We got a letter home yesterday reminding us that because some children's parents/guardians have refused permission for their children to be photographed, no-one is allowed to take any photographs of any of the events with the children in.
This seems a little unfair on those of us that like to send photos / small videos of our kids in things at school to distant grand parents.
We also run the risk of losing a chunk of social history (OK, this may be a little over dramatic).
My take on it is that it's a schoolrule, not legislated against and I'll take my chance with getting caught.
What other options are there? Excluding kids without the relevant permissions from plays / sports days etc.
It's not quite elf and safety gone mad, but is it on the same spectrum?
Indignant from Perthshire
[i]It's not quite elf and safety gone mad, but is it on the same spectrum?[/i]
Yes, it is. It's pathetic.
Take a phone and take pics with that.
The data protection act specifically excludes private/family material from the act
Myth – “The Data Protection Act stops parents from taking photos in schools”.
Reality - Photographs taken purely for personal use are exempt from the
Data Protection Act. This means that parents, friends and family members
can take photographs for the family album of their children and friends
participating in school activities and can film events at school. The Data Protection Act does apply where photographs are taken for official use by schools and colleges, such as for identity passes, and these images are stored with personal details such as names. Where the Act does apply, it will usually be enough for the photographer to ask for permission to ensure compliance with the Act. The Information Commissioner’s Office has issued practical guidance on this subject.
Basically you are photographing your kids not theirs
Have fun.......I did 😉
Does your school use whizzkids or learning logic websites?? Our son's teacher puts loads of photos of him on that, we don't feel the need to take any more.
At school plays they did ask that you only take photos of your child, don't include any other children in the photo.
If the school sports day is in a local park then they can't stop you taking pictures (although if they called the police you might be asked to stop to prevent any problems).
In a private place (at the school, for example) they can stop you taking any pictures.
In these days of increasingly sophisticated facial recognition software I can understand why some people might not want their or their children's faces in the 'public domain' any more than they have to.
Yep, it's totally ridiculous.
I bet no-one has even requested it, they are just saying that to protect themselves in the event of some sort of paedo-geddon happening at the school.
If you like, I could send you some photos of kids sports days from my private collection
At a school my wife worked at, they sent out a similar letter. The reason behind it was one of the children had some sort of protection order on them.
They should just ask the child to wear a black rectangle over their eyes 🙂
Biritish Cycling and CTC eventy entry forms used to say something like "the event takes place in a public place. If you don't want your child photographed, don't enter them in the event".
I'm aware of a school where a parent and her children had been the subject of physical violence at the hands of an estranged father and there was a threat of abduction of the children to another country.
The father had previously traced them by having a vague idea of which city they were in and combing the internet for pictures of events at local schools and they'd had to move.
It may sound harsh but sometimes schools have these rules for a good reason.
Yes, he could have just sat outside a different school every day until he saw them but he could cover a lot more ground from his house.
school being silly. The correct approach is to permit photos for personal use but request that care is taking when publishing online etc
We have some children (at our school) for family reasons must not have their photos taken and published so event photographers are not permitted to take shots of everyone and put them online, but they can publish permitted individual's pics. Same goes for the rugby club.
Id just write back to the school explaining that their approach is incorrect and that you will be taking personal photos of the event.
In a private place (at the school, for example) they can stop you taking any pictures.
Untrue.
In reality, apart from a very few government/military locations, and inside court buildings, taking photographs is not, in itself, illegal, regardless of any conditions imposed by landowners/managers/event organisers. The only power they have is to ask you to leave according to the Criminal Justice Act regarding trespassing. And the only persons who have any legal right to seize photographic equipment, are the police, under such laws as the Anti-terrorism Act.
So ultimately, the school can't really stop you taking pictures at all. And if certan parents don't want their kids being photographed, due to their own ignorant paranoia (what do they do in places such as shopping centres which have loads of cctv??), then maybe they shouldn't send their kids to the sportsday. Easier for all, that way.
I'm aware of a school where a parent and her children had been the subject of physical violence at the hands of an estranged father and there was a threat of abduction of the children to another country.The father had previously traced them by having a vague idea of which city they were in and combing the internet for pictures of events at local schools and they'd had to move.
It may sound harsh but sometimes schools have these rules for a good reason.
Yes, he could have just sat outside a different school every day until he saw them but he could cover a lot more ground from his house.
