[Closed] Can you recommend a sports bike suitable for someone who hasn't ridden before?

No

Any fast sports bike has a performance way beyond the abilities of a learner. A middleweight commuter will out accelerate most cars short of supercars.

60 bhp is a good number for a newb. ER6, cb 500, sv 650 good bikes for beginners

a bike with a more upright riding position and a wider spread of power is far easier to learn to ride as well

This not sporty enough looking for you?

[img] [/img]

Yep - I'd say CBR600 all day every day. If you're feeling up to it, an RR could be the ticket. Failing that, a CBR600F or FS is a pretty capable bike.

I really wouldn't go any bigger than a 600, a thousand (IMO) is too much for the road, at least in an IL4 configuration. Failing that, look at getting a twin - less power but much more torque and in my opinion more fun to ride. Before all the clever buggers jump in, I'm not suggesting a 1098, more along the lines of a Mille/RSVR or even a Falco.

In response to TJ, you will be scared senseless on a bike bigger than the 500 you do your test on the first time you properly open it up. The way they take off up the road is probably not something you'll have witnessed before. However, you will get bored with an ER6 in a short space of time, I had a Hornet and for the first 4 months it was enough, after that I wanted something bigger. So I bought a fireplace which was too quick really.

I've now had 4 fireblade, currently have a new one and I hardly ride it. Its so flippin 'serious' that it robs the fun out of motorbikes for me. A 600 like an FS would be perfect in my opinion, easy enough to ride straight after your test (my girlfriend was more than happy on it) but quick enough to hustle along when you want to.

60bhp will become very boring very quickly...

Forget all that boring, sensible, reliable jap rubbish. Ducati Monster 696 or KTM Duke 2.

flange - 60 bhp is plenty. 120 mph+ and out accelerate a supercar? upto the speed limit.

SV650. Very quick bike in experienced hands.

Bit OT, my boss went straight to a ZZR1400 having never ridden on the road before and he's still alive, not the sharpest tool in the box though!!

It is much easier to learn to ride on something like a cb 500 than a fast sports bike adn it will tke you tens of thousands of miles to learn to ride it well

The fun comes from thrashing a bike. Its much easier and safer to thrash something of 60 bhp than of 160 bhp. I know some very good riders and they have nearly all stepped back from fast sports bikes for this reason.

Do your direct access test and talk to your instructors - see what they are riding

I made prety much the same decleration as the OP about 2 years ago when going for my test.

TJ said exactly the same thing!

I'd now agree with him.

The CB500 I learnt on was horrible, as were all the bikes at that school, utterly utterly horrible, shot suspension, slack chains, worn clutches, and only a vague sense that any of the controlls were actualy connected to anything.*

The ER5 (or whatever the kawasaki twin CB500 equivalent is) I took my test on, after going to a different training school, is always reviewed as a worse bike, but was infinately better (and as a resut I used a lot more fuel on what was termed the "fast test route" 🙂

*if anyone wants a recomendation of where not to do your training in the south east, give me an e-mail

Ahh, just buy what you like the look of. For what it's worth I started with -

Honda CB-1 400

[img] [/img]

Then got a CBR 600

[img] [/img]

Then a VTR1000 Firestorm

[img] [/img]

They only go as fast as you want them to!

more relaxed motorbike early on which I know I will replace in a year's time anyway. I can only afford one bike for the next few years.

A Honda CB500 with 30,000 on the clocks is worth about 0.001p more than one with 130,000 on the clocks, you wont lose any money on one!

For sporty without the power maybe get a bonneville cafe racer or a kawasaki W650 and some clip-ons? Or a CB500 and some flatter/more swept bars? There's even a very popular CB500 race series!

But if you want to go properly fast, a cb500 is going to bore you rigid. The man said he wants a proper bike straight off the bat. To me that says a Cb500 isn't going to do the job.

My next bike will be a 600 so I can actually feel like I'm using it, rather than the faaasand that I have now which never really seems like its trying.

That said, all the current thousands are fairly docile at low speeds. The days of the '04 Zx10 are long since passed

Kind thanks.

CBR 600 then? 600cc?

