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How do the other 165 countries not in the EU manage?
Name a country not cooperating with its neighbours in a similar way as per…
EFTA, NAFTA, Mercosur…
You don’t need to be in the EU… but not being part of the Customs Union or Single Market of the countries that surround us is just plain bonkers for the people that actually live and work here. The extra advantage for us of being an EU member above and beyond being in EFTA or the Customs Union or Single Market is that we had control, especially as a large country. Now the EU will carry on setting the rules, not just for its own members but also for its neighbours and trading partners (hint, that means us).
"Making brexit work" surely means getting an advantage out of it. As this is impossible then there is no making brexit work
Nonsense. The uK has been a sovereign (hate that word) nation state since 1705. The integration between England Scotland and wales is closer and more ingrained than anything between EU states. The two simply don’t compare. That’s why Scotland leaving would be far more catastrophic for Scotland than the UK leaving Europe ever could be.
Not English by any chance, he asked innocently.
For what it’s worth, I’m a Scotsman and against independence. But the same arguments that work for Brexit work for Scots independence. I reckon their both wrong, but I can understand why TJ and other pro-independence folk disagree with me.
It's a golden age for anyone involved in the business of red tape, paperwork and bureaucracy, it created another 10K civil service jobs and decades of work for consultants to duplicate the processes of various European institutions, so it's not all bad.
“Making brexit work” surely means getting an advantage out of it.
Well that's the core of the issue. It could mean anything to anyone, depending on your sympathies. That's why they make political slogans like this.
To me, it signals that they want to start the process of rapprochement, but he's still having to rule out CM/SU for now because of the political reality. But to others, it might mean that they are going to make Britain into a golden city on a hill. Anything to anyone. It's not even a policy commitment, it's just a slogan. Like 'Brexit means Brexit' or 'we're all in this together'. Just meaningless slogans designed to evoke a sentiment in the listener. And the more listeners it evokes a positive sentiment in, the more votes you get. It has no actual practical policy-based meaning whatsoever!
Blaming everything on Brexit is letting the government off their repeated failure and rather like brexiteers blaming everything on the EU
An excellent point.
But the same arguments that work for Brexit work for Scots independence.
they really do not at at all. Thread drift and we have done it too many times 🙂
Many remainers simply don’t understand or refuse to acknowledge that for millions of people, the UK already was a mess for ordinary folk whilst we were in the EU.
1) This is a lie.
2) I thought you were flouncing? You see fit to lecture us about leaving the EU and yet you can't cope with leaving a forum thread. Which part of "leave" didn't you understand?
Enlighten me. Seeing as you seem to know how I’ve suffered I’m all ears as to how you think my life has been materially damaged by being out of the EU.
I'm lead to believe that you're loaded, so your life has likely been "materially damaged" far less than most. The initial infighting which sparked it aside, brexit was a vehicle to empower the rich.
Opportunity costs.
There have been a lot of those.
But why are we talking about the downsides @dazh, the question is about benefits. Go on, enlighten us. Tangible ones if you could.
One upside - many of the idiots have outed themselves good and proper
Couldn't agree more!
Yeah, there's a slim chance that might actually precipitate an end to the endless series of shit politicians we've had for decades, when we finally realise that they actually need to get shit done and be competent. People might realise that empty slogans don't actually help. The shit might finally hit the fan.
Some good new words and phrases.
Brexit, remoaner, brexiteer, bregret etc all fun.
Dazh - I just asked the question and am still waiting for a coherent and quantifiable benefit but shall be avoiding the pubs in Todmorden for a while anyway.
Bexit benefits in the short term are indeed thin on the ground. Longer term benefits could take years or even decades to reveal themselves.
For me, Bexit is only one symptom of the malaise affecting this nation. Rejoining the EU tomorrow might make it easier for the middle classes to pursue their continental lifestyles, but would do nothing to fix the fundamental problems we have.
Unless we can reform our political system to embed 'proper' democracy (where the make-up of Parliament better reflects votes cast) and foster a culture of more honest political debate, the UK will continue to sink beneath the waves.
EDIT - Post I was quoting is deleted so I am removing this to save the Mods time.
Thank you Mods.
The uK has been a sovereign (hate that word) nation state since 1705.
The UK is a state, but it is not a nation state.
