Forum menu
Have they closed their Facebook page
shame I quite enjoyed the show updates whilst sat in snow free cambridge!
It's worth saying that the weather has been pretty good this last few weeks....
It’s worth saying that the weather has been pretty good this last few weeks….
**strokes chin**
For peoples information, a response team has been formed with representatives from all the interested parties to try to mitigate the impact of the closure of the train. No real output yet but should be seeing some results over the next couple of weeks. It’s not going to be brilliant but it’s a case of making the best of the situation. As I understand it, the Ptarmigan will be open to provide at least toilet facilities etc. There will be a ski school operating and the Snow Factory is being put in place which will help with lower slopes
i think the disappearance of the website should have been temporary
The uplift review which was linked to is really positive in that it sets out a vision for the future which HIE fully supports, but two things to note:
1) It is a vision not a plan, and clearly some of the proposals would not work, like the MTB track positioning. It should be treated as a start point for detailed investigation and proposals
2) There is currently zero funding in place for this, although with HIE supporting it, some funds would hopefully be made available over time
A recent post on Winterhighland seems to indicate that not all of the stakeholders are on board. Natural Retreats, the owners, seem to object to the inconvenience of travelling to meet with others who want to help sort out the mess. I might have read it wrong though.
The Facebook and Twitter pages have gone down. The last update on the Cairngorm website is from 11 October. The season nominally started on 1 November. Not that we could use last year's passes for 25% of the year.
We have 4 Season Passes in the household, and my emails appealing for information go unanswered.
There is one way and one way only out of this mess. Alan Winterhighland (mackay?) Should be put in charge of the whole thing with power to hire and fire whoever he pleases. The man is a god who walks this earth
He has been pointing out perfectly accurately what is wrong with cairngorm management scum and everything he said for the last n years has come to pass.
Just read some of his wailings about the removal of the ciste chair recently and look at where that shower of fools have landed us now with its removal.
Alan Mackay for COO of cairngorm ski cetre
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46389488
Gone into administration, not sure how that will effect passes already sold
Not often that a company going to the wall looks like a good thing
I reckon I can write off the cost of two season passes then. Bastards.
Hope something can be done to save the jobs though.
Ooof not good. I suspect that’ll be the end of the proposed snow factories to open up the lower tows. Bye bye season. Let’s just hope the interested amateurs don’t get offered anything rash.
I guess it’s all downhill from here 🙁
Slippery slope, that's for sure.
Ooof not good. I suspect that’ll be the end of the proposed snow factories to open up the lower tows.
Err, the Snow Factory unit is already installed and is being funded by HIE. Nothing announced today will affect that.
Hope something can be done to save the jobs though.
Yeh, that’s my concern. I don’t hold much hope for this season but if anything good can come of this I really hope it does.
I do see a lot of chat about how the Coe and Shee are run. But how do they compare as local economic models?
Things there have been on the slide for some time, you would be forgiven for thinking the management team were piste.
Interesting take on things here - http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2018/11/30/the-immediate-consequences-of-cairngorm-mountain-ltd-going-bust
Maybe FCS are the saviours we are looking for.
Why would anyone want to take on a ski resort in Scotland? The key infrastructure has the potential to require a significant cash injection just to get it working again, winters are getting warmer and wetter and no matter how you package it, it is easier for folk to fly to the Alps than for anyone down south to head to Aviemore. I say this as someone who loves the area but as a commercial proposition, my accountant head is hearing alarm bells ringing.
For those who have bought season passes, I would advise that you contact your bank as you may be able to recover your money if you have paid by credit or debit card.
Regarding the opinion piece, I would suggest the the author is letting their passion cloud their judgement. There is no obligation other than a very tenuous implied moral one for HIE to pay off creditors. What the likes of House of Fraser and other recent failures should teach us that unsecured creditors are unlikely to see much, if any, return of funds for goods supplied and services rendered.
As for a community buy out, the challenge will come from being able to run the operation without running up potentially significant losses. Even if they get it for free and assuming that the funicular is repaired at no cost to them (again not something I would think likely), it will require a cold, hard look at the long term financial viability of the mountain.
For local businesses and customers, the future of the mountain at this point looks bleak. My only advice would be to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
The funicular (as with all the assets) belongs to HIE so they'll either have to fix it or take it out and replace it with other uplift - or close Cairngorm Mountain.
Hi Scotroutes.
Just to add another buggeration factor, the funicular was part funded with European Money. If the funicular closes for good, if memory serves, those funds could be subject to being payable back to Europe. I understand that the operative period is 25 years.
The big challenge will come with trying to attract back those visitors who go elsewhere in the absence of the funicular. I like Cairngorm Mountain but without the funicular running, who is going to go to Aviemore when they could go to the other four Scottish resorts or abroad? I sincerely hope the issues with the track aren't as bleak as painted but if the funicular is out of action for the season, it will be an incredibly hard sell to get those visitors back.
Cheers
Sanny
Why would anyone want to take on a ski resort in Scotland?
Surely it's a resort, that offers attraction and activity summer and winter? I would have thought that summer earns more than winter, if it's done well..?
I think I read somewhere that there as many summer visitors as in winter. A summer ticket is cheaper than a snow sports one though.
An increase in summer footfall may be possible if the mtb side can be developed and restrictions on access outwith the summit buildings could be eased.
Rubbish situation though. There must be a good will element which will need to be taken into account with the season passes though - especially for locals or longer term damage is inevitable,
A summer ticket is cheaper than a snow sports one though.