What do we think of this - £4K - or could I get something suitable for less

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201137415669972/sort/priceasc/usedbikes/cc-from/500cc/price-to/5000/cc-to/600cc/maximum-age/up_to_5_years_old/model/cbr/make/honda/radius/100/postcode/nw32ny/page/2?logcode=p

[img] http://pictures2.autotrader.co.uk/imgser-uk/servlet/media?id=1847600465&width=266&height=200 [/img]

flange - I suspect what the op thinks of as fast would be quite easily satisfied by a 60 bhp twin,

IMO a cbr 600 would be a mistake - not a bad mistake but you will get to be a better rider quicker on something with much less power and a a much higher riding position. It will also be much cheaper to run and much cheaper to repair when you drop it.

How do you fancy £600+ a year in tyres?

Whats wrong with the ER6 above?

ER6 looks sick too - thanks - I'm really looking into both. Have to have a think about what I'm really looking for.

And also in addition to the £4,000 which seems to be the standard asking price for the kind of bike I'm looking for - what's a rough all-in estimate of the amount of money I should set aside for the first year of owning this bike, including training, gear (helmet, suit etc.), keeping it insured, taxed and serviced? I'm tallying up the sums myself but it would be helpful to know from your own experiences roughly how much I should set aside. It looks to be at least another £4,000 and probably more.

Thanks again - this is so helpful...

Yup, CBR6 all day, every day. The weapon of choice for all new sports bike riders 🙂 Reliable, quick, comfy, everyone has had one so plenty around - dont be scared of high mileage.

Assuming 1st time rider, no NCB, I would not be looking at something that requires FC. You want a £2k bike TPFT - 1999/2000 CBR600F

You'll get bored of anything less within 3months.

Thats an RR so its more race/track based. I had one for an afternoon whilst mine was in for its first service and it was awesome fun, much more usable than my blade. Its still a 160mph+ motorbike but you have to ring its neck to get it up there, which as a newbie you won't be doing. Any less than 4k for one of those and you're looking at a ropey ex-track use one of similar age, or one without the USD forks and radial brakes

£2k will get you a FS or F which will be a bit slower but slightly more user friendly. I sold my 53 plate FS for £1800 and still kick myself for doing it. Commuted, track days and sunday spins plus its a bit better for taking the OH out on the back of. Not much to sit on on a RR

Also, older Honda's are probably the best made motorcycles out there. It will NEVER go wrong, ever.

jhw - depends on how many miles - a couple of thousand at least probably more like 3000

assume 5000 miles a year - that 1.5 rear tyres at £140 + fitting, 1 front tyre at £100 + fitting. One major service at several hundred.

£500+ for direct access training and test. £500+ for helmet / boots/ gloves / waterproofs

Insurance - starts to get cheaper after 28IIRC and very cariable depending on where you live and where yo keep the bike - many hundreds probably

Thanks - I wonder - once I've figured out costings etc. and got a shortlist of bikes this week - could I post that shortlist on here just to get your opinions? Trying to get advice from all possible quarters here

And thanks again - really good advice from all

jhw - indeed - expect the same divide of opinion tho.

Here is a few more if its the sportsbike image you want - Aprillia 250. Older Ducati 600 SS (might be just a bit too slow 🙂

[img] [/img]

If it has to be a sports bike and a commuter you could do a lot worse than a Yamaha Thundercat.

Costs depend on useage. If you're just using it for sunny weekends then a set of leathers, gloves, boots and a helmet, probably for around a grand for some decent stuff. I got some nice new Berik leathers for £600 but something along the lines of Frank Thomas, AS and similar will be a bit less. Fit is all important though, they need to be tioght like a tiger!

Tyres - I've put 3000 miles on the blade now and its due another set of tyres. Ive done two rears and a front in that time, but thats with some heavy track use and its a thousand which tears through them a bit quicker. A 600 will last you much much longer. £200 for a set fitted. If its old enough, you can service it yourself, esepcially if its not got a warrenty anyway. Servicing a bike is easy and its useful to get to know your bike. Tax on a 600 will be muchos cheapness, and insurance will be much less on an older bike TPFT. Agree with above about about insurance,

How fast do you want to go? A 500 will get you upto the speedlimit as fast as the laws of physics (well a sticky rear tyre and holing the frotn end down) will allow.

