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But it isn’t over. Having left the EU, the chance to make political gains off the back of blaming immigrants will return again, when the next election is closer. Don’t assume this is just a Conservative or Leave tendency.
"they" are always to blame for the problems. Just a case of finding a group to other and rely on people buying the lies.
The current situation is unlikely to change for generations, the abilty of the right/Brexiteers to control the thoughts of poor people is absolute.
I am 58 this will not turn around in my lifetime. No one will take to the streets or man the barricades, Thatcher is a hardly remembered Grimms fairytale from another century along with the prosperity of the working classes of the early 1970s.
The political class of this country and i happily include Blair have bred out "the fight" and removed the structures that supported working people.
It is forgotten the venom that the upper middle class harboured for the working class during the 60s and 70s as Unions stood up and told them to * off.
Finally they absolutely have control..
I watched my old mans birthplace Blyth in Northumberland vote for these *s i watched their Labour MP tell them to do so, i watched their new Tory MP vote against feeding piss poor hungry kids. My great granfather worked at Blyth Colliery i hope to **** he is not watching what his community just did.
I sit and wait for Karma but i think i won't last long enough. I am in the minority with enough memory to put it into perspective but still a minority.
" have sympathy with that view.
I was thinking he’d have been far better, domestically and internationally, with the C-19 problems than the present second-raters"
Mate, Laurel & Hardy would have made a better job of it.
Can we get rid of the cookie consent pop-ups from Friday?
That must be worth a few percent off GDP.
The current situation is unlikely to change for generations, the abilty of the right/Brexiteers to control the thoughts of poor people is absolute
Sadly this is where we are
Can we get rid of the cookie consent pop-ups from Friday?
No, it’s UK law. If the UK does in future change the law to diverge … well, let’s just say there is more value in being able to move data over borders than the man in the street thinks… it’s going to be tricky enough to keep that without rowing back on anything GDPR related. File it under “maybe one day”.
Darn, there goes the single possible benefit that I could think of.
Yep an interesting point that er all these ‘eu’ laws don’t suddenly disappear 1 Jan 21.
Time to get down to details…
1) haulage agreement heavily favours nonUK companies and drivers
https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1343576635598110727?s=21
2) fishing agreement heavily favours nonUK fishing fleets
https://twitter.com/europe1/status/1343456546718674945?s=21
3) rules-of-origin agreement heavily favours nonUK manufacturers
And that's a hat trick!
Can we get rid of the cookie consent pop-ups from Friday?
That's advertising companies not following the law (or at least being very lax in their interpretation of it) - pester enough people enough of the time and they'll hanker after the adverts they really want to pester you with.
I agree 100% with oldmanmtb. I'm a wee bit older (65) and I remember all that and more. I despair for this country, we appear to learn nothing. The only things that matter are our 'glorious' past and as long as we keep living in that past we will never progress as a nation. We need to abolish the monarchy, aristocracy and disestablish the church at the very least. Oh, and stop making war films ..... Rant over.
The only things that matter are our ‘glorious’ past and as long as we keep living in that past we will never progress as a nation.
Vote Leave was a repudiation of 'progress'.
I sit and wait for Karma but i think i won’t last long enough. I am in the minority with enough memory to put it into perspective but still a minority.
I'm 55, come originally from a small northern port who's main export was coal...
Spent my working life based in the South East and travelled the globe with numerous UK companies. It absolutely boils my pi55 when I hear folk saying how we can now trade with other countries, my response is always the same - "name these countries!".
Because I can guarantee I've probably worked in half of them.
Lazy cliched blaming of modern Germany
I'm a little surprised by this characterisation. I thought it was pretty well known that even the Germans admit to deliberately pursuing a policy of a 'low' wage, export driven economy. Low being a relative term. Their stance on a range of EU issues makes far more sense when you accept this view. Everything from allowing refugees residence to the Greek issue are easily explained.
I don't know if this has been mentioned before on here, but does anyone know of a benefit of the new rules/legislation? By which I mean a definitive plus that wasn't available to the UK whilst we were in the EU.
Everything from allowing refugees residence to the Greek issue are easily explained.