And no ski patrol, no snow clearance or movement, no lifties etc. Lower cost, but much lower overheads surely.
Well, I am booked for New Year in Aviemore, snow sports isn’t the be all and end all.
good somethingion of the issues and background on radio scotland out of doors program here (starts about 30 mins in)
The big challenge will come with trying to attract back those visitors who go elsewhere in the absence of the funicular.
Not really, at least not in winter. If everyone heads to the other resorts then they’ll be unbearably busy, so figures that when all resorts open again that the crowds will spread out
An increase in summer footfall may be possible if the mtb side can be developed and restrictions on access outwith the summit buildings could be eased.
The whole reason so many people were vehemently opposed in the first place to the funicular despite the stringent access restrictions to protect the plateau environment was because they knew that as soon as an operator ran into financial problems, there would be pressure (likely successful) to ease them to save jobs.
A view, a brew & a loo. I’d hazard that a large majority of folk that use the furnicular in summer are not interested in venturing more than 200m from the Ptarmigan. You could have controlled access to the proper summit for the <20% capable and interested in doing so. Certainly worth considering. The natural heritage politics and climate have moved on significantly since the turn of this century. Access now trumps protection in all but the most sensitive of areas, and rightly so IMHO.
You could have controlled access to the proper summit for the <20% capable and interested in doing so.
Ranger led walks have been available for some time.
Ranger led walks have been available for some time.
Aye, perhaps something slightly less regimented and needed to be booked in advance might be better though.
Just noticed FB page has sprung back to life with status updates on snow...
Where has all the money gone? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47638092
https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/mountain-of-debt-was-left-by-bust-firm-174363/
out of interest (I figure folks who know would be on here) - can the railway be used to shuttle trails at all? 400m of height gain is a healthy amount
No IIRC. There is a huge dispute about the use of the mountain at all for skiing and bikes because its a very rare habitat. Part of the deal that allowed the funicular to be built was that it wouldn't be used for walker access to the plateau and not for bikes.
I think MTBing might have been a part of the plan to revitalise it / create more profits
There are (maybe were) guided rides which used the train for uplift. Pretty tame, but sketchy gravel track type terrain IIRC.
The whole access from the top using the train needs rethinking IMHO.
out of interest (I figure folks who know would be on here) – can the railway be used to shuttle trails at all? 400m of height gain is a healthy amount
It's a possibility. For instance, some decent (but short) trails could be made available from mid-station down, inside the existing Coire Cas ski area. Of particular interest (and being considered) would be to continue the trails down to Glenmore, using a vehicle for uplift back to the base car park. Trails here would descend through the forest so would be a lot less visible and routing could be more imaginative. However the forest belongs to FCS, not HIE so there are land ownership and management issues in achieving this. The Community Trust have it on the radar though.
The consultants engaged by HIE last Autumn came up with a plan for MTB trails from the top station down to the base station. These would use the funicular for uplift. However, it has been pointed out that using "Windy Ridge" as the descent route maybe wasn't the cleverest option.
Scotroute - am I right in that the original deal said no bikes to be taken on the funicular?
I should also say that HIE have not yet published the engineers report on the funicular faults. Although they have committed to having the funicular back up and running, no one believes they have infinitely deep pockets. It's perfectly possible that it may have to be removed. Newer chairlift designs can operate in higher wind speeds than the old ones at Cairngorm could and are part of the "master plan" either way.
Of course there are also those that would like to see the whole facility closed down and all infrastructure (including the roads and car parks) removed. None of them stood for, or attend meetings of, the Community Trust so their opinions carry a lot less weight locally.
Scotroute – am I right in that the original deal said no bikes to be taken on the funicular?
Who cares? As already pointed out, there have already been led rides down the mountain using the funicular for uplift.
None of them stood for, or attend meetings of, the Community Trust so their opinions carry a lot less weight locally.
Interesting. It does rather make the antis out to be nimbys.
Its a tricky balance IMO. No doubt cairngorm is a very special place habitat wise and no doubt in my mind that the ski station would not be built there now. However it is there, it brings money and employment.
NISEBYs really.
This, from the Community Trust website, pretty much sums up my thoughts on that matter.
At just 5.98 Km2 the Cairngorm Ski Area occupies just 0.13% of the Cairngorms National Park Area. Scottish Natural Heritage classify 1572 Km2 of land in the National Park as Wild Land and 15197Km2 of Scotland as a whole. It's not realistic to argue that the northern corries are making a huge impact on the availability of wild land in Scotland, and their economic and social impact certainly justify the development of 6km of already developed land. Whilst the Northern Corries are beautiful, their popularity largely stems from ease of access, the northern corries present a unique opportunity for visitors and the less able, to experience the mountain environment.
The finances behind all this are murky at best not to mention the somewhat dubious tendering process. You have turkeys voting for christmas here as the proj mgr at the time is now the HIE chief exec....What is criminal is that they were assessed as a going concern and knew they would leave local businesses out of pocket.
HIE have a lot of questions to answer for sure. Their budget has been cut by £10 million for next year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49176772
Repairing the Cairngorms' funicular will cost less than removing and scrapping it, its owner Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE) has said.
Looks like at least some progress is being made. Any hope of it running this winter are completely gone though.
There was never any danger of it running this year of for the 2019/20 winter. They are not talking with any certainty about 2020/21.