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subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.
Sony and Panasonic are still in S. Wales and for now the semiconductor plant at Newport (build under Thatcher) is still operating. Other companies make factory equipment, and a fair few few make products that get sent elsewhere to be packaged or for further processing. So don't be fooled into thinking nothing is made anymore. But what you won't see is many names that are recognizable outside the industry.
Thanks for revealing your source binners - it makes sense now! 😉
cornholio98 - MemberI remember case studies when I was at school in the 90's about subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.
Those electronic firms closed too. It seems the Welsh government offer too good to refuse subsidies,that offer short term jobs, that only really benefit companies taking them up.
A recent one is Aston Martin at Barry. No doubt the Welsh government will kit out the factory ... and 5yrs down road it will all be shipped to China or India.
If Port Talbot goes then so will Trostre and the consequences for that part of Wales will be fatal. I can't think of another employer who comes close to the quality and number of jobs that would be lost. DVLA is Swansea employs a few but that is it. Call centres and flippin burgers anyone?
It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don't go looking for sympathy if and [u]when[/u] it happens to you and your family.
Denis99 - which part of Rogerstone were you in/ who are you? I used to work there!
Cornholio98 - now, you're being a little disingenuous there... 10 years ago there was a massive investment and drive to up production and reduce cost, as well as rationalise the range of products being offered from the strip business. All the profit comes from the finishing end as I've said, so there was a drive to make more high quality, high margin stuff, but that's the same for many developed markets.
The Panasonic (I think) factory in between Newport and Cardiff closed after the subsidy ran out I believe. Is the semi-conductor plant near the patent office a different place?
It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don't go looking for sympathy if and when it happens to you and your family.
Sources?
Seems to be quite a strong consensus here and elsewhere to see a positive solution to what is a very complex problem - the only silver lining has been the sharp bounce in steel prices and gross margins, perhaps that will tempt some investment.
Unfortunately, while this is "massive" for the region, Tata UK supplies less than 1% of global output. So the industry perspective is very different from the local economic one.
Pigface don't worry the government will just class all the unemployed as 'in training' and 'on courses' for the rest of their lives. There will be the creation of a local partnership with an agency to help the newly unemployed to strategize their search, new courses, interview tips, CV writing.... All for jobs that don't exist. But in Parliament politicians can show that they are 'taking action' and 'that they care about South Wales'.
No one will want to piss off China or grow a leadership 'pair of balls and enact protectionism like France did/has/still bloody does with alot of their big employers.
Arghh. And relax.
Its good to hear at least some of the job creation may have worked...
When I worked in manufacturing everyone was scared their job would be shipped to Asia and this was one of the reasons I left. The warning signs have been there for years.
It will be bad of the people involved and it will be horrible for the regions which may never recover. I can't see a way out for the location though. If they can never be competitive then no private company will buy them and if kept open by the government it is just throwing good money after bad if money is not spend to transform the area at the same time nothing will change only kick the can down the road.
[i]Things could be saved though if you vote Corbyn. Good old socialism will reopen the mines, the steel plants and so on, and everyone in the country will be funding to keep these places open and keep people in jobs, even if they never sell anything they produce.[/i]
I love this argument..surpised you didn't start it with..."you know there really is no other way."
Harking back to what happened decades ago and thinking that's what'll happen if we ever dare to challenge our neo-liberal order....not very progressive thinking.
The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient.. 🙁
Sources?
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Take your pick
The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient..
TBF that was the case in 2000, so little has changed. The semiconductor game needs huge upfront investment and then the market is very cyclical.
Note: The original part of the factory was designed by the Richard Rogers Partnership and so has similar design features to the Lloyd's building or Pompidou.
know locally as the inside out building, there are a pair of warehouses near the Coldra as well.Lloyd's building or Pompidou.
copa - MemberAny "real world" examples of limitless public funds being made available?
