[Closed] Car insurance cancellation FAIL

The thing is you've signed a contract for a years worth of insurance, im surprised they haven't charged you a cancellation fee!

I'll give you sympathy, insurance is legalised highway robbery.
Most Uk service companies trap you with some method of legally stealing your money. I think their secret motto is if we can legally take your money, we will regardless of what the morals may be.

(Sorry Al I'm trying to out cynical you)

insurance companies, estate agents, lawyers

Ha - don't get me started on insurance.

My broker recently wrote to me and told me that my Business/Social/Domestic/Pleasure policy with my current insurers was to rise from £900 to £2000 in my second year (Ford Ranger Pick-Up).

They offered an alternative at £1400. So I've done some shopping about and really struggled. Liverpool Victoria are supposed to be good for pick-up's (gleaned from other forums), but after completing 3 pages of info online, I was told that my 1 years no-claims was insufficient to allow them to quote.

NFU were supposed to be another good one for pick-up's, so sent an enquiry and my local branch called back. Apparently because it has a hardtop on the back and I fitted it myself (6 clamps), rather than a garage do it, it's classed as me modifying the vehicle - none of their insurers would even quote me.

Co-Op just didn't call back. Ended up with Adrian Flux (broker) and Highway (insurance). Ended up paying £1400, but this includes declaring the engine management chip that I declined to mention to any of the others.

I'm 39 with a clean licence BTW.

I'm with Toys19... Industry is a moral disgrace, some bad Karma needs dishing out!

Try getting the cancellation fee back - I managed to by stating that unless they could provide me with a breakdown of the cancellation costs it was in effect a penalty fee and therefore similar to bank charges and uneforcable in common law. (I know you're a laywer so will no doubt tell me I'm wrong but it did work).
Might be worth a go!
I honestlty believe that companies do the cancellation fee thing because so many people just accept it and don't question it. The thing that really me angry is that the wording normally says ' you MAY be charged a cancellation fee' which is outright deception as you always are there is no 'may' about it.

I'm thinking of that approach magowen, and it is legally correct!

My insurance company Kwik Fit-up,renewed my policy without bothering to tell me.Then demanded a cancellation fee,claiming they had sent me a letter telling me of my new(increased) pemium,which I had to apparently contact them, if I did not want to accept. Now insured elsewhere.

@ duckman To be fair you normally do need to notify your insurer if you aren't going with them for a renewal as they tend to roll it over for another year.
I know as I made that mistake once, even though I TOLD them I didn't want it automatically renewed, they did it anyway.

insurance companies, estate agents, lawyers

You forgot to mention recruitment agents.

Not necessarily bigyin- both my PL & vehicle insurers wrote to me and if I didn't respond I'd not be insured.

Ultimately it's your responsibility to check you're insured, but there seems to be no consistency. My home insurance renewed automatically year after year, but then one year just stopped - I didn't realise I wasn't insured because I didn't respond to a letter I never received.

Well, I wrote the mfkrs a mildly snippy letter and will keep you updated.

cynic-al - Member
Well, I wrote the mfrs a mildly snippy letter and will keep you updated.

The rest of us have to pay through the back teeth to have a lawyer write a mildly snippy letter. 🙄

Did you pay yourself?

A few years ago I had a policy on an old VW polo I bought to use until my new car was delivered. After one month I called them to change my car to a ferrari 612 scaglietti and add my younger brother (motor trade worker with provisional license) to the policy. They could no longer provide me with cover so refunded full premium minus 30 days pro rata cover already used. No penalty to pay. Just a thought.

I'll give you sympathy, insurance is legalised highway robbery

We took out a temporary 7day insurance policy for mrshora's car.

They took out another 7 days (As we hadn't advised them to cancel) then added on a cancellation fee.

WTF- it was specialist 'one off' temporary insurance.

Hora - exactly. Bloody legalised theft. Scum.

toys19 get back to that FEA/abacus/napkin!

These creatures are the enemies of humanity, Bankers, insurers, arms dealers, the pharmacuetical companies the deal drugs all over the world.

They all have the same short sighted, idiotic philosophy, they all want power and control but can't see the damage that it is doing.

