Buying and renovati...
 

Buying and renovating a rural property on the Spanish side of the Pyrenees

Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Tracey - If you get a minute, message me before you leave 🙂

Tony - six six six zero one nine six five seven

Cheers.


 
Posted : 23/09/2018 9:27 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Code for Spain is (+34) btw 🙂


 
Posted : 23/09/2018 11:30 am
Posts: 9901
Full Member
 

Hi Tony

Sent you a text


 
Posted : 23/09/2018 4:47 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Was good to meet up Tracey - and great to see Abigale up on the stage!

Good luck for next week.

T.


 
Posted : 23/09/2018 10:31 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Friday was Practice day for the Pros and Challenge day for the non-pro entrants.

The "Challenge" consisted of three stages, 2 off road and a third which started on top of one of the walls of Ainsa Castle and rode through the streets and down the many steps of Ainsa Old Town.

This section was also the Prologue stage for the Pros. . . .

The Challenge was tough and the day was hot. The atmosphere was amazing!

We started off the morning watching in the town of Boltana, which is a few km's from where we live.

Bikes everywhere and riders making last minute adjustments to their bikes . . . .

(Zona Zero Route 3 Light crosses this bridge in the opposite direction to these riders. I ride it a few times a week and I've never seen it like this!)


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:44 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

This was the bottom of one of the descents on Stage 1 of the Challenge.

About half way through the stage, a tricky switchback descent.

(This is actually part of Zona Zero Route 10)


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:47 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Stage 2 of the Challenge includes this drop. I caught some nice vids of riders coming down here which I’ll post later.

(This is part of Zona Zero Route 5)


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:49 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

The third and final stage of the Challenge, which is also the Prologue for the Pros, started on the Castle Wall!


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:56 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Racing though the cobbled streets of the Old Town, Ainsa!


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:59 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

What can I say? “Be the Leopard!” … .


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 3:59 pm
Posts: 119
Full Member
 

Really enjoyed reading this Tony, thank you for detailing your adventures. Although I wish I'd read it a few weeks ago as we've just got back from a weekend in Ainsa watching the EWS. We probably, unwittingly, walked past you a few times....

We're just over a couple of hours away from you on the French side of the mountains and after this weekend we're really looking forward to coming back and getting some riding in, perhaps even making use of your guiding services.

Absolutely gorgeous part of the world and even got us doubting our choice of SW France as home!


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

It was great wasn't it?

I'm still sorting through photos and vids, so will be a few more updates on here yet.

If you do come back, get in touch and we'll chat 🙂

T.


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 4:46 pm
Posts: 119
Full Member
 

We will definitely be back and will certainly get in touch.

Just got to up the fitness levels a bit first.....


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 5:12 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Fitness helps - but we do have some easier trails around here too. It's not all crazy Enduro

🙂


 
Posted : 24/09/2018 6:51 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

EWS Day 1 - Bottom of Stage 3. Close enough that I got covered in dust a few times!


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:20 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Timing Point at the bottom of Stage 3.


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:20 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Sam Hill punctured coming down one of the Stages. One of his closest rivals, Martin Maes, who had come down before him, was still at the stage finishing area when he came in and he immediately set about helping Sam to save as much time as possible.

This is how we roll!


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:21 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Day 1 Stage 4 had some nice drops and a fast finish . . .


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:21 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Over the finish line and signing autographs. Sam Hill and his buddy 🙂


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:22 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

At the end of the day it was Fiesta time!


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:24 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Where we live and what we do.

EWS Zona Zero Weekend Highlights . . . .


 
Posted : 26/09/2018 8:25 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Ainsa, which is the town around which the Zona Zero MTB trails have been created, has been voted a “Rural Tourism Capital” 🙂

Ainsa, and the areas surrounding it, have so many things to see & do that are spread over such a large area that even on a “busy” day you can hardly see anyone!

Mountains and amazing views, Abandoned villages, medieval Castles & Towns and over 1000 km of MTB trails …

We really are very happy to be living in such a beautiful area.

The people behind this really have done well!


 
Posted : 04/10/2018 7:42 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Mrs Spekkie and I have taken a new and quite significant step on our "Big Adventure" 🙂

After a year of living on The Farm with Ramon & Rosa, which was fun & interesting to say the least, we have now moved 5km "down the hill" from Guaso to the pretty little town of Boltaña and into an apartment of our own.

