[Closed] Bringing back the death penalty..

mate, we all have a right to a (sic) opinion.

Everyone? Without exception?

Has anyone seen figures on how many innocent people have been executed in the USA as a percentage of the total killed?

Teej, good old fashioned revenge would suffice for me.

3fish........no mate, once sentenced you lose all your rights.

Teej, good old fashioned revenge would suffice for me.

An "eye for an eye"; yes?

no mate, once sentenced you lose all your rights.

But prior to that, everyone has the right to an opinion?

Has anyone seen figures on how many innocent people have been executed in the USA as a percentage of the total killed?

Nope, seeing as many of the executed are poor, uneducated, under-represented members of ethnic minorities (mostly black of course), society tends to let the executed ones just fall off the side of the plane where someone might care about what's happened to them.

Have you?

Are you the one that thinks America has a really good judicial and punitive system? I can't really be arsed reading back through the reams of shit ilmg has spouted. So, go on, is it you BH?

justice mate, call it what you like.

Teej, good old fashioned revenge would suffice for me.

Law of the jungle for you ton eh? Would you pull the lever ton? Apply the hangman's knot? Administer the injection? Well, would you? I know you're an all round tough guy, but I wonder where you draw the line on how much of the punishment you'd administer yourself.

I'd wonder more if you'd pull the lever on your son if he'd been irefutably convicted of capital crime.

this thread reminds me of being at comp trying to explain things to the really thick kids.

Not me when it comes to the US justice system, my only mistake was saying about a few slipping through the net.

I ask about figures as it seems most on here have little faith in the UK system.

I do like a tough prison though.

clubber, if you had been kidnapped as a child, then raped by a gang of men, then killed and discarded like a piece of litter, do you think your dad would want the murderers dead?

and if he had wanted them dead, would he be a lesser/worse/THICK man?

my earlier reply explained my view on that exact point. As it goes, that bit wasn't the part I was suggesting was thick.

Well I agree with the OP up to a point , although it is difficult to take seriously somebody with such a poor grasp of the language . If you are going to put somebody in prison for the rest of their life then it's a better and cheaper solution to humanely "remove them from society" . There may be mistakes made but I bet if you do a count up there are more innocent people murdered by murderers who have been released from prison than there are people who would've been wrongly executed .
Doing away with capital punishment and trying to rehabilitate offenders is IMO an experiment that has not worked and at some point in the future things will go full circle.

come on mate answer that bit then.

BenHouldsworth - Member

I do like a tough prison though.

Even though its proven to be counterproductive? ie to increase reoffending rates.

mind you my dad wouldn't have. bloody hippy liberal 😉

😆

It's only counter productive if you release them

ton - my previous reply

I' d quite possibly want the guilty party dead at
least sometimes. In the mean time.in order to
have what is IMO a safer, better society I' d
rather have that option taken away. Emotive
responses are rarely or even never the best
ones..

BenHouldsworth - Member

It's only counter productive if you release them

so the only sentence is life with a whole life tariff? Nothing else for any crime?

OP 5 minutes ago - [img] [/img]

STW towers right about now - [img] [/img]

but is proving not to be a better society mate.

better than what? Society's problems are.not all.down to our sentencing.options for.the.most extreme cases.

So TJ, tell me about your productive prison system, the one that satisfy Mail readers like myself and more liberal types

There may be mistakes made but I bet if you do a count up there are more innocent people murdered by murderers who have been released from prison than there are people who would've been wrongly executed .

Birmingham 6, guildford 4.Stephen Downing, Stefa Kizko. thats 12. thats just the famous ones I know ab out.

Teh only data on released murders killing I can find easily is from the daily wail - 3 deaths.

Doing away with capital punishment and trying to rehabilitate offenders is IMO an experiment that has not worked and at some point in the future things will go full circle.

rubbish. Erwin James - a bad lad a murderer who is now a useful menber of society. Successfully rehabilitated by the system. One of a great many. Rehabilitation works. The problem is we don't do enough of it.

