[Closed] Cabinet making - jointing

Pocket screw jig.

EDIT: It's not "cheap" of course, but it will save you lots of time, and unless you want shexy dovetails on display everywhere, it'll sort you out pretty well. I'm seeing loads of kitchen fitters building their kitchens on site using them these days.

I really want one, but don't have enough use for it. Might see if I can hunt one down second hand.

I built 4 of these stools/tables/storage things for the beach hut at the weekend.

Pocket holes were used but I found I had to be very careful with the 12mm ply as there isn't a lot of thickness of material to play with.

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I didn't spend a huge amount of time on the finish - just two coats of varnish with a rub down in between - but the ply comes up really well.

I got a UKJ jig from Axminster tools - full kit was about £100 + screws but there's cheaper ones about starting from about £20.

I make a lot of cabinets and I use a Kreg R3 kit that you can get for about £30. You will need the right length screws too. If you want to use it a lot there are all sorts of clamps you can add but none of these are necessary, they just save a bit of time.

I use 15mm and 18mm Melamine faced chipboard (MFC) which you can get in all sorts of shades and finishes and it's available in various widths edged all round. get it [url= http://www.hpponline.co.uk/cat/331/cut-and-edged-mfc ]here.[/url]

For the doors, I use [url= http://auniquechoice.co.uk/ ]these guys[/url] They make them exactly to size and the quality is brilliant. I've used them for £4000 bedrooms and the customers are delighted. Mail me for details and advice.

One thing I would add if you're planning on doing this at all often;

Get a decent plunge type circular saw and rail system.

Great for cutting larger boards and on faced stuff you can do a scoring cut to avoid splintering and then when you do the full cut know it's following the same line.

I got a DeWalt one for about £300 with 2 1.4m guides, clamps and a router attachment.

You have to be doing it a lot to get your moneys worth from a rail saw. I used a cheapish Makita with a home made guide rail for the first couple of years. My Festool is a bit of a step up, but not a game changer.

Home made guide rail is a really useful bit of kit for this sort of thing. Pop into B&Q and get someone other that the Saturday work experience lad to cut you a few strips of wood on their big saw and make up a couple of different length ones.

I guess you're right.

I tend to just buy 'the right tool for the job' on the basis it'll

a) make something I'm doing for pleasure an, errrm, pleasure.

and

b) reckon 'it'll see me out' and I'll get 30 years use out of it at the sort of rate I do stuff like this.

(and, because I can afford to it has to be said)

I bought the saw to fit a kitchen and have done a few jobs with it since - I reckon I've had my money's worth out of it in terms of saved time and not havign to pay people to do things for me.

There are other rail saws available - and quite a few cheaper than the Festool system. Home made rails have their uses, but aren't much good for plunge cuts.

Agree that pocket hole jigs are pretty damn handy. I've got a Kreg one, can't remember the model no. Wouldn't really want to use it on much under 15mm wood though.

I've also got a rail saw, although not a plunge cut one. It requires a bit more thought about how you approach lopping up big sheets to avoid waste and get the kerf in the right place compared to the Festool Plunger I'd played with before, but ultimately it allows for dead straight, fast cuts with minimal faffing.

Money well spent in both cases, and hopefully should last for many years.

For edge jointing, I often use biscuit jointers. Ideal if you have access to sash cramps to glue it all together.

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If not, then I guess a pocket hole jig is a good start. Be careful to pilot well on plywood though, especially cheaper grades as you may find it can split.

I'd go with a dowel jig or biscuit jointer.

The dowel jig is probably cheaper. IIRC biscuits are slightly stronger than a dowel. But you can always stick another dowel in if needed.

[i]I tend to just buy 'the right tool for the job' on the basis it'll

a) make something I'm doing for pleasure an, errrm, pleasure.

and

b) reckon 'it'll see me out' and I'll get 30 years use out of it at the sort of rate I do stuff like this.

[/i]

+1

Also handy I've a huge workshop/outbuilding for it all 🙂

Pocket screw jig.

That's not 'cabinet making', that's just 'screwing bits of plywood together'. 😉 Ok for quick fix/temporary stuff, or for thicker material where your 'client won't see it until it fals apart after you've ****ed off with their money' type jobs. And definitely not a good solution to join 12mm ply. It's a cheap, quick and easy way to do a job, but not the ideal way. I'd use dovetails, done with a Japanese pul saw which is the perfect tool for thinner materials. That way you'd get a good, strong joint, and if done well, one which won't even need any glue. Or you could use some squre stock as corner posts, with groves routed along two adjacent sides, and the ply slotted and glued in place.

Cheers guys, some useful starting points there.

If I use the circ saw I've got with a decent blade instead of the cheap one it came with, will I get a decent enough edge to cut the boards to size and just be able to plane / sand to finish it off?

stoffel - Member
...waffle...