We're still close enough to easily carry on with whatever work we can do on our own dream property, but after a lot of consideration and with some "from an outside point-of-view" help from friends here, we came to the conclusion that we really needed to be able to offer some accommodation to people here asap.

My MTB guiding and her "picnics" have been going well - and now we are in a place that allows us to easily offer B&B to visitors.

It is nice to have our own space again, even as fond as we are of Ramon & Rosa, and were looking forward to hosting visitors and showing them this special part of the world.

Of course Rosa cried because 5km away is just soooo far away. But we've seen them every day since we took the keys to our own place and actually they're ok. They know where we are and they know we'll be back, hopefully soon, and into our own place as their neighbours.


 
Posted : 06/10/2018 8:34 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Rode my first Spanish MTB race last Sunday. It was a cracker!

I'll post about it on the Bike Forum . . .


 
Posted : 11/10/2018 9:39 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

I've been doing some more exploring. This time I'm checking out some of the routes the Enduro World Series used when it was here . . .

Took a ride up a Pista (Stone Track) that goes "the back way" from the small town of Boltaña where we're living now, up towards the village of Campodarbe.

When the EWS was here the other week they climbed this pista on one of their stages. The views, as always, are amazing.


 
Posted : 18/10/2018 8:19 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

<div data-redactor="1">We've been in our new place for a couple of weeks now and Mrs Spekkie has now got it just how she likes it :-)</div>
<div data-redactor="1"></div>
<div data-redactor="1">The place was rented "part furnished" but we've bought some of our own bits & pieces out of storage to finish it off. Living on the farm with Ramon & Rosa was fun but it really is nice to have our own space and our own "stuff" around us again.</div>
<div data-redactor="1"></div>
<div data-redactor="1">Last night we had some friends around for dinner - including a new Dutch friend who's just got back from walking the Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage route (800km across northern Spain!) and Mrs Spekkie was able to cook and look after everyone from her own kitchen.</div>
<div data-redactor="1"></div>
<div data-redactor="1">A lovely evening, food & wine and amazing stories of what it's like to walk 800km is 5 weeks . . .</div>
<div data-redactor="1"></div>
<div data-redactor="1">Now the Camino has been bumped up our "to-do" list a bit :-)</div>


 
Posted : 18/10/2018 6:54 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Today was a lovely sunny late summer/early autumn day and this lunchtime I was out testing some new bits of route in preparation for guiding people.

Took the first pic up on the Ainsa Castle wall, then rode down a flight of steps afterwards. Second pic is a view point looking north towards the Pyrenees and France … beautiful as always.


 
Posted : 22/10/2018 9:00 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

On Friday we did a local walk up to the village of Sieste and back. A nice route, not too hilly, fully marked out and on good footpaths. Starts and finishes on the bridge at "La Gorga" (a popular river swimming spot on the edge of town).

The route was deserted and the sun was shining . . . . 🙂


 
Posted : 28/10/2018 9:24 am
Posts: 3747
Free Member
 

 the sun was shining

Long may that continue, we're camping up that way for the puente - cold and clear will do just fine!


 
Posted : 28/10/2018 11:28 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

A couple of days ago I did a nice “local” ride from home which included the Zona Zero Route 5 climb out of the back of Ainsa up to the top of the “Partara”. I’ve ridden it several times - it’s not too long or too technical and there are some nice flat “recovery” segments, but the bits that go up, really do go up.

Great fun and there are several ways back down to try out … . 🙂


 
Posted : 29/10/2018 8:11 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

No shortage of signposts here ….


 
Posted : 29/10/2018 8:12 am
Posts: 13252
Free Member
 

Not jealous .. .


 
Posted : 29/10/2018 1:16 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

After a brief surprise cold snap, the sun is back out again today 🙂

The weather in November is normally very nice - the trees have started to change colour and the first snows have fallen up in the mountains.

Today I'm out testing more routes, finding good picnic-lunch spots and generally putting plans together for some epic days of riding in the Pyrenees.

Love my life!


 
Posted : 01/11/2018 8:13 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

[i]"alpin

Member

Not jealous ... [/i]

🙂


 
Posted : 01/11/2018 8:14 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Looks hideous, flat, boring double track everywhere......