What too many of you fail to remember is that a life sentence is that - life. You are never freed only released on license and subject to supervision and control the rest of your life. Subject to recall to prison on the flimsiest of pretexts and often are

You are only released on license one your "tariff" is completed and once a parole board has decided you are no longer a danger.

i big part of a society going wrong is down to crime, one of the reason's crime grows is because the punishment is too weak/poor.

Ben - its not possible to satisfy the Daily Wail types with a system that actually works. We need to educate the Daily wailers as much as the criminals. They are a significant part of the problem.

there was unit in Scotland for the really bad young men based around rehabilitation. The daily wail tendency found out about it and got it closed down despite the fact it was getting good results. More crime will occur as result.

http://news.scotsman.com/airborneinitiative/Closure-of-rehabilitation-unit-forces.2502723.jp

Rehabilition is never going to play well with the right wing press. it leads to all those lovely headlines - " holidays for cons" etc.

Its a great shame because taking steps to rehabilitate people will have a far greater effect than locking them up aimlessly for years.

Our present system has failed, its expensive and does no good at all. We lock more people up for longer than other comparable countries.

ton - Member

i big part of a society going wrong is down to crime, one of the reason's crime grows is because the punishment is too weak/poor.

actully Ton crime is low and has been falling for years.

Can we have the death penalty for murders that are witnessed then ? Where there is no dispute? Preferably by somthing long slow and painful?

i big part of a society going wrong is down to crime, [b]one of the reason's crime grows is because the punishment is too weak/poor[/b].

Murder rate info for the US for the past few years

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state

States with the death penalty = 5.6485042735 murders per 100,000 residents

States without the death penalty = 3.2857142857 murders per 100,000 residents

Given that we have a justice system that hasn't exactly proved to be infallible, I don't support the death penalty. Not only that, if it were to be applied to someone who was subsequently proved innocent, or that the conviction was proved to be unsafe, then the compensation payments to the family would be considerable.

Any of you feel comfortable enough to sit on a jury to decide someone's fate? I don't.

There are a lot of nasty crimes that have been committed, but I don't see what purpose the death penalty serves other than to provide a symbolic revenge. I do agree that sentencing is far too soft, but killing convicts is something we repealed in 1998 and I don't agree with assertions that we're a worse society for it.

A swift hanging would save a fortune in keeping them locked up for years .We could apply the death penalty retrospectively and empty prisons in a day or two

PJM1974 - Member
I do agree that sentencing is far too soft,

Why? We lock more people up for longer times than other comparable countries.

What evidence do you have for your statement?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn1page1.stm
http://www.civitas.org.uk/data/prisonPopEU2007.htm

I saw Edric 64 murder a little child, and I'm not lying.
Someone should hang him.

TJ, thanks for your informative response, food for thought, I will stop trolling on this subject and get back to my Mail on Sunday supplements

here goes teej

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/910/414/Baby_P_Killer_Released_Today.html

oh, and he did this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/01/babyp-stepfather-guilty-rape-girl

[/]We could apply the death penalty retrospectively and empty prisons in a day or two[/i]

Er, excuse me but my job's already looking iffy. Don't go emptying prisons!

I do actually agree with the death penalty, but not on a 'revenge/eye for an eye' system, purely to purge the country of some true vermin that actually breed & have no intention of being rehabilitated or will probably never be any benefit to society.

essel...............that's wakefield shut then... 😆

infact, i think that they still have the gallows house in wakefield.

i want a sociaty where my kids/gandkids are safe, where my wife is safe.

I don't believe that 'society' is any more dangerous now than it ever was; we're just better at reporting it. Or at least, by 'better' I suppose I mean 'more enthusiastic.'

since the death penaly/capital punishment was abolished murder rates have risen.

[Citation needed]

maybe very occasionally mistakes will be made, but we can learn from them and not make them again in the future

So it's ok to murder a few innocent people along the way, so that we can exact revenge on the guilty ones? Nice.

