@oldmanmtb2 simply because people are told look over there, media, class, call it what you like but far too many are uninterested in understanding who is actually shafting them.
The “sovereignty” thing is just a nonsense soundbite designed to appeal to dim-witted jingoists.
As such, it’s a work of genius, if your goal is to win power. Not so much, if you want to do anything with that power.
Dog whistle populism.
Wins elections, can deliver on substance.
TBH I think that the EU hit Boris in the plums with the no deal air and road connectivity contingency requiring reciprocal fishing access and actually being a deal.
I think he assumed a 6 month freebie on this, no deal and wto he'd get away(for a while as they span plates) but no deal and no flights/road connectivity is hard to sell that everything's fine and going as planned.
My betting is also that Johnson finds a way to row back on any concessions made once he has been spoken to by his masters. Probably by chucking in another hand grenade
I also suspect that somone like Sunak who appears to have more than two braincells and at least knows the rough whereabouts of reality has told him what a disaster no deal will be
Talking of LBC. An awfully nice bloke just painted the rosy picture of his no deal dream. Take THAT, naysayers. Now get shoulder to the wheel and quit complaining. There are two options (if indeed you choose to stay in the UK, and I realise that choice has effectively been removed for most)
1. ‘Stay in the UK and win while cheering’.
Or
2. ‘Stay in the UK and lose while whining’*
Here are the benefits of the no deal Brexit:
* I suppose there is always wildcard 3: ‘Stay in the UK and whine while surviving’
Oh the whining and pain ain't going away with a deal scenario, the pain will be delayed but no chance of any real change with a bozzer deal.
Are you ever going to outline what "real change" you're hoping will result from a No Deal end to the transition period? Or... as others might put it... what are the benefits? I assume by "change", that you mean "improve", rather than a change for the worse... but that might be naive of me...
Are you ever going to outline what “real change” you’re hoping will result from a No Deal end to the transition period? Or… as others might put it… what are the benefits? I assume by “change”, that you mean “improve”, rather than a change for the worse… but that might be naive of me…
They haven't managed it in four and a half years, so I wouldn't hold my breath...
yes excess - I would love to hear what benefits there are from any form of brexit.
Please?
Disaster capitalism or disaster socialism. Two versions of years zero. Two versions that see poverty and suffering for most whilst a small group at the top get richer.
MMRO as i have said before i still circulate in red wall land, most of these people we "talk about" actually don't believe that the brexiteer cheerleaders have anything but poorfolks best interests at heart - they are not disinterested they do lack an enquiring mind set (please note i am talking about my own family) this is due to being fed shit by media, they all have a limited education and have little capacity to disect/investigate and distill all the information available and they have not been exposed to the wider world beyond Benidorm (i repeat i am talking about my family) they are vulnerable, confused and poorly educated.. not disinterested it just looks like that on the outside looking in.
My cousins son is 25 years old, father left before he was born, single mother living in the arse end of South Shields, the kid stoped going to school at 14 drink drugs a father at 16 never had a job.. his mum.asked me to give him a job - i said i employ IT Graduates? What can i give him to do? In the end i got him a job in a Bookies (dont ask how) he ***ed up and certainly robbed money. His mum asked me again and i said i cant i have already lost a friend over him.
These are the type of challenges that poor folk have, no structure, no parental guidance, no decent jobs, no value of education so when they are fed shit about their lives and its all someone else's fault (immigrants etc) its so easy for them to go "told you its not the fact i am lazy, poorly educated, dishonest.... its them immigrants.
They both voted leave.
As far as I can tell, @exsee wants everyone reduced to this. Because then no-one will have more mud than him and he won't have to feel jealous any more.
There is an expectation among this group of people that they should simply be given £36k wage, 3 bedroom semi, new car, two holidays a year for doing no more than turning up for 37.5 hours a week. In short everything that is wrong in their lives is someone elses fault.
In hindsight it was so easy to get these peole to vote leave.
Not shocked, I have said elsewhere, a friend of a friend was disowned by their parents for “getting ideas” they did their nursing training FFS. Parents started snooping around when they realised she was on fairly decent money.
at least knows the rough whereabouts of reality
😀
As far as I can tell, @exsee wants everyone reduced to this. Because then no-one will have more mud than him and he won’t have to feel jealous any more.
