Are you equating genocide to a row over a cake? I also think Mladic is being tried by the UN
Do you guys think that it is good to be able to go above the highest court in the country?
I think it’s essential, as it happens. If only for helping keep our own courts free from interference from the executive, and for somewhere for people to turn when they are singled out for abuse from members of that executive. You see, being elected to national government should not mean you can then do anything you want, in my opinion, and checks and balances, including international courts, are essential to protect citizens from overreaching governments.
Or does this undermine determination of law by the UK?
It is also worth pointing out that Brexiteers are only keen on the rulings of UK courts when they get their own way.
'Enemies of the People' - ring any bells?
Go have a lie down and play Land of Hope and Glory and The Dambusters March a few times.
Daft thing is, I could play those tunes as well and feel good. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism - which contradicts another fallacy your ilk would have everyone believe.
Are you equating genocide to a row over a cake? I also think Mladic is being tried by the UN
Emotive straw man alert. The point is not the magnitude of the crime/issue but the ability of supranational justice to override national justice if the state in question goes rogue.
Incidentally, what is your opinion on the Asher case?
Surely referenda are highly democratic as everyone gets their say.
Indeed, referendums are, but they are expensive and time consuming so historically have been reserved for major constitutional issues.
I didn’t think everyone got a say. Did all the economic migrants get a vote? After all, they are potentially the worst affected.
Do you guys think that it is good to be able to go above the highest court in the country? Or does this undermine determination of law by the UK?
The case was referred to the ECHR, not an EU body by the way, as it is covered by the European convention on human rights. The court oversees the actions of signatories and we played a major part in setting it up, and part of its explicit remit to to hold national governments to account for their actions under the act. So in this case yes, the court is independent of any nation state so has no national or political bias, and can deliver judgements accordingly.
Incidentally, what is your opinion on the Asher case?
The same as the supreme court ruling
I didn’t think everyone got a say. Did all the economic migrants get a vote? After all, they are potentially the worst affected.
Only those from Cyprus,Malta and Ireland and commonwealth
Another one to ponder
Remember what I said earlier about non sequiturs and changing the subject? You asked a question about referendums and democracy, against my better judgement I took the time to compose a lengthy explanation, then you ignored it completely and started carping on about court cases. Do you have any comments on what I wrote or are you just deliberately wasting our time?
(Spoiler: the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU. It's the European court not the EU court, that's not going to change anytime soon unless you're going to get some great big boats to tow us over into the Pacific.)
For every
opinionfacts I read on here I can read a counter opinion elsewhere.
FTFY.
All opinions are not equal. I can be of the opinion that bananas are made from dead chimpanzees' willies, that doesn't mean that they are.
Do you guys think that it is good to be able to go above the highest court in the country? Or does this undermine determination of law by the UK?
You do know that we had British judges on the ECJ ?
And we're now in the daft position of the UK courts still having to consider ECJ rulings in their decisions, whilst no longer being part of the court or making its rules !
We also have to abide by plenty of international laws
And this worries me more
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-accused-of-planning-revenge-on-courts-tcxp9xjpj
The Tories getting all Victor Orban, every time the courts tell them off for breaking the law or make a decision they don't like eg illegal prorogation, begnum case, Heathrow appeal
Sure some of it is just virtue signalling, but it'sa worrying trend
worrying trend
The damage that crass shitheads like Johnson (egged on by maniacs like Cumstains) have done to british parliamentary democracy and the british judiciary may well rear their head again a few years down the line. That's the thing with setting precedents, jovial nobhead pushing through what he thinks is a jolly jape one minute, really nasty piece of work using the same procedure later for something much worse. It has been done before.
In any case, we digress.
Four and a bit years now, any Brexity types come up with any good, solid, will stand up to more than 30 seconds scrutiny, won't be immediately nullified by costs/downsides, tangible benefits of Brexit?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
This is called an echo chamber, and sure most of the frothing Brexies have long since departed as their particular lines of schtick have been shown to be bollocks, but the biggest echo of all, in all 'discussions' with Brexies is the reverberation of the question - why are we doing this?
why are we doing this?
We are taking back control. There will be lots more fish for us that we wont eat and less foreign type people that we dont like. No more being told what to do by Brussels. Getting Brexit done and having a new start. And some other stuff about the Blitz.
dougie - I have refrained from posting (much) to this thread recently but you are doing yourself no favours by posting comments/statements which are easily debunked; in fact, most of your posts have been shown to be nonsense.
You would help yourself by taking some time out to read up on brexit, exclusion from EU institutions, restricted access to Interpol information in an era of trans-national cyber crime, financial passporting, trade statistics, trade negotiations, the relative impotence of a small post-colonial country which is overly dependant on services, the realties of global trade, challenge yourself on what you consider to be facts, re-assess your views and then post again.