That's what it is, incidentally; it's not a punishment or a deterrent, it's revenge, pure and simple.

2) how do you differentiate between different degrees of child killing to decide who gets a death sentence?

"if it was sexual in nature!"

Just so we're clear, you're saying that it's ok to kill kids so long as you don't bum them first? (Or, presumably, afterwards?)

3) do you accept that miscarriages will happen and thus would you be content for your son to be executed for a crime he id not commit?

"i aim would be to crate a system that meant that could not happen,"

Right. You realise we're discussing the real world here, yes, not the cloud cuckoo land you have taking up space between your ears? Why not aim to create a system where there's no crime and everyone just gets along, that'd be even better!

do you think your dad would want the murderers dead?

answer me honestly........would you want him to die.

Of course he would. But that [i]does not make it right.[/i] There are plenty of things that people want to do but aren't acceptable in a civilised society. You can justify rape using the same straw man argument; it's not acceptable to see a cute girl in the street and forcibly go out for a bike ride, even if I [i]really really [/i]want to. Was it buy one, get one free on stupid pills this morning or something?

Twoundred! 😀

actully Ton crime is low and has been falling for years.

What is 'Ton crime'? Being a poor internet troll? Posting obscene videos of two grown men wrestling in their underpants? Cos the latter definitely deserves a spell in clink. No need for that kind of 'orribleness at all. 😐

ton crime is the theft of punctuation. Actually Ton, crime.............is a something altogether differnt

Why not take the next logical step and do away the the judial system as well..
Lynch mobs as part of 'The Big Society'

Yeah but the thing is though, most of those on here advocating harsh penalties would be cowering under their beds if such a thing came to pass.

Can I have zero tolerance and much harsher enforcement of motoring crime? 3000 ish killed by cars. 3or 4 times as many as murdered in other ways.

murdered

Usually not "murdered" using a car though TeeJ.

Why don't we just make the death penalty available as a sentence to those who want to re-introduce it and the rest of us can carry on as is?

ton you seem not to have followed the baby p case the suspect was not convicted of murder but a much less serious crime. sort of exoses your argument a bit.
"Both men were found not guilty of the child's murder or manslaughter at the Old Bailey.

They were convicted of the specific charge of "causing or allowing the death of a child or vulnerable person", under section five of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004."

deadlydarcy - Member

murdered

Usually not "murdered" using a car though TeeJ.

really? dead is dead. People on this thread are getting all excised about a much smaller number of deaths.

If motoring law was much more harshly enforced then we could reduce the number of deaths greatly.

People on this thread are getting all excised

It's the custom, you know...

Quiet day TJ? You should have come riding with us and getting rid of some of that pent-up frustration 🙂

crankboy, i was trying to refer to the kiddy rape conviction.

Good day out Druidh? I got called to work anyway so am going out shortly so its just as well i did not.

A bit wet 😉 Fine day out though - we even stopped for Sunday Roast!

If motoring law was much more harshly enforced then we could reduce the number of deaths greatly.

Like speeding, perhaps?

TandemJeremy - Member
A6 shap used to be one of my faves for speeding - wide,not much traffic fast as you like.

Posted 3 months ago # Report-Post

😯

No problem at all CFH. I';d prefer the cops concentrated on drunk driving, unservicable vehicles and speeding in urban areas first.

You see - I have gone speeding at speeds that would make your eyes bleed. But I never moan if caught

Ah, so the law doesn't apply to you as much then?

I have gone speeding at speeds that would make your eyes bleed.

****. Sorry to be so offensive, but really! Pathetic.

TJ din't mention speeding though did he? Just 'motoring offences' of which speeding is just one. There's drink-driving, driving without due care, driving a vehicle in an unroadworthy state, etc. These things contribute to road deaths.

And he's sed he would cop the penalty if caught, so he's accepting he should be punished more harshly along with everyone else.

Anyway Flashy you've never driven over the speed limit? Course you have, so be quiet. Hypocrite.

Wow.

Just about everything that's wrong with STW in one thread...

