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wondering if you'll need to fill out a customs declaration for returns to CRC
Is this not just so the MPs have to time to scrutinise the deal and will have to vote it through so BoJo gets to be the hero?
I'd assume so, but in the UK, the PM isn't a leader, he'll say anything he fancies depending on which way the wind is blowing on a particular day.
All the time scales, and dealdines, are UK deadlines, which mysteriously seem to be fluid. Sometimes, when it suites.
Rushing a load of utter insanity through parliment is this governments modus operandi.
And they have a massive majority of cowardly carrear MPs to see it through.
They've already won. We just need to figure out how to limit the damage and reform.
a massive majority of cowardly carrear MPs to see it through.
Both labour and conservative, may I add.
Both labour and conservative, may I add.
and you know in 4 years or whenever, nothing is going to change, the same eejits will be re-elected!!!!
Is this really how a first world country behaves?
I can't believe that any of the people running this show would attempt to run their own businesses in a similar manner.
If any of this shower of imbeciles even attempted to run a business they’d have gone bust before lunchtime.
They couldn’t run a bath
All wealth must be inherited and unearned, accumulated off the backs of others.
Taxpayers money is there to be funnelled into the pockets of them and their mates. Brexit exists to make that process a lot easier
I can’t believe that any of the people running this show would attempt to run their own businesses in a similar manner.
Yep, but this is running a country, so it isn't their money. They don't give a shit.
I missed a ‘dont’t’ from my previous post. Agree with Mattyfez and others. Assuming a deal gets done, saying if it’s not ratified it’s no deal basically forces Labour to vote it through
Given that Keir Starmer and Boris Johnston are two cheeks of the same arse, why wouldn't they?
the unknown here is how many of the ERG headbangers are so hell-bent on no deal that they won’t vote for any deal
What's still missing is a deal to vote on.
binners
Full Member
With every day that passes, something else gets added to the ever-lengthening list of utterly shambolic none-readiness for what’s about to happen.These are really fundamental things too, that this joke of a government doesn’t even seem to have even considered
I hardly need to post on this thread as Binners says pretty much exactly what I think!😁
when the idiot came out and dover calais was important, you knew it was never going to go well
Dammit binners has hit the nail on the head. The blond eejit will get to be the hero who defeated Europe and bent labour to his will.
Rubbish deal will be better than no deal and labour will have to vote aye to counter the erg.
We have crossed the Rubicon.
Dammit binners has hit the nail on the head. The blond eejit will get to be the hero who defeated Europe and bent labour to his will.
Rubbish deal will be better than no deal and labour will have to vote aye to counter the
This was always going to be the outcome
In fact here we go
I saw that earlier but only just read it. Going from 60% to 35% when the EU suggested 25% is quite a capitulation.
Sounds like as has been previously suggested, BoJo will go with what the EU will accept and spin it was a great victory.
I Was surprised to read that Starmer wasn’t pushing for an extension when he was asked.
all in the game, yo
"Omar Little"
ferrals
Free Member
I saw that earlier but only just read it. Going from 60% to 35% when the EU suggested 25% is quite a capitulation.
We taking about fishing here mate?.
Dammit binners has hit the nail on the head. The blond eejit will get to be the hero who defeated Europe and bent labour to his will.
Rubbish deal will be better than no deal and labour will have to vote aye to counter the erg.
We have crossed the Rubicon.
To a point, but as it will be debated Starmer can make it clear that this isn't the deal that was promised, that is needed or is wanted and the only reason to vote for it is because the only other option is worse (and is entirely due to tories). Point out that a better deal is and was possible but Boris threw it away through arrogant posturing and stupidity. And that we are going to have to go back and negotiate a proper trade deal anyway, so most of this will get revisited but on less favourable terms......
If he makes it quite clear that the only reason Labour support it is to make sure that Boris's own party can't sabotage the vote and that this is damage limitation putting Country before party then they may be OK.
wondering if you’ll need to fill out a customs declaration for returns to CRC
Depends, might just send it to Wiggle.
putting Country before party
The Tories have never once done this (and it's why we're here). The LibDems did and it destroyed them. Labour should allow a free vote with a nudge to abstain.