That's the conclusion I came to as well.
Unless exsee wants to explain any further I think we have our answer.
What strikes me as completely bonkers is that we have had over 3 years of talks and posturing to get to the position we are in now. If in all of that time they have failed to reach a common ground on lots of the important stuff what hope in hell do they have of sorting everything out in the next week or so? Plus if they do get a deal done by Jan 1st how the hell are businesses going to have time to plan for it all and get it working in that time?
Whatever happens now, regardless of whether it's a deal or not, we are heading for the wholesale chaos that NO Deal would bring. They've left it far too late and we now have zero bargaining chips left. The chaos that will ensue will give the EU the upper hand in any further negotiations as they can just say 'This is what you're getting. It's either this or you continue with the chaos you're in now.' The second we try and force any sort of concession from them we will have lost.
There are two courses of action available now:
We crash out with No Deal on Jan 1st.
The EU offer a delay/extension and we postpone the cliff edge for a few weeks/months.
If we agree to a postponement then all hell will break loose in the govt and the EU will know they don't have to concede on anything. Either way we, as the 'little people' are royally ****ed.
I wish I’d followed through on my idea of writing down all these arguments in a pamphlet and standing on Queen St with a sandwich board saying ‘Ask me about the EU’ before the referendum.
You would have been treated exactly the same as the Jehovah Witnesses and the old guy singing into a plastic warble microphone, a ring of clear street around you as everyone crosses to the other side to avoid you!
If in all of that time they have failed to reach a common ground on lots of the important stuff what hope in hell do they have of sorting everything out in the next week or so?
None. It's a stare-out contest now. Loser gets blamed for "walking away".
An utter, utter clusterf*ck.
I'm sorry did I just hear in that Richard Tice interview at 1:10 that we are going to have a huge tariff surplus on £100bn of imports? Does he think the EU pay us this money or is he hoping we don't notice that it's a taxation on the importer? The way he tried to sell UK holidays, weird fish and lamb dinners as a benefit of brexit (as though we can't currently do any of those) makes me think he just thinks we're stupid.
I've found a brexit benefit, we can re-purpose the infamous 'Latvian jokes' and just replace Latvian with uk, behold!
Latvian man not see neighbour for many day.
He go into house to see how is.
Is frozen to death.
Man very happy, family will eat well for a week now.
makes me think he just thinks we’re stupid.
Statisticaly speaking, He's right. 51% of people are of below average intelligence.
The tories red lines always meant no deal was possible other than a very thin one. This was deliberate.
Never any intention of getting a proper deal.
YOu cannot have tariff free access unless yo have a level playing field with robust sanctions for breaches. You cannot have no border on the island of ireland and no border in the north sea without staying in the CU. You cannot stay in the customs union and not be bound by european law.
I've just had the misfortune to be watching something on you tube and the add that popped up midway though was Furhrage punting financial advice and products.
Claiming that now that 'the country has decided to take back control of its destiny so too should you and take control of your financial future as the little man and women is being played by the big corporates'.
Bragging along the way about how his grandfather his father and also he served (served, mind you! not worked) for 20 years in the financial world.
What a clunt I feel sick just hearing his voice.
That Tice fella was just regurgitating what was in the Daily Heil the other day, he retweeted a pic of the column telling us to buy second homes as the house prices would fall and buy news cars to keep the British car industry alive. Another clunt.
He ( Barnier) complained that the UK believed that as it had made efforts on the level playing field, then the EU should reciprocate with concessions on fishing quotas and the frequency of negotiations. “But it does not work like this,” he said.
Barnier told MEPs the government had tabled a paper on fisheries on Monday, only to take it off the negotiating table on Thursday and that it was seeking to “renationalise” fishing boats by insisting vessels under the UK flag should be majority British owned.
They will believe whatever short, easy to believe bollocks that they are fed by the Eton toffs, who they regard as their natural betters.
I saw that the Spanish foreign minister commented on the negotiations as, and to quote, she said it was ' 19th Century Men Vs 21st Century Women.' Put aside the men v women bit(a few here in the past would have taken issue with it), I don't really need to explain what it means.