Explain away… or, you know, just perhaps, the behaviour of successive Greek governments, and Greek business owners, might more accuracy explain “the Greek issue”. And the refugees issue might be because many Germans, some in positions of power and influence, wanted to do what so obviously needed doing for humanitarian reasons (while we retreated into our normal anti-foreigner approach to the refugee crisis).
I have skimmed the trade deal and you have to wonder just what the **** they have been doing for the last year....
It's full of generalisation and endless "new working parties" no adequacy on data, qualifications, haulage or services. Fishing has no changee really.
Not sure what its achieved? Other than putting the UK in an even weaker position when it comes to negotiating the adequacy stuff.
Speaks volumes that the 27 signed it off one day after it was published.
I think Boris has been well and truly had.
By which I mean a definitive plus that wasn’t available to the UK whilst we were in the EU.
Blue passport
I think the only benefit is the ability to sign trade deals with the rest of the world.... but that opportunity is limited USA, China, Australia, NZ,?
The aim is to sell services, the problem you have is maintaining regulatory alignment with the EU V alignment with other markets and not letting cross contamination of products and services. This will be very difficult and will require multiple systems within businesses.
All the while keeping a level playing field.
Juggling cats.
The only things that matter are our ‘glorious’ past and as long as we keep living in that past we will never progress as a nation.
That will be the glorious past built on 300 years of piracy, invading other countries, killing, enslaving or exploiting the inhabitants and stealing their natural resources.
We're going to need some bigger boats....
Not sure what its achieved? Other than putting the UK in an even weaker position when it comes to negotiating the adequacy stuff.
Well Boris can say Brexits done 🙂
I think Boris has been well and truly had.
I think Covid and Trump losing forced their hand somewhat, but I also think that they think it buys time to diverge and eventually leave the EU's sphere of influence totally.
However, this deal is akin to the planet earth(EU) and the moon(UK) being in its orbit.
You also have to look at the five year 'review' within the agreement. It provides the basis for re-joining the single market, so 2026 at the earliest.
First we have to get rid of this shower of sh*t in 2024, a tough ask with all the obstacles in the way, and some hope that those who voted for this will suffer the most from it, but those 'great unwashed' so to speak never really do learn lessons do they, they just need to be influenced to think a particular way, a lesson to be learn't from the current set of influencers of these people.
Either way, I think the second review in 2031 at the earliest will be the way back in.
And then out of the blue my Dad who's been utterly absent (maybe spoken once a year) for my whole life rings me up to tell me how much we'll thank his lot in the future and that Boris is a true visionary. FFS he used to be the director of a bank and read the Times, now he reads the Mail. I just wanted to tell him to eff off. It's been the hardest moment of Brexit for me.
never really thought about the other uk territories
Don’t forget the crown dependencies… the people of Jersey had no say in Brexit, and now feel under attack from both the UK government and France, as their special status that kept things stable for them was a side product of the UK being in the EU with France.
Read yesterday (BBC) that Rosslare port has had increased interest in the last few hours as a possible way to avoid the UK land bridge. Even though it's an 18 hour journey to Cherbourg it might still be quicker than parking in Kent.
i foresee our Empire getting even smaller sometime soon.
Gibraltar really is on the hook. It gets a lot of it’s services (water, broadband, etc) over land from Spain and a lot of the people that work there live in Spain. The whole place seems to exist for banking and if that services gets tariffed out, the place just becomes a rock again. Or maybe a place for cruise ships to dock.
Customs duties on good >390£ bought online in Europe (or on holidays...):
Might explain the euro bike sellers reluctance to try shipping anything start of January...
I think the £390 applies only to where you carry it into the country - not sure what the limit is on goods imported from a vendor. Thats just bringing it inline with the rest of the world.
It specifically says it applies to online shopping in that article.
I'm pretty sure we were promised this wouldn't happen and that everything would get cheaper, along with so many other lies.
andy8442
I don’t know if this has been mentioned before on here, but does anyone know of a benefit of the new rules/legislation? By which I mean a definitive plus that wasn’t available to the UK whilst we were in the EU.
It may have been...
When you say 'the UK' do you mean the general populace or disaster capitalists?
I thought it was pretty well known that even the Germans admit to deliberately pursuing a policy of a ‘low’ wage, export driven economy.
