I am sure that the folks that voted double "B" Boris and Brexit will continue to support both "concepts" as i have said elsewhere people likes of Blyth and Darlington have little to loose so the impact of Brexit and Boris actually doing ****all for them will make little difference to their lives.
I dont think Boris will stand at the next election- it will likley be Rabb or Sunak and they will promise the earth once more and win (unless labour strikes a coalition with the SNP)
Strange as all Boris has to do to keep the Red wall is actually chuck them a few scraps
the “we will prosper” line in full effect
Any switched on interviewer would follow that line with this question:
"How will we prosper" and keep asking until the bluster is exhausted.
A switched on producer would allow the segment to run so that a filibuster defence would not work.
Strange as all Boris has to do to keep the Red wall is actually chuck them a few scraps
He's going to walk by the end of March, so can't be arsed.
The appalling reality is that when he likely goes in Spring we still have 4 more years of these utter shysters.
And the years after that. The key thing we've [re]learned from this is that a huge portion of the UK electorate are thick as pig shit and can't be relied upon to undertake rational thought. They will believe whatever short, easy to believe bollocks that they are fed by the Eton toffs, who they regard as their natural betters.
The scum will keep voting Tory for a while yet. This won't end in 4 years.
So glad my kids have dual nationality
The key thing we’ve [re]learned from this is that a huge portion of the UK electorate are thick as pig shit and can’t be relied upon to undertake rational thought.
Genuine question - how much of this is due to the education system here in the UK? We don't really teach "politics" or recent history (like 60's/70's onwards) as a subject, there's massive voter apathy (which I accept is probably partially connected to the FPTP system) and there's almost no engagement from a young age as to what politics is, how it works at every level from council to central Government.
There seems to be a very vocal percentage of people who are happy to shout DEMOCRACY and WILL OF THE PEOPLE when it comes to not having any further say on Brexit (no more referendums, we won, you lost, leave means leave) but then when it comes to local issues they're demanding to be consulted and vote on literally every measure. Can't have it both ways and I suspect that most people (especially loud shouty Brexiteers) don't actually know what democracy means.
Can’t have it both ways and I suspect that most people (especially loud shouty Brexiteers) don’t actually know what democracy means.
It's the same reason responsible parents put locks on the kitchen cupboards when they've got toddlers in the house.
How many in the uk are actually taught about UK? Details like why so many Irish starved unlike other European countries due to government policies. Or highland clearances? What about how many “native” languages are there in the UK? How about Cornish rebellions? Etc etc etc. Or for another snippet, how about the English armada that followed the Spanish Armada? As for the end of empire, cod wars, mau mau, suez, Korea, etc... maybe a rounder framing of the uk would help. The uk is a medium sized country, time to understand what that means.
Or if you can't be arsed to read a book how about just going onto iplayer and watching a History of Modern Britain?
Marr overdoes the praise for Thatcher, of course, but the whole series deals well with how this country had to adapt post-1945.
How Wilson, for example, couldn't criticise US involvement in Vietnam as he would have liked because "we can't kick our creditors in the balls".
Or how we got Polaris stationed in the Holy Loch, turning Glasgow into a first strike target (against the wishes of our government).
Sovereignty being traded for the support of a bigger player - who'd have think it.
Not exactly what you asked, but about half the secondary history curriculum when I was there (turn of the century) was Germany and Europe 1919-39.
Rise of extreme political parties, economic strife and how it affected the population, european nations applying restrictions and sanctions and so on.
Probably only about 20% of the population would have the intelligence to apply it to what is happening now.
(apologies for Godwin)
Interesting point about education, but I don't think it's the issue here. People towards the right hand side of the intelligence distribution curve made the mistake of assuming that people towards the left hand side operate in the same way, just a little bit slower. They assumed that rational debate, facts and the truth would educate people and let them understand the situation. Whilst this works with most people of a certain intelligence level, it doesn't work with people of low intelligence. Quite often because they are literally too stupid to realise just how stupid they actually are.