I'm sorry but that just sounds like bullshit.
here's one - what about teachers not being allowed to apply suncream to children during sports day/ outings?
There are no restrictions at our daughters primary school. The only thing they ask is for you not to post pictures on social media if there are other children in them.
what about teachers not being allowed to apply suncream to children during sports day/ outings?
written permission to do so goes on file at beginning of year.
[i]I'm sorry but that just sounds like bullshit. [/i]
fair enough, it doesn't mean it's not true though.
We discussed this very thing at our school last week (I'm a governor) and although we have a policy to ensure safe use of images and parents sign a consent. There is very little, if nothing, legally that the school can do to enforce parents taking pictures of their children in school shows, sports events etc. The caveat is that they shouldn't be used on social media.
[i]It may sound harsh but sometimes schools have these rules for a good reason.[/i]
Nah.
I take pics of my son's football - at one away fixture (in the nice scummy part of town I grew up in!) a woman had a (long, drawn out, until I told her to shut up) moan at me "Some of these kids may be on a court order". I don't even know what that means.
I assured her the photos were only shared with the football parents.
Dress up as a school and get a long length lens? Film the whole event by drone?
[i]Dress up as a school [/i]
You'd never get away with it! 😆
I'm aware of a school where a parent and her children had been the subject of physical violence at the hands of an estranged father and there was a threat of abduction of the children to another country.
precisely. The difference between now and years gone by is pretty much the only reason many people take photos, and the only thing they do with them, is publish them online. They maybe even put them online unwittingly as many phone and photo management apps automatically upload images. Lots of people have very valid reason to not to want to have that happen.
If someone in the school has asked that photos aren't taken its quite possible they have a really, really good reason for making that request. Is it enforceable? No. Is it polite to acknowledge their request? Very.
Some peoples lives are complicated but they have to do the best to ensure kids live a simple one so its much happier solution that children participate fully in school than to exclude them so other parents can take some trivial snaps.
OP Just stand there like a japanese tourist with the biggest camera and lens you can get taking as many photos as you can.
our kids school were always happy for photos but requested they were not shared on social media. This seemed fair enough. Then it changed and we were asked not to take photos at the nativity play. We know there is an adopted kid in the class and assumed it was to do with his background. School were happy to let us assume this (and hinted much the same) then they published photos from the play in the local paper! We now ignore the school staff and just take photos as we please.
The school should hire a photographer then, and distribute suitable photos to parents
Part of my work involves sometimes taking photos of an event where 'service users' include people with learning difficulties and/or physical disabilities. I need to get consent from all those who may be included in any images, as the images may be used in a 'comercial' context to promote the service. One major issue is that of consent, as certainly children and some vulrnerable adults are not/may not be in a position to do so, thus requiring either a parent or suitable carer/guardian to do so. This sin't always possible. Legally, I can still take photos, but cannot legally 'publish' them. It can be a right headache. But of course, the needs and wishes of the serice users must be respected at al times. And in this context, this is perfectly understandable.
If someone in the school has asked that photos aren't taken its quite possible they have a really, really good reason for making that request. Is it enforceable? No. Is it polite to acknowledge their request? Very.
I'd be asking for their reasons to be given, in full and with consideration to all those who want to take 'trivial' snaps. Should thir reasons not also be considered and respected?
I have to say, the most pleasurable experiences I had in the audience of school productions were the ones where parents were asked not to video/take pictures and respected the schools request.
There's too many people who lose all sense of how their behaviour might be affecting other people if they're watching the event through a lens.
Is it enforceable? No. Is it polite to acknowledge their request? Very.
is it reasonable for them to ask?
no
wwaswas - Member
I have to say, the most pleasurable experiences I had in the audience of school productions were the ones where parents were asked not to video/take pictures and respected the schools request.There's too many people who lose all sense of how their behaviour might be affecting other people if they're watching the event through a lens.
I understand and agree mostly, but it shouldn't preclude the option to take a group photo at the end - like they used to organise, or video a specific song or part that your child is in.
I've emailed the head asking for clarity.
It may sound harsh but sometimes schools have these rules for a good reason.Nah.
What they could never ever have a good reason?
How can you claim this without complete knowledge ?
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Some kids can't have photos taken due to fostering issues or other legal issues that would put them at risk if it was found out where they were which is possibly why the school have taken that approach.
