Happy to be proved wrong but iirc the “oven ready deal” was the withdrawal agreement which has now been in operation for a while. Which is not to say that it isn’t a total shitshow.
which also included the NI protocol that they want to ditch.
Looking at some of the Brexit supporters’ comments around social media it feels as though if they got their wish and all the Remain supporters did actually leave, there would be a sort of reverse of Douglas Adams’ ‘B’ Ark scenario. Instead of losing all the telephone sanitisers account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards and public relations executives, instead Britain’s would shed most of its health workers, engineers, software designers, and people who actually know how to make a complex society run smoothly(ish) would be gone, and you’d be left with hedge fund managers, landed gentry, newspaper columnists and management consultants at one end of society, trying to deal with brickies, plasterers, plumbers and pensioners to keep the country functioning.
Happy to be proved wrong but iirc the “oven ready deal” was the withdrawal agreement which has now been in operation for a while.
We know that. The conflation of the Withdrawal Arrangement with a Trade deal was deliberate though. GET BREXIT DONE. The WA will be ripped up next year if we don’t get a Trade Deal… the government have made that clear (only after being elected).
Dead Cats all round...
Britain’s would shed most of its health workers, engineers, software designers, and people who actually know how to make a complex society run smoothly(ish) would be gone
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
The WA wasnt the oven ready deal . The oven deal was a trade deal .
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
That’s the b-ark.
Is a Turkey that voted for Christmas ready for the oven?
I feel like this Christmas is one where they smoke alarm goes off - a lot.
That’s the b-ark.
I'll go on the b-ark then please
from the bbc comments 🙂
The government have now started construction of their new theme park in Kent to promote their new gaming idea. The idea of the game is you hide your lorry among 7000 other lorries for 3 days and then see if you can find it again.
The game is called:
TRUCK AND TRACE.
PS. Don't forget to bring your Kent passport or you won't be allowed to play.
You forgot all the artists, musicians, dancers, architects, graphic designers, sound engineers etc who make that society have nice things in it.
Good point, and educators, researchers, academics, lawyers and do-gooders who give a society the ability to improve itself, the list goes on...
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
Clearly the opposite of a do-gooder isn’t something a civilised person would want to be so how has it become such a charged word?
It's odd, isn't it. I've always been proud to be a do-gooder. It's a bit like how suddenly good manners became "political correctness" and could and should be laughed at, not being a dickhead makes you a "social justice warrior", and being anti-fascist became evil.
I have to admit, I'm comfortable I've taken the right positions on most things like this in my life, but, my god, the bad guys are better than us at the messaging.
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
I can give you an exact date... June 24th 2016. The day the prevailing ‘winning’ feel in this country officially became a nasty, petty, small-minded, backward-gazing, racist, insular, hostile, xenophobic load of old sepia-tinted ‘2 world wars and a world cup’ neo-colonial old bollocks!
I’ve endured this shit for 4 years now and it’s presently coming to the conclusion we all said it would.
I fully expect it to get far, far worse. **** this shitty little country!
When DID ‘do-gooders’ become an insult and how?
It was an established insult back in 1980s. I heard it at times from both friends and strangers (for the specific joint crimes of picking up litter and being employed by a national nature conservation charity)
*edit. Here:
My Most Brexit/Tory Friend has such a disdain for ‘do-gooders’ because he ‘knows their motives are selfish/perverted’
On the odd occasion I have got into debate with trumpers, when they call me a liberal I explain that in europe that is a compliment. It drives them crackers
I for one look forward to the breakup of the union but only because I am being selfish and hope my recent ancestry qualifies for Scottish citizenry.
If you want to be Scottish, move here and commit - don't just try and take advantage once you've decided rUK isn't for you.
I'm waiting for my multi national employer to pull out of the UK as tariffs make us uncompetitive against our European competitors then I'm moving to Scotland......or France.
My odd Lexiteer mate is saying It was always going to be this way as the EU needed no deal so that the resulting economic misery is seen by the rest of the EU as a warning to other countries about leaving.
So this is all the EU’s fault. They were always going to ‘punish us’ with no deal.
I mean...what can you say to these people?
It's a bit like how virtue signalling has become the ultimate online insult. I see it sometimes but often it's just applied when people don't like that others have better morals than they do.
