[Closed] buying an automatic as a first car....

I have an automatic Berlingo which I really like which would also be handy for baby/tools etc. It's a bit clunky but it's been super cheap to maintain/MOT etc

Why does he think he can pass quicker in an auto...Not just from one bad experience trying to do a hill start is it?

Likely to be become less of a problem in future with full electric cars, but still likely to cause the odd convenience when borrowing cars or getting a courtesy/hire car.

Might also be worth making sure he understands what the clutch is doing, I know a few who have struggled with clutch control until an instructor took the time to actually explain its function, what it's doing, and why it can cause a stall (or create lots of smoke)

holy trinity of expensive insurance there!
young lad that wasnt sufficiently competent to pass a full test **
astra is highly popular with the yoots so often crashed in mcdonalds car parks
higher power than necessary

id be very surprised if an auto test is easier to pass anyway - testers are human and are bound to be tougher on a young lad attempting to shortcut the process

it will also be horrible to drive cos auto astras universally are rubbish

just do some comparethemarket quotes for the car in question and another for a nissan granny car and the choice will make its self

top tip - get quotes for a qualified driver, provisional driver policys are generally not a good indicator of propoer policy costs as naturally the driver will have dad in the car with him

** not my opinion but of course how the insurer will see it

no, he hasnt had a bad experience, he hasnt had any experience i dont think. he just sees it as one less 'complicated' thing to think about so a better chance of passing if he's got less to think about. ive told him itd soon come naturally, and offered to take him out in my focus but nah, not interested.

i'll pass on the insurance quote tip.

thanks

If he takes the auto test and passes he will be restricted to driving autos only; to drive a manual he will need to take and pass the manual test.
That should be a significant consideration for him.

Edit - for clarity, passing manual test allows the driving of automatics.

It doesn't strike me as a very good reason. And if he ever needs to drive a car belonging to his girlfriend/wife/friend/work/hire/etc he'll be stuffed, as well as paying premiums for a very small pool of autos in the UK.

That said, I've transitioned into a full convert, to the point that it perplexes me why we still mess around with a big clunky stick in the 21st century.

That and with the inception of electric cars, I think this big clunky stick thing will soon be a thing of the past.

Low powered Fabia. Jnr has a manual and is paying lower insurance than his mates, without a black box.

Apart from costs, main reason he got it was smaller blind spots while manoeuvring in car parks

I think he could have a requirement to drive a manual in the future at any point and he is going to be stuffed with an auto only license. Eg on holiday and the hire place has run out of autos, work pool car, a mate gets injured and he has to drive his car, hiring a van.. etc.

Anyway you are right.

I dont think itll be an issue so much I the future with hybrid and electric coming in...

Also top tip on holiday request an auto in the cheapest category and you'll often get a smarter mid range car as they wont have any small cheap autos.

I'd be after a proper auto not a crap automated manual

Did anyone actually read the OP? Did it say 'help me come up with reasons why an automatic is bad'?

Perfect.

I will never buy any car with gears again. Why anyone buys a manual is beyond me nowadays.

I moved to auto 4x4 for off road use a while back and have never looked back.

Maybe he just wants an auto?. Don't blame him. He is right.

I'd look at a Jazz or a focus.

The Nissan note autos used to be shite. Dont know what they're like now

In the whole scheme of learning to drive the gearbox is a tiny part. Most people get the hang of it within a few lessons. And is 2nd nature after a short while.

I'd strongly suggest he tries it first before dismissing it out of hand.

I know some people never get the hang of it but at least they try it first.

Whichever Honda auto is in budget would be my choice. I love autos and would only have them if possible.

No reason to go manual these days. If he wants to change gears himself in the future then get an auto with flappy paddles 😉

Anyhow it frees up his left hand for texting / eating maccys etc 😜

Auto is fine, just a bit more expensive when it goes wrong. There's no reason to have to learn to drive a manual now unless you want to.

As above, some autos are horrible to drive. So are some manuals, my berlingo bite point is somewhere in the 5mm thick cheap carpet +/- 15mm so sometimes 1st and 2nd just don't happen. The rest is like throwing a spanner into the gearbox and seeing what jams.

And TBH I can't drive a good auto so that argument swings both ways too, my brain just doesn't let me 😂. I really need to learn how at some point as I had to move a friend's car once, after about 20 minutes I had to admit defeat because I couldn't figure out what combination of keys, buttons and pedals was supposed to be be needed to start the bloody thing. Then once I got past that I was crawling round because I didn't have the mechanical un-sympathy to rev it and get it to change up 🤣

I'd still do a manual test though. Especially with a job like that where some future job might involve vans which rarely seem to be auto.