So they just respond to easily digested soundbites and whatever snippets they are fed by those who know how to manipulate them.
Imagine you are speaking to a slightly dopey golden Labrador. You tell it in great detail that if it goes round the back of the house there is a huge bowl of pedigree chum and another Labrador on heat. Big comfy blankets and a nice fire to sit next to. You know that the dog would be really happy with all that but it can't understand you it just stands there and watches you wondering what the **** you are on about.
Till the guy next door, who has just installed a brand new dog mincing machine in his garden, and signed a lucrative contract with a plant fertiliser manufacturer, shouts in a very loud, clear voice.
"Rover, HERE"
And off Rover trots, to his doom
If you want to really see how far through the looking glass we are, this is a post from my mate, who's a Lexiteer, this morning. He's an old school socialist. this is how he sees it:
WE can be a forward-thinking entity in control of our own destiny and able to make and implement our own laws and fiscal policy for the first time in decades. Able to make trade deals with countries without devolving those deals to an unelected body who impose and collect tariffs into their own coffers. An organisation whose accounts have never been signed off by the auditors in it's entire existence.
It will be painful and most of the blame for that must lie with Cameron, May and Johnson but a good slice must also lie with the EU who have tried their hardest to make the UK pay for its impudence in thinking it could stand up for itself. Britain will be standing when the EU has folded Italy and the Netherlands are favourites to leave next. Italy will NOT pay back what it owes to the ECB and Germany. It can't. Poland would be a strong candidate to be ejected. Roll on January.
He is, of course, a boomer who is very comfortably off. I've pointed out to him that when he says 'it will be painful' he's not the one who will be feeling the pain, it's the young who are going to pay the price for this. It's like talking to a wall. He's as rabid in his hatred of the EU as Farage
I can’t think how stupid I’d feel if I’d been led up the garden path by a few multi millionaires to vote for something they sold as ‘good for you little people’ whilst moving their personal wealth and companies offshore.
Come on dude, it sounds a bit familiar don't you think?
Do one of your frothy paragraphs for the current system and see how they match up👍
Education is of course the key, the know-it-alls will deny it, as it kinda points the finger at them.
That's a lot of words to use to ultimately say nothing.
Education is of course the key, the know-it-alls will deny it, as it kinda points the finger at them.
The onus is also on the 'to be educated' not to dick around at school, disrupting lessons and thinking they are being clever...
The onus is also on the ‘to be educated’ not to dick around at school, disrupting lessons and thinking they are being clever…
Otherwise you might become PM.
Education is of course the key, the know-it-alls will deny it, as it kinda points the finger at them.
There is a limit to how far you can educate. Despite the fact that they spend years at school being educated in [ for example] English and Maths, loads if people will never really understand them, as evidenced by the exam results.
It's the same with European politics and Brexit. Some people will never understand, because they are not capable of understanding it. Nothing to do with them not having been educated on it.
Otherwise you might become PM.
BOOM!
Creating destruction... and not giving a damn about how that effects everyone else... acting as if the rules don't apply to you... if you're at the right level of our everlasting class system, that's clearly PM material...
Some people will never understand, because they are not capable of understanding it.
Not sure if it's "not capable" so much as "prefer to believe alternative facts".
There seems to be a very vocal percentage of people who are happy to shout DEMOCRACY and WILL OF THE PEOPLE when it comes to not having any further say on Brexit
And for those people, they are just soundbites to repeat, with no understanding of their meaning.
Interesting point about education, but I don’t think it’s the issue here. People towards the right hand side of the intelligence distribution curve made the mistake of assuming that people towards the left hand side operate in the same way, just a little bit slower. They assumed that rational debate, facts and the truth would educate people and let them understand the situation. Whilst this works with most people of a certain intelligence level, it doesn’t work with people of low intelligence. Quite often because they are literally too stupid to realise just how stupid they actually are.
So they just respond to easily digested soundbites and whatever snippets they are fed by those who know how to manipulate them.
The terminally hard of understanding, it's pointless to try.