I’m not envious at all.....


 
Posted : 01/11/2018 8:32 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Did a ride from Boltaña today that came along the river, looped through the Ainsa Castle and then climbed up to the "Partara". Wanted to see how much snow had fallen to the north. Low cloud hid most the tops of the mountains, but there's certainly some snow where the peaks were visible.

There are several descents from the Partara so I came down the "Partara Express" first time then did the climb again and came down the descent that was used in the recent Enduro World Series held in Ainsa in September.

Both descents are ace 🙂

Check out the Relive video . . .

https://www.relive.c...ew/g26369463706


 
Posted : 02/11/2018 8:32 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

When the Enduro World Series visited Ainsa in September a Jump was built at the end of Sundays Stage 7.

I see it’s still there  🙂


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:16 pm
Posts: 9901
Full Member
 

I think I gave a big sigh of relief when she finished

[img] [/img]


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 9:58 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

That's the one!

Nice pic.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 12:16 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Last night was a "Pre-Christmas Fiesta" up in the Plaza of Ainsa Old Town.

A big bonfire in the middle of the square to keep everyone warm, buy an empty wine glass for €3 and then you walk around the plaza visiting the 20 odd tables of locally made wine for an evening of wine tasting.

It's a tough job but someone has to do it - we need to learn what we can about the area we live in, including what they drink . . . .

Almost every family around here owns a vineyard of some description and this annual competition is a good opportunity for them to all get together and compare notes. The bottles of wine we taste from are numbered, but only one person knows which number belongs to which farmer - so it's all anonymous until the end.

I was the designated driver . . . .


 
Posted : 16/12/2018 4:29 pm
Posts: 45996
Free Member
 

Sounds better than the p*ss*ng rain and ice, with a Frankie and Benny's here last night....


 
Posted : 16/12/2018 7:49 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Big meal and get together with friends last night - here in Spain they celebrate Christmas Eve more than they celebrate Christmas Day.

They don't start eating until 11pm though and then they see Christmas Day "arrive".

Today it's a big lunch with other friends and then home for a siesta . . . .

Merry Christmas to everyone on STW

Tony & Andrea.


 
Posted : 25/12/2018 9:11 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

There are several Zona Zero routes out of Ainsa - this one heads south up a trail that passes the Vultures Dining Room, heads up to the Partara viewing point and then down the Partara Express!.

People rarely stop and look over their shoulders when they climb this trail, so they miss this view. Part of my job as a guide is to tell people when to stop and look behind them 🙂

#lovemyjob!

Ainsa!


 
Posted : 07/02/2019 8:36 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

After several weeks without my MTB, which is down in Madrid being looked at by "Specialized Spain" after Angel, my mate and LBS spotted a crack in the carbon frame, it sounds like I should be getting it back soon.

Once it's back safe and sound I will post on what happened, what I had to do about it and how long it took. . . . .

Meanwhile, we're road riding and loving the "Early Spring" that Europe seems to be enjoying right now!


 
Posted : 11/03/2019 8:44 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

It's been a while since I posted a proper update on my "Spanish Pyrenees" thread. . . So, here's an update:

We are currently living in the town of Boltaña (pronounced Boltanya) which is 4kms away from the village of Guaso, where our "Project" is, and 6kms from the town of Ainsa which is the center of "Zona Zero MTB Land".

We're renting a three bedroom apartment which gives us plenty of space for ourselves and a spare twin room for friends & family to come and visit us. We plan to rent out the spare room with a breakfast thrown in "Air B&B style" (but not actually through Air B&B) for visitors in the summer.

I'm currently working everyday - splitting my time between one of the local campsites, several local farmers and my MTB guiding. The work is 99% out doors, the weather has been lovely - we have only had 1 wet day in about 9 weeks - and I get to look at the mountains whenever I want to.

We are preparing new paperwork for another trip to the banks regarding a loan for our Project and we are also looking into options based on Private Investment and/or Crowd Funding.

Meanwhile we're living the dream. Loving the food, the people and the weather. Learning the language. Discovering new places and making new friends . . . .

Summer is coming . . . .


 
Posted : 04/04/2019 8:35 am
 ctk
Posts: 1811
Free Member
 

Love this thread, good luck with the loan.


