[Closed] Britains Hidden Housing Crisis

rudebwoy - Member

there is a world of difference, with people who are homeless, and those like your brother--sure he had a nice warm house to go to ?

Then use me as an example instead of his brother; I've been homeless. 🙂

rudebwoy - Member

so a homeless guy/girl turns up on your door step-- you going to give them a job over the established people with vans and tools-- in case you haven't noticed there is a glut of unemployed , but yep keep blaming the poor,sick, for their own predicament-- if it helps you sleep easy...

You try getting someone to mow your lawns in my area in the summer. It's impossible; I've tried.
Just because you wouldn't employ a homeless person (how would you know? Do they have to wear a sign?) doesn't mean others wouldn't.

sbob - I wasn't being non-specific. like I said - you're absolutely ****ing brilliant!! Seriously!

Give yourself another pat on the back. Oh... I see you already have 😆

binners - Member

Which planet do you presently live on BTW?

Advertised a job at our local job centre.
It was some late nights, some weekends, and you'd probably need at least a push bike to get there.
All mentioned in job advert.

We had three applicants.
One who couldn't do evenings, one who couldn't do weekends, one who wouldn't consider the job unless we provided transport (she could have walked it).
Last time I was at the job centre the queue was out the door, yet all we get is three timewasters deliberately applying for jobs they can't do just so they can continue signing on.

So what planet do you live on binners?
Planet ****ing Grauniad?

binners - Member

sbob - I wasn't being non-specific.

You are, firstly because you have no idea of what you are talking about, and secondly because you have no balls. 🙂

Have some conviction man, grow a pair. 💡

If they didn't spend their days watching Jeremy Kyle on their huge telly, smoking fags and drinking, in their PJ's and Ugg boots, then they'd probably be running their own business, or something. Its that easy

It's not easy Binners and that's the point - all I'm saying is that if you want something that much then there's often a way, usually involving hard work and not 'luck' as you put it. There's always people like you who will say 'it can't be done', 'it's so unfair' or 'the system is against me'. But there's countless others whom, despite the many problems and the obstacles, just get on out there and create their own 'luck'. Sure no-one on life starts out on an equal footing and that's never going to be the case, but only you can decide in life whether you want to sink or swim.

there is a world of difference, with people who are homeless, and those like your brother--sure he had a nice warm house to go to ?

Why is there a world of difference? You're just using it as an excuse ain't you? Most gardening jobs are cash in hand - you don't need an address! He started without any experience - just a gardening book from the local 2nd hand bookshop and a lot of teaching himself as he went along. Also most gardeners look pretty scruffy anyway. My brother could easily pass for a homeless person when he's in work, and probably out of work a lot of the time too.

Ah yes.... I must be a pinko/commy, and live in Tuscany if I dare to question the Cameron-esque 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' certainties?

The job you were advertising? Could you expand? A job doing what? Was it minimum wage? Was it a zero hours contract or guaranteed hours?

BTW: I've always been self employed/freelance and have built up 2 businesses myself, so even though clearly not the thrusting dynamic go getter, like yourself, I do have a base knowledge of the subject

Anyway, this job that the 'skivers' won't take..... ?

* to use the present Osbourne parlance

Advertised a job at our local job centre.
It was some late nights, some weekends, and you'd probably need at least a push bike to get there.
All mentioned in job advert.

We had three applicants.
One who couldn't do evenings, one who couldn't do weekends, one who wouldn't consider the job unless we provided transport (she could have walked it).
Last time I was at the job centre the queue was out the door, yet all we get is three timewasters deliberately applying for jobs they can't do just so they can continue signing on.

Minimum wage presumably and without premium for unsocial hours?

binners - Member

Blah, sarcasm, blah,

BTW: I've always been self employed/freelance and have built up 2 businesses myself

Blah, more sarcasm, blah.

Ah, so you don't know what it's like.
Well, I [i]am[/i] surprised.

Did you see that?
There, I wrote it in a way you'd understand. 😆

cinnamon_girl - Member

Minimum wage presumably and without premium for unsocial hours?

Absolutely.
Are you now going to attempt to use that fact as justification for the thousands of unemployed who simply didn't want a job?

This will be good! 😈

And just to add more fuel to the fire ...

How much money did the country waste on the 'Lympics? Just imagine how many peoples lives could have been improved.

I presume we can we take it from your (non) reply that you were offering a minimum wage, zero hours contract, working unsocial hours?

