Have another sea eagle photo (daughter for scale)
I read a similar book about scottish nature depletion, it had an extensive section on the number of animals destroyed during the victorian era on shooting estates. It had excerpts from the estate records – there were hundreds and hundreds of native animals and predatory birds killed every year on single estates alone, all listed in the estate accounts. The countryside must have been teeming with wildlife. All destroyed for grouse and deer.
supposedly it was william the conqueror (1066?) who claimed england belonged to him, split it between his cronies, . So, his cronies found that deer meat would fetch good money so arranged forests so that they could hunt deer better, and people were no longer allowed to forage in the forests to live, in case it affected the deerhunting. so they had to work for the landowner, or get branded/hung etc, to survive. That was the beginning of the notion of Property
i like a story of the cycle of beech nuts. Every 7years beech trees have a bumper crop. So the mice eat the nuts, have big families and get fat,so the owls eat the mice, and breed lots, until there's no more mice to eat. So they spread out to other areas to find food, and then its time for another big year for the beech mast
Im very keen on the reintroduction of beavers and pine marten, water voles,otter too, lets hope we dont need to reintroduce badgers, but mink and grey squirrel need to go. and i hear fallow deer are a major problem down here there not having any predators
some may miss a few sheep, but less deer should even things out for the farmers, if theyll share and share alike
bird numbers have crashed in the intervening years
Bird flu devastated the Gannet and other sea bird populations down here last two years. Flip side is marine mammal populations have benefited as a result. Used to stay at a family house on the coast and twice last year have looked out the kitchen window to see a pod of dolphins cruise past. Frequent reports last year where as used to be really quite rare. Usually a seal or two bobbing around as well. Obvs fish stocks are higher bringing them in.
I'll see your Sea Eagle and daughter and raise you a colleague and a Slovak bald eagle.
Glad these releases have been dealt with, but I long for a full complement of predators in this Country. If there are wolves roaming the Netherlands, with no issues, then why not here?
Re lynx, they are impressive but are as near as damnit facilitative feeders on roe deer. They are opportunistic though, with a wide range of prey items, but roe deer is number one by a long way. They ambush hunt, so need cover, ie trees. It's likely that the loss of forest cover was a greater driver of their extinction than hunting. Remember, roe deer pre 20th Century were nearly extinct in England. Now their numbers have exploded through increased cover (marginal but enough) and a lack of hunting.
They're also know to keep fox and badger numbers down, since they are direct predators of their kits. They've been know to keep wolves out of wooded areas too. But despite how fearsome they can be, they fear human presence and will skulk off. I don't think there is a single recorded attack on a person in Europe (if there is, it is a really low number).
Different parts of Europe have different levels of 'problems' with lynx. Norway, have big issues because the farmers insist on grazing their livestock in wooded areas. Sheep are as thick as mince, so are easy prey. Equally, you don't have to prove your sheep has been killed by a lynx, just fill in a return and you get your money. I think Hungary has zero compensation, the farmers keep their stock away from lynx areas and employ guard dogs. Romania, I think you have to get the sheep investigated by a Govt vet, the vast majority of cases being the sheep died of other causes and the lynx fed on the carrion.
We have a warped perception of what our natural world should look like. At present it is a shadow of what it could be. But change won't happen because of fear mongering and a landowning lobby that resists anything they can, to maintain their post 1750 hegemony.
The difference with wolves in the Netherlands is that they are there naturally and there is a lot of debate about what to do with them.
Someone mentioned pine martins above. Doing really well in Scotland and expanding their range hugely
Living on an island reintroductions have to be planned. They cannot just happen.
It's probably been mentioned above somewhere but I thought the way an apex predator like a lynx kept the numbers of deer down was mainly not through the number actually predated, but (in time) the change in behaviour their presence generated with more time spent on lookout so less time to eat and get frisky.
Where are you @mert if you don’t mind me asking?
About 75km north of Göteborg, living in the middle of a forest. Much of it is old growth as well. Lots of wildlife.
I know barely anyone who has definitely seen a lynx, even people living for 50+ yrs where they are fairly common and tracks are common in winter (various spots where I used to ski you’d see fresh tracks each day through much of the winter).