Burn the heretic! Germany is the model of socially responsible benevelont capitalism. Funny how when we do austerity it's very bad because it's perpetrated by evil tory brexiteers, yet when the Germans do it it's the actions of a socially responsible goverment making tough choices in the long term interest of theiir citizens. HItler had it all wrong. Instead of invading Poland all he had to do was put some workers in boardrooms and sell cars to the greeks.
Apparently we now have a trade deal with Turkey which we couldn't get before Brexit...
Can't find it at the Moro, was on the BBC I think.
Does the EU not have a trade deal with Turkey?
I'm not going to mention Turkey joining the EU and supposedly flooding Britain with forriners....
I'll be "letting go" of Brexit come the 1st January. I have to,tbh.
I know the ramifications and negotiations will go on for years, it's not even close to "being done".
However, it's got me down to the point where it's become a large negative in my life when I really need to start tackling things I *can* change.
I'll never, ever get on board with Brexit though. I'll absolutely never get tired of pointing out I never voted for it when those that did start moaning.
I see the FBPE crowd are gearing up for the next phase of their campaign..
https://twitter.com/russincheshire/status/1343627385351139330?s=21
Explain away… or, you know, just perhaps, the behaviour of successive Greek governments, and Greek business owners, might more accuracy explain “the Greek issue”.
Or, you know, just perhaps, it's possible for two things to be true at the same time. The state of Greece's finances were hardly a secret, and the EU response smacked of "pour encourager les autres".
read the detail of that article and you will understand the s***storm. 1st foreign retailers have to register with HMRC to sell items unto c£130, they collect vat and pay it yo HMRC, above that point your looking at duty and vat being collected in the UK by the sounds of it, Is the post office/courier businesses really going to cope with the items coming through that were duty exempt and now aren't.
Note those figures apply to all imports, and are new, they aren't just a Brexit/EU thing, they are global.
Does the EU not have a trade deal with Turkey?
a customs union, note not "The Customs Union".
What? You mean Turkey hasn’t joined yet?
Farage telling porkies. Amazing, eh?
He's dropped fishing rights as a red line too (as in he's cool with the trade deal).... Almost as if he never cared about them anyway.😉
I’ll be “letting go” of Brexit come the 1st January. I have to,tbh.
I know the ramifications and negotiations will go on for years, it’s not even close to “being done”.
However, it’s got me down to the point where it’s become a large negative in my life when I really need to start tackling things I *can* change.
I’ll never, ever get on board with Brexit though. I’ll absolutely never get tired of pointing out I never voted for it when those that did start moaning.
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at now.
Had a further read of the trade deal document tonight as i needed to check the data protection bits (or lack of)
There is not as much in there as i thought... in fact there is little substance outside of tariff free/quota free for goods.
Its almost as if it has been designed to have no objections? I doubt the ERG will find anything other than fishing and seed potatoes going under the bus, Not enough votes in either sector to raise concerns..
Poopscoop
Full MemberI’ll be “letting go” of Brexit come the 1st January. I have to,tbh.
Sad to say Brexit has no intentions of letting go of us.
I think Boris has been well and truly had.
I think that always going to be the case, he has never been interested in the details in anything he has done..
Blue passport
I'm just waiting for the EU to change their passports to blue... Oh how hard would we laugh
Not saying this is any more accurate than other views I've read but does seem quite succinct regarding the overall position.
https://www.cer.eu/insights/ten-reflections-sovereignty-first-brexit
Northwind
Sad to say Brexit has no intentions of letting go of us.
Absolutely agree but I can't focus on it anymore. It's genuinely putting my mind into a bad place. I can't change it but I must get on with the rest of my life. If I don't, that's the final capitulation.
We’re at the point where many Brits feel that having a free trade deal that focuses on tariffs means that little will change… because those that fully accept that we have left the EU, but continue to try and explain what that means for us all, are being shouted down as sore losers, or scaremongers. Bit by bit over the next few years, companies, brands and government departments have the sorry task of explaining all that we have lost, and the extra costs and hassles that we all face… while no doubt Johnson and his successor tell us why those loses, costs and hassles are worth it, so that… well… something about using deregulation to help the North… somehow… time to check out “Britannia Unchained” again…
wait till the masses realise they can only bring one block of fags and a few bottles of vodka back from their holiday in the sun without being stung with a large tax bill...
fishing and seed potatoes going under the bus
Fishing has still improved so it is just less than hoped for. Seeds potatoes is a hit, but hardly a major one.
so a few more fish in a few years - that we do not have the boats and men to catch - so will still be caught by EU fishermen using UK licenses as they are right now
Mefty - what’s the relative size of seed potatoes and sausages (another non-export item) against fishing gains? I have little idea.