As things are, you have set yourself up to be shot at - and surprise, surprise that's what's happening.
less foreign type people that we dont like.
I like foreign people. They help me expand my horizons. They cook Interesting food. They teach me to insult my managers in a way they won’t understand. And they highlight the arseholes in society.
I know you were being facetious...
Do you have any comments on what I wrote or are you just deliberately wasting our time?
Yes I read it, understood it, had no comments to make and followed the last piece of guidance. Hence why I changed the subject.
I was asked for input it was rejected, I've been belittled that's fine, I'll take advise, read up and come back with more questions.
Yes I read it, understood it, had no comments to make
Well, eh, you either accept what I explained as correct or you think I'm wrong. Either of these standpoints is fine and furthers discussion. I'm perplexed as to how either of those merits "no comments".
I’ll take advise, read up and come back with more questions.
Can't wait
Four and a bit years now, any Brexity types come up with any good, solid, will stand up to more than 30 seconds scrutiny, won’t be immediately nullified by costs/downsides, tangible benefits of Brexit?
We could look to how the EU economy has shrunk relative to the rest of the world's economy? With the UK looking at it and wondering why we can't have a slice of that with out being kneecapped for leaving. We look at Switzerland, entirely surrounded by the EU yet enjoying it's benefits and still able to sign FTAs
I like foreign people. They help me expand my horizons. They cook Interesting food.
Very true I learn new Polish words everyday, I don't think Brexit changes the fact that people from other countries are appreciated and valued in the UK
[strong]dougiedogg[/strong] wrote:
I don’t think Brexit changes the fact that people from other countries are appreciated and valued in the UK
Then I suggest you open your eyes and look around you in that case!
I don’t think Brexit changes the fact that people from other countries are appreciated and valued in the UK
True, that particular journey was started in advance (windrush, hostile environments, etc.), Brexit merely a confirmation. Business as usual even (for some)... except now it’s also directed at non-black/brown people...
read up on brexit, exclusion from EU institutions, restricted access to Interpol information in an era of trans-national cyber crime, financial passporting, trade statistics, trade negotiations, the relative impotence of a small post-colonial country which is overly dependant on services, the realties of global trade,
Yeah, but two world wars and one world cup. And blue passports.
We could look to how the EU economy has shrunk relative to the rest of the world’s economy? With the UK looking at it and wondering why we can’t have a slice of that with out being kneecapped for leaving.
Because the EU is a bloc of 'developed', 'western' economies and institutions that have rightly rejected digging every possible hydrocarbon out of the ground as quickly as possible to generate wealth. A bloc of nations that is trying to hold the line against other parts of the world where safety and employment rights are virtually non-existent as people have no choice but to work 16 hours a day in sweatshops.
What is this 'slice' you refer to? Brexiteers would like it to be lowering of standards and employment rights to be able to undercut the club we have just kicked in the balls after 40 years and that is a mere 26 miles away. And they are just supposed to accept this and let us carry on as before and even let us undercut their own businesses by selling cheaper stuff back into their markets?
Can anyone imagine how long it would take to scrape all the gammon off of the inside of the playpen if this situation was reversed and, say, Scotland was playing a similar game?
But this is all about the 'now'. Five years max. With the world population growing as it is, and the UK what it is (a fading power living well beyond its means), I would much rather be in a club than being tossed around like a dog chew.
True, that particular journey was started in advance (windrush, hostile environments, etc.), Brexit merely a confirmation. Business as usual even (for some)… except now it’s also directed at non-black/brown people…
Yes but no mention of how the developed part of Europe is draining the populations of the med and east, but still expecting them to balance their books and pay a hefty share in terms of GDP for the recovery fund.
Because the EU is a bloc of ‘developed’, ‘western’ economies and institutions
But that's not totally the truth is it, refer to above. My Polish friends in work have made no moves to go back and prop up an economy which is ever more reliant on labour from Ukraine. The line sending money back home doesn't ring true either as they spend it here.
Yes but no mention of how the developed part of Europe is draining the populations of the med and east, but still expecting them to balance their books and pay a hefty share in terms of GDP for the recovery fund.
So the EU is now somehow responsible for actions taken by the British government 5 years ago? Maybe they also made Boris Johnson write all those racist comments about letter boxes and watermelon smiles. You didn’t mention that (see it’s an easy game isn’t it?) Or are you just trying to change the topic without answering, again.
So the EU is now somehow responsible for actions taken by the British government 5 years ago? Maybe they also made Boris Johnson write all those racist comments about letter boxes and watermelon smiles. You didn’t mention that (see it’s an easy game isn’t it?) Or are you just trying to change the topic without answering, again.
Please explian what those were?