I know a couple of people who've seen them out and about, both are people who are out and about professionally though, one works for the local kommun doing land management stuff, the other runs ultramarathons for a living! AFAIK we *had* a few breeding pairs "locally" i.e. within the nearest few hundred sq km. My sightings are limited to the foot prints i mentioned and the local wildlife park though!
Sheep and lamb are taken in Sweden but the farmers I knew were never really animated about the presence of lynx in the area. Wolves on the other hand would be a concern if spotted (usually out on a snowmobile) or if footprints were seen (rare).
There is a fairly good government backed insurance coverage for livestock taken by protected animals IIRC. Though there was a local out of season permit to cull a pack of wolves living in the forest nearby as they were starting to have a significant local impact. (Double digit of kills in the space of a few weeks, and being seen in and around some farms and rural housing.) That was over a decade ago though, and we still get a good number round here.
Think the Norwegians get 2-300 sheep taken a year, Sweden is about 2/3rds of that.
I will say that Lynx are A) huge, I've been within a metre of one at a place called Nordens Ark (well worth visiting if you're in the area) and B) Incredibly cute.
LOL, no bears in Donnie. Just lots of fake fur and claws.
an apex predator like a lynx kept the numbers of deer down was mainly not through the number actually predated, but (in time) the change in behaviour their presence generated
Time for this I reckon
So the other two have now been captured
It's clear from the video in the link that these lynx are very tame so presumably have no survival skills.
I do think that "deliberately abandoned" is probably a more appropriate term than "released" which suggests a wild animal being returned to the wild.
I do think that “deliberately abandoned” is probably a more appropriate term than “released” which suggests a wild animal being returned to the wild.
I don’t think there were any Lynx legally held in private collections in Scotland. It might be possible there were some unofficial ones, but four? So it does seem someone has gone to quite a lot of effort to get them to the Cairngorms to call it abandoned.
Of course they were abandoned. What do you think the owner was doing, taking them for a picnic and they accidentally got lost? Some people drive significant distances and chuck unwanted kittens out of the car round here too. It’s how you stop them howling at your door.
To go back to the eagle owl part of the thread, a few years ago there was a number of birds that appeared on driven grouse moors during the breeding season, which mysteriously disappeared before the start of the shooting season. The allegation being that these were released by gamekeepers to control predators - eagle owls will happily take out adult hen harriers and their nests. There hasn't been a multiple bird influx since the suspicions were raised.
Sad face
🙁
They are carrying out a postmortem but I wonder if dying unexpectedly overnight suggests it ate something poisonous/dangerous.
I hope this increases the sentence in any possible successful prosecution
I notice that the news is being very pointed about it being a deliberate release and irresponsible from animal welfare point of view, let alone a rewilding point of view...
There's an interesting programme on North American lynx ATM on Sky Mix
I have just found out why they don't have tails.
Probably a gamekeeper leaving out poisoned bait to kill raptors.
Awful to learn one of these beautiful creatures has died.
As above, either some braindead game keeper (as they all are), or the stress of being let out in an unfamiliar environment by some other braindead moron.
Hopefully the remaining are OK.
Humans really are the worst thing on earth.
I watched that Wolf piece on YouTube and that led me on to watch a beaver one as well. I reckon Scotland/UK need to reintroduce Lynx and Beaver and really start to try and get rewilding and renaturalising a fair go.
Bever are now living in Scotland. Both from official reintroduction and unofficial releases
Yes but it is still very difficult to get government approval for the release of beavers throughout the UK.
For example the Knepp Estate, which is three and a half thousand acres, has been waiting years for department of environment approval for the release of the beavers which they are forced to keep in an enclosed pen.
ernielynch
Full MemberThere’s an interesting programme on North American lynx
Of course in america they're not Lynx, they're Axe, and therefore can be dangerous but are much less likely to escape
supposedly it was william the conqueror (1066?) who claimed england belonged to him, split it between his cronies, . So, his cronies found that deer meat would fetch good money so arranged forests so that they could hunt deer better, and people were no longer allowed to forage in the forests to live, in case it affected the deerhunting. so they had to work for the landowner, or get branded/hung etc, to survive. That was the beginning of the notion of Property
Nah, hunting forests predate the Normans by at least a couple of centuries, if not more. King Alfred the Great had a hunting lodge in Chippenham, his hunting grounds and forests were extensive, there’s a Forest Lane running from Lacock into Melksham, with an area of Melksham called Forest, and Chippenham was a major Saxon administrative centre by 853. There were major skirmishes with Viking invaders in and around Chippenham, until Alfred beat them into submission at Eddington in 878.