You're correct of course, technically it's not joinery in the purest form, but I'm just trying to tailor my answer to the OP's needs. Do you know of stuff that's fallen apart post-invoice when people have used pocket screws? Just wondering as the guys I meet that use them speak highly of them. I'm sure you didn't just make it up before doing your Japanese pull-saw routine did you?

Ladders, what circular saw do you have at the moment?

Another vote for a Kreg pocket hole jig.

The kitchen unit in my camper is currently a mess of battens and corner blocks - I envisage the replacement to be much sleeker and tidier using the jig. Plan on using 12mm ply but reading the comments, it sounds like I might prefer to go for 15/18mm.

Do you know of stuff that's fallen apart post-invoice when people have used pocket screws?

Yes. I've repaired enough. 😆

They have their place. In cheap kitchens, and for stuff that doesn't need to be built to last. I can understand the apeal, but I'd not bother with them. I prefer stuff to last. What the OP asked was:

What I'm wondering through is the [b]best[/b] way to make the joins?

And using a pocket screw jig, with 12mm ply, isn't. Sorry, not trying to put you down, I just beleive in stuff being made to last, as there's too much rubbish about these days.

Anyone mentioned a comb joint, dear easy to make a jig, much liie dovetailing only easier.

You ought to take pictures of those kind of failures. I would.

They have their place. In cheap kitchens, and for stuff that doesn't need to be built to last.

That's unusual. It's quite expensive ones where I've seen them being used, where suitable. Anyway, fairy nuff, I'll just have to take the word of the folk I've met and whose work I've seen, rather than someone on the net who could be bullshitting. Not trying to put you down or anything. I'm sure you'll understand though. 🙂

A biscuit jointer is the way forward for neat invisible joints. On 12 mm you would need the 4mm spacer on the fence and use No.0 size biscuits. That would mean the glue joint would not be super strong.
I've just bought myself a Festool Domino XL basically to do the job of a mortice and tenon on doors and windows; big investment though!

Those Fezzie domino machines do look awesome. 🙂

If I use the circ saw I've got with a decent blade instead of the cheap one it came with, will I get a decent enough edge to cut the boards to size and just be able to plane / sand to finish it off?

A good blade, (and if the saws bearing are good) will give a decent enough edge. If you make up your own rail (there are how-tos on youtube, all of which are made buy rambling ditherers who take 15 minutes to describe something that only takes 3 minutes to make) the as well as keeping the saw straight they also act as a splinter guard and keep the cut nice an clean.

I'd also mention that theres ply and ply - and if you want to see the wood and varnish it then theres a lot of garbage out there. A lot of of so called hardwood ply is only hardwood faced ply and the majority of the board is just any old garbage, full of voids, mismatched colours and spliced plys (so the exposed cut edge can be very ugly) and often a weird purple glue that shows though the cigarette-paper thin face ply.

If you can find it then Birch Ply is a favourite - a nice pale colour and the plys are a uniform width. If you find a nice batch of it then thicker 18mm softwood plys can be nice. They're not a slick / fine finish boards but the have the same uniform plys, some batches are quite knotty and gappy but you occationally get some pretty handsome boards that you can make something quite chunky and fun.

You used to get Douglas Fir (good one face) faced ply which was really cheap; sadly no longer.
Birch ply is great stuff (though not flat enough for wardrobe doors etc) and you can get 18mm long grain with knot patches on both faces (BB/BB)for £40. One knot free face (B/BB)brings the cost up to £70!

Anyone mentioned a comb joint, dear easy to make a jig, much liie dovetailing only easier.

A comb or 'finger' joit will work perfectly in this situation. Leigh make all sorts of jigs including dovetail. Expensive though. Axminster's own jig system is a lot cheaper, but not as flexible.

Hi I've been a furniture maker for a number of years now and the best tool you could buy yourself would be a router which is a great tool to use

It can be used for cutting straight lines , curves ,shapes ,mouldings just by changing the cutter and using/making jigs

Re joints for units consider the following

Dowels
Biscuit joints
Rebate joint (no cramps req'd)
Housing
Butt/screw joint
Pocket screw joint as mentioned (I've only used them a few times)

I would also consider using 18mm thick panels MDF , ply or chipboard rather than 12mm thick panels
For several reasons , stronger , if rebating gives a larger glue area , can be screwed into (screw has more to bite into) , use of Blum style hinges can be used on the doors

I think it just depends on the item being made as to the thickness required ,18 mm will always be my choice to start with

Send me an email and I can elaborate on some techniques and send you some pictures of joints for units which are simple to make with a router and the correct cutter

Check out the www and youtube re routers Trend being a great cutter manufacturer

Hope that helps

Graham