Moving on.
Overall it looks like the EU got to preserve their trading position (goods heavy) but we didn’t get ours (services heavy) - but maybe we were never going to. We lost EHIC (which may be replaced) and Erasmus (which possibly might be replaced). The car industry has been given almost exactly the right amount of time to chose where to make the next models (you never know, it might, maybe be Sunderland or Derby - any gamblers?).
HGV fleets and drivers seem to have landed more favourably if they are EU based. The security industry and data sharers generally seem unimpressed to disgruntled.
Any positives where the UK got the better end of the deal? Anyone? Sovereignty isn’t really worth very much relative to jobs and livelihoods and a shared European culture.
Even fishing doesn’t look like we really got anything - fishing industry spokesmen are already saying what we got in quotas is worth less than we’ll lose due to trade being more difficult.
And that was with BoJo threatening to walk time and time again. (“Wolf”, cried the messy haired public school boy.)
I think Barnier did his job rather competently. Frost, less so.
Better than no deal? Probably.
Better than the current deal? No, it’s not.
Anyone noticed The Express is more Daily Mail than the Daily Mail these days? Love the illusonary £900bn.... guessing that includes the "new" deal with the EU....though the old "deal" was far better...
Most of the rest are just rolled over EU deals. My God, the average reader must be dumb as sh*t. Sorry but how can they fall for this crap?
No idea what new opportunities there are to grabbed, why the f*** didn't we grab them before I wonder?
Of the 900, 660 is the Brexit deal, and much of the rest is rollovers of the deals we had with other countries as EU members.
I don’t think there’s much new in there. I’m sure there’s something (but it’s Leadsome who’s given them the numbers so do check them).
Gingerly posting for 1st time in STW brexit thread...
Luckily, by virtue of having N Irish parents , I am an Irish citizen automatically, so at some point I'll get the paperwork together to apply for my Irish passport before my UK one runs out in 2 years time. Then at least I'll retain my right to live /work in 27 other countries (whether i exercise this right or not is beside the point).
I'm Scottish by birth so I may be able to add to my passport collection in the next few years...
What were the <old> trade deals worth?
Poopscoop
Full MemberAbsolutely agree but I can’t focus on it anymore. It’s genuinely putting my mind into a bad place. I can’t change it but I must get on with the rest of my life. If I don’t, that’s the final capitulation.
I saw this, and thought of you:
Absolutely agree but I can’t focus on it anymore. It’s genuinely putting my mind into a bad place. I can’t change it but I must get on with the rest of my life. If I don’t, that’s the final capitulation.
Put aside the stuff about free movement and the right to work in Europe and it boils down to a debate about trade tariffs. So unless you have/had a burning ambition to work in EU countries (a real disadvantage for many before I'm flamed) or want to emigrate there, then carry on. It will affect the economy, some will lose out, some will gain, but it's not worth lying awake at night worrying about it.
If you want a reality check watch the Once Upon A Time In Iraq documentary series on iplayer. The UK govt very recently played a major part in destroying the lives of millions only a few years ago. Brexit doesn't even compare to the horror that has been imposed on an entire nation in our name.
It’s not only the loss of the opportunity to live and work (and love) in the EU27 in future, it’s the royal ****ing mess it makes of life for those that did it years before the tosspot farage came along.
I can no longer live in the same country as my father (my only relative).
That’s it. That’s the message.
I can no longer live in the same country as my father
**** fish and sovereignty and whatever else you leave ****s used as an excuse to be xenophobic.
There’s no common ground or coming together or making the best of it or seizing opportunities.
I can no longer live in the same country as my father.
Put aside the stuff about free movement and the right to work in Europe and it boils down to a debate about trade tariffs. So unless you have/had a burning ambition to work in EU countries (a real disadvantage for many before I’m flamed
Hmm only the removal of our ‘rights’ 🙂
Which were very quickly separated from us.
Wonder which ones go next.