As the phrase goes, never try to argue with stupid.
Till the guy next door, who has just installed a brand new dog mincing machine in his garden, and signed a lucrative contract with a plant fertiliser manufacturer, shouts in a very loud, clear voice.
“Rover, HERE”
And off Rover trots, to his doom
This doesn't mean that the Labrador is ‘dopey’. It means that you are dopey expecting it to understand your language (and by leaving the door open to danger)
The bright fellow next door not only speaks the language, but got his job done with the least effort. You lost, and (because of you) your student/dog also lost. ‘Man/dog-eat-dog/win vs lose’ world ‘wins’. Wordy educationalist loses, yet still blames the student.
*Edit - This is a terrible analogy as it stands 🤣. Just riffing.
I think people become educated in things they are interested in, its not about being incapable of understanding it. I understood maths when I was learning it but I had no interest in it and did badly at exams.
Whoa there, there's a few with some pretty offensive ideas here💩, I'm scared to ask but what are you planning for these people who can't be educated?
Camps for re-education by labour, owned by amazon.
Once the machines are good enough we can even stop feeding them.
I’m scared to ask but what are you planning for these people who can’t be educated?
Not sure it's relevant what "we" propose.. just look at what Truss, Kwarting, Patel, Raab & co proposed, and are implementing... pay them less, take away their workers' rights, punish them financially if they don't work hard enough in your eyes despite the low pay and job insecurity... and stop them fleeing the country and getting jobs in bars, hotels and in construction etc in other countries where the pay and conditions are kept higher. And I haven't even mentioned the NHS...
Whilst they're doing the above - assuming they're sticking to the script - the cabinet will take a mid morning toilet break during which they will take a massive turd on anything related to the arts.
So Johnson is starting to cave in...
@ferrals:
Back at the time of the referendum I did a back-of-a-fag-packet-that-happened-to-be-an-excel-spreadsheet calculation and found that for every pound Wales contributed to the EU, we got £1.17 back. Problem is leave-inclined people just dismissed it as ‘it’s not about the money.’
I did similar and came up with a rough figure of £1.20. At the time a lot of my work colleagues and family were/are (some have seen the error of the whole thing) full-on Leavers and I did start to doubt my choice of wanting to stay in, thinking the majority are usually right. Thankfully reading stuff here and through the links everyone provided together with my own research made me go against the popular opinion surrounding me. I wish I had stood up for my view more back then as it may have had an effect but it's very hard to be the lone voice on such an emotive subject.
All this is a form of economic eugenics, isolate your workforce (at all levels by restriction of movement) then .....
1. Introduce cheaper highly educated immigrants (increase competition drive down overheads)
2. Provide the people in 1 with a cheap static workforce
3. De regulate as much as you can
Camps for re-education by labour, owned by amazon.
Once the machines are good enough we can even stop feeding them.
Pretty much what Brexit hastens then....?
Whoa there, there’s a few with some pretty offensive ideas here
Your good self included.
"Let's smash stuff up and **** everyone over out of petty jealousy".
Don't be going all snowflakey on us now.
Also you cant fight ideology with a spreadsheet- mainly due to the fact that the spreadsheet doesn't really apply to folks at the very top or the very bottom
So Johnson is starting to cave in…
from that...
Ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels were advised that the UK’s move on the so-called “evolution clause”, ensuring there is recourse to unilateral tariffs should standards significantly diverge, also left work to be done on the “architecture” of how it would work in practice.
Barnier said there were three scenarios: a deal struck by the end of this week allowing for ratification by the European parliament on 28 December; a breakdown in the talks; or agreement being found at the end of the year and the deal being “provisionally applied” to avoid a no-deal exit, with MEPs giving their consent in 2021.
What I posted...
So when do we reckon Boris pops out and says we tried but unfortunately we have no deal, then blames it on the EU.
80% probability that is exactly what happens. Probably just after Christmas, when MPs are utterly powerless, and the public uninterested.