They've collapsed the entire global economy at a time when the climate is obviously changing and there is a real possibility of us facing a global pandemic of a deadly virulent diesease, which the last time it surfaced killed off a third of europes population.

All are simply a symptom of capitalism and the deranged lunatics it breeds, the bottom line is, they put personal gain over the development and evolution of our species, they have lead us to a very dangerous place as a species and that makes them the enemies of us all.

Me and you Al, what say we track them down and hit them with shite bombs. See how the assholes, like having some in their lives!

Kaesae you forgot lawyers!!!

AL, I'm on it.

Amendment fees. That's what really p*sses me off. I've just switched car insurers and the new one came it at a reasonable price so I bought it. Then they produced a little document I hadn't seen during the online process stating the £15 charge per amendment. I've argued with insurers before on this amendment fee; surely the point of the 'up-front' quote I get on the t'internet accounts for admin fees to do stuff like amendments??

I'm 39 with a clean licence BTW.

Insurance companies all need to die horribly in a terrible accident. We had this last month

"Your indemnity insurance is going up i'm afraid"
"how much"
"from $3200 to $12,400"
"why?"
"because the risk profile has changed"
"how"
"because the risk profile has changed"
"how exactly"
"because the risk profile has changed"
"how can it have changed when we are doing what we have always done"
"because the risk profile has changed"
"how can you justify such an increase without even knowing what we actually do"
"because the risk profile has changed and your excess is now $80,000"
"thanks, it used to be $10,000 didn't it"

and so on. Nice, 7 years we worked with them and they did this. They honestly could not explain to me what had changed other than they felt they could get more money from us. I got it from another company who were delighted to work with us for the same price as the old cover. Bizarre.

A man phones his lawyer.
"How much would you charge to answer three questions?"
"£1,000. Plus VAT."
"That's a bit expensive isn't it?"
"I suppose that to some people it may appear to be a little bit pricey. Anyway, what was your third question?"

How much was your letter by the way?

Unfortunately "relationship" means **** all unless you are a UK wide business with probbers £100Ks of business, these guys are that big.

Lawyers and judges are scum who make money from other peoples suffering, depending on the kind of law they practice and what they do of course. What kind of law do you practice and what exactly do you do? are you sure you're a lawyer?

Can you post up a photo of your cape?

From the perspective of a guy who works in the pricing department of a motor insurer:

The UK motor insurance market, as a whole, hasn't had a profitable year since the 1990s. This is for 2 main reasons:

- It is pretty darn close to what economists would call a "perfect market". The product is pretty similar across all suppliers, and price comparison sites mean that the buyer can instantly compare prices across the whole market. Thus, if an insurer wants to sell any insurance, they have got to be among the cheapest.

The thing about insurance is that unlike anything else in the world (that I can think of), the supplier does not know what the product will cost them before they sell it. So they have to guess, then add a margin to make profit. Their guess might be too high, or might be too low. But on a price comparison site, the customer buys the cheapest of, say, 20 independent guesses, and that guess will probably have underestimated the risk. Its called the winner's curse.

The other reason is that while the number of crashes has gone down, the safety of cars has improved and seatbelts are being worn more often, the number of people claiming from insurance companies for personal injuries has shot up.

Why? Because of no-win-no-fee personal injury claims becoming an opportunistic, consumer driven industry. Look here if you need the evidence: http://comparecompensationclaims.com/

Whiplash has no verifiable symptoms, so anyone who has had a slight knock can claim. A car park bump that would have cost an insurer £100 a few years ago often now involves every person involved claiming a few grand for soft tissue injuries.

And don't get me started on the fraud cases we are seeing during the recession.

Insurance premiums have got out of hand, but don't blame the insurers - they are losing shedloads of money too. I think that reform of compensation laws is the answer.

but this includes declaring the engine management chip that I declined to mention to any of the others.

So you were trying to commit insurance fraud, yet you're complaining about the insurance companies morals/ practices/ guidelines etc?

The thing about insurance is that unlike anything else in the world (that I can think of), the supplier does not know what the product will cost them before they sell it. So they have to guess, then add a margin to make profit. Their guess might be too high, or might be too low. But on a price comparison site, the customer buys the cheapest of, say, 20 independent guesses, and that guess will probably have underestimated the risk. Its called the winner's curse.

