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My money is on it being back in service in October 2022 ready for winter 2022/23. Anyone care to join the sweepstake?
Also just to say that comparing the cost of removing and scrapping with repairing is pretty pointless. It will have to be removed and scrapped at some point when its useful life is over, so that cost can't be avoided in the long run. That has nothing to do with whether it's worth spending £xxx million pounds repairing it and then running it at a loss for the next 20 years.
Yes, but the cost can be offset against the cost for the removal of significant amounts of egg from many HIE faces.
Oh dear, personally I'd go for the removal option!
For an extra £3m plus the cost of the replacement?
We all know how these things go, it'll end up costing £15m to fix it.
It'll be good for another 5 years then it'll get condemned!
Just get the Edinburgh Tram peeps on it, or the Hinkley Point C brigade. Sorted.
So if they remove it the daily cost for 17 years is around £650 of capital...
FFS.
We all know how these things go, it’ll end up costing £15m to fix it.
It’ll be good for another 5 years then it’ll get condemned!
I fear that this is bang on the money.
I have heard of plans for a gondola up from the hayfield @ Glen More. Not sure how realistic it is, but that would be ambitious.
There is no logical in trying to make a cost case repair vs removal. Regardless of how much it costs, it will have to be removal at some point eventually anyway. So, if there is is a choice between gondola, chairlift or repair then the £13m should be ignored.
Needs to be removed and a proper operations executive put in to manage the revitalisation of the mountain. All the pie in sky plans for mtb etc should be between the day lodge and glenmore not further up the hill. A proper gondola would be an epic add with a couple of detachable chairlifts. But that’s a lot of investment. Whole thing has been killed by borderline fraudulent business behaviour.
It is the latest installment in a 20 year saga of how not to do things. The multiple and multilayered failures are incredible, and the fact that no one has been held to account is unbelievable. Another layer of outrage is the same muppets keep resurfacing to allow their wisdom and flawed decision making to wreak more havoc.
HIE aren't fit for purpose - neither is the train itself. Even if it's repaired you've still got the problem of keeping the access road clear... and in fact the track itself. And just to * things up completely they ripped the Ciste chairlift out.
As others have said a kluster* of truly epic proportions.
Get all infrastructure of the mountains. Same goes for the Nevis range chairlift!
Nah. I'd rather they laid a proper tarmac/concrete road up to the Ptarmigan. It would likely cause less erosion than the current gravel track and would make servicing the restaurant etc a lot easier. Part of the reason the funicular was so expensive to build (and will be to remove) was the constraint on vehicular construction traffic and the need to photograph, catalogue, remove and then replace every boulder, stone and bit of plant life.
Coire Cas is a very small part of the Cairngorm Mountains and an even smaller part of the CNPA. Most of the rest of the Park has been reduced to a wet upland desert through over-stocking of deer and its use as a grouse farm. Environmentalists simply see the ski area as an easy target while ignoring the big picture. There's also an elitist part of the hillwalking / mountaineering lobby who think that the high hills should be reserved for them and their ilk who will undertake a long expedition to explore them rather than accept the fact that day-trippers can drive up and walk into the Northern Corries or onto the plateau.
Well said Scotroutes.
>Coire Cas is a very small part of the Cairngorm Mountains and an even smaller part of the CNPA. Most of the rest of the Park has been reduced to a wet upland desert through over-stocking of deer and its use as a grouse farm.<
This.
Not to mention the thousands of miles of LRT bashed across the CNP and most of the Highlands with not a jot of planning permission. Rode the Fungle and Firnmouth for the first time in years recently and was staggered by the sheer scale of new road building up there now. Controlled heather grazing and associated road networks as far as the eye could see.
I’m with Scotroutes on this. The ski area is a very small area on the edge of the Cairngorms. I’m all for avoiding development in the vast majority of the Cairngorms, but making use of this area for all makes a lot of sense. I think it will have minimal impact and I really don’t see it as being the thin edge of the wedge. Deer and grouse, and the bulldozed access tracks they seem to bring, are a far bigger issue than the ski area.
It's alright, they're going to get a piste basher with a cab to take folk up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50040802
You couldn't make it up.
(and neither will anyone be able to this winter!)
Really?
Ffs
And pisten bullys never, ever dig through and destroy the underlying soil. Oh no. Suppose they’ll operate it like the glacier bus at Saas fee, which was so pleasant. As Matt says. FFS.
How about minimalist lightweight funicular "carriages" - open air, obvs., good insurance and a squad of lawyers? HIE are pretty Teflon anyway.
Seriously though, I would WALK to the base of the Cas/M1 if it was running. My kids would struggle though. We have been season pass holders for the last few years at CG, but this year will probably do Nevis or Glencoe.
That's a ****in expensive taxi.
The condition of the UK's highest railway was "disappointing for its age", according to a newly-released engineers report.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50508800
Interesting choice of language.
is the winterhighland forum down???
Is there somewhere you can voice your disapproval of the potential repair of the railway?
As it looks like this is the route they are wanting to take, from reading the BBC link!
Meanwhile, it has also announced it was making preparations for public consultation on a new masterplan for the Cairngorm Mountain resort.