I reckon there is still a 10% chance of a bare bones deal this month, with 10 year tapering down on fishing rights, and reciprocative tariff action against lowering of standards limited to same top level TARIC codes (so no retribution in different sectors) for the same period.
10% chance of a fudge that keeps goods moving tariff free in both directions while the “final details” are ironed out and implemented Q1 2021. USA would complain, but WTO would push any process into the long grass ‘till the POTUS changes to a sane one.
Percentages haven't changed for me. And the path do a deal still means the UK accepting that they can't diverge on standards while binding the EU's hands on reciprocating on tariff"a free access.
and in comes the wrecking handgrenade again
"Barnier warned, however, that the negotiations on EU access to British fishing waters had gone backwards. The UK tabled a paper on fisheries Monday only to take it off the negotiating table on Thursday, he claimed."
this is the tactic all along. deliberately sabotage any chance of a deal by moving the goalposts or by some action that enrages the EU side
I struggle to understand working class demands for sovereignty... have traced my families history back to the 1400s all i can see is the negative impact of sovereignty on ordinary families from the Border Reivers to The enclosures acts to world wars to the industrial revolution to destroying the miners/unions to brexit.
This is all a logical extension ... sovereignty 2.0 if you like or the ability of a govt to control its population.
We are not the bastion of democracy never have been... its a illusion supported by PR, House of Lords and a neutered monarchy.
and in comes the wrecking handgrenade again
They'll be a taper period, on both fishing rights and a ban on "punishment" tariffs... if there is a deal. Can kicking... it's the only way, politically, for Johnson to get a deal past his backers... the UK is using fishing rights to get a period where they can deregulate without fear of a trade war with our main market. They hope that when crunch time comes... in... probably 10 years... that the UK will be in a stronger position and the EU won't go near removing tariff"a free trade in response to our lower standards. [they're probably wrong, but hey, some of them will make a killing during that time, and then move onto other "emerging markets" once they've made their quick buck here]
I wish I had stood up for my view more back then as it may have had an effect but it’s very hard to be the lone voice on such an emotive subject.
I wish I'd followed through on my idea of writing down all these arguments in a pamphlet and standing on Queen St with a sandwich board saying 'Ask me about the EU' before the referendum.
Thegeneralist is a Daily Mash staff writer and I claim my two Brexit potatoes.
If you want to really see how far through the looking glass we are, this is a post from my mate, who’s a Lexiteer, this morning. He’s an old school socialist. this is how he sees it:
And of course the problem is not just down to the Tories and the tabloids, Labour have also been feeding him these lies for the past 4 years.
We are not the bastion of democracy never have been… its a illusion supported by PR, House of Lords and a neutered monarchy.
Agreed. I'd never appreciated just how little this country has changed in terms of democracy over the last milenia. I used to think we were a relatively advanced, meriticious society run for the good of the majority.
How wrong I was.
Agreed. I’d never appreciated just how little this country has changed in terms of democracy over the last milenia. I used to think we were a relatively advanced, meritorious society run for the good of the majority.
TBH Raab and Patel were right in that book "Britannia Unchained" mentioned earlier, the British are lazy and entitled. However, the were right for the wrong reasons and the cure they proposed was simply cutting off the life support.
It is a schoolboy effort with cherry picked examples being used in glorious defiance of any contextual relevance.
Identified them as cheerleaders for the thing though. More useful idiots, in their own way.
Thegeneralist is a Daily Mash staff writer and I claim my two Brexit potatoes.
Sorry, there's a war food shortage on.
You can only have half a potato.
I struggle to understand working class demands for sovereignty
Especially when I've yet to hear anyone who can actually define it.
I caught 30 mins of LBC & JoB today, yet another bloke calling in demanding sovereignty and then been utterly unable to describe it.
Beexit definition of "Sovrunty"
"The ability of the UKs government to dictate the management of capital and resources without recourse to a democratic process"
The "sovereignty" thing is just a nonsense soundbite designed to appeal to dim-witted jingoists.
As such, it's a work of genius, if your goal is to win power. Not so much, if you want to do anything with that power.