All economies are struggling with those non-brexit problems.
But they’re all doing way better in terms of coping than the UK.
Well, not really. There are 10 EU economies with higher inflation than the UK, and all the rest are lower.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe
Nah... I'm really struggling...
What was it, that was supposed to be so good?
One thing... just one...?
I think we have (genuinely) only had 'those that wanted out, regardless of cost or benefit, get to feel a sense of victory on the subject'
You could argue for the "sovereignty" garbage as well.
Alao lol at Daz who has "moved on with his life" by constantly talking about Brexit... still
And that’s even worse. I will get very **** angry if you call me a Brexiteer.
Labour’s position is a hard brexit position. A vote for Labour is a vote for hard brexit.
Yes it’s (mostly) happened and therefore it’s maintaining a hard brexit rather than implementing it, but it’s the same brexit either way.
Just dropping in again for a quick check – anyone found any benefits yet?
I know there are other things that are also bad, this thread wasn’t meant to be about all the bad things that Brexit, COVID, Ukraine war, Boris, Trump etc, etc, etc have caused. It was meant to be for the Brexit champions to remind me of what we have gained beyond being able to paint crowns on glasses and having different coloured paperwork.
Anything? Anyone?
Nope.
Does the fact that Brexit sounds like a breakfast cereal count as a good thing? 🤔
Rejoining the EU tomorrow might make it easier for the middle classes to pursue their continental lifestyles, but would do nothing to fix the fundamental problems we have.
TBH some people wanted to live and work abroad,that vote removed their freedom of movement rights and stopped them able to work in any other country than their ‘host’ country.
My in laws retired abroad as their state pension would go further in Spain than the U.K.
The only issue the middle class have is the 90/180 day rule so an inconvenience but a pensioner cannot now afford to retire to Spain unless they have a lot more money.
(And the queues at Dover and passport control:-) )
Not a benefit because of the why but...
Irish passport office have streamlined the process of getting a passport sorted.
Mind you I wouldn't need one if I could retire/move to Europe on a British one.
For the vast majority hardly anything has changed.
It has, they (and you it seems) just don’t realise it yet.
Well I’ve not been able to return to the U.K. for the last few years as this would cancel my Spanish visa application.
My driving licence became invalid for nearly a year, now I’ve got a month before it’s invalid again.
Not things I was expecting but I’m not the only person in this situation.
My brother in law cannot return to the UK with his wife and child. At least, not by right. It may be possible if he gets a job and applies for visa etc. I don't think he's bothered yet but I wonder what his retirement planning is as he's older than me.
[i]My brother in law cannot return to the UK with his wife and child. [/i] Are you counting that as a benefit? Don't you like them much then? 😉
Mind you I wouldn’t need one if I could retire/move to Europe on a British one.
TBH you can still retire in spain with a British passport,it’s just the income/savings (health insurance/S1)requirements are much higher than before.
Without a residency/eu passport you are stuck with the 90/180 day rule, so can’t do 6 months in each country.(tbh unless you’ve done 5 years residency you can’t do this either)
Enlighten me. Seeing as you seem to know how I’ve suffered I’m all ears as to how you think my life has been materially damaged by being out of the EU.
Purely due to Brexit you've lost your Freedom of Movement and since Brexit is driving up core UK inflation pretty much everything you spend your income on has got dearer. Would Putin have invaded without Brexit?
But the bigger impact is what has occurred on the back of Brexit, and what has now been put in place - as I keep saying, Brexit isn't the destination, it's the vehicle. This hard right-wing Govt (probably) wouldn't be here without Brexit, the damage to politics (probably) wouldn't have occurred without Brexit - how about losing your right to protest, or the billions that disappeared during Covid (£37bn Track & Trace, Sunak's unassured give-aways, Tory VIP PPE) or that they've linked us up with trade deals on the other side of the world which will have obligations that haven't been examined and/or aren't publicly known (some just to make it so we can't go back into the EU)?
These are just a few - wake up FFS can't you see the trajectory, this isn't something that can be turned around in a few years - they've managed to loosen/dismantle the post-war consensus and the very people who benefitted from it (and would benefit) are the ones they've got persuaded its dilution.
For what it’s worth, I’m a Scotsman and against independence.
If you're against independence then being a "Scotsman" is no different to being Cockney or a Yorkshireman.
