[Closed] Bus lane fine

He is lucky in that his inattention did not result in something with more serious consequences

No, he would have been unlucky if that had happened. If you believe in such things.

Even though being dark happens everyday and we get rain fairly often too.

Yup, and every time that makes it harder to see stuff

[i]He is lucky in that his inattention did not result in something with more serious consequences. Could have been a robins face etc.[/i]

I think that is a little unfair tjagain. It is well known that when we concentrate on one thing the brain 'shuts off' other information gathered unless it is perceived to be of danger to us (that dancing monkey video in the middle of a basketball game is a good example of this). I have also been a victim of this human condition when I was caught speeding on a dual carriageway where I hadn't noticed the change of speed limit from 60km/h to 50km/h as I was concentrating on looking for a street name in a city I wasn't familiar with. It wasn't wilfull disregard of the law but like the op is going to have to do I just had to suck it up and put it down experience.

Yup, and every time that makes it harder to see stuff

Precisely hence why it's not extenuating.

What gets me about this thread is these excuses some are giving are the same excuses car drivers give when hitting cyclists and then its all outrage on here - just think about it chaps.

Precisely hence why it's not extenuating.

Why is that?

What gets me about this thread is these excuses some are giving are the same excuses car drivers give when hitting cyclists and then its all outrage on here - just think about it chaps.

It's not excuses, it's explanation or justification

If it had been - " I missed seeing a cyclist and knocked him off but it was dark and raining and I was lost on unfamiliar roads" would you be so understanding?

the hypocrisy is breathtaking

I doubt you'll get anywhere with contesting the fine.

I got done for going in a short strip of bus lane on the run up to a set of traffic lights in Wembley high road.
Just prior to the lights, the bus lane ends and there is no bus lane after the lights. At the lights there are two lanes.
There were several cars in the right hand lane (the rearmost had it's right turn indicator on and I know from experience you can get stuck behind this queue if they are all turning right) so I moved into the left lane.
Before moving over, I had a glance at the bus lane sign & decided the bus lane rules didn't apply at that time.

But, I didn't realise it was an event day at the stadium (a footie match) and you aren't allowed in bus lanes on event days.
It does say this on the bus lane sign, but it doesn't tell you whether it is an event day or not.

There are other signs in other locations that tell you whether it's an event day.
As above, regarding signage - I hadn't specifically been looking for signs to tell me if it was an event day or not. I have driven up that road hundreds of times before, I know what the hazards are, the speed limit is etc; the only thing I did wrong was being unaware that there was a football match a mile & a half up the road.

I checked the lane before moving & held no one up & was only in the lane for a matter of seconds. I got an £80, I think....

I contested it & basically got told 'tough, you should have known it was an event day and the rules are the rules'.
That's what annoys me about it....there is no common sense applied to these things and unless you want to take it to court there is no one to rationally explain it to. I explained all the circumstances, that it was a considered move for a certain reason, I held no one up etc. and just got a reply with said 'tough'.

I know won't use the bus lanes in that area at all, because I don't want to get done again and there are so many rules about when you can & can't use them it's easier to just avoid them.
Even my parents who live there & drive around the area all the time don't use the bus lanes....

tjagain - Member

If it had been - " I missed seeing a cyclist and knocked him off but it was dark and raining and I was lost on unfamiliar roads" would you be so understanding?

the hypocrisy is breathtaking

I think we're slipping into old 'black & white' TJ mode here.....

When I drive, there are loads of things I ignore & there are loads of things I pay attention to. I (probably) sub-consciously prioritise them based on experience.
In unfamiliar circumstances I would be much more likely to miss a road sign because I had deemed the road layout, the cars, the cyclists, the bollards, the parked cars, that junction over there etc etc. more important than a small blue sign that doesn't really matter.

You are nuts if you think 'I didn't see that road sign' is equal to 'I didn't see that cyclist'......in fact, I might even miss a road sign because I was being cautious around a cyclist and more of my awareness was being taken up on driving appropriately in the cyclist's vicinity....

8pm why would it need to be a bus lane at that time of day?
I can see the point during peak times but not at that time of day.

Having said that it is Gloucester and very little would surprise me about the council doing stupid things.

Could have been worse, op

Could have been worse, op

Those single bollards at the traffic lights were savage. What's the reasoning behind them over just having regular traffic lights?