Shouldn't be an issue so long as you're not putting the kids pics on facebook or anywhere public.
Some kids can't have photos taken due to fostering issues or other legal issues that would put them at risk if it was found out where they were
Is it possible to get any clarification on this? In this particualr context, I assume we're talkingabout a 'normal' school rather than a special facility/secure unit type place, and I'm struggling to see why 'enforcing' a no-photography 'rule' (which in itself would, I imagine, be legally impossible) would make any difference anyway.
Hving needed to become reasonably knowledgable about laws surrounding photography, I'm interested in reading any explanation for such rules. Are we talking about actual laws here, or just schools' requests?
[i]we're talkingabout a 'normal' school[/i]
Foster children do go to 'normal' schools you know!
They're not deranged pyschopaths who have to be locked up for the good of society, just children who's parents couldn't cope on the whole.
Foster children do go to 'normal' schools you know!
I know. I was refering to the 'other legal issues' bit. I'm sorry if that came across as rude/offensive.
As far as I know, places such as special educational facilities and secure childrens' units are covered by the Data Protection Act, and as such photography can be legaly restricted in such environments. But in a 'normal' (for want of a better word) school, this act doesn't apply to an event such as a sports day, so I'm wondering what, if an, legal restrictions may possibly be in place to protect such children as mentioned above. The school/carer/guardian has a legal duty to protect the interests of the individual child, and whilst I can see this may sometimes conflict with the legal rights of others to photograph events/people/places, I am interested in how certain restrictions could be legally applied.
Our school lets you take photos if no other parents object, which they never do.
The only rule they try to be strict about is that you must not share any images of other peoples kids without their parents permission.
I work with some of the more downtrodden members of society, MrsMC works in child protection. We think it is quite important that we control how photos of us and our kids get circulated in this digital age, just in case someone happens to know someone who might want to make mischief.
I know. I was refering to the 'other legal issues' bit.
No idea if it's law or not but the rules are typically in place due to a police/court/child care order on the child to protect them from something in their past.
I'd question whether it was really 'some parents' or just the school covering their own backs/'worrying'.We got a letter home yesterday reminding us that because some children's parents/guardians have refused permission for their children to be photographed
Our Nursery used to have a website for parents only - every day they'd load up 'what they've been doing'. Some of our best/fondest photos are of hora jnr pulling faces/doing silly stuff etc etc etc there.
That was stopped because a parent actually did complain that they didnt want their child 'on a website' or even indirectly.
I kicked off- pointed out theres bloody google, kids catalogues etc etc etc if you wanted innocent snaps like that FFS.
There really are some idiots in this world. Imagine, growing up our children will look back and say 'why is it only me in the pics Daddy, where are my friends'?
As MrCash said above, there are certain issues with fostering and adoption that do come up.
We have adopted and ask school and nursery not to use our child's image in anything public facing due to risks from the parents,
So I can understand, and besides go and enjoy the event without being stuck behind a screen
As a couple are now pointing out, it is usually [b]not[/b] to do with 'elf n safety gorn mad, guvnor.
It can regularly be issues of children in care, fostered, adopted or in protection. This I respect as a reason, and can be more common than you think.
The balanced view is to plead not use of online, social media or print media for the pics.
Weeks ago our lad won player of the week for his local (great) youth football club. They asked permission to take his pic/advertise it on their site as its a weekly thing, took his pic.....its still up there even though 4 other children have won it since.
Andyfla - how the devil are you? I'd suggest we meet up for a ride and a chat but not sure when I'm next free.
Cash - awfully well, come and join the saturday morning ride - gently potter round derbyshire with a cake stop in Crich - on top of your favourite hill !
Shouldn't you be saving the downtrodden rather than commenting on here ?
The balanced view is to plead not use of online, social media or print media for the pics.
This makes more sense than the blanket ban IMHO and is the line I shall be pursuing.
we can take all the pictures we want, but are reminded that as some parents don't want their kids pictures published, don't put them on the internet etc.
works well for us.
Andyfla - single parent this weekend, will get in touch about another time. Which cafe though? The Loaf or the Tea Rooms? Never been in either, strangely.
Apologies for hijack
Cash - not sure tbh, the one next to the tramway museum, not bad at all
My son plays with a lovely little girl on our street. she is fostered and from a very "difficult" background we and every one else know not to put her or her carers at risk by taking photos. Seems perfectly sensible to me . We miss out on an occasional image but she gets a safe and secure home and to play in a "normal" world.