My God, the average reader must be dumb as sh*t. Sorry but how can they fall for this crap?
Answered the question before asking it!
In truth there is a spectrum. The majority of people who read the Express are really that stupid. Simple.
Some others want to be conned as they think Brexit is merely a stepping stone to an ethnically pure Britain. They may not turn out to be so deluded.
The end of free movement has a real effect on me. My sister lives in Amsterdam. To preserve her rights she has had to take out dutch citizenship which while mainly symbolic could cause some difficulties with care for aging parents. I also thought of moving to the Netherlands but that now is much harder
I was intending to spend 6 months touring Europe by bicycle next year or two. That now will need a visa and I have no idea how it will work but a 3 month limit is possible / probable.
At work I know of a few EU staff that have gone back home. Thats not good and the picture on that nationally is awful. Other EU staff have had to go thru expensive and awkward bureaucratic processes which quite honestly is embarrassing.
Now first world problems and all that but already Brexit is having a negative effect on me right now
Some others want to be conned as they think Brexit is merely a stepping stone to an ethnically pure Britain. They may not turn out to be so deluded.
They probably will. If as looks likely we lose / reduce the amount of EU workers especially in the NHS then the replacements are going to come mainly from the Indian sub continent and the Philippines
'We' are willingly making ourselves a less attractive proposition for the rest of the world because 'we' don't like foreigners.
I suppose there is some logic in that somewhere....
it boils down to a debate about trade tariffs
Not even close.
Once Upon A Time In Iraq
Are you baiting Binners with your “what about Iraq?”
Or just going for some sick whatboutery?
Other EU staff have had to go thru expensive and awkward bureaucratic processes which quite honestly is embarrassing.
What is this expensive process? So far gov.co.uk only mentions the pre-settled/settled status
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families
It took my an afternoon to sort it out, and when I had some questions the person at the phone was extremely helpful...
Which bit of the NHS do you work for Baboonz?
It took my(sic) an afternoon to sort it out,
Thats bad enough. It depends on the individuals circumstances but even the minimum is still a pain in the arse and I know people for whom it has been a lot more hassle than you describe
In years to come there will be loads of folk who are found for one reason or another not to have the right paperwork and thats another windrush in the making
Brexit is about erecting barriers. Why would you want to do that? Because you want to keep 'them' out. So you're reinforcing the idea that 'they' (i.e. people from other countries) are in some way bad. This is such a bad sentiment I don't even know where to begin. And don't say 'there's nothing wrong with foreigners in their own country' blabla because that's just saying the same thing in different words.
National boundaries are stupid. Why the hell would I (in Wales) have more in common with some Brexit-voting insular English Express-reading idiot than an outward looking resident of say Brittany? Just because 800 years ago that was the outcome of some wars. What a stupid way to run things.
"applauds"
another windrush in the making
You say it like it would be a bad thing - which it would, if you are a sane, empathetic person with more than a handful of brain cells.
For your average Mail/Express reader Windrush was the start of something, the throwing off of the shackles of political correctness, a cowardly nation finding 'the right stuff' again etc etc.
Mean spirited insularity. Plain and simple.
Why the hell would I (in Wales) have more in common with some Brexit-voting insular English Express-reading idiot than an outward looking resident of say Brittany?
👏👏
🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
What is this expensive process? So far gov.co.uk only mentions the pre-settled/settled status
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families
It took my an afternoon to sort it out, and when I had some questions the person at the phone was extremely helpful…
It is a relatively simple process, but already my Finnish wife has been asked to provide evidence of settled status (which you cannot, as there is no documentation provided) and it is also wholly reliant on this shower of a government not reneging on the agreement, and settled status only applies to EU nationals already here doesn’t it?
Still shouldn’t grumble because Iraq or something.
while no doubt Johnson and his successor tell us why those loses, costs and hassles are worth it, so that… well… something about using deregulation to help the North… somehow… time to check out “Britannia Unchained” again…
I agree, Britannia is now truly unchained. What Hannan, Raab, Patel and the rest of them failed to take into account was, we were riding a bike.
National boundaries are stupid. Why the hell would I (in Wales) have more in common with some Brexit-voting insular English Express-reading idiot than an outward looking resident of say Brittany?
Or the majority of Welsh people who voted Leave.