[I]I know it's fun to pile on, but I can see the OP's point. A place you don't know, it's dark and pissing it down. I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances. [/I]

+1

I always appeal, and on 50% on them have won (using bus lanes in central London when on a motorcycle because some you can and some you can't).

In a few of the cases TfL didn't contest and/or didn't turn up.

[quote=Jamie ]Those single bollards at the traffic lights were savage. What's the reasoning behind them over just having regular traffic lights?

Youtube hits?

so life has a habit of equating itself

I assume this was a typo and meant to be

so life has a habit of eating itself

I guess the OP's gripe is how you get in a tiswas trying to find your way through a badly designed maze and end up getting fined for not noticing a sign.

I regularly drive down a piece of road that is a bus lane (and taxi etc.) up to 7p.m. Mon to Sat. It's usually after 7p.m. when I'm there and nobody is using the bus lane (certainly no buses at that time). I zoom down it undertaking everybody and hoping nobody suddenly pulls in. The fact that I am in an Octavia and driving like an idiot probably means they assume I'm a taxi anyway.

[quote=ernie_lynch ]I am particularly good about avoiding killing wildlife. Robins have nothing to fear from me.

How do you know if you don't see them?

How do you know if you don't see them?

They tweet him to say thanks.

I've no idea how old that photo is as if you move a few feet along the road isn't surfaced.

There's a brilliant bit of Street View time travel happening: in 2012, the camera car must have been able to drive along the full length of the road, but for the newer photos the Buses Only restriction had been put in place. Because there are no newer photos for that short section, Google reverts to the old ones.

🙂

What TJ says.

Drive to the conditions, educate yourself on signage, and suck this up!

but the copper will have a laugh. Same as when they ask you if you know of what the speed limit is its not time to plead ignorance.

I don't know, I've just spent an hour doing Community Speedwatch on our street. The 'driver biased' thinking that even the Police assigned to traffic tasks express is somewhat staggering.

One of them said "perhaps there aren't enough signs". There are 20mph roundels on both sides of the road at the point we were checking speed. There is a borough-wide 20mph limit and 20mph painted on the road wherever you go from a 30mph TFL road to a 20mph borough road.

Despite there being c6 People standing on the pavements wearing hiviz jackets we still clocked a driver at 40mph.

More than one of them made comments about "some of the cyclists doing quite a speed" (it's a busy cycle route). The fastest I managed to record was 21mph. They heard about a cyclist/motorist incident on a nearby road "probably cyclist jumping red light". Actually knowing the junction almost certainly a left hook or undertaking car using bus lane.

One of them said "perhaps there aren't enough signs". There are 20mph roundels on both sides of the road at the point we were checking speed. There is a borough-wide 20mph limit and 20mph painted on the road wherever you go from a 30mph TFL road to a 20mph borough road.

Despite there being c6 People standing on the pavements wearing hiviz jackets we still clocked a driver at 40mph.

Was it raining and dark? That makes it extenuating.

They heard about a cyclist/motorist incident on a nearby road "probably cyclist jumping red light". Actually knowing the junction almost certainly a left hook or undertaking car using bus lane.

Apparently, there have been two cyclist deaths in London in the last year or so where jumping a red light was the cause. In both cases it was the driver of the motorised vehicle which jumped the red light.

Always worth appealing in my book.

I got a parking fine once for being parked with my permit displayed outside my own house where I had lived and parked for years. I appealed obviously, with a really over the top angry letter, pointing out that "maybe when posting the letter to an address in X road, for a parking offence in X road you should check whether that person is a resident and has a permit etc etc". Anyway, turns out that where I had been parking wasn't for residents and I was bang to rights, and had written an angry letter demanding that they were stupid like a complete penis. They still dropped the charge by 75%

Was it raining and dark? That makes it extenuating.

Bright and dry here at the moment. Was getting windy last night but the storm has either missed us or is waiting for me to go out for a ride.

Apparently, there have been two cyclist deaths in London in the last year or so where jumping a red light was the cause. In both cases it was the driver of the motorised vehicle which jumped the red light.

@beztweets has looked into this. I don't think anyone has managed to find any collisions (or certainly cyclist deaths) where a cyclist jumping a red light was the cause. The reality is that while motorists jump red lights as they change to red (or some seconds after), at speed, cyclists tend to jump red lights early, before they change, to get a head start having clearly checked the junction is clear.

