feel we should to get some value from the investment. If you started from the point that owning a car was not the norm but public transport and hire cars were easy to access would you want to own one? [b](Live in a city, walk or cycle to work in 10 mins)[/b]
My bold, that pretty much sums up the reality of the situation. Those who live in cities are blessed with a variety of options which allow them the luxury of not needing to own a car.
Those who [i]don't[/i] live in cities, or large urban areas, are basically second-class citizens, because public transport is pretty much non-existent in any meaningful sense. I walk everywhere in town, and when I worked in town I rode or walked, but for any social situations, the car is essential; I could catch a train into Bath or Bristol during the day, but if I wanted to go to a gig in the evening with a mate, the situation is impossible, because he lives five miles away, with no bus service of any significance in the evenings, that would allow him to get to my house in under two hours, and the last train from Bristol is 10.32pm, utterly useless when most gigs don't finish until around 11pm, then you have to get back to the station, which may be a couple of miles away, with a bus taking anywhere up to an hour, so there's no point in even attempting it.
He's my drinking mate as well, there is no pub within four miles of his home, there's no public transport, walking eight to ten miles is out of the question, and he doesn't ride a bike.
This situation is true of most of my friends.
dunno SK - we used to get a taxi home with teh shopping from presto on a saturday.
we didnt get many other deliveries - home shopping wasnt really a "thing"
Going car-free (ownership at least) isn't difficult, it's just inconvenient and would require changes to peoples lives that they don't want to do. Simple as that really.
It's a lot easier if you start from scratch though. Live near to sustainable transport links, don't commute too far etc.
Its very easy to be car free in the Netherlands. We were. Totally impossible here for us in the UK to do the same living a very similar life.
Incidentally my wife (dutch) is on a business trip back to Holland right now and when she got there her boss (english) hired a car to get to the office and she hired a bike....different mindset.
Even in cities, transport is only good for some things
I live in North London, on the edge. Transport is amazing going in and out of Central London. If you want to travel east or west a few miles you need buses
Buses are great when you're stopping on a particular route, but if you're not then changing buses is a PITA
We're going down to 1 car very soon as we don't need 2. I ride most places locally, plus I have a motorbike. Car is needed for day to day stuff like seeing family, stuff with the kids etc.
To be fair if we didn't have a car we probably wouldn't do a lot of that stuff, and change what we do. But having no car at all would be a real pain.
(I personally don't really like buses, but I can cycle to most places so I'm generally fine)
We live in central Bristol. The public transport is barely adequate and a car-only mindset would be a recipe for frustration here (limited parking, massive traffic queues), but we walk and cycle a lot and are therefore fine.
A taste for travel and visiting family means that we still need a vehicle of some sort. I can't imagine how it would be economic or practical to get a family of four to relatives in the countryside without one - although it can of course be done.
We've had just one car until recently, but the arrival of a campervan means I've taken on my parents' 12-year-old Clio as a 2nd runabout. I'd like to just use the van, but my wife would far rather drive a 3.7m-long car around town than a 5m van.
Intresting programme on R4 about the sharing economy and the preparations car manufacturers are making for the decline of private car ownership.