How tall are you? Under 5ft10 and there's a whole load of 90's 400cc race reps that'll out handle bigger sports bikes (short wheelbase, lighter weight) without the mental power. RC30/RC35 will last forever and a day with fairly routine maintenance (valve clearance is tricky and only adjustable with a set of callipers and a few trips to a honda dealer for various sized shims) and no cam-blet to wory about.

£200 for a set fitted.

|On a cbr 600?

Surely, like with pretty much all vehicles, it's all about self control. Buy yourself a 1 litre monster and use the throttle less, gain from better braking, better control etc? What's the point in riding a bedstead for years and getting miserable about it? Just control your urges to go nuts? I drive a fast road car, I don't drive it fast very often but it's light years more fun to drive slowly than my slow car is. I'd hate to be stuck with just the trudgery of a normal 2 litre TD.

You're recommending a Ducati and a two stroke 250? Are you nuts? The first time the Duc gets wet it WILL stop working. And the 250 will nip up quicker than you can get the castrol into it and highside you into orbit.

For a first bike, go Jap and preferably Honda. Servicing if you do it yourself (undo sump plug, drain oil, take filter off, put filter on, put oil in, clean up oil, refit sump plug, put more oil in) will cost you £70 tops.

cvoffeeking - sports bikes don't have a lot of low torque so do not ride well in the lower rev range. A bike with a 13000 rpm redline does not work well at 3000 rpm.

It also will not handle properly at such low revs and in general they are harder to corner because of the wider rear tyre

Its also much harder to learn to corner it properly - the temptation is just to go fast in a straight line and slow right down for corners..

remember a cb 500 will be as fast as your "fast car" up to the legal limit

Can anyone recommend a fast bike which isn't so aggressive it'll kill me as a beginner?

I'd never riden a motorbike until last week but it was an itch that needed scratching. Didn't trust myself/anyone else on the road so I've bought one of these to play on. Does the job nicely and almost relates to mountain biking 🙂
[img] [/img]

flange - Member

You're recommending a Ducati and a two stroke 250? Are you nuts?

left feild suggestions.

. Servicing if you do it yourself (undo sump plug, drain oil, take filter off, put filter on, put oil in, clean up oil, refit sump plug, put more oil in) will cost you £70 tops.

Servicing is rather more than that. Balancing 4 carbs is not easy nor is doing 24 fiddly valye clearances.

jhw - if you want a sportsbike then get as modern a 600cc as you can afford, they got progressively more peaky as they evolved, to the point that most of them now have the rev limit somewhere between 14,000rpm - 16,000rpm and the power doesnt really kick in until north of 10,000 revs....the relative lack of squirt in the lower revs is ideal for somebody new to sportsbikes. It means you wont loop it by grabbing too much throttle, you wont spin the rear end up pulling out of junctions etc....all things that can and do happen to newbies on big bikes.

Dont get an Aprilia 250, lovely as they are they are a money pit as the 2-stroke engine requires more than a little TLC to keep them sweet....dont get a twin, they deliver their power in great huge dollops lower in the revs and you will probably end up flicking yourself off the back if you're clumsy with the throttle...and you will be to begin with.

I got a Kawasaki zx7r for my first bike, a 750cc 90's World Superbike legend....to say it was too much is an understatement, the learning curve was steep and after 3 months i (predictably) crashed it opening up the throttle before the bend i was on had opened up properly, bike was still leaned over and the rear span up....couldnt catch it in time and smashed the bike into the kerb and then a wall....thankfully i had parted company with the bike at this point and was sliding down the road....wounded pride and all that.

I then did the sensible thing and went and got a sports 600cc for the reasons i outlined at the start of my post, much better and spent a very enjoyable 18 months on that bike learning the nuances of bike control until i sold it on and was ready for something bigger again.

CBR600 FS for that sort of money will be fuel injected. Valve clearances will need to be checked once in a blue moon with that sort of mileage, I didn't do them once on my 60k mile blackbird. Even then its not expensive if you get an independant to do it.