Seems there's a lot of that on offer at the moment. And not much else

You do realise that if people sign off to take these jobs, then they don't get the hours you thought, it'd take 5 weeks without benefits, while they process your claim as a new applicant? Of course you do. You're completely clued up on what its like to live on benefits, by the sounds of it. Big telly's, Sky, ipads, afternoons in the pub.....

Well said binners. 🙂

sbob - for someone who's supposedly been through hard times, you appear to be completely devoid of empathy.

Minimum wage, unsocial hours (sometimes), not zero hours.
It was a full time job, but only guaranteed to part time over school holidays to start with. Chances to progress.
Better than benefits, if you want to work. 😉

The job you were advertising? Could you expand? A job doing what? Was it minimum wage? Was it a zero hours contract or guaranteed hours?

Hello - it's still a job! I've had to do some really sh*t jobs in my time. But you know what, sh*t jobs can often lead to other things. You have to start somewhere and you're living in complete cloud cuckoo land if you think that someone is just going to offer you a first job as a manager on 30K a year.

And when it come's to hiring someone for a good job, as an employer who would you hire - someone with a keen attitude and a little experience, who has reliably held down a minimum wage job for the last 3 months, or a lazy dole seeker who considers a job on minimum wage beneath them?

How much money did the country waste on the 'Lympics? Just imagine how many peoples lives could have been improved.

Not really relevent to this discussion but you could say that the Olympics has brought a lot to this country. Inspiring a generation to get into sport and be healthy for a start perhaps? Or how about a better perception of people with disability and what they can achieve. I could go on . . .

God you people are so negative!

[quote=cinnamon_girl ]And just to add more fuel to the fire ...
How much money did the country waste on the 'Lympics? Just imagine how many peoples lives could have been improved.
Wasn't a lot of that money spent employing people, giving them experience for other jobs, growing the "Sports sector" and therefore creating more long term employment?

It was a full time job, but only guaranteed to part time over school holidays to start with.

Better than benefits, if you want to work.

So... you were offering a part time job on minimum wage, specifically during school holidays only? with some vague words about career progression and maybe full time, possibly? At some undisclosed point in the future?

Hello - it's still a job! I've had to do some really sh*t jobs in my time. But you know what, sh*t jobs can often lead to other things.

With the greatest of respect, it doesn't sound much like this one's going to really, does it?

You 2 clearly haven't got the got the remotest idea of how the 'benefit trap' works in this country, have you? Not the foggiest!

You just carry on in your little self-congratulatory bubbles 🙄

You 2 clearly haven't got the got the remotest idea of how the 'benefit trap' works in this country, have you? Not the foggiest!

Actually I have Binners having been in that situation myself. I have had to claim jobseekers in the past for around 3-4 months after being made redundant and falling ill. I also got some DSS help with my rent payments, otherwise I'd have been evicted from my shared house. I was living alone and there's far less support there than you think for a single person. Basically if you're a single guy then you get put to the bottom of the list in terms of priority. If I'd have had a wife and kids then it would probably have been different.

Not a nice situation to be in. But through hard work, a willingless to learn, and being prepared to do anything (yes several sh*t jobs) I've been able to progress and now 14 years later run a company that is profitable, gives me a nice life and employs other people.

Guess it depends what you want out of life at the end of the day doesn't it? If you're happy sponging of the state because 'its too hard to get a job' then go for it. If you have more self respect than that and want to make something with your life despite it not being the easy option then I admire you.

Suggest you try a different argument Binners.

Ah yes.... the I was once on benefits, so I know how it all works, justification? Predictable I suppose.

Its pointless arguing with you anyway. You've just amply demonstrated you haven't actually a clue what the benefits trap is.

If you do, then can you explain to me how the job Alan Sugar over there is offering - part time hours for 2 weeks out of every 9, on minimum wage - is going to replace JSA and housing benefit, council tax relief etc. Bearing in mind what I previously stated that if someone signs off, it will then take 5 weeks to process a new claim if they need to sign back on (like after the school holidays)

Fire away....

(I've a pretty good idea I can predict your answer, word-for-word)

cinnamon_girl - Member

sbob - for someone who's supposedly been through hard times, you appear to be completely devoid of empathy.

Maybe you should question why. 💡

Don't get me wrong; I know exactly how hard it can be to get a job in today's climate. When I first wanted a job all you had to do (if, like I was you were too lazy to look yourself) was sign up to an agency and you'd have work within the week.
It is much, much harder now.
However, spend a couple of months queuing up in the job centre every fortnight and your sympathy will soon be eroded away.

binners - Member

So... you were offering a part time job on minimum wage, specifically during school holidays only? with some vague words about career progression and maybe full time, possibly? At some undisclosed point in the future?