No matter what your intentions in the digital age once taken what happens to an image cannot be controlled.
Last place I taught, and I think it's quite widespread, sent out a letter saying kids may be photographed in activities by the school, or parents if this was not ok they had to opt out. Two parents took this option. Made events with parents a pita but if teachers were taking photos the kids were asked to step out the frame. One kid had a no photos under any circumstances caveat, as he was a kidnap threat. Was a dozen or so years ago and there were Yugoslavian connections.
photography can be legaly restricted in such environments. But in a 'normal' (for want of a better word) school, this act doesn't apply
what does 'legal' have to do with it? Isn't it sufficient for someone to make a polite request and for that request to be politely granted?
I thought the point of send your kids to school was the hope they might leave school as better, kinder, more capable adults. Its difficult for that to happen if the example children's parents set it to treat simple requests with smart-arsery, distain and disobedience.
I have to say, the most pleasurable experiences I had in the audience of school productions were the ones where parents were asked not to video/take pictures and respected the schools request.
+1 I was lucky enough for my kids to be a school just before the digital age so to speak so the issue never really came up, apart from end of year photos I think I have just one photo from sports day, don't think mine or my kids lives are any poorer for it.
My daughters school took the opposite approach and said you could take photographs if you wanted and if you didn't want your kid to be photographed then they could sit in the classroom.
Proper made up with their approach.
No internet posting of any photos though.
I was once taking pictures of the flyball team in Heaton Park (public park) with the the clubs permission when one woman said she did not want me to take pictures of her dog as it was like taking pictures of kids! 😯
I kid you not! I told her as we were in a public park (and so public space) I could take photos of whatever I wanted. She then stood in front of me while all the other members of the team did there stuff with their dogs.
It was an intresting conversation i had with the club memeber who had give me the orginal concent to take the photos when she did not get any for the clubs web site. FFS
There is no way I'd not take pictures and videos of my kids in stuff. If someone wants to complain about that to me so be it, sue me if you like. We used to have to sign waivers and show ID to take pictures of the kids at swimming events and I understand that but there is no way I'd miss the opportunity to have a few memories and to share with grandparents etc.
Lots of indignant outrage, thought I'd wandered into the Daily Wail pages...
... So, maybe there isn't much the school [i]can[/i] do, apart from to politely ask
But perhaps your conscience should wonder whether your irresponsible actions have resulted in a LAC being turned into a human golf club - perhaps years after being taken away from sadistic biological parents
My kids school lets you take pictures of the Xmas play and sports day as long as nothing goes on social media. If they do there will be an outright ban. It seems to be working so far.
rkk01 - Member
Lots of indignant outrage, thought I'd wandered into the Daily Wail pages...... So, maybe there isn't much the school can do, apart from to politely ask
But perhaps your conscience should wonder whether your irresponsible actions have resulted in a LAC being turned into a human golf club - perhaps years after being taken away from sadistic biological parents
Oh, the ironing...
Oh, the ironing...
Sorry, that's lost on me - would you card to explain?
Whats wrong with just being a nice person and doing as you are asked?
Oh yeah, Britain in the 21st century.
I can't think of a school that likes these things (only taught as supply in 63) but there will often be something that makes it happen. I know of several kids who cannot be photoed for a reason barely different from the case above. Stupid nanny state but that's it.
Whats wrong with just being a nice person and doing as you are asked?
What's wrong with the OP taking a few pictures of his kids at their play/spots day? It's not against the law, as we've already ascertined.
Ultimately, the school/carers/guardians have a duty of care to the children they are charged with looking after. If there really is an issue with a child's identity being protected, then it's the duty of those agencies to ensure they are not photographed in such a way as to compromise their safety. It has nothing to do with any other parents; it's just easier for the school to impose 'rules' to save themselves the hassle.
Personally, I'm more concerned with the insidious creeping malaise of social paranoia; can't do this, mustn't do that, that's dangerous, etc. Banning parents from taking pics of their kids at school events is just another example of how we increasingly pander to such paranoia, whilst reality and facts are ignored. Is there an increase in child abuse because some parents take a few pics at a sports day? We need to get a grip and stop being so flipping edgy and twitchy.