I dont get why people see having an auto only licence as a problem these days

Yes autos used to be terrible and the choice was poor but now with VAG groups DSG boxes which are found in the majority of their range your choice is vastly improved

In fact any manufacturer who makes a car with a semi auto box can be driven on an auto licence

From what Ive read as long as it only has two pedals on the floor then its fine

It seems most manufactures are now offering semi auto boxes (Merc,Ford,VW,Audi,Skoda,Seat,Honda etc..)

3.5k will get you a 10 year old 1.6 diesel DSG Golf estate with 112k on the clock

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105112485561?postcode=po36dy&sort=price-desc&include-delivery-option=on&advertising-location=at_cars&make=VOLKSWAGEN&transmission=Automatic&price-to=3500&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&radius=1500&page=2

I dont get why people see having an auto only licence as a problem these days

Because you still pay a price premium to buy an auto - as someone with a wife with an auto license (offset by her PIP and blue badge, obviously).

We had to buy a manual for Jnr to learn in. Yes, the world is going hybrid and electric, but for the next 10 years at least, it will be cheaper for him to buy manual cars

A 2.0 will be extremely expensive to get insurance for a (assuming) 17/18 year old. It might not even be possible.

I'd avoid dual clutch autos if you want cheap to repair too.

"I have an automatic Berlingo which I really like which would also be handy for baby/tools etc. It’s a bit clunky but it’s been super cheap to maintain/MOT etc"

I had a Berlingo a few years back for a couple of months. A horrible thing that cost more to insure than the Forester S turbo that preceded it...

Interesting discussion. Junior OTS is going to learn to drive this summer. The easiest thing for us to do is just put him on the insurance on the zoé. I have a nagging issue that he should really learn in a manual though - might be useful for hiring vans, but other than that i’m struggling to justify buying another car for him. I guess I might buy one for him to learn in and then just punt it.

Because you still pay a price premium to buy an auto – as someone with a wife with an auto license (offset by her PIP and blue badge, obviously).

My manager has to drive an automatic car for medical reasons.

She was recently looking for a new second-hand car with an auto box and she told me about how much more expensive they were. I did not realise that they come at a premium, but I guess that a lot of it is supply and demand when it comes to small engined automatics.

The thing about autos (auto anything in fact) is that it encourages lazy driving. Manual you have to think ahead and plan your gear changes - not just mash the throttle and hang on. And if you're planning ahead for gear changes, hopefully it means you're actually looking at, and assessing the road and the traffic somewhere further ahead than your front bumper.

(the opposite issue is becoming a problem for me - I've yet to drive an auto car that wouldn't be improved by having a manual box, but the kind of car I'd prefer for my next one tend to only come in auto flavour)

well, i was going to show him this to point out the error of his ways, as confirmed by the stw massive, but..... it would appear he may not be being so daft after all then.

id still prefer him to have the choice just for the sake of learning to shift a stick, but like i said in the OP, when does a lad listen to his dad! the test is booked and theres no way he'll change his mind now.

yes insurance will be a consideration so im advising him to get a smaller engine (hes 24 this year by the way). interesting that you diss the nissan note auto, so ill have a look see if i can see a honda for sale somewhere.
if not, are the astras a reasonable bet with an auto engine? or should he really stick to japanese if he wants to stack the odds in his favour for reliability, repairs and the like?

thanks

The thing about autos (auto anything in fact) is that it encourages lazy driving.

This is rubbish, tbh. There's plenty to think about whilst driving an auto, having to also faff about with gears etc is just pointless and distracting. And before anyone says 'well I can do it just fine' so can I as I did for 20 years. However, the less pointless stuff you have to think about the more you can concentrate on the things you really do need to concentrate on i.e. other road users.

I dont get why people see having an auto only licence as a problem these days

Hire cars where you don't get a choice
Courtesy cars
Hire vans
Other people's cars you have to move or drive
Other vehicles with clutches

All of which I've had to do fairly recently (except for driving a dump truck, that was years ago). We recently had to hire a car for a week, was nearly double the price for an auto.

I’d avoid dual clutch autos if you want cheap to repair too.

Cost of repair is high but they aren't particularly unreliable.