However for whatever reason the EU failed to provide the UK with a highly compelling reason not to leave, other than knecapping us if we did.
I've now posted about the failure of the EU to address it's own north/south devide.
Asked for reasons of 'why?' I have now provided two in my last two posts.
Why do they need to provide those reasons? It was 'our' choice.
The reasons not to leave have been way more clearly and IMO compellingly expressed than any reasons to leave as part of the debate in the UK.
Brexiteers would like it to be lowering of standards and employment rights to be able to undercut the club we have just kicked in the balls after 40 years and that is a mere 26 miles away.
Sweeping generalisation and I'm sure very wrong considering the demographic of many of those who voted for Brexit.
However for whatever reason the EU failed to provide the UK with a highly compelling reason not to leave, other than knecapping us if we did.
The reasons not to leave are obvious...
The reasons to leave however, remain for some strange reason, illusory...
It’s about time you brexiteers stopped looking for someone else to sort out your problems. You’ve shit, sorry, made your bed...
other than knecapping us if we did.
How on earth are they kneecapping us?
All that's happening is that we lose the benefits of membership
That's a direct result of the brexit vote, it was dismissed by leavers as project fear, now it's reality
At some point Dougie you & other Leavers will have to grow up & accept responsibility for your actions
You've cost the country £bns & been unable to show that we will ever recoup the costs
At some point Dougie you & other Leavers will have to grow up & accept responsibility for your actions
That's been done, a Brexit PM has been installed a majority has been installed and Brexit is happening. If that's not taking responsibility I don't know what is.
All along I've been asked why? Now when I try to answer why I get.
Yeah, but two world wars and one world cup. And blue passports.
In an attempt to shut down debate on a thread entitled Brexit 2020+
All along I’ve been asked why? Now when I try to answer why I get.
Nope you're complaining about the EU kneecapping us
When it's been an entirely self inflicted kneecapping
Half the country think brexit is a gross mistake & they're not going to let leave voters forgot it
Yeah, but two world wars and one world cup. And blue passports.
In an attempt to shut down debate on a thread entitled Brexit 2020+
Actually, we all love a bit of debate. No one is trying to shut it down, well I don’t think so anyway. That jokey phrase held a lot of truth in it… the “Believe in the UK as an independent world beating country” feeling is at the heart of what is happening…
But we’re many years into the process now, as you said, this thread is about 2020+, we’re no longer members, so what we want to know is what the actual real benefits are going to be to you, me, and anyone else without their own offshore investment fund.
That jokey phrase held a lot of truth in it… the “Believe in the UK as an independent world beating country” feeling is at the heart of what is happening…
There is no compelling evidence for me that suggests that the UK is not a world beating country regardless of all of the stuff thrown at me here.
So it comes down to exceptionalism?
The UK is great at some things, that doesn't mean that putting up barriers to half our trade isnt a daft idea
& Despite your talk of a more ROW focused trade policy, neither you nor any brexiter has shown us a deal better than the ones we had via the EU
All you've got so far is a huge cost & a lot more red tape
I'm not sure what's world beating about that !
Your belief does not outweigh facts, Brexit has entirely been about belief rather than facts. Belief won't make us successful outside the EU though, try telling the US we believe we should get a better deal than they're going to offer and see what happens.
Really? I think you're in for a hell of a shock. We don't really make anything anymore, and the people with brains are leaving. Have fun working your 60 hour week on a zero hour contract.
Is Dougie ninfans new login?
Sweeping generalisation and I’m sure very wrong considering the demographic of many of those who voted for Brexit.
You still don't get it do you? What 95% of Leave voters thought they were voting for is never going to happen. Certainly not the bit about sharing in a 'Brexit Dividend' (funny how that one is never mentioned any more) after we've got rid of all those pesky forriners.
There is a syndrome that confidence tricksters know very well and exploit even better. I'm sure it has a name - I think I used to know it, but age and all that....
Anyway the premise is that once they have robbed Granny of her and her late husband's pension, they leave her with a choice, because she still has something that she values - her friends and family don't know, so she doesn't look stupid in their eyes. And this is the trickster's last little twist. All they have left you with, your last thing to cling on to, is your 'standing'. Admit you've been shafted due to gullibility and that evaporates.
In any case, it really is good to have a proper red, white and blue Brexie back in here. I didn't think your ilk still existed, so thanks. Now do what you guys always go on about. Puff your chest out, loudly claim your victory and own it*. Put some bunting up or something.
*At least until you need someone else to blame, of course.
world beating
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Have a nice day.
FTFY
So is being able to trade with the rest of the world on
ourtheirownterms instead of through the EU not a possible bonus of leaving?
Tbh it’s about more than trade.
Has Turkey joined yet?
Just about that only UK politician I can remember actively pushing for Turkey to join the EU was Boris Johnson.