No, it was full time for the majority of the year, but possibly only part time over the school holidays.

With the greatest of respect, it doesn't sound much like this one's going to really, does it?

It was the same position that I took. 💡

You 2 clearly haven't got the got the remotest idea of how the 'benefit trap' works in this country, have you? Not the foggiest!

You just carry on in your little self-congratulatory bubbles

Been there, seen it, escaped it. There's been no protective bubble for me.

So it appears the person with first hand experience apparantly has no idea compared to the person with no experience.

I like you, you're a keeper; you're amusing me on my day off. 😆

Binners, the benefits trap is a situation whereby the state pays far too much money to keep the unemployable in cigarettes, X-boxes, ready meals and Sky TV.

Jobs are available but unfortunately by taking even a low paid job then these people run the substantial risk of:

a) turning up late.
b) not being reliable.
c) not turning up at all.
d) not working as hard as a Polish immigrant would.

Therefore by taking and then almost certainly loosing the low paid job, it would mean a 5 week wait to get money for more cigarettes, X-box games, ready meals and Sky TV.

To go without Sky TV for this length of time is unacceptable in today's society and is indeed against basic human rights and European health and safety legislation. Therefore the risk in taking the low paid job could be considered far too great.

This is known as the benefits trap.

Was that Tory enough for you Binners?

Always happy to provide a service. Do I get minimum wage then? 😉

binners - Member

If you do, then can you explain to me how the job Alan Sugar over there is offering - part time hours for 2 weeks out of every 9, on minimum wage - is going to replace JSA and housing benefit, council tax relief etc. Bearing in mind what I previously stated that if someone signs off, it will then take 5 weeks to process a new claim if they need to sign back on (like after the school holidays)

Comprehension failure, see above post.

Sbob, interesting posts that echo much of what I think and have experienced over the years.
This forum is notorious for shouting down anyone who's made good as being privileged....while assuming that anyone unemployed has been screwed by the system.

I was on job seekers allowance for a few months when I was made redundant and as someone else said, you take whatever work comes your way. At one point I was going down manholes, drains, sewers etc as a comically titled 'underground utility surveyor'....crappy job (literally)....poorly paid too but it was a job. It gave me some breathing space until I could put together a better CV and go looking for better work, this concept seems lost on some people.
My uncle is very talented with computers, he got made redundant years ago and won't take any jobs that aren't IT related and at a similar managerial level as before, needless to say he needs to lower his expectations somewhat....it's about sometimes taking a backward step in order to move forward but some people can't see that, they seem to think that once they have reached a certain position or earned a certain salary then that's what they are entitled to for the rest if their lives.

When the benefit trap then swoops in and pays their rent, utilities bills and puts food on the table then what incentive is there to get a menial job and start working your way up again?....I firmly believe claimants should be doing voluntary work in exchange for benefits.

When the benefit trap then swoops in and pays their rent, utilities bills and puts food on the table then what incentive is there to get a menial job and start working your way up again?....I firmly believe claimants should be doing voluntary work in exchange for benefits

The answer as all of us are aware, including Binners... is there is no incentive at all.

Make the non-working people work in soup kitchens for their Dole money, make them sweep the streets, pick up litter....

If they don't turn up for work, dock them 1/5th of their social money for that week.

I bet they'd soon find a way to get a job.

[quote=deviant ]I firmly believe claimants should be doing voluntary work in exchange for benefits.
Otherwise known as "working".

Agreed, can't understand why it isn't policy yet, got to be vote winner too surely?

It's the hardworking gardeners and street-sweepers who have just had their market saturated by a 2.5million person strong, minimum-wage/free workforce, that I feel sorry for...

[i]<implied_wink_or_knowing_look_smiley_face>[/i]

I think we're all agreed on one thing. The benefits system as it stands in this country is completely unfit for purpose. Its an utter shambles!

My only dealings with it were when I lost my business. I was told that having paid tax and NI every day of my life since leaving school, I wasn't entitled to a penny. Nothing!

This was as I was still listed as a company director at Companies House, and therefore, technically, I was 'employed' as far as they were concerned. 2 kids and no income was fun.

pays far too much money to keep the unemployable in cigarettes, X-boxes, ready meals and Sky TV.

yes, but look what happens when you don't!

Just like prisons turn a blind eye to pot smoking and allowing TV's - would you rather look after a bunch of stoned inmates watching telly, or a load of adrenalin and frustration wired psychopaths starting fights and knifing each other over their 'rep' all the time

It's the hardworking gardeners and street-sweepers who have just had their market saturated by a 2.5million person strong, minimum-wage/free workforce, that I feel sorry for...