Given that Keir Starmer and Boris Johnston are two cheeks of the same arse,
You must be a rubbish judge of character!
I can’t believe that any of the people running this show would attempt to run their own businesses in a similar manner.
As someone who's worked with a fair few businesses over the years, I absolutely can. Why do you think British productivity is so low?
Starmer has consistently made sure that yhe Tories own the Brexit shit show, i agree with his approach no extensions get a (shit) deal - challenge the deal - leverage the ERG nutters - then "help" Boris get the crap deal over the line - keep telling Boris its a crap deal - let the Tories tear each other apart - point out the misery of the crap deal.
Oh and promise the ****ing earth to the electorate- free beer and chips whatever it takes....
Oh and molgrips is right UK productivity is shite, it demonstrates in hard numbers what you get with a minimum wage, zero hours, under employed economy (lots of folks working 17 hours a werk in Aldi, Lidl, McDonald's, B&Q, Hospitality, retail.. which is also why we have done extra shite during covid.
The irony of this insane situation is that Dave called a referendum in the first place to try and settle an internal fight within the Tory party, yet it’s done nothing of the sort.
Does anyone believe that this will be the end of it? It’ll be worse than ever. If Johnson gets a deal, no matter how shite, and relies on Labour votes to get it through, then the ERG, the right wing press, Farage and all the racist Little Englanders will erupt with cries of betrayal
So we’ll have inflicted enormous damage on our economy and destroyed our international standing for absolutely nothing, as the Tories self-indulgent civil war carries on regardless
So we’ll have inflicted enormous damage on our economy and destroyed our international standing for absolutely nothing, as the Tories self-indulgent civil war carries on regardless
And all future Tory leadership candidates will have to fly the xenophobic/racist flag pretty prominently as it is a tiny group of largely retired xenophobes/racists that select them. This chaos is hardwired in now. Cameron, supposed composed PR savvy smooth operator, was the one who fell into the trap. There really is no going back from that.
Yeah… Radio4… PM… a Brexit cheerleader saying we can eat cabbage and fennel instead of our current fruit and veg… and blaming supermarkets for buying all the foreign muck. Change your diet and embrace the change…
What’s tonight’s special dish?
It’s cabbage soup surprise.
Is the surprise a slightly aniseedy flavour, again, Baldrick?
Gibraltar… passport free access with the Schengen area looks to be nailed on… with restrictions on UK passport holders into Gib. More Project Fear panning out much as expected.
A news report earlier made me chuckle when some Tory they rolled out said that they can cope with the current border closure because of their Brexit preparations.
So, Brexit is such an amazing liberation for our country that they have had to employ a mechanism that can deal with thousands of HGVs stranded in this country because of border delays. Win!!!!
Foreign truckers stuck in the UK over Christmas.... is this some sort of payback for all the times French air traffic control went on strike the day school holidays started?
God, there must be a way of stooping this sickening, blatant crap:
It’s okay, we left the EU… the end of the gravy train… the end of unelected bureaucrats… the end of elites buying power…
It seems that Johnson is utterly contemptuous of the very concept of loyalty on a personal level, betrayal being his middle name, but always steadfastly honours a financial transaction.
That’s why we’re getting no deal. Money has changed hands for him to facilitate that. Very very large amounts of money. And that must be honoured, no matter what the cost to the country
We’re a ****ing banana republic!
When you think about it, if we wanted to stop Brexit we could all have chipped in and offered him a bigger bung
Missed a trick there
Foreign truckers stuck in the UK over Christmas…. is this some sort of payback for all the times French air traffic control went on strike the day school holidays started?
It's to avoid spread of the new strain of virus. It's far easier stop stop people getting on a boat than confine them when they get off (this is why British immigration control is in Calais). It's forced the Brits to test people before they get on the boat. The truck drivers will only be delayed for as long as it takes the Brits to organise testing so if someone had got organised quickly they could have got things moving again more quickly. Any hold up is only a testing delay.