Here's another one. Commitment to spend two percent of GDP on military toys. Currently around £40 billion but no limit on what it could rise to:
Defence spending commitmentThe UK government couldn't give a toss about manufacturing. The only things they'll fund in Wales are roads to England and the military:
RAF Valley future secured
Posted 1 hour ago #
Copa, your hatred of the military doesn't half make you post some twaddle. On the points above:
1. Don't you think that a commitment to military spending might be good for UK manufacturing?
2. The 2% commitment was wrung out of the government by the Americans, and even then it employs some smoke and mirrors to allow them to claim 2%. Why would you think they'll increase it further?
3. The RAF are shutting bases. Is keeping Valley open and shutting Linton-on-Ouse in (Tory) North Yorkshire a dastardly plan to see off the Welsh? Where do you think Valley's (predominantly civilian) workforce live?
You could say that the UK should put a tariff on Chinese steel but as long as there is a country in the EU free trade area that does not have this tariff manufacturing using said steel could potentially just move there.
According to UK steel, we import LOTS more from europe anyway.
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According to UK steel, we import LOTS more from europe anyway.
but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide
to make sure we didnt upset osbornes plans for China to save his economic masterplan
International rectifier had already stated that there was to be no inward investment to Newport and when infineon bought IR it was accelerated, they had already invested heavily into a 12" fab in Villach so the 6" fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot. When infineon took over at Newport they surveyed the staff and asked them to describe their positions as a painting, one guy said "it's like the sun on the horizon, only we don't know if it's sunrise or sunset". There are some very competent people there who's skills will be either lost or drained abroad which is a huge shame never mind the impact on local communities.
but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide
I don't doubt it, the point remains that china isn't the problem.
really?
a heavily subsidised political ally flooding the market with cheap oil and driving prices down in a global recession hasnt done our oil industry any favours, either
I put that quite badly actually, I meant that they aren't the big problem. They are a problem obviously.
The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.
Its very tough but its hardly a surprise, its not a bolt from the blue. The decline in Steel manufacturing in the developed world has been going for decades. I don't agree this is a short term blip either, we are in for many years of depressed economic conditions with the resultant impact on the price of steel.
12" fab in Villach so the 6" fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot.
There used to be an 8" line at Newport in the 'new' building. The old building process was inefficient back in 2000 due to small wafer sizes and manual handling of steps, like hand dipping into HF baths 😯
they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations)
.......... except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month 😳
Actually you are right they are on 8" wafers i'm easily confused with what their site were set up as ...I'm pretty sure the no longer hand dip in HF anymore though! 🙂
The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.
Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you'll ever admit that.
except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month
Just our government or where there others who disagreed - don't knkw just asking ? I imagine the government looked at what there might be to gain/lose from the situation. As I posted before people on here are very happy to buy online at the lowest price, British buyers of steel are only doing the same. The amount of levies that would be required to support the price to a point where uk production was viable would be huge.
Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you'll ever admit that.
But my comments have always focused on what they did after not least bailing out RBS at too high a price, wncouraging healthy Llods to buy bust Halifax Bank of Scotland and most importantly not reigning in spending post the crises. Merkel survived although she was in a minority (Bush/Brown/Sarkozy). There abolsutely would have been the same/similar crises under a Tory government.
Personally I blame everyone on here who's not a riding a steel mtb... 😀
I imagine the government looked at what there might be to gain/lose from the situatio
Maybe they raised it with Xi Jinping when he visited last year, or maybe not?
hes so desperate for the chinese to save his economic plan that hes not going to risk rocking the boat
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Personally I blame everyone on here who's not a riding a steel mtb...
Only if the steel was UK made otherwise you are part of the problem 🙂
what'll happen if we ever dare to challenge our neo-liberal order....not very progressive thinking.
Reality has a liberal bias.
Copa, your hatred of the military doesn't half make you post some twaddle. On the points above:1. Don't you think that a commitment to military spending might be good for UK manufacturing?
2. The 2% commitment was wrung out of the government by the Americans, and even then it employs some smoke and mirrors to allow them to claim 2%. Why would you think they'll increase it further?
3. The RAF are shutting bases. Is keeping Valley open and shutting Linton-on-Ouse in (Tory) North Yorkshire a dastardly plan to see off the Welsh? Where do you think Valley's (predominantly civilian) workforce live?