Re. insurance.

1 4 manual Ibiza estate. Pre-test, 4 of us on insurance = £640. Post test £1300.

Just done a quote for 2.0 Astra estate. Pre-test for same people = £980. Post test £3450.

Our Volvo D3 2ltr diesel is cheaper than the Astra (£1950 post test)!

If he takes the auto test and passes he will be restricted to driving autos only;

Not if the examiner passes him for a manual by mistake - happened to a mate about 40yrs ago so prob no longer relevant.

This is rubbish, tbh. There’s plenty to think about whilst driving an auto, having to also faff about with gears etc is just pointless and distracting

+1 got a lovely 8sp auto Peugeot as a hire car on holiday, was a godsend not having to worry about gear changes on twisty mountain roads.

Cost of repair is high but they aren’t particularly unreliable

My dual clutch was unreliable. Intermittent faults and unpredictable performance. At 3.5 years old and 14k miles, the cost of repair was half the cost of the car. And no dealer was willing to do the work as it wasn't showing a specific fault code.

I'd buy another auto. But only a proper torque converter auto.

got a lovely 8sp auto Peugeot

I test drove a Peugeot with the EA8 auto box and it really was lovely. Much smoother than my Skoda. Wanted one in a berlingo but there were none available at the time so went for a manual.

The thing about autos (auto anything in fact) is that it encourages lazy driving. Manual you have to think ahead and plan your gear changes – not just mash the throttle and hang on. And if you’re planning ahead for gear changes, hopefully it means you’re actually looking at, and assessing the road and the traffic somewhere further ahead than your front bumper.

Wow , quite literally the biggest pile of horse shit ive read on the internet this week

The UK has has a weird superiority complex about driving manual transmission cars - be happy to see them gone - I reckon 10 years.

I'd definitely agree with "do the test in a manual then get whatever car you want", being restricted to auto has potential to be a real hassle in future. But there's nothing wrong with owning one.

(I mean, I'm going to rip the autobox out of mine and replace it with a 6 speed, but only because I'm a mental defective)

The thing about autos (auto anything in fact) is that it encourages lazy driving. Manual you have to think ahead and plan y

What a load of drivel.

Autos give you one less thing to do (actually one very big thing less to do) so you can spend more time thinking about driving better.

After having an auto Auris (hybrid work car so had no choice) for a while and also have a big auto estate as my second car I’m sold on them. I got a new job and have got a temporary car while my lease car comes and it’s manual. After driving it a few months I still can’t understand why we still have manual cars.
I’m a big motorsport fan and before I got my first auto I was a dyed in the wool manual gearbox guy, learn to heel and toe etc.

Now I can’t wait to get out of mine. Long gone are the days when you could have fun in a car and there simply isn’t any advantages in manual boxes unless you like racing on the road but then you’ve broken Rule One.

I’d buy another auto. But only a proper torque converter auto.

Amen to that! The torque converter box in my 1990’s monster estate car has done 190000 miles and still shifts beautifully, lockdown is great etc. I think it’s had 1 fluid change in 24 years and the fluid is still fine!

Since only peasants buy manuals, maybe he's trying to tell you something about yourself 🙂

Might prove awkward in some countries if he ever wants to hire a car and they only have manual versions available.

This is rubbish, tbh

Wow , quite literally the biggest pile of horse shit i've read on the internet this week

What a load of drivel.

I was SOO expecting that. I'm absolutely convinced that the more you, as an equipment operator, are invested in the direct operation of the machinery, the more you'll be aware of the consequences of your actions.
As an example. Auto driver - not paying attention - comes screaming into a corner too late, overbrakes, gets away with it and comes out the other side. The car makes his gears right and he's on his way having noticed nothing.
A manual driver in the same situation will have the engine trying to escape the bonnet sideways at 50rpm and as a result will feel like a bit of a prat. The next corner, somewhat chastened, he'll be more aware and will be looking at the corner to assess when to fit in the gear change or two to make the car exit the corner neatly and faster overall. The gear changes take time, so he has to brake earlier and enter slower. As he's actually looking at the corner, he can spot the cyclist "hiding" in the shadows...

I've been a passenger with too many lazy auto drivers (who treat the brake and throttle as binary devices) to have not noticed this as a habit.

In biking terms, its exactly why I like hardtails over full sus a lot of the time - they punish your line errors; and why I commute on a fixie rather than a normal geared bike - I *have* to plan ahead, risk assess, just plain *think* a hell of a lot more, as "just stopping" is physically much harder work.