We have people here who have access to a particular education, who are in a lot of cases are educated beyond their intelligence, lording it over a population who have had a poor or little education, who still subconsciously 'doff their caps' to the 'elite' because they are well educated = must be intelligent right?
But until this
is stopped, I don't see how it will change. Its a very 'liberal' way of thinking, noble and honest with the belief that we can make people become better thinkers with better education, and thus make a better world...but perhaps its time for 'liberals' to adopt the same tactics as the right use on the population.They will believe whatever short, easy to believe bollocks
Oh yes, I absolutely want to share the mud a bit, that's the very essence of a fairer society for me. 15 million living in poverty in the UK, the system is broke.
A bozzer deal is looong term pain for short term gain.
Another one who seems to be suggesting culling the thickos in some way.
Stw should be ashamed, have you learnt nothing from the recent equality push. If you aren't actively working for a fairer society you are to blame for an unfair society. It's not enough to tick a box every few years.
I think it's broken. ^^^
makes me think he just thinks we’re stupid
While obviously he does think that... they real reason why he, and Banks, and others can just laugh off questions about the benefits of the process we are going through, is that they know we're well past the point of no return.
If you aren’t actively working for a fairer society you are to blame for an unfair society.
And No Deal in January furthers this laudable aim how, exactly?
The know-it-alls won't be accepting more of the same for the little people if their little bubbles are threatened too.
We need the spark to get a bit of that French anger going.
More ranting tomorrow people😤 it is definitely beneficial, we could all do more I guess👍
Oh yes, I absolutely want to share the mud a bit, that’s the very essence of a fairer society for me. 15 million living in poverty in the UK, the system is broke.
A bozzer deal is looong term pain for short term gain.
But it's not sharing the mud, it's leaving the peasents to fight over the mud whilst big business cream in even more profit via tax avoidance, offshoring etc. That's the tory master plan, it's in plain sight for all to see.
If borisis '**** business' remark, followed by literllay hiding in a fridge wasn't enough for you to see what's really afoot, here, I'm not sure what will be.
We need the spark to get a bit of that French anger going.
Now you are showing your true colours, the French are our neighbours, whether you like it or not, along with 26 other country nations, all acting as one big powerfull trading block. When we leave, they will vote in thier best interests, not ours, we revoked that opportunity all by ourselves.
Boris and co are in charge now Matty, for me they have more longevity with a deal under the belt.
Must dash now.
AaRrrrgh, I meant the French blockade style anger👍 many french in my family😁👊
Stw should be ashamed, have you learnt nothing from the recent equality push.
What recent equality push are you referring to?
If you aren’t actively working for a fairer society you are to blame for an unfair society.
I've tried, for years. But the problem is that the selfish have learned how to control the stupid, so the fair have no power to do what is needed.
excee = Jeremy Corbyn?
Boris and co are in charge now Matty
That should be a very real worry for the blue collar worker/wage slave in the UK, but somehow it isn't.
'Boris and co', as you put it, have been very transparent about lining the pockets of thier donors via de-regulation of peronal, environmental, animal and financial regulations.
AaRrrrgh, I meant the French blockade style anger👍 many french in my family😁👊
It doesn't change the meaning of your reply. You can single out the French if you like, but you'd be a fool to think they are own thier own, they are part of the largest trading bolck on earth, you know, ...the one we just left.
Another one who seems to be suggesting culling the thickos in some way.
Stw should be ashamed, have you learnt nothing from the recent equality push. If you aren’t actively working for a fairer society you are to blame for an unfair society. It’s not enough to tick a box every few years.
Aw bless.
Anyway, not a cull, just a polite request to stop voting for stupid stuff if the voters concerned don't really understand what is going on and what is at stake. Stick to Britain's Got Talent or something else. Fantasy Football maybe...
I don't butt into conversations I don't understand, I find it much more valuable to take a step back and listen. Maybe ask a question or two, then form an opinion if I feel well informed enough to do so.
We need the spark to get a bit of that French anger going.
How the hell is Boris going to force a rise in French petrol prices?
AaRrrrgh, I meant the French blockade style anger👍 many french in my family😁👊
You sound more and more like a reincarnation of Jambalaya.
looking good, food stuck now. Rationing? Fighting? Etc