1. Yes, of course it is. It's what Dwight Eisenhower talked about in 1961.
2. Westminster politicians slobber over weapons, invasions and war - they don't need encouraging.
3. The UK Gov can't afford to save a steelworks which supports 4,000 but it can afford a £1 billion contract to safeguard 400 jobs involved in the training of people to bomb stuff.
@copa we can buy steel from other countries, we would be very naive to rely on others for our security.
From @ninfan's link
[i]Under Labour, steel production halved. Under Labour, employment in steel halved. Since I have been Prime Minister, steel production has gone up and steel employment has stayed the same. So before we get a self-righteous lecture from Labour, I would say to them, "Look at your own record!"[/i]
subsidised political ally flooding the market with cheap oil and driving prices down in a global recession hasnt done our oil industry much good
Yeah, but it's done every other industry that uses oil a huge favour (along with people that drive cars, heat houses...).
From a Jambafact or ninfans drivel??? Are these from the same people who blamed Labour for the global recession?
I'm not sure the 70% rise in the unemployed of Aberdeen are seeing the brightside.
Or indeed the 15000 Tata employees no longer making steel for the UK O&G sector....
Capatalism for steel socialism for banks 😉
Very unfortunate for those involved but we're an uncompetitive bit player in the steel industry. China has produced more steel in the last two years than the UK industry has in its entire history. This isfree trade at work isn't it? If the government impose tariffs on imported steel to prop up the uk industry then it forces those that currently use Chinese steel to pay higher prices and therefore impact their business. Why should they suffer for the benefit of those affected by the steel plant closure. This is only going to get worse over coming years through the implementation of technology which renders a lot of traditional jobs non-existent.
@wiki how many job losses in financial services simce 2008? 200,000 ?
@PigfCe - factcheck.org
Might be cheap now, but how much will Chinese steel be when it hasn't got any competition left...Isn't that how capitalism works?
Only read page 1 but why not take over British steel and then use what's produced for all the supposed upcoming projects like hs2? Sell the steel at a cost neutral price to build public projects?
I say this while watching the current mob destroy anything with the word public in it.
Might be cheap now, but how much will Chinese steel be when it hasn't got any competition left...Isn't that how capitalism works?
Surely at that point, another country comes along that can produce it cheaper than China is now selling it, like they did to us?
MrOvershoot - Member
The thing is its not just the direct jobs at the steel plants but all the tertiary companies that rely on the steel works for a large proportion of their income.
I'm not sure of the exact figure but I think it was for every one person working in the steep plant two more relied on it for their job.
Served my apprenticeship in the steel industry, 6 great years before redundancy, we where part of the GKN empire, 2200 people working there, then Shotton down the hill got almost closed down.all steel mking stopped, biggest single redundancy in europe at the time,12000 workers jobs lost, along with huge numbers odf contractors, drivers, local shops suffered, as did everything related to the steelworks, then we started getting made redundant, and the same happened, eventually we closed down, chinese bought the plant and sent teams of chinese workers to dismantle it bolt by bolt and ship it to Birkenhead docks, onto china by boat,then 1200 miles accross land to Chang King in China where it was all rebuilt.
Then there was Bidston Steel down the road from where i live now, they where privately owned employed about 600 workers and lots of contractors, they got closed and site is now a tesco supermarket, and tennis centre.
The closures if they do happen will be catastrophic for the local areas, for its people, their way of life and skills base, pound shops dont usually have vacancies for highly skilled steelworkers, then there is also the emotional side, families are destroyed, kids go off the rails, vandalism and aggression builds up, firms go bust, a huge circle being formed.
Aside from the pointless arguing over bank bailouts, what I find interesting is that when it comes to nuclear weapons, we are told we must take the long view, that we cannot predict the future, and that unknown threats may arise which make it a strategic necessity to spend hundreds of billions of pounds on them. Yet when it comes to having our own capability for making a material that is a cornerstone of an industrial society, we are told that it's ok, we can import it, we don't need to make it ourselves, and that some other country will always be there to supply us with it no matter what may happen in the future. Seems to me the word 'strategic' is used only when it suits.