(I'd also question - why changing gear is considered such an onerous task? If all you do is drive in stop-start traffic, I can kind of get it - but if so - why are you in the damn car at all rather than riding a bike or taking public transport?)

Plenty of other people above have covered the insurance and choice of car issues, automatics just aren't a British Thing even though a good auto is lovely. I'd also echo the fact it may well constrict his choice of job in the future if he has to drive as part of it, employers are unlikely to take on an auto-only license holder as it restricts vehicle choice.

As for what car to go for I'd look at any of the VAG DSG choices, especially Skoda. Good on insurance and plenty of choice. If you're not up to speed on what to look for with regards to the gearbox issues then pay for an inspection when you've narrowed it down to one car.

With regards to auto's making you a lazy driver:

I don't class then as the lazy option but it does flag two things up to me that I've noticed from a decade of driving auto vans in my old job.
Firstly it can allow some people's minds to wander leading to accidents or more likely temptation to check their phone.
Secondly (and this is especially true for me!) it can lead to a disconnect between your perceived speed and your actual speed. I genuinely think it's a contributing factor to lots of urban speeding that an auto allows you to just press the pedal a bit harder without the brain recognising you're doing 40 in a 30 through knowing what gear you're in and the engine revs. It's far too easy to think you're going slow with an auto at low revs but not know you're a gear higher up the box and going 5-10mph more than you realise. With a manual I know that eg 2000rpm in 3rd is 30mph so any more is speeding etc. Takes me a few minutes to 'learn' a new vehicle and subconsciously count the gear changes the same as shifts on the mountain bike then know my speed without having to glance at the speedo all the time. It's probably an old habit from my racing and track days ages ago that I've kept but it's something I've seen in others too. I know of one ex-colleague who was a liability in an auto van, speeding tickets and crashes, but was fine in a manual one!

Something to think about:

"pass rate for manual cars is 47%, while only 39% pass with an automatic"

Extrapolate what you want from that, but he's less likely to pass automatic only than manual - statistically.

Ref: RAC, RAC Article

The other thing to think about, is most cars sold today are automatic of some sort - DSG, DCT etc.

Secondly (and this is especially true for me!) it can lead to a disconnect between your perceived speed and your actual speed.

If only cars came with some sort of instrumentation which somehow indicated the velocity the car was travelling at. 🙄🙄

If he's got to 24 without a driving license, I'd wager that he'll be OK with just an automatic only license from here on in... It will provide challenges and extra costs for sure versus being able to drive a manual, but then he's already spent the last 6/7 years without a license when his peers have almost certainly been driving already and he's dealt with the complications that has dealt already.

To my mind, as a Petrolhead myself, there is only one reason anybody would buy a manual car these days over and above an automatic (ignoring cost and availability, as these things can be worked around readily), and that is because you yourself are a confirmed petrolhead, and you relish the opportunity to change gear at every opportunity and the increased control a manual gearbox affords you...

Now... Someone who has got to 24 without a driving license is almost certainly NOT a petrolhead... And as someone who owns a rather nice manual car than fortunately I don't have to drive every day (if I did, it would probably have a dual clutch or full auto box!), I wouldn't be without the DSG gearbox in my van which is my work vehicle and is driven daily... Traffic jams aren't fun at the best of times, but with a manual box they're a real chore! Modern auto's are much better than auto's of old too, and the 6-10spd boxes on offer in most modern cars now are often at least as economical as the manual equivalent too. So even if we're sticking with I/C engined vehicles, manuals are still going the way of the Dodo except for the very few of us that are minded enough to appreciate their fineties in our leisure time... Throw the electrification of the automotive world into the mix, and honestly, in 10yrs time the youth of now will look back and wonder why they ever bothered learning to drive a manual car at all! Seriously!

Just please... Don't let him buy a bloody Astra!!! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Take a full test, you can drive anything even if you then choose an auto. Take an auto test and you're stuck with autos. He's massively reducing his pool of available vehicles.

Auto test or no though,

A 2L Astra on a £3,500 ticket as his first car, he's off his head. It'll be ragged and he'll be devastated when he's paying to have it towed out of a hedge a month later.

The advice I'd give to new drivers: get the car you want as your second car, make all your just-passed mistakes in a beater you don't care about first. Swallow your pride, third-class motoring is better than first-class walking.