I can't think of a worse bike for a learner than an RS250. And I've had one! Two strokes are for blokes that like tinkering, fair play they are lovely and smell ace but for a first bike you want something you can ride a lot and the RS will be stuck in the shed waiting for new rings/Head/electrical part.

Last time I checked, a set of Maxxis sport doodahs or whatever they are called were £180 fitted. I used them for track days and commuting and they were no worse than the dunlops fitted to the 600 when I got it

flange - Member

CBR600 FS for that sort of money will be fuel injected. Valve clearances will need to be checked once in a blue moon with that sort of mileage, I didn't do them once on my 60k mile blackbird. Even then its not expensive if you get an independant to do it.

still needs to be balanced does it not? Not checking valve clearnces in 60 000 miles? recomending cheapo tyres?

I would tend to agree with much of what has been said above, that a 1000cc sports bike is waaaaay too much bike for an inexperienced rider unless you are very self-disciplined.

You say you won't be able to afford to upgrade but that has to be weighed against the costs of potentially chucking a big bike down the road.

One of the reasons I picked my current bike (Suzuki RF900) was because it had a wide linear power range that you can actually use without worrying too much about the front wheel popping up. A colleague bought an R1 around the same time as me (he hadn't ridden for 25years) and miraculously he has been ok but only because he has taken it easy. He freely admits he doesn't use a fraction of the power and still cacks himself every time he opens it up.

Maxxis tyres are cheap but good, most motorcycle mags tested them against all the usual suspects from Pirelli, Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop etc when they first appeared a few years ago and found them to be just as good....if i recall correctly they didnt have the outright grip (they were testing at a race track and were a few seconds a lap slower) but behaved in a predictable manner and gave plenty of feedback.

That said, tyres are funny things...its all in the head so to speak and i'll never put another Pirelli on my bike after a bad time with some Diablo Corsa IIIs a few years ago!

TJ, I had a Ducati 900ss. It's the worst bike possible. The 900 was slow but worst still unreliable as hell. If he bought one he'd soon be put off biking.

Balancing carbs on a FI bike?

Cheapo tyres that PB tested and said they were pretty good. To the point where only Guy Martin could get them to delaminate. I've had three sets now and I've never had a problem with them. I find them much more predictable than the shite dunlops that were on there before.

Sorry, I forgot - you know everything about everything.

Honda Bros 650 (NT650)- cheap, unfaired, lovely thumpy engine. Try to find a modified one with a CBR600 transplant front end (reasonably common) as you'll then have a twin disc setup and much better forks. A Blade shock (and a VFR750 rear end if you want to go the whole hog), some sticky rubber and you'll be embarrassing 'proper' sports bikes on tight circuits for years to come.

I've had all sorts of bikes from 'Blades to BMWs, and the only one I really miss is the Bros. Closest equivalent is a steel-framed hardtail, the sort of thing you go back to after realising that full-suspension competence is just a bit dull.

depends on the fuel injection type but many require rebalancing as they have manual throttles. some of the latest are fly by wire with stepper motors to control the throttles but most are a manual throttle in each throttle body that still needs to be synchronised. But then anyone who doesn't do valve clearances in 60 000 miles must have huge mechanical knowledge

What I have read about the cheap tyres is very different. I have not ridden recent maxxis but I have ridden cheap tyres in the past and would never do so again.

I'd recommend most 600 sports bikes as they are fairly docile up to around 6-7000rpm. It's the handling that will be the biggest shock as it will much quicker, firmer ride and sharper brakes which combined can have you laid on the tarmac in no time if unaware.
After riding my brothers Yamaha R6 last week I really don't see the need for anything any bigger as most will never exceed the bikes abilities before their own abilities run out. He's only just past his test 3 months ago but has ridden smaller bikes all his life if that any reference for you.

cvoffeeking - sports bikes don't have a lot of low torque so do not ride well in the lower rev range. A bike with a 13000 rpm redline does not work well at 3000 rpm.