And 'arsehole signalling' is seemingly just fine, or to be lauded in fact.
I mean what can you say to these people?
Nothing. Prevailing narrative ‘wins’. Takes all. In a race to the bottom it just has to play out until that ‘bottom‘ is reached. I’m no longer an optimist.
My odd Lexiteer mate is saying It was always going to be this way as the EU needed no deal so that the resulting economic misery is seen by the rest of the EU as a warning to other countries about leaving.
So this is all the EU’s fault. They were always going to ‘punish us’ with no deal.
I mean…what can you say to these people?
Congratulate them on their foresight and remind them that based on this it means they actually voted to suffer (since apparently they knew the outcome).
And then remind them that based on this they also voted so the majority of UK citizens would be worse off and have less rights (especially those with a crap life, as it'll become shit).
Then walk away.
It's a fascinating negotiation tbh. Shame there's no crystal ball to see the options play out over a decade or more.
A no deal at this stage is probably best for the long term but can we commit to the short term pain.
Who's calling the outcome?
No deal will be hugely damaging long term for two main reasons
1 London will lose its financial services leading to a huge balance of payments problem
2 tariffs will increase food poverty and push inflation up
Lots of other bad effects as well
Nothing. Prevailing narrative ‘wins’. Takes all. In a race to the bottom it just has to play out until that ‘bottom‘ is reached. I’m no longer an optimist.
That is probably why I would seriously consider independence for Scotland in another vote, I feel that Westminster is absolutely toxic and the present administration are the most incompetent bunch of yes men I have ever seen and run by an absolute charlatan, and if we are to endure a decade of pain I would rather a bit more pain for at least a bit of light at the end of the tunnel hence the independence vote, also it has to be said that the lying machine within Westminster needn't bother pointing out do not vote to leave for this that and the other because quite frankly I only watch the clown to see how big his lies are (I am at a loss as to how anyone believes one word that comes out his mouth)
Why is no deal best long term?
And as for short term pain - who's going to bear the brunt of that? Pain can be dealt with if governments step up to soften the blow. But this lot won't - they are Tories, and the main principle of Tories is that they don't do that.
It’s a fascinating negotiation tbh
Except it isn’t, is it? It’s achingly predictable. It’s an FA Cup tie with a third division side playing the premiership leaders.Until yesterday
A no deal at this stage is probably best for the long term
No deal has always been the worst possible scenario, which is why even the most hardline Brexiteer went to great lengths to promise that it could never happen.
Of course this flips on its head if you’re a hedge fund speculator who’s bet billions against the pound. In which case you’ll clean up and make an absolute killing as our currency goes in to freefall.
Money you can then spend on acquiring British companies who’s share prices have collapsed, which you can then asset strip.
Have a guess who provided all the money for both the Leave campaign, Borises leadership campaign and the Tory’s election campaign?
Go on... take a wild guess?
A no deal at this stage is probably best for the long term but can we commit to the short term pain.
Short term pain for no long term gain. Not exactly the “win-win” Johnson promised when he dismissed the short, medium and long term damaged the Cameron government warned we would have to accept if we swapped EU membership for a new relationship without a replacement trade deal. The government spelt it out… Johnson called it “Project Fear” and said that there was no chance whatsoever of us leaving without a trade deal. Now he is overseeing the very damaging exit situation that he promised the voters would not happen. Bait and switch.
Molgrips, no deal now doesn't really mean no deal forever but let's agree that no deal will be a shitty short term mess💩, captain starmer can finally emerge from the Brexit shadows and use that chaos to win the next election for a strong labour government that will be supporting those most in need.
We will also be able to rejoin the EU whenever we are ready, fully committing to the euro and perhaps creating a better relationship through our experience.
The UK needs some humble pie, let's gobble it up while we have a chance for real change, nom nom nom.
We really don't want Basil Fawlty to secure any sort of deal right now.
Sometimes you have to burn the house down 🔥
Super fascinating.
I for one love working for a successful manufacturing company that is dependent on exporting worldwide and let me assure you I love trying to sort out exciting things like REACH, supply chains and suchlike all the while having absolutely no idea as to what the plan is.