Surely it's

Total claims cost divided by number of claims = Starting base rate

then actuarial derived factors to adjust the risk based on age, location, performance etc, then divide through by the TLR to get the premium? It's not that difficult!

This caught my eye too

The UK motor insurance market, as a whole, hasn't had a profitable year since the 1990s

Ouch. Speaking as the European head of underwriting for one of the oldest insurance companies in the world, I'd be out on my ear if I didn't turn a profit every year, never mind not running profitably since the end of the last century!

"Hi i`d like fully comp insurance for a so & so big bike, i live in Inverness (a city apparently) and ive been riding for 2 years.Ive been driving for 17 years and have NEVER made a claim.. what can you do for me?"

It came out about £180 quid this year. I got 3 points and i called them to let them know, so they put it up to about £200.

I think the sooner people quit claiming for anything and everything they can get their mitts on in the insurance world ..the better ;OP

Lots of good points made.

I do a fair bit of work for no-win-no-fee lawyers. Invariably, the people whose injuries I photograph are; a) embarassed about claiming, b) indignant about what has happened to them and c) looking for a payout.

Given that my business insurance is almost double my car insurance, I'm bound to fall on the side of those arguing for a reduction in the number of 'whiplash' claims.

Ones' neck may hurt for a week or two - it is [i]not[/i] worth £3000. You will [i]not[/i] have problems in back body when you reach the age of 72 as a result of said injury.

I agree entirely with the post above that legislation is badly needed to stop whimsical claims. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea how this aim maight be achieved. Answers on a postcard please.

Intrreing points guys.

K I act for professional indemnity insurers, so if an accountant/insurance broker etc ****s up and their client sues them then I defend the claim. So on the one hand I am acting for the man, often against the "innocent" wee guy. On the other hand I am fighting spurious claims, keeping premiums down and just a part of our adversarial legal system.

I do wonder if I'd feel better about my work if I was a social worker or whatever. I did a ton of voluntary work iand jobs I had a greater belief in in the past, and I am not convinced. My bosses were often still assholes (perhaps not quite so self serving and conniving).

I do wonder if I'd feel better about my work if I was a social worker or whatever.

Al, with statements like that I think you have finally morphed into TJ.

Underneath my facade is a frustrated hippy 😀

Anyway what about those calculations? 😉

Surely it's

Total claims cost divided by number of claims = Starting base rate

then actuarial derived factors to adjust the risk based on age, location, performance etc, then divide through by the TLR to get the premium? It's not that difficult!

Yep, thats it in principle, but unfortunately it is quite difficult! We need separate models for different types of claims (eg. the value of a car does not affect the likely severity of a third party injury claim, but does affect the size of accidental damage claims). And we need to predict what trends will happen over time (eg. injury claim frequency is always growing, but how much?).

Then we are at the mercy of quirks in our past data. Maybe all of the 26 year old drivers we have insured in the past have just been plain lucky, and we have massively underestimated the risk they pose.

petrieboy - Member
A few years ago I had a policy on an old VW polo I bought to use until my new car was delivered. After one month I called them to change my car to a ferrari 612 scaglietti and add my younger brother (motor trade worker with provisional license) to the policy. They could no longer provide me with cover so refunded full premium minus 30 days pro rata cover already used. No penalty to pay. Just a thought.

Now that's ingenuity.

A lot of good arguments, here's mine. If capitalism worked we wouldn't be up sh1t creak as a species.

While people go on about this policy and that legislation, the way of life for the average person in this country sucks, which is of course why we have so much crime and so many deaths due to stress.

Ever heard the saying Rip Off Britain, banking, insurance, the judicial system, they are all fundamentally flawed. Collecting money and buying a load of sh1te with it, isn't a logical course of action.

No race can afford to be complacent, humanity needs to focus on it's development and evolution, anything else simply makes it less likely we will survive as a species and brings us closer to our extinction.

Don't worry about the universe and all the threats it represent, just turn on the TV or your computer any screen will do 😉 , distract yourselves for a while and it wall all go away 😯

kaesae - Member
A lot of good arguments, here's mine. If capitalism worked we wouldn't be up sh1t creak as a species.