It also will not handle properly at such low revs and in general they are harder to corner because of the wider rear tyre

Its also much harder to learn to corner it properly - the temptation is just to go fast in a straight line and slow right down for corners..

I find it odd that you should say that though as a colleague of mine rides an R1 (has done for a few years) and says lesser bikes are harder to deal with, harder to turn and feel less safe. He used to run about on a fazer 1000 (more torque, less top end) and didn't like it, and before that a 600. I'm not a bike guy, I like a bit of padding around me. I'm just not sure why the same skills don't simply apply to the larger bike but require more control.

Rather than recommend a bike I'll tell you my tale.

16yrs old - 50cc
17 - old 250
Next bike 23yrs old - kmx 200 to commute on.

Long gap

27 - GSXR 400
3months later GSXR 600 SRAD
2weeks later, nearly died.

My patchy experience had convinced me that I was capable of riding it fast.

It didn't put me off and 3 months later when my legs worked again I bought a TRX850 then later a GSXR 600 K2.
This time I did my Advanced Training & trackdays.

Now I get my kicks on a mountain bike.

My advice is, if you really want a sports bike, buy a track bike and use it properly.

On the road, on my sports bike I have been dusted once by a chap on a big old Triumph 1200 & once by a chap on a BMW GS. On both occasions they knew the road well but there was no way I was getting past!

And if you are super competitive and suffer from RedMist then don't even buy a road bike.

coffeeking - the wider tyres alter the steering characteristics and not for the better, they are designed to work at a certain speed and revs and do not respond as well outside of that, throttles are much more sensitive and as you can maintain high average speeds without cornering quickly many people never learn to corner well.

The limits are so far away that you cannot even see them or get near to them - this all means that when something goes wrong you do not have tee reflexes to deal with it.

folowing riders I could always tell who had done their time on smaller bikes

Direct access costs vary, 2nd palce I went charged £550 for unlimited training upto your first test. Most places will charge £450-£500 for a 3 day course. Although the first place I went was so badly organised you wer elucky to get 3 hours riding in on any given day. The second place charged £100 per half day (~3 hours) but did do lessons 1to1 or if it was 2to1 the other guy was on his unlimited lesons so generaly rode behind you so you were getting the most benifit from the instructor and he was just getting in practice.

On top of that....

CBT £100
Theory test £35
Mod 1 £15
Mod 2 £75
+ fails (most people seem to fail at least one of the modules and if your on an intensive course you'll lsoe the mod2 fee if you fail the mod1)

depends on the fuel injection type but many require rebalancing as they have manual throttles. some of the latest are fly by wire with stepper motors to control the throttles but most are a manual throttle in each throttle body that still needs to be synchronised. But then anyone who doesn't do valve clearances in 60 000 miles must have huge mechanical knowledge

Can't say I've ever needed that doing, even on my POS GSXR and that needed pretty much everything else rebuilding on it. I've checked valve clearances, they were fine. Whats your point?

What I have [b]read[/b] about the cheap tyres is very different. [b]I have not ridden recent maxxis[/b] but I have ridden cheap tyres in the past and would never do so again

Right, so what you've read about them overrides anyones personel experience then? You've not used Maxxis tyres, you don't ride a sports bike and the only knowledge you have is what you've read, although not on the tyres in question.

This thread is becoming much like an IAM/ROSPA club discussion....motorcycles are fun, do the test, buy a bike and enjoy doing silly things....when i first got a bike i left early one morning with my passport in my pocket and sent my girlfriend a picture of me later that day in France....the Nurburgring (and back) is possible in a day if you catch the earliest and latest ferries available....and ride it like you stole it!....i put 16,000 miles on the 600cc i had for 18 months just from doing things for sh*ts and giggles....sadly the current bike has barely covered 4,000 miles in 18 months as i spend more time on the mountain bike now.

[url= http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3381001.htm ]RR - can't believe how cheap these have got[/url]

[url= http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3403625.htm ]Decent FS[/url]

[url= http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3286680.htm ]Muchos cheapness CBR600RR[/url]

[url= http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3109603.htm ]In the interest of variety[/url]

For honda's, especially F/FS's dont be put off by higher than normal mileage. Also, a CBRF will always hold its money, especially if you buy now and sell around April/May time.