I am of course reassured that conservative government will absolutely be committed to getting a great deal (in fact the 'easiest deal in history').
The tories have a great track record in this area. Oh wait - my mistake.
I just hope all those keen on some 'short term pain' actually experience the short term pain. Its all very well being keen on job losses it it isn't your job...
Sometimes you have to burn the house down 🔥
Oh great! Disaster socialism! 🙄
I’d rather we opted for a course of action that didn’t involve a monumentally damaging financial shitstorm
The Ayn Rand idea of ‘creative destruction’ is a myth. In reality it’s just destruction
We will also be able to rejoin the EU whenever we are ready
We’re not joining the EU in any of our lifetimes (not as the UK anyway), we have burnt through all the goodwill over the last 4+ years. Bridges well and truly burnt (at the Westminster level anyway).
Perfect isn't available peepole, do you really want Basil Fawlty securing a deal? Is your secure little bubble worth that long term pain for future generations.. we need a no deal next year to kick start a new UK movement.
We can rejoin the EU when we are ready👍
Nothing you are saying is grounded in reality. No deal will destroy many UK sited businesses, and force others to relocate. Those jobs won’t be coming back, and real people will be hit hard. We are not rejoining the EU, and the damage of No Deal will be felt by real people for no long term gain to them. We will not be rejoining the EU in their lifetimes.
We’re not joining the EU
Well, not England. Some of the other bits “might” have a shot.
The UK can rejoin the EU when it's ready, it isn't a lottery, if you meet the criteria you join the 'all welcome' club.
You don't want Boris getting a deal this will be bad news for the UK in the long term.
UK would be vetoed from rejoining
We will not be rejoining the EU in their lifetimes.
We will. From a personal point of view I will not lie down and die in front of these lying b*stards.
Oh great! Disaster socialism!I’d rather we opted for a course of action that didn’t involve a monumentally damaging financial shitstorm
I understand this, but in reality the collapse of everything in this country started a long time ago, its just people either try ignore the worsening situation around them by trying to live 'as normal' lives as they can, and hope they can hold onto what little they have left, or you have enough money and access to privilege as whatever happens will not affect you.
In a race to the bottom it just has to play out until that ‘bottom‘ is reached.
The bottom is when you choose to take action to stop the rot. Don't expect some naturally occurring phenomena to throw up a sign in bright lights and state 'THIS IS THE BOTTOM, LIBERALS AND SUCH TAKE ACTION NOW', because that isn't going to happen.
Sometimes you have to burn the house down
The house is already on fire, as above its up to us to stop ****ing around and put it out.
The UK can rejoin the EU when it’s ready, it isn’t a lottery, if you meet the criteria you join the ‘all welcome’ club
is bollocks.
Fact check for you - suggest you read this from The Institute for Government...
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-49-rejoining-eu
All the UK has is the right to apply to re-join the EU; any such application can be vetoed by any EU member state - so Poland or Hungary, for example, could exercise that veto and the application would be rejected.
The EU can impose any pre-conditions it sees fit before considering an application to
re-join
In addition, the various concessions which the UK has negotiated with the EU would not be re-instated; there would be no preferential treatment so the contribution rebate, for example, would be a thing of the past.
No apologies for pissing on your chips; let me remind you of the 4 Fs - First Find the F______ Facts.
We don't want that preferential rebate deal FFS, that's no good for the EU. We will accept the EU criteria because the UK won't be crying about the nasty EU anymore, demanding rebates and perks, we will commit to the euro and build a new stronger relationship with our neighbours. Nobody will veto our rejoining and the EU will welcome the grown up version of the UK with open arms (as has been stated many times)
Take your pissy chips and shove em up your arse👍😂
That's an ignorant response which probably should be flagged to the mods because of the last sentence.
In addition to your ignorant attitude you clearly don't want to educate yourself.
So you want to swear at me, piss on my chips and slip in some ad homs but then cry like a child when I bend you over and slap your bum cheeks in a jovial manner. Jog on captain ironic🙋
Sometimes you have to burn the house down 🔥
You really don't.
Can I suggest you step away from the keyboard for a while?
Yawn.
Matt, the house is getting destroyed either way, Boris getting a deal now is very bad news for the UK.