 
Posted : 04/04/2019 8:44 am
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

We're riding Zona Zero again in May, Spekkie. Pena Montesa campsite again. I remember Boltana because we turned right there on a tandem up into the Sierra de Guara in a heat wave a quarter of a century ago - no water for the next 40km IIRC.


 
Posted : 10/04/2019 8:53 am
Posts: 3188
Full Member
 

Planning a trip soon too.


 
Posted : 10/04/2019 9:23 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

This morning the Zona Zero Cycling Club held a Skills Session for the youngsters before heading out for a ride… .

Great to see so many volunteers ready to promote safe cycling 🙂





 
Posted : 27/04/2019 10:45 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Be good to catch up with you if you're around Chris.


 
Posted : 27/04/2019 10:47 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Last Saturday I joined Rafa, Ramon & Tito and help accompany a group of the Zona Zero Cycling Club Juniors on an MTB / Enduro Ride.

We started in Ainsa at the sports center and rode some of Route ZZ-006 “The Trilogy of San Vicente”. The route was clean & dry and the sun was shining - it was a really nice ride.

The youngsters had climbed around 400m by the time we’d finished. I did 550m because I was popping backwards and forwards keeping an eye on them 🙂

They were strong on the climbs and fearless of the descents! They made us adults work hard!

Rafa took several opportunities to stop and explain to the youngsters “what was coming next” and how best to tackle it whenever something a bit tricky came along. He’s a great teacher.

It was a pleasure joining in and helping out and I look forward to the next ride.

Well done to everyone who took part.










 
Posted : 02/05/2019 8:15 am
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

Any recommendations for eating out for a group of 15+, Spekkie? The last time we used the bar in your last photo which was fine but tourist menu and prices. Is there anywhere, perhaps in the lower town, where the locals eat local food at local prices? Is restaurante Carrera (4.5 stars on Booking, local cuisine and one very long table) in Labuerda any good? I could have sent a PM but keeping it public means everyone benefits from your knowledge. 30/5 to 2/6.

Edit: Restuarante Carrera is only open 1:30 - 3:30 according to yellow pages so that's no good.

Hotel Meson were a friendly bunch the last time when we dropped in for a drink. Any idea what the food's like?


 
Posted : 04/05/2019 10:16 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

You're talking about an evening meal? Labuerda is a good few km's north of Ainsa - fine by car but a bit much by bike after a long days riding. Prices there may be a bit cheaper than Ainsa but not by much I shouldn't think.

Down the bottom you have La Parrilla, Odessa 88 and La Creperia which are all ok and possible a bit cheaper than up at the top. I've never eaten at the Meson - it's the most basic of the towns hotels but it might be fine. There's also a Pizza place across the road from the Meson which was reasonable last time I was there.

Locals tend to go to the "Padel" which is a little place on the road that leads out to Camping Ainsa. We've snacked there a few times and it's been fine.....


 
Posted : 09/05/2019 12:04 am
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

Thanks for all that, Spekkie. Labuerda is only 1.9km from the campsite along a track by the river which is about the same as the town via the MTB trail. We'll walk.

Checking them out on the Net now. It turns out that Carrera is open in the evening, yellow pages is wrong. The Meson is edging it, the reviews in French suggest it's what we're looking for.

There's gem a of a review for La Parrilla 😉

"Aussi chaleureux qu'un iceberg. Si vous prenez des tagliatelles aux truffes vous avez en bonus des protéines sous la forme de mouches .. difficile de les distinguer dans une sauce à base de truffes. Établissement à éviter !"


 
Posted : 09/05/2019 12:46 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Sounds like they won't be going back there. I've never had a problem but I'm sure it happens.


 
Posted : 10/05/2019 8:34 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Showing Francisco from Brazil around some of our Zona-Zero trails....

We did a bit of everything, technical climbing, singletrack descending and some Enduro trails, and all the while he was asking me lots of questions about how we came to be here in the Pyrenees and what we think of it.

Francisco was on an e-bike while I was on a normal bike . . . but that’s for a separate post!

He had a great ride, wants to come back again (everyone does) and he showered at our place afterwards because he was traveling straight to Barcelona to meet his daughter.

Good riding with interesting and friendly people on a sunny day in the Pyrenees . . . can't be bad 🙂


 
Posted : 11/05/2019 8:25 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

This little technical section is part of ZZ-018 The Paths of Mondebueno and Madalena.