While people go on about this policy and that legislation, the way of life for the average person in this country sucks, which is of course why we have so much crime and so many deaths due to stress.

Ever heard the saying Rip Off Britain, banking, insurance, the judicial system, they are all fundamentally flawed. Collecting money and buying a load of sh1te with it, isn't a logical course of action.

Interesting point of view. Can you tell me another place in the world, throughout any of human history, in which you would rather have lived? Capitalist, communist, dictatorial, whatever...

We have guaranteed medical care - not perfect, but better than ever before. We have social security that while not providing huge wealth will keep us alive if we cant find a job. Thanks to recent medical & scientific advances, we get to live twice as long as out great great great uncleses and auntses. The huge amounts we have to pay to insure our privately owned cars is one of the major things we find to worry ourselves about.

The massive population explosions in Africa & Asia are a cause for concern. Nuclear war is a cause for concern. I dont see how capitalism is bringing us closer to extinction.

I think we are doing alright in rip-off Britain thanks very much.

if an insurer wants to sell any insurance, they have got to be among the cheapest.

... or offer a value added service. I'd pay for that. Breakdown cover, legal cover, contents cover; or, y'know, honesty, no hidden fees for cancellations and amendments, actually paying out when you claim, not invalidating your insurance on a whim because you've got the wrong air freshener in your car, and not treating you like a criminal by default.

don't blame the insurers - they are losing shedloads of money too.

Good.

I think that reform of compensation laws is the answer.

If people are claiming more now because they're more aware of their rights (be that because of ambulance chasers or whatever), surely that's a good thing? If people are making fraudulent claims, however, then that absolutely needs addressing. No arguments here on that.

fueled +1
kasae -1

kaesae - Member
A lot of good arguments, here's mine. If capitalism worked we wouldn't be up sh1t creak as a species.

Do you think that without this very imperfect capitalist society, you'd be able to waste time arguing on th internet, on your expensive computer?

While people go on about this policy and that legislation, the way of life for the average person in this country sucks, which is of course why we have so much crime and so many deaths due to stress.

Meanwhile back in the real world, life expectancy in the west is higher than it has ever been.

No race can afford to be complacent, humanity needs to focus on it's development and evolution, anything else simply makes it less likely we will survive as a species and brings us closer to our extinction.

So let's do something positive. What do you suggest? Oh:

Don't worry about the universe and all the threats it represent, just turn on the TV or your computer any screen will do , distract yourselves for a while and it wall all go away

There we go then..

I just cancelled a Classic policy which cost £257 (inc. breakdown cover) after 2.5 months...guess what I have been refunded?

£46.85!

Hardly worth bothering, that's the premium (£100) pro-rated to 9.5 months and subrtacting a £30 cancellation fee!

something like that, mines classic insurance as well, about £260

£15 valuation fee for someoen to have a look at some photos and pick a figure otuof the air (because the parkers guide wont cover it)
£20 breakdown
£20 legal
£vat
£other taxes
£brokers fee

Then theres the actual 'premium'

Which makes sense form a refund POV, they dont do any less work so their fees obviously aren't refundable, the other add ons probably aren't refundable by whoever bills for those, so the only thing thats refundable is the underwriters premium!

An aleternate point of view from the "poor insurers shafted by ambulance chasers" explanation - the insurers are responsible for it!! I had a bump before Christmas, woman sideswiped me on the motorway. Could have been serious but luckily it was just lots of superficial damage to my car (hers was torn to pieces)
Anyway, insured through my bank (so not some lowest possible quote cheapo firm) so called them to sort it out. New claims line went through to a firm of ambulance chasers purporting to be the "legal protection people".
Told them from the off that the accident was like driving into a sponge, I was not injured and had no intention of making a spurious injury claim. Then followed 3 days of them calling me every 2 hours to ask if I was hurt yet and also calls from some company that insisted I needed an "equivalent executive model" for the duration (I drive an elderly diesel estate ffs)
When I was finally able to get a number for the underwriter to get the PI guys to leave me alone they were not at all helpful.
Eventually spoke to third parties insurer directly and explained I wanted to to play with a straight bat but expected a low hassle experience. They picked the car up next day, left a perfectly adequate courtesy car and delivered a gleaming better than before car within a couple of weeks.
Long and the short of it is it would have been pretty easy for someone to take the easy path and end up making a 10k+ claim for what was a simple bump. Presumably the insurer earns refferal form all the bloodsuckers? Assume other insurers are set up the same way

/

The amusement I get from listening to individuals who's intellects are intact, but their ability to apply logic and reason to any given subject, argument or problem due to suffering from delusional retardation, never ceases.