For honda's, especially F/FS's dont be put off by higher than normal mileage. Also, a CBRF will always hold its money, especially if you buy now and sell around April/May time.

Indeed - most motorcycles do such low milages that a higher than average mileage is no worry at all - but do check suspension and chains

it fantastic how muchbike yo can get for your money =- like in those ads above

Jap 4 is what you need, but remember even basket cases will be £1500.

If you go unfaired it will keep the speeds down..., and go as new/low miles as you can afford.

Helmet/Gloves/Jacket/Trousers/Boots could easily set you back £1000, but Hein Gericke is a good place to start.

As for evolution, my train of bikes are:
On 'L' plates 50/80/250
and then 250/350*3/600/90/750/900/1000/1050*2

And as for cheap tyres, I ran the remoulds that came out a few years ago and while the rears were decent, the fronts were crap - commuting on a zx9r.

And agree, most bike(r)s do stupidly low mileage - although mine has done 16k so far this year 🙂

Beware high mileage though as it doesn't impact the engines, but can murder the running gear - and wear out discs etc. I ran my zx9r to over 50k, and once past 40k it cost me a bomb, as it was used in all weathers and needed loads replacing. Eventually p/x'd when the rad went - couldn't physically get it off...

Motorbike engines have been bombproof for years, people used to run screaming from anything with more than 10k on the clock but most decent sized engines 400cc+ and multi-cylinder will do 100,000k now, the zx7r i bought had 28,000 miles on it and never miseed a beat....did only have it 3 months though!.....go on the Honda Blackbird forums and loads of those guys have 100,000+ mile bikes.

Ohhh, and be aware that they're changeing the rules yet again to get rid of the MOD1 test and bringing back the turn in the road and manual handling excercises to the actual test (having wasted millions building test centers with MOD1 areas), whether getting rid of the swerve test is a good/bad idea is another matter*. So don't take your mod1 in the weeks running upto the new test.

*I thought it was a good thing as it wasn't untill I started practiceing for it that I really got to grips with how to flick a big heavy bike arround as you can't muscle it about like you can a push bike or to some extent a CG125, you really have to use a different set of skills.

and ride it like you stole it!

FWIW I've heard lots of good things about the new Maxxis and tyre advances have been so massive in the last 20 years that most of them have cornering capabilities, in a wide range of conditions, far exceeding those of your average rider. Having said that, my next tyres are going to be Diablo Supercorsas 😀

VFR400 or RVF400 are nice little bikes to start on

On tyres, Bike this month were testing the new Dunlop RoadSmart2 (sport/touring) tyres and said they'd be happy fitting them to sports bikes they were that good.

Right, my last post on the subject as I'm boring myself

Tips for buying a 2nd hand bike

Check head bearings. A 600 sports bike is ripe for practising your wheelies and some cack handed chav may well have tried. They will bugger the head bearings (see headset in MTB terms) and its no fun at all changing them. Therefore its not cheap to have them replaced. Same goes for fork seals as well although these are cheaper to do.

Chain and sprocket. Make sure its not at the end of its life (the adjusters are all the way out) and that its in decent nick. If a bikes not been looked after, the chain will be the first thing to give it away. And like a pushbike, you'll need to do chain and sprocket at the same time and unlike a pushbike, they aren't cheap.

Tyres - bargin a new set in if you can, or barter them down (as you would a car).

Brakes - take a test ride and check for pulsing at the lever. If it does, the discs are warped and they are quite expensive to replace. This is an MOT failure.

Non-standard parts - make sure you get all the original bits. Also I'd avoid anything with an aftermarket paintjob or polished frame - usually a sure fire sign that its been dropped. And if the fairing looks like it hasn't seen much action compared to the mileage it probably hasn't. Most folks fit aftermarket track bodywork to 600's so they don't damage the expensive road OEM stuff. Then refit and sell on. I know someone with a Ducati who did just this and that bike had seen more gravel traps than Lorenso

Other things like hero blobs (the bits under the footpegs) ground off often means its probably done some track work, or at least been ridden hard on the road. If thats the case salute him and walk away, there's plenty about that you don't need to get some ex track slag.