Which, presumably, will involve tearing up many of the original planning conditions placed on it to protect the environment around the site.
Which, presumably, will involve tearing up many of the original planning conditions placed on it to protect the environment around the site.
One can only hope.
Is there somewhere you can voice your disapproval of the potential repair of the railway?
As it looks like this is the route they are wanting to take, from reading the BBC link
Sure. As a resident of the area you can join the Aviemore and Glenmore Community Trust who will represent the views of the community. The AGM is on Thursday, so maybe not too late to get onto the committee.
!
Sorry scotroutes, based in Bathgate!
To me this is a really difficult conundrum and the interests of locals and of those who want to protect this area clash badly
I have no doubt that if there was to be a new ski resort in scotland and cairngorm had not been previously developed it would not be allowed to be developed now - but we are where we are. I would much rather the funicular had never been built or that the alternative plan had been built ( remove the access road, funicular goes from lower and stops lower)
The Cairngorm ski resort brings a lot of money to the area - not just directly but indirectly.
So - what do we do now? Try to lesson the environmental impact of the ski area whilst trying to balance its need to stay open for the local economy? With all that in mind I will see what the new plan is. see how well it balances the conflicting interests and above all see if the future for Cairngorm is sustainable in all its meanings.
Edit - the highlands needs employment and a use for the land otherwise it just becomes a park for tourists.
Is there somewhere you can voice your disapproval of the potential repair of the railway?
It is owned by HIE, so up to the Scottish government to decide whether to pay for it. Let your local MSPs know what you think.
Giant Scum - on what basis do you object?
Edit – the highlands needs employment and a use for the land otherwise it just becomes a park for tourists.
You say that like those things are mutually exclusive.
They can be and often are. Look at the protests to any development. This is one example of this. From an ecological point of view the funicular is a "wrong" as is the whole ski area on Cairngorm. Its debate thats been going on for decades. But close the ski resort and damage Aviemore leading to a loss of jobs in an area that needs those jobs.
Cairngorm is a unique little bit of ecosystem. The ski area and the funicular damage this.
Which has a higher priority? the fragile and internationally important ecosystem or the needs of the local community?
I think there has to be found some solution that can balance the two. I don't agree with Scotroutes about the planning restrictions needing to go but I do accept its a valid argument and that the arbitrary and sometimes stupid nature of them leads to ridiculous situations. This is why I would have prefered the funicular to not go as high on the mountain. But that ship has sailed - we are where we are.
The ski area must remain now - there is no way back much as I and others might wish it. Indeed there is a strong argument for using the funicular to increase and improve access. the organisers of the ski area must look at the money raised in summer from the Fort William gondola from mountainbikers and wish that were them.
So to protect the plateau is a "code of conduct" and education the key? allow more development in the lower slopes and in some areas and trade that off against increased protection for other areas?
Lets just hope that out of all this comes a sustainable and sensible solution that everyone can be equally happy or unhappy with
Cairngorm is a unique little bit of ecosystem. The ski area and the funicular damage this.
AFAIK there is nothing unique about Coire Cas. If you want, you can go back over this thread and dig out the figures regarding just how much of the CNP and what %age of the Cairngorms Massif Coire Cas makes up.
Folk go all misty eyed about the heyday of Scottish skiing and how it'll never return to the pre-Freddy Laker days. We now know how well that's working out for the environment.
Its a part of a fragile and unique ecosystem scotroutes. A significant part? Thats the area for debate. To some its only a small bit and not the most important bit so to develop it further is of little loss. To others its the thin end of the wedge to develop it further and any loss of this habitat is something to be fought
I'll sit in the middle and hope for a pragmatic and reasonable solution that balances the various differing attitudes
I do agree with you that there is a stench of Nimbyism about this debate. There is no pint in harking back to what it was like predevelopment of the ski area - we are starting from now.
Personally? Rebuild the funicular and and use measures to mitigate risks to the habitat. Lets get a plan that can be used for a long time and that is a compromise everyone could live with. Find a way to use it in summer for mountainbiking for the income that would bring without causing more damage to the ecosystem or that has a tradeoff in other ways
Scotroutes - the ecosytem I am referring to is only a small part of the park - its the high areas with the arctic / alpine moorland habitat on which the ski area does intrude a little. Home to endangered plant and animal species
When does the new red route from Summit to Loch go in?
I'm digging it on Sunday
tj I can only see it costing a lot more than the quoted £10m to fix it!
Only for it to fail again 5 years down the line.
Get rid of it and invest in an alternative uplift, Aonoch Mor style gondola would be good from the Hayfield.
Ta Giant.
I object to the premise that £10m to fix it is better than £13m to remove it, on the basis that it will have to be removed at some point anyway, so you can't actually offset one cost against the other!
Of course, one of the reasons it was so expensive to build, and will be to repair and remove, is that there are restrictions on the use of vehicles in the ski area. That necessitated an overhead gantry for lugging materials up and down the hill (and the need to photograph/geolocate every boulder so it could be replaced exactly where it was after construction). They should just put a big tarmac/concrete roadway up to the Ptarmigan. It would probably cause less erosion in the long run - AND you could take road bikes up 🙂