If maximum input, minimum output makes sense to anyone, it definately isn't me!

All of you that agree with capitalism, good luck with that, if arms dealing and war mongering are a good idea, if all of the suffering and heartache in the world caused by capitalism are fine with you, as long as you get a computer and other cool toys and to run the ratrace.

Heartless, cruel and brutal that's all capitalism is, anyone that says it's fine with them, what is wrong with you?

The amusement I get from listening to individuals who's intellects are intact, but their ability to apply logic and reason to any given subject, argument or problem due to suffering from delusional retardation, never ceases.

I also derive great amusement from feeling superior to others. But I do try to engage with them, ask them questions, and see if I can learn from their ideas, rather than dismiss them as delusional retards.

petrieboy - Thats cheeky! Not heard of that before. Was it the actual insurer who put you through to the personal injury lawyer, or your bank / the broker? (often claims are initially reported to a broker who will only report to the insurer every month or so).

Can see that a ploy like that would be profitable though - good commission to be made from referring injury claims.

Sounds like some people have had some awful service from their insurance companies so perhaps it would benefit everyone else if those particular companies went out of business. But ultimately the comments of Fueled paint a good picture of the story.

Insurance companies get shafted often enough themselves too. Say someone had a policy with Insurer A, and at the end of the year decided not to renew, but instead elected to drive uninsured for the next year. If they cause an accident, who pays for it? That'll be their most recent insurer.

Similarly if the books show a 19 year old with a clean license driving a 1-litre Corsa, who has an accident and then it emerges the car actually has a far bigger engine and the driver has 3 previous convictions etc. The insurer is within their rights to repudiate the claim since they wouldn't have covered the risk anyway, but this only applies to the First Party element. So they'll save a few grand by not paying for the policy holders car, but will still be liable for any 3rd party damage or injury. This could easily run into the tens of millions in periodic payment orders if, for example, the driver had seriously injured several children in a car.

The situation isn't going to get better without some major changes in law.
Firstly there needs to be less lawyer involvment
in the claims process. I'm not sure of the details, but Scotland has a slightly different system which makes claims farming illegal and you might happen to notice that everywhere in Scotland - even inner city Glasgow - is most likely cheaper than a lot of English towns.

Secondly driving uninsured needs to carry a much heavier penalty. Isn't the fine currently around £200? If insurance would cost you £3000, and getting caught only costs £200 [b]IF[/b] you get caught, is it any wonder so many people choose not to?

Fueled - the claims line printed on my insurance handbook is actually the number for the PI firm. I had to push them
To get them to give me the number for the underwriter. Absolute crooks!! One set of them trying to get me to say I had a sore neck and another set trying to deliver a new mercedes within 4 hours. Not one of them actually interested in the accident or what damage was actually sustained!!

Ooh back to the OP...I got £30 more back as a goodwill gesture as a result of my whinging letter.

*punches air*

Fueled - Member
From the perspective of a guy who works in the pricing department of a motor insurer:

The UK motor insurance market, as a whole, hasn't had a profitable year since the 1990s. This is for 2 main reasons:

So basically insurers are just misunderstood and the good guys. I'm sure I heard a bunch of people saying something similar not that long ago, who was it again?

Aah yes, the bankers!

So basically insurers are just misunderstood and the good guys. I'm sure I heard a bunch of people saying something similar not that long ago, who was it again?

Aah yes, the bankers!

The whole sob story about "just trying to make some money by providing a service in a very competitive free market" is indeed complete BS.

Were all the same, us financial services people.

What we really could do with though, is more people to complain bitterly and ungratefully about the state of the world while offering up no remotely worthwhile suggestions as to how it could be made better in their eyes.