This is just stuff I've learnt from buying second hand in the past. But to be fair, its far more fun than buying a new bike and you won't lose an astronomical amount of money like I have.

VFR400 or RVF400 are nice little bikes to start on

Like I said on the 1st page, only if you're of Japanese proportions (say 5ft10 or lower).

On a related note, has the OP ever sat on a proper sports bike? I ask becasue he didn't see any difference between an ER-6f, a CBR600f and a CBR600RR. A sports bike won't suit everyone as they (stereotypicaly) have very high/backwards pegs on rearsets and clip on bars right down on the forks. Whereas an ER-6f will have footpegs in a 'normal' position rather than rearsets, a seat heigh where you want it, and handlebars with some rise rather than clip-ons.

Go an buy a copy of Bike, there's a feature on workhorse/commuter/first bikes this month. Yamaha Tediums, Honda Dullvilles, etc etc.

What TJ said.

You won't enjoy a sports bike anyway. But... if you must, a Firstorm.

Just remembered some advice I was given.

MotoGP is the F1 of Motorbikes

The bikes have 95% of the power, lightweightness, and componentry of a litre superbike you can walk into a dealer and buy. Infact the latest cost cutting proposals are to ban the prototypes and use production bikes. A Few years ago there was a bit of a barney because one of the lower teams decided not to buy yamaha M1's, but some stock R1's instead and replace every component with something slightly different to get arround the current prototype rules.

A Formula Ford has a quater of the power of a F1 car, and you wouldn't dream of driving one on the road (yes you can SVA them with a numberplate, brake light and mirrors) straight after your test, so don't think that because it's got a quater of the power a 50cc twin is going to be rubbish!

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones. You may be all right on a sports bike straight off the bat, amate went from no riding to big fast bikes no problems but, no offence intended perhaps you need to go to a dealers sit on a few and see what sort of sports bike; mild er6 , sports tourer; zzr 600 (bit old nowadays) or honda vfr750 (reliable, comfy and fast) or nutter fast bike; blade, r1 etc you fancy, can fit on, afford, afford to insure etc, Then consider realisticaly what you are going to use it for; commuting, trackdays, fast touring across europe, looning around the lanes, just steady riding and then ask for a reccomendations. (I would point out I have ridden many bikes of various styles for many years both for fun and for work and been trained to a high degree and was quite fast on the road (lost it all now though :-))

For the road - Yamaha wr450f with supermoto wheels. Fun fun fun. Fun

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones

Not really, more the fact that they (well, mine anyway) only did sub 30mpg. 95 miles to RLOD was the norm, whereas the same size tank on a Blade would take you 50% further.

Kawasaki Ninja 250R? Good for beginners.

thieisnotaspoon - it was Peter Clifford's WCM team that bought R1 engines and changed bits and pieces to race in MotoGP when it went to 990cc in 2002 i think?....the other teams put in a protest and had them thrown out....got to laugh that it now turns out he was a visionary and thats the way the class is heading, proddy engines in bespoke chassis!

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones

Not really, more the fact that they (well, mine anyway) only did sub 30mpg. 95 miles to RLOD was the norm, whereas the same size tank on a Blade would take you 50% further

True - Happy memories, mine had twin Yoshi cans on it - nice rumble on it!

You're right Deviant.

And I agree totally.

Thread hijack - Who's going to want to see Colin Edwards and Ant West rattling round at the back 4 seconds off the pace? They should have an under 21 championship on the CRT bitsas instead

Thank you all.

Very helpful.

[i]May I phrase the question another way?[/i]:

"Can anyone recommend a bike which looks fast enough to attract the ladeez and has the capability to plonk one on the back, but which will not kill me as a complete beginner (with redmist/aggressive tendencies)"?

I don't care about it actually going fast but I want it to look like it's going at 90mph when it's stood still.

What's your budget?

Unlimited really, but set a max of £5,000 given all the additional expenses. Something for £2,000 would be nice. It's only my first bike - no need for anything fancy schmancy. Something that looks fast but rides reliable. CBR600 looks compelling.