My brother in law cannot return to the UK with his wife and child.
Are you counting that as a benefit? Don’t you like them much then? 😉
It may be a benefit for him, with an elderly father in the UK requiring increasing amounts of help.
Well I’ve not been able to return to the U.K. for the last few years as this would cancel my Spanish visa application.
Is the rule that you're not allowed to leave the EU, or Schengen, or Spain? TBF this sounds like a bad Spanish rule for immigrants than a Brexit problem. ISTR the US has the same silly rule...
Would Putin have invaded without Brexit?
Yes, without question.
For what it’s worth, I’m a Scotsman and against independence.
If you’re against independence then being a “Scotsman” is no different to being Cockney or a Yorkshireman.
You’d think so but having lived in Yorkshire for thirty years I can assure you you’re wrong. Strange. But true.
TBH you can still retire in spain with a British passport,it’s just the income/savings (health insurance/S1)requirements are much higher than before.
The economic migrants who never get referenced by the tabloid press.
TBH you can still retire in spain with a British passport,it’s just the income/savings (health insurance/S1)requirements are much higher than before.
Yep I'm aware but €75 is easier than reaching that savings threshold.
You’d think so but having lived in Yorkshire for thirty years I can assure you you’re wrong. Strange. But true.
As a Yorkshireman who lives in Scotland, disagree.
TBF this sounds like a bad Spanish rule for immigrants than a Brexit problem.
It's quite a leap of logic to say it's not a Brexit problem when a pre-existing rule suddenly applies to UK nationals as a direct and deliberate result of Brexit. Using the same logic, I guess you think that 90 day residency restrictions, import duties, etc aren't Brexit problems either.
If anything it goes to show that EU countries do indeed have lots of control over thier borders after all.
With a non-lucrative visa, as well as having to prove you have money and health insurance you're not allowed to work in Spain.
If you want to work in Spain it's more difficult
https://www.spainvisa.eu/visa-types/work-visa/
If anything it goes to show that EU countries do indeed have lots of control over thier borders after all.
Brexit was always about "taking back control" of things we already had control of but people were too pigshit thick to comprehend. Borders, measurements, coins, stamps on glasses. Brexit has changed precisely nothing that the people who voted for it voted for.
Brexit has changed precisely nothing that the people who voted for it voted for.
Its meant more non white immigrants which is the opposite of what many voted for
[i]Its meant more non white immigrants which is the opposite of what many voted for[/i]
Yeah like those bloody Scots moving into Yorkshire with their gingerness on show for all to see!
🙂
It’s quite a leap of logic to say...
Hold on, champ, we didn't even hear back on what the rule is...
we didn’t even hear back on what the rule is…
Pre-existing immigration rules for 3rd party (non-EU) countries that EU countries have. You'd need to check the rules for the specific country requirements, Spanish immigration rules may vary a bit from say French, or German ones, given they can broadly set thier own standards within the framework of EU law.
For example you won't get a spanish visa unless you are:
A) Loaded, or comforatably retired on a passive income
B) Have skills that are deemed to be in demand / they have a shortage of
Do keep up at the back.
politecameraaction
Free MemberTBF this sounds like a bad Spanish rule for immigrants than a Brexit problem.
It's a Spanish rule that we weren't affected by when we were in the EU, which we are now because of brexit. Hard to see how that could be any more of a brexit problem tbh
You’d need to check the rules for the specific country requirements...
Yeah, that's exactly the question that's been put to the person who raised it. What is the rule?
It seems like you need to pay EUR 10 to get permission to travel out of Spain while your residency card is pending. But EU citizens always needed a residency card so leaving the EU didn't make a difference here, did it?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, you'll need a tourist visa if that's what you mean by the 10€ fee, but I imagine that will simply be built into the price of a plane ticket or you'll just have to tick a box when buying a ticket.
If you are applying for residency in 'a' host country, in Spain at least, you'll now need to be in spain for 5 years I think, on a more 'proper' type of visa which will need to be renewed yearly at the start.. And if you leave Spain for any legnth of time, it's all re-set back to square one.
And once you become 'resident' you will also become tax resident in Spain rather than the UK.
Or do you mean comming from a position of a Spanish resident traveling to another EU country?
Muy complicado, as they say...