Of course the law applies to me - and if I chose to break it I don't bleat if caught.

****. Sorry to be so offensive

You're not sorry though are you? Otherwise you woon't have sed it.

So - random breath tests for drunk drivers? get all drunk drivers off the road would save more lives than are murdered annually.

If you can ensure that only drunk drivers get randomly stopped, I'd go for that.

ton "crankboy, i was trying to refer to the kiddy rape conviction." my mistake . To expand on that though, he was convicted of kiddy rape on the word of a 4 year old who acted it out with toys . Do you feel sure a jury would have had the courage to convict him on that evidence if in doing so they knew he was to hang .

One of the side effects of the death penalty, aside from the apparently acceptable to some execution of the innocent, is the escaping justice of the guilty where the jury dare not convict even in a strong case for fear or distaste of the result.

Nope - blockade the roads and stop every person 🙂 zero tolerence

like i said earlier.........if found guilty, then that's enough for me.

innocent people may get wrongly executed.........it is innocent people that get murdered.

See, the thing with TJ is very much OK for him to break the law but not others. Speeding is apparently OK as long as it isn't in a car.

I remember him getting extremely incensed about riding on pavements but then will argue that it is perfectly fine to ignore all traffice rules if you are on the road whilst riding a bike, RLJ for example.

Gotta back the good captain on this one.

Nope - blockade the roads and stop every person zero tolerence

Is that the case for ALL traffic offenses or just the ones [b]you[/b] deem fit?

Yeah, but basically, an innocent person wrongly executed = murdered then, Ton.

So you'd have to execute the executioner and all those complicit in the murder. 😐

You jolly well have not really thought the concept of Justice through very much, have you?

Oh, and against the death penalty FWIW.

Coyote - not at all. The difference is about accepting your punishment if caught. I only RLJ for my safety. I have gone speeding for fun. I would never bleat if caught.

See, the thing with TJ is very much OK for him to break the law but not others

I don't think TJ has ever said that, actually. I think you've just made that up.

What he has said, is that if it's safe to do so, a bit of speeding or RLJing is ok, but be prepared to accept the consequences if caught.

But hey, if you wanna be so binary about it, then that's up to you I spose.

teej and everyone..........i have enjoyed this debate today.
we cant all think the same i know and i understand that.........but now i feel it is time for me to leave the debate.

night all.

So it's OK to ride on pavements then, for safety like?

Yep, as long as you're not causing any harm or danger to anyone else. They do in many other countries, and people aren't dropping like flies as a result....

S'about common sense and being responsible towards others, innit? Most rules are so cos too many people are idiots and can't be trusted to think sensibly.

Most rules are so cos too many people are idiots and can't be trusted to think sensibly.

Amen to that brother! However the question was aimed at TJ.

Wot about knife crime TJ. Would you like the polis to have random house searches in case folk have knives that could be used to injure/kill. Of paedophilia - random interception of network traffic to detect images etc?

No conviction is ever truly safe. The most emotive crimes have least safe trials. Imprisonment is reversible.

Can someone relate ths to TJ? I don't think it's bullying, nasty or snidey, so if should be ok.

If you killed a pedestrian while speeding on your motorcycle, would you be happy to accept a sentence equivalent to murder?

Otherwise all I'll say is I CBA arguing against the pro death penalty types, cos they'll never understand-too thick you see.

it's only a bear guys, it was killing folk and got shot.

is it liberal pussy day on STW today?

For all you trolls, I'm starting something on the Polar bear thread, care to join me?

What evidence do you have for your statement?

No need to be so defensive TJ, you may dismount the high horse at your leisure - I thought you of all people would be able to tell the difference between an statement of fact and personal opinion. As it happens, it is [i]my[/i] opinion that the sentences for [i]some[/i] crimes are too soft. It is also [i]my[/i] opinion that [i]some other[/i] sentences aren't soft enough.

I'm stating opinion and not fact, therefore I need not provide third party citations.

I am very anti-capital punishment which is the point of this thread, no?