Compare and contrast:
As the UK dissolves into the ill-prepared shambolic chaos that was always predicted - and we ain’t seen nothing yet - with these Brexiteer buffoons at the helm...
over in the real world, the one occupied by serious professional people, who actually know what they’re doing...
https://twitter.com/stenaline/status/1341471682972839938?s=21
They quietly get on with bypassing this sepia-tinted little nationalist backwater
They quietly get on with bypassing this sepia-tinted little nationalist backwater
You missed 'plague-riddled'.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/22/covid-serious-absurd-boris-johnson
I particularly liked:
It still leaves the problem of Johnson’s manner – his unshakable habit of crass levity. Even in the midst of national tragedy he adopts the sombre pose awkwardly, like a football mascot observing the minute’s silence on Remembrance Sunday.
Johnson is such a pillock.
They quietly get on with bypassing this sepia-tinted little nationalist backwater
And while this thread is (rightly) full of pessimism, this event does show that given time we will see entrepreneurial business step in and make a go of things. I know I am glass half full, but if I wasn't I would be pretty depressed at the moment.
My concern on all this is now how long and how deep the recession and chaos will be...
RE. Cherbourg. 18hrs ferry ride to end up 100 miles from where you need to be wont be viable in the long run though will it?
Well, neither Aldi nor Tesco had any packs of pain au chocolat in store this morning. Shit just got real.
(Yes, I know they really come out of a factory in Rotherham)
And while this thread is (rightly) full of pessimism, this event does show that given time we will see entrepreneurial business step in and make a go of things.
Yes, business will find a way around whatever deal or rules we end up with. But as in the Stena Line example that will most likely involve bypassing us completely. We're in serious danger of being cut off.
Don't you think that the important bit this is demonstrating is that the entrepreneurial business innovation is taking place OUTSIDE the UK. As you would expect when a country decides to pretend the last 30 years haven't happened and we can go our own way in an increasingly globalised economy. The rest of the world will just move on while this country gets on with the doomed experiment of the return to Empire 2.0, 'led' there by backward gazing idiots who have not the remotest understanding of how a modern economy even works.
The business brains that will be forging our brave thrusting entrepreneurial future...
Cherbourg. 18hrs ferry ride to end up 100 miles from where you need to be wont be viable in the long run though will it?
From an Irish business exporting or Schengen supplying into Ireland point of view that could be more viable than the pain in the arse of going through the UK customs and back into Schengen will become.
RE. Cherbourg. 18hrs ferry ride to end up 100 miles from where you need to be wont be viable in the long run though will it?
That depends entirely on what the alternative is. Right now nobody has a clue. And we're ten days off what promises to be utter chaos. We're halfway there already
If you were running a business dependent on continuous frictionless import/export over that particular trade route, what decision would you have taken on the two options?
An 18 hour ferry journey or potentially having a truck stuck at a port for an indefinite period while your produce rots in the back of it?
There's no sentimentality in business. People make decisions based on cold hard facts. Cold hard facts are in very short supply in the UK right now, because Brexit is a project fuelled entirely through sentimentality
Don’t you think that the important bit this is demonstrating is that the entrepreneurial business innovation is taking place OUTSIDE the UK.
Yes, but I don't think Ireland or the rest of Europe has the monopoly on entrepreneurial businesses and individuals.
The problem with the frankly loopy Brexiteer fantasy of 'creative destruction' is that the destruction bit is easy. As this government is so shambolically but effectively demonstrating
The subsequent 'Creative' stage, if it happens at all (and given the option of doing it far easier elsewhere, that's a big if) takes a lot of time, effort, money, intelligence, and acumen. All things that also appear to be pretty scarce in this country at the moment
The Irish government were offering real practical and financial help to companies to prepare for this as far back as summer 2017.
I would have thought the Irish would have had multiple sea routes to Mainland Europe to avoid UK congestion - but apparently not till now as they are chuffed with this news.
So now there are less lorries that leave Ireland - travel through the UK without really stopping and then get on ferry or tunnel to France and then on to where ever. And the same with the return journey.
So this makes UK roads (From Fishguard to Dover etc) a little less busier and less pollution/better air quality. That must be some sort of very small positive right?!