Give them a clipboard and a promotion to supervisor or quality assurance - everyone's a winner 😀 -

(its the Jobcentre plus staff that will be left on the pile marked no f'kin use to anyone)

ps - on the prisons issue, in my world, "Her Majesty's correctional domestic recycling centre" and "Her Majesty's correctional NHS laundry depot" will leave 'em too tired to fight with each other 😉

binners - Member

I think we're all agreed on one thing.

The taste of your backtracking is sweeter than an orphan's tears? 😆
😉

What's your definition of 'backtracking'?

Not backtracking at all. I still think you're ****ing brilliant! And clearly you do too. So we agree on all manner of things! 😉

binners - Member

Not backtracking at all. I still think you're ****ing brilliant! And clearly you do too. So we agree on all manner of things!

I do think I'm brilliant, but not because of anything I've mentioned in this thread.
I'm just using my experiences to try and show that people can help themselves, in counter to your apparant (as you actually say very little, just repeating school yard sarcasm) belief that it is never anyone's fault that they are hard up, and there's nothing the poor things can do about it, which is the crux of the matter; everyone these days thinks they are owed something.

there are three basic essentials to survive in our country,food, clothes and shelter. in this 'rich' developed economy, the system is unable/unwilling to provide the latter.

When I was growing up there was no school of thought that you were owed anything; you want something you work for it.
I've got shelter over my head because I pay for it.
That is, or should be, how the "system" works, not choosing to become pregnant so you can get benefits, which does happen obviously far more frequently than you think.

I'm going to go against the tide and blame it all on Labour. 😀

I've hardly said that its not anyone's fault that they're hard up. There are plenty of idle sods around. I'm not daft!

But this faux American Dream idea that if you're motivated enough you can achieve anything, is simply cobblers for a lot of people. You are aware that social mobility in this country is worse than its ever been, and getting progressively worse all the time.

There are (officially) 2.5 million out of work at the moment. Another 1.5 million looking for full time work, who can only find part time. I think its safe to say you've bought the whole Osbourne line that they're all skivers

This is quite frankly... utter bollox

I can't work out if you're Paul Dacre, David Ike, or some hideous hybrid of the two. Whats your view on lizard overlords?

truth is this a low wage low skill economy, where low wages are subsidised by the 'state'--healthy 'profits' for the big employers(users), sbob, and co --would you work for a wage paying less than benefit, with no security, no prospects ?-- sure you would...

oh the irony, i wouldn't be on here if i had a job, whereas you in top positions seem to be able to be on here more than me--and i'm out o work !!!

There are (officially) 2.5 million out of work at the moment. Another 1.5 million looking for full time work, who can only find part time. I think its safe to say you've bought the whole Osbourne line that they're all skivers

I was out of work from 19-26 years old... However the above implies i was looking for work for 7 years, not playing golf for most of it 🙂

rudebwoy - Member

sbob, and co --would you work for a wage paying less than benefit, with no security, no prospects ?-- sure you would...

I've already stated that I have worked for minimum wage.

oh the irony, i wouldn't be on here if i had a job, whereas you in top positions seem to be able to be on here more than me--and i'm out o work !!!

I've already stated that today is my day off.
Why the **** are you wasting time on here instead of looking for a job?
Treat job hunting as a full time job, and you might get one.

There you go binners; prime example.

sbob-- my day off n all- and tomorrow and friday- oh i might go looking on xmas day 😉

job hunting-- what a perverse term-- i think when there are at least 4 million unemployed, many millions more under employed-- loads of phoney self employment-- there are not enough 'jobs' in the field to be 'hunted'-- of course in your world that is to separate the wheatfrom the chaff..... you people inhabit a head space that defies logic

Yeah no worries.
Just blame it on Thatcher.

rudebwoy - Member
job hunting-- what a perverse term-- i think when there are at least 4 million unemployed, many millions more under employed-- loads of phoney self employment-- there are not enough 'jobs' in the field to be 'hunted'-- of course in your world that is to separate the wheatfrom the chaff..... you people inhabit a head space that defies logic

How many CV's have you sent out today ?

How many HR departments have you called ?

Have you walked around the shops that have "Xmas staff wanted" in the windows ?

How about the pubs etc that need staff for the festive period ?

do you know my situation/skills ?

rudebwoy - Member
do you know my situation/skills ?

I know your're out of work and appear to want a job ? Other than that i don't think i've ever seen you post until the last few hours.

Is there something i/we should know ?