It's not quite elf and safety gone mad, but is it on the same spectrum?
I'm normally Mr Haveyouriskassessedit but that sounds like knee jerk bollocks to me.
At HTN we were asked by BC not to take or publish any pictures from the junior race. It wasn't an issue as they were all butt-ugly.
My kids school lets you take pictures of the Xmas play and sports day as long as nothing goes on social media. If they do there will be an outright ban. It seems to be working so far.
This sounds like a decent halfway house.
Whats wrong with just being a nice person and doing as you are asked?
Nothing, but it works both ways. This particular head has form for being a lazy manager who takes the path of least resistance for her irrespective of the wishes of the majority.
Nothing, but it works both ways.
Like they organise a sports day invite parents along - you don't take pictures as per their request
Nobody is concerned about CCTV coverage...no?...no?....carry on... 😀
The photos that make it to social media will be the only ones to exist for a while. The rest will be lost after about 5 years or the next mobile phone upgrade. Kids photos these days don't last very long.
Stoffel speaks the truth -Social paranoia bollocks that actually discourages societal safety and demonises young people and child - adult friendship.
I'm wondering what, if an, legal restrictions may possibly be in place
It could, for example, be a term of the licence to enter the school's land.
You could, also, not be a dick and make an assumption that the teachers aren't total morons that say things for nothing.
No one is being a dick here .... There's too much worrying about what might ( but doesn't ) happen these days .
Ridiculous. OP go ahead mate ... Take pics ! I would
There's too much of people getting huffy about "their legal rights" and wanting to litigate things.
I struggle with long sentences again but did the OP actually ask the school about the reason for the request or did he just run straight to STW to seek some barrack room legal opinion to tell him what he already believed?
I'm inclined to agree, I'd suggest that schools are public places (just like a public library) and as such you have every right to take photos of your, and other people's, kids, with good reason of course! That's still rightly covered by laws regarding the content and use of those images but theres no reasonable reason not to. For the odd "kid can't be identified" situation - harsh as it sounds the majority shouldn't suffer for the tiny minority -pull that kid out of the day instead.
Any child can be photographed at any point by anyone on the street, unless you hide them day and night you're not going to stop them being scattered all over social media now or in the next 20 years. People should get a grip and put things into perspective. And if you want your kid not to be photographed by loving parents of other kids, YOU can explain to them why they can't be at a photographed event.
It could, for example, be a term of the licence to enter the school's land.
I don't believe schools are "private" property where the owner has the right to dictate terms of entry.
Also, its not about being a dick, its about not bowing to paranoia and knee jerk reactions but viewing it logically and applying policies that protect the minority that need it without inconveniencing the majority who don't.
Some parents didn't want their children photographed by other parents and one of the Christmas Plays our children were in.
Our school waited until the end of the play and then organized for all the children who's parents consented to pictures being taken to stand and have their photos taken - either alone or in groups (of Angels etc), still in costume and against background scenery etc. It worked very well and we got some beautiful pictures.
I assume the children who's parents who didn't want them photographed were ushered out of the hall before they realised that they were being treated differently? Otherwise that would open up a whole other can of worms . . . .
I assume the children who's parents who didn't want them photographed were ushered out of the hall before they realised that they were being treated differently? Otherwise that would open up a whole other can of worms . . . .
Before they realised that by being sanctimonious dicks they had deprived themselves of some very nice memories.
Speaking as someone who's a bit out of touch because his children are grown up, what exactly is the 'worry' over having your children photographed running a race or acting in a play?
SST the thread is only two pages a couple of explanations have been given . In today's bad world children who are at risk or vulnerable for various reasons mix with other children in normal schools . If images of them appear on social media by accident they may be identified and located and come to harm . So three solution s option a make their lives worse and add to their misery and stigma by excluding them from school events as some suggest above option b a simple easy and harmless rule don't take photos or option c a difficult to enforce and impossible to police take photos but don't allow the photos on to social media or other publication.
A photo of your child at school is really not so important that another child should have to be taken out of a happy foster placement move towns and schools and go back into care.
Seems like our school got it right then. No one who wanted them was forced to go without photos and no one was put at risk.
no one was put at risk.
How do you know?
[quote=coffeeking ]I don't believe schools are "private" property where the owner has the right to dictate terms of entry.
You reckon they're public property where anybody has a right to be then? 😯