Read this in the guardian comments section
Somewhere between a shambles and a catastrophe is coming in January
Bit too big to fit on the side of a bus...That'd be a shatastrophe then.
I just want this winter to be done with now!
So this makes UK roads (From Fishguard to Dover etc) a little less busier and less pollution/better air quality. That must be some sort of very small positive right?!
In any common-sense world that would be the case. But we're not in a sane world, we're in Brexit Britain, where the lunatics haven’t just taken over the asylum, they’ve burnt it to the ground and are now dancing on the smouldering embers
This is the reality/insanity of the situation. Every truck travelling from Wales to ireland will need to take a 100-mile detour because they've put the customs checks in...
Warrington
Go figure
Lorries heading from Ireland to Wales must go to England for customs control
Anyone who knows how snarled up the M62/M6 junctions are anyway in Warrington can just imagine the chaos this will cause when you throw christ-knows-how-many lorries into the mix. All completely pointlessly. All those artics adding 100 miles to their journey, a lot of which will be spent sat stationary in gridlocked traffic
Utter madness!
But I suppose this is what you get when you put another third-rate journalist, Michael Gove, in charge of logistics
RE. Cherbourg. 18hrs ferry ride to end up 100 miles from where you need to be wont be viable in the long run though will it?
Depends on the alternative. And in the spirit of co-operation that exists when you are the member of a big club with some clout, I expect the EU will come up with some means of pain-sharing if this goes on too long (I.e. within its member states).
That's the point of cooperation. The EU's pain will be less, but even if it isn't, they've got greater economies of scale to weather any storm.
We're about to get a first hand lesson in what self-imposed isolation really means. That 'we' are stupid enough to actually have to inflict this on ourselves to find out, is historically a remarkable thing. For all the wrong reasons.
What happens after is what worries me. Do we learn the lesson, have our silly little botties smacked and start behaving like a grown up country? Or do 'we' double down and go full fascist?
@Binners - it really beggars belief, utter madness indeed!
So reading the article, The reason Warrington/Birmingham are the Customs check in point is that Hollyhead Port has not located a suitable location for a customs point. I'm guessing the folk at HollyHead didn't want a park with a 1000 plus lorries a day going to it!
I'm assuming at some point Hollyhead will be coerced into setting up a customs point near to the Port to stop all/reduce this unnecessary traffic.
travel through the UK without really stopping
Not the full picture there I'm afraid. Drivers often have multiple drop offs and pick ups in multiple countries. Well, except for one country, from the end of the month.
Yeh its a bit like airlines - they don't just fly from point A to B and back to point A again.
Your plane to spain from heathrow might then go to milan, amsterdam, then dublin and then back to heathrow.
What ever is most commercially viable to transit as much goods or people as possible, like a multi drop van driver, they do a 'round robin' route, they don't return to base after every delivery.
It's almost as if the people driving this whole project have never actually had a proper job in their lives and exist in such a rarified and cossetted bubble they haven't got the first clue of how businesses function in the real world?
But that couldn't be the case, surely?
Every truck travelling from Wales to ireland will need to take a 100-mile detour because they’ve put the customs checks in…
Warrington
I was thinking about this the other day. It looks like one benefit of Brexit is going to be new opportunities for smuggling.
Customs bloke. "Your're from the 7am Holyhead ferry right?"
Dodgy driver. "That's right pal"
Cb. "And you came straight here, without stopping to swap any pallets or anything over didn't you?"
Dd. "Yep, straight here. Can I have my paperwork please?"
And that’s before you factor in the fact that none of the IT systems will be working on ‘Independence Day’ on 1st January
I’m sure it’ll all be fine
Right, as of 5pm this afternoon I am officially on holiday for six whole days. So I am also taking a 6 day break from this thread and posting on any politics thread or anything about politics. I feel the need for six days of not experiencing that horrible moment when chuckling at the utter ineptitude of Brexit turns to anger because it is happening here. There is only so much schadenfreude I can manage when this crap is supposedly being done in my name.