I know most here are driving gods, with fully intact greenhouses, but I know I might have made the same mistake in similar circumstances.

It was dark, raining and I was lost is an ok* rebuttal to any aforementioned driving gods who are having a go at you, it's not a valid legal defence**.

As for extenuating circumstances, I'm not sure that a well known daily event mixed with a very common event are really much of a mitigation. "Sorry, I made a mistake, fortunately no one was hurt, I'll pay my fine" sounds a reasonable response to this.

*well it's a bit of a lame rebuttal tbh
**or atleast it damn well shouldn't be

Central Croydon is a nightmare with regards to this, they have pale blue signs with pictures of trams, buses, bicycles, and the word "taxi" on them, in various combinations. And just to properly confuse you some of the pale blue signs with pictures of trams on them only apply certain times. So you have to work out what the picture on the sign says and what time/day it is, whilst driving with someone up your arse and trying to figure out what turning to take.

Sorry, I made a mistake,

How did you manage to get that phrase through the STW filter?

Sorry, I made a mistake, fortunately no one was hurt, I'll pay my fine" sounds a reasonable response to this.

Yup and £30 seems a fair proportionate penalty for that.

<sarcasm> It's almost like they want you to pay attention and be careful when piloting 1.5tonnes or more of metal box. The cheek of it !</sarcasm>

Although many urban planners are now starting consider "signage" to be a distraction.

The bus lane in question seems oddly situated without any obvious reason, it is just the continuation of a semi residential/business street and looks to have access off the bus lane section. Maybe it should have a narrowing of the road, a stop line and signs at low level bollards.

Good street design should come first, and then enforcement if problems still persist.

1) That's not a bus lane. 💡

2) WTF is wrong with having a traditional no entry sign with exceptions? 😕

WTF is wrong with having a traditional no entry sign with exceptions?

Let's make Bus Lanes great again.

It's because it's also cycle lane.

It's because it's also cycle lane.

Hence why you'd use exceptions. Would be much clearer.

I bet it wouldn't. People who pay not attention wouldn't notice it because it was a red circle with a bus on it.

I bet it wouldn't. People [b]who pay not attention[/b] wouldn't notice it because it was a red circle with a bus on it.

😀

I'm not so sure. No entry means no entry to your general driver. Bus lanes can often be legally driven on. The current signage is definitely not doing a very good job!

Well done for spotting a spelling mistake Charile. I've been awake since 11am yesterday so I'm blaming extenuating circumstances.

Didn't realise it was a spelling mistake, thought it was a typo.
But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

aracer - Member

ernie_lynch » I am particularly good about avoiding killing wildlife. Robins have nothing to fear from me.

How do you know if you don't see them?

Of course I see them, I'm always looking out for wildlife.

Wildlife is at the top of my priority list - before Micra drivers but after the Old Bill.

[quote=CharlieMungus ]But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

Congratulations on making the point that people shouldn't be driving when tired!

But you do well to make the point that we can't always pay full attention all the time, even when it matters.

Who do I appeal to fot paying attention.

Congratulations on making the point that people shouldn't be driving when tired!

However, we live in the real world

Who do I appeal to fot paying attention.

How about this for a Bus Lane

[IMG] [/IMG]

If they had a camera on this they would make a fortune. As you can see, it's very short and ends just before the traffic signals meaning, if you drive correctly and want the left lane, you have to come over at a 45 degree angle to stop in the left lane at the lights.

It's the only 24 hour bus lane in town, the rest being 7am - 10am then 4 pm - 7pm so guess how many motorists drive in this short bus lane ? I'd say 80% of people drive straight through it.

I drove to Buchanan Galleries car park in Glasgow. The final approach is along a one-way street that at the car park entry becomes a bus lane.

The car park was closed and the entry blocked with scaffolding. I had to drive through the bus lane to escape.

Glasgow City Council sent me a fine, I disputed it but they didn't want to know. I'd seen no signage warning of a closed carpark, so submitted a FOI request regarding alteration to signage on the approach. They were only able to supply details of PROPOSED signage, and were unable to show evidence that the proposed signs were ever put in place.

I appealed to the Adjudicator and they had had "scores" of identical appeals and they rules against GCC. I was refunded the fine that I had paid.

If you can prove it was unreasonable, it is worth pursuing.