There’s a fair bit about the early history of the area here:
https://www.wiltshirehistory.org/chippenham-research/anglo-saxon-settlement
Nah, hunting forests predate the Normans by at least a couple of centuries, if not more.
The Normans use of forests was complicated.
It started with hunting forests with a limited number of areas operating under the special forest laws to protect game (lucky things have changed eh) but over time it changed into a handy tax option. If you wanted to clear some land you just went ahead and did it and then paid the fine. It doesnt seem to have really been considered a crime but just a business transaction in most cases.
It ended up with the entire of Essex being a forest for a time and a major chunk of the overall country. It provided a good source of cash and if a king really needed a chunk of cash fast they could take the short term option of cash for the removal of the law. Under John Cornwall and Devon for example paid to have forest law removed from the majority of their countries.
I watched that Wolf piece on YouTube and that led me on to watch a beaver one as well. I reckon Scotland/UK need to reintroduce Lynx and Beaver and really start to try and get rewilding and renaturalising a fair go.
If only we could convert the grouse moors into a less artificial habitat we'd have plenty of space for lynx, beavers, wolves...
852000 acres in the UK are grouse moor - twice the size of Greater London. 44% of Cairngorms National Park are grouse moor, 28% of the North York Moors, 21% of the Peak District and so on.
As a comparison, National Trust own 620,000 acres.
Interesting that there is an estate up for sale on the edge of the Cairngorms national park, just across the river from the Lynx release advertised with grouse shooting and deer stalking. As a nation would it be better if we managed the land in a better way https://www.onthemarket.com/details/14887971/
Hellooo… Wasps?
Nah ticks. Wasps have a nasty sting and all but they dont specialise in carrying a bunch of nasty diseases which can do anything from make you bedridden through to making you vegetarian.
Looks like hepatic lipidosis might possibly have been the cause of death of the sadly deceased lynx :
Lynx let go in Cairngorms were starving, says zoo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy7xl8n0llo
"RZSS said two of the cats had eaten meat left from them in traps set to capture them, but no other food while they had been on the loose"
It is thought that all four were from the same litter and very young. I really hope that they catch the responsible persons. Apparently they are trying to establish the origins of the lynx through DNA although that is likely to be unsuccessful as there is no database for them to refer to.
@aberdeenlune Could be many reasons for them selling up, up to and including they're getting out now before they fall foul of tighter regulation?
Interesting that there is an estate up for sale on the edge of the Cairngorms national park
Let me see what I have down the back of the sofa!
Shooting estates are coming back in public ownership in various forms. Lets hope that one is. Local communities are given the right to make preferential bids iirc
Shooting estates are being bought for peatland restoration and tree planting. Lots of grants in that.
I'm sure they can aqueeze a wind farm in too.
(Balavil did have plans for a "House of Bruar" type retail outlet on the A9 but planning permission was refused.)
Now it's pigs....
I'm guessing this is the same crackpot doing this. Can't be too hard to work out who has this menagerie?
I'm guessing this is the same crackpot doing this. Can't be too hard to work out who has this menagerie?
The other way to look at it is that stopping these animals from being released is the crackpot idea, when all the evidence shows how much good they do for the ecosystems in which they live. But then, we live in a country where foxes are viewed as dangerous animals and treated as vermin, where 'weeds' are sprayed relentlessly, and where almost everyone shrugs and doesn't understand why they haven't seen a butterfly for years.
managed reintroductions are not a crackpot idea at all...
but..abandoning semi-pets into the wilderness is just straight up animal cruely.
These animals seem to be (at least partially) domesticated, so dumping them like this is animal cruelty. The lynx case is already being investigated with this in mind.
These animals seem to be (at least partially) domesticated, so dumping them like this is animal cruelty. The lynx case is already being investigated with this in mind.