I'm in quite a lucky position. I work for a business that has only very limited dealings with anywhere overseas, and none whatsoever with the EU. Consequently I am not involved in any nonsense 'preparations' for an event that is still not defined enough to actually prepare for. Nor is it in a sector that is being laid waste by the ineptitude of Johnson's handling of the pandemic. We are going to be affected by it like everyone will be (unnecessary recession etc) but there is nothing specific I have to get done for it now.
Basically I can afford to spend six days not taking any notice of this crap at all - to enjoy a Christmas period which might well be looked back on as the end of an era when the realities bite properly next year and beyond.
So that's basically 'it' for a few days. Crazy how pretending something isn't happening when it is has become something to look forward to for a few days, but that is the insane world we live in.
To those who didn't want this nonsense, but are having to make last minute 'preparations' with virtually zero guidance, you have my sympathy. If you want answers, though, I haven't got any. Try finding a Leaver to ask - they should know.
Other than that, Merry Christmas to all.
Roger and out (for now).
Interesting video on Sky news where the lorry drivers are sayings it’s not as reported. There’s no Army and no testing that’s a lie, and they are being held as a political Brexit related display of force by Macron.
None of the drivers I interviewed are English, one claims he’s been working in Maidstone and reckons the Covid outbreak is a lie too.
You can’t make this up can you?
Other than that, Merry Christmas to all.
Have a good one Danny. You never know, when you're back in the new year we might all be wondering what the fuss was about 😉
Have a good’un Danny! See you on the other side of the apocalypse 😃
binners
It’s almost as if the people driving this whole project have never actually had a proper job in their lives and exist in such a rarified and cossetted bubble they haven’t got the first clue of how businesses function in the real world?
But that couldn’t be the case, surely?
Careful now Binners, you’re dangerously close to suggesting that Brexit is for the elite, by the elite. We all know that it was the remainers that were the elite to be despised by the honest common man.
Brexies are honest common men like Boris (American born, public school boy, related to European royalty), Farage (stockbroker’s son and public schoolboy) and who can forget Moggy (where to begin?).
Of course compared to those who funded Brexit, that lot do look like the common man.
Brexit is for the elites - everyone else pays.
PS nothing wrong with being American born - it’s just not that common round the UK
Reuters - Brexit deal is imminent according to a senior EU diplomat, possibly today.
Reuters – Brexit deal is imminent according to a senior EU diplomat, possibly today.
Now done according to Sky
EDIT: Rowing back a bit now, still augurs well.
Now done according to Sky
Merry Christmas!
[ Now, who has Johnson told/promised what...? And will it fall apart under a weight of contradictions...? ]
So did Macron's lorry park swing the deal? I'm being facetious BTW
Merry Xmas Danny 👍
Joyeux Noel and Frohe Weihnachten to you all.
As hoped, we are all now too beaten down and weary to care much about how bloody awful the deal is.
Now done according to Sky
EDIT: Rowing back a bit now, still augurs well.
I've just turned on Sky news, the quote is that talks are "in the end phase" and they are still talking.
Even if a deal is announced you still have to persuade the European parliament to vote for it and all the commissioners to forego their veto.
This is what happens when people who probably are not capable of managing a cooked english breakfast, are in charge of managing an entire country.
Our MP's probably use slip on shoes in private becasuse tying thier laces is usualy done by the staff for public appearnces.
Gah
Even if a deal is announced you still have to persuade the European parliament to vote for it and all the commissioners to forego their veto.
It only takes one member to Veto the deal.
27 soverign nations Vs 1.
TAKING BACK CONTROL!!!
The deal if it exists is being brokered on behalf of the 27 nations, by the EU as a whole, therefore none of them should have reason to refuse.
The EU parliament is party based and can turn down a deal that even their heads of state agree to. As it is some countries are not happy with what's being agreed.
The deal if it exists is being brokered on behalf of the 27 nations, by the EU as a whole, therefore none of them should have reason to refuse.
Thats not how the EU works - it being a multilayered democracy ( of sorts)
How very dare they, don't they know who we are?
I'm getting tired of the it's on again off again nonsense.
En anglais?
Sarcasm then brexit fatigue.