Cbr600f. Ive had all sorts including big sports bikes and giant traillies. They are common, fairly cheap, not too intimidating and spares are plentifull. A bit like the focus of the car world. It wont spit you off unless your really cack handed and some models/colours look quite nice. I'm 6'2" and its comfy and has a decent tank range (for a sports bike). Mines an older one (1999) but goes like stink and handles well. You just have to rev them compared to litre bikes. As mentioned earlier an sv650 would be a good choice too.

Get a cbr600. It will do everything you want. Fast, great handling, and light. You can carry a pillion and it looks good.

word of warning for the RR model, if you want it for commuting it will only really average high 30 mpg.

Where abouts in the country are you?

£5k for attracting ladeez?
Aprilia Dorsoduro might turn my head. I'm not a lady though. But bikes are crap at attracting ladies.

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I will search for CBR 600Fs and post a shortlist on here in a few days - will be really interested to hear all your views. Thank you all very much. Is Biketrader the best place or will I be scammed, sort of like a Gumtree for bikes?

IME that is not the sort of bike that attracts the laydeez (the Aprillia that is), they tend to like sleek, fast and stylish (apologies if that sounds sexist) but it's the same reasoning why 'most' women don't go for muddy mountainbikers 😉

Now if you want a babe magnet here's mine and a very nice example can be picked up for <£1500, insurance is nowt (£79 a year for me) and it goes like stink - also one of the few bikes which flatters the female posterior.
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Its also much harder to learn to corner it properly - the temptation is just to go fast in a straight line and slow right down for corners..

Absolutely right. I passed my test and within 3 weeks was on a ZZR1100 (years ago). I could stuff everyone on the straights and just pottered round the corners. Then times was hard and I sold it and bought an AR125. Then I learnt to ride properly because I had to keep up the momentum.

If you want reliable, comfortable and still very quick but easy to handle then a VFR750/800 will do the job. I recently tested an Aprilia RSV, Blade, Blackbird, R1 and VFR800 when I wanted a new (old) bike. I bought the VFR because not only was it the most comfortable and cheapest of the ones I tested, but on my test route it was the fastest as well. Mostly because the suspension was set for the road not a super smooth track and the power was more controllable than with the more powerful bikes. On the Blade and the Aprilia I was virtually crippled after a 40min test ride and this slowed me down. the VFR i can go on all day. It's hardly slow either - it's apparently good for 160mph...

For what its worth I took my test 2 1/2 years ago and got a BMW F650 single has max 50 bhp and whilst something that could cruise a bit quicker on the Mway would be nice its fine. It gets out of breath above 75-80 and is pretty slow for a bike, its still quicker than most cars to 60 and great fun to ride. I dont get close to using its limited capabilities, having a beardie weirdie advanced instructor to help me has been an eye opener (joined http://www.tvam.org.uk/). A sports bike will take you fast in a straight line but you will not really learn to ride quickly.

Get a 600 Hornet if it is an old one put some cash into sorting the suspension. Can scratch and go as fast as you will want to and is easy to ride and comfortable.

£5k for attracting ladeez?
Aprilia Dorsoduro might turn my head. I'm not a lady though. But bikes are crap at attracting ladies.

Nice bike, would attract me... I'm not a lady either though

Sounds like you want to give her beans now and then so I'd seriously recommend a track day with whatever you buy. Find out what you and it can do without frost/diesel/lamp-posts/manure/potholes/them smallest french cars with the worst drivers/mad cyclists.

You'll probably do what a lot do and push the limit on the roads slightly more and more as time goes on. An approach which favours the involvement of luck.

Now if you want a babe magnet here's mine and a very nice example can be picked up for <£1500, insurance is nowt (£79 a year for me) and it goes like stink - also one of the few bikes which flatters the female posterior.

I'm a big Aprilia fan, having owned, put 20k miles on then smashed to smithereens an 03 RSV but those big supermotos (and big KTMs) are just wrong, a compromise.

Supermoto is about light, flickable fun, not all day comfort. It's about grip, lean angle, wheelies, riding up ginels/snickets and just generally upsetting hand wringers.