It’s part of a little 1hr “after work” route I’ve made up from home and i love it!


 
Posted : 12/05/2019 8:37 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Did a couple of road rides last week on the road out towards Los Molinos and San Victorian.

Sunny days and empty roads 🙂


 
Posted : 16/05/2019 8:10 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Last weekend I rode the trails of Zona Zero with Sebastian, a visitor from France. The trails were dry and the sun was shining … .

Spanish was our common language - so “Google Translate” came in useful!


 
Posted : 17/05/2019 10:29 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Riding with Rodney from Zaragoza yesterday on a cracking XC route around the trails of Zona Zero!

We did a bit of everything - some technical climbing, fire roads, singletrack and some pretty demanding descents.

It had been raining, so the trails were slick - but it was great fun.

We climbed around 727m over 32.37km in 2.5hrs of riding …

Today we’re going to do a similar ride … but with a bit more climbing 🙂


 
Posted : 18/05/2019 9:12 pm
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

You have to give the numbers, Spekkie. 😉 We've got 5+, 12, 4+, 13 (including v2) and 6 down for our visit.


 
Posted : 18/05/2019 9:17 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

2nd Day of riding with Rodney yesterday.... and the sun was out 🙂

We did another cracking XC route with more technical singletrack climbing and some pretty tricky descents.

Today we climbed 728m over 29.85km in 2.5hrs of riding….

We actually climbed 1m more yesterday than on Friday and rode for 16 seconds longer - how’s that for consistency?

The View from the Top . . . .


 
Posted : 19/05/2019 9:10 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

My last day of riding with Rodney from Zaragoza today.

He’s an American married to a Spaniard and he’s lived here for 30 years. He has a great sense of humour and is about the same fitness as me, so it’s been great fun.

Today we kept it short & steep and climbed the track from Ainsa up to the Partara summit. The first half of the trail is technical and has a mental gradient - more than 10% in places. The second half of the climb is a bit easier, but only a bit!

The view from the top, which I’ve posted on here before, makes it all worthwhile though and coming down the “Partara Express” is just magic 🙂


 
Posted : 20/05/2019 5:51 am
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

4+ and its variants are great for nipping out when you don't want to be out there man when a storm breaks or have limited time.


 
Posted : 20/05/2019 12:08 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Route 4 is nice. The first few km's have some climbing in them, but nothing too hard 🙂


 
Posted : 24/05/2019 10:20 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

It's a tough job - but someone has to do it!


 
Posted : 24/05/2019 10:22 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

👍


 
Posted : 24/05/2019 10:43 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Got a call at work Thursday morning from a guy who wanted to hire a bike and ride some trails. I was busy until 7pm so we met up just after that and put 25km and 470m of climbing behind us in short order!

Great way to unwind after a day at work 🙂

You will recognise the place names Edukator . . . .


 
Posted : 26/05/2019 8:46 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Friday afternoon and a 3hr Cross Country ride starting from Santa Maria de Buil. It had rained in the morning but the afternoon was dry and warm.


 
Posted : 26/05/2019 8:50 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Taking a break after racing up the climbs with someone who weighs 15kg less than me! 🙂


 
Posted : 26/05/2019 8:52 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

The “Abandoned Villages” of Sobrabe … lonely and overgrown 🙁


 
Posted : 26/05/2019 8:53 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Some amazing cloud formations over the Pyrenees!


 
Posted : 26/05/2019 8:54 am
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

On Saturday I did a Juniors group ride with the Zona Zero Cycling club.

It was a great ride, the youngsters learned a bit about bike maintenance and pumping up tyres before riding out to the “Badlands” for some skills training.

I learned a few things too!

Getting ready....


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 4:53 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Twins!


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 4:54 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Well behaved riders!


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 4:55 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Going down . . .


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 4:56 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

The Badlands . . .


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 4:58 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

👍👍👍👍👍


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 5:15 pm
Posts: 18587
Free Member
 

Variante 5.1, GR 19 near Soto?


 
Posted : 29/05/2019 9:27 pm
Posts: 2029
Full Member
Topic starter
 

That stretch of Badlands is part of the ZZ-007 (Route Bajo Peñas) descent and yes, also part of GR 19.


 
Posted : 30/05/2019 8:50 am
Page 9 / 16