The Telegraph:
unfortunately I think the response of many who voted for brexit will be "thats because we didnt do the job properly" and so they will vote for Farage who is denying all responsibility for the mess and confidently announcing it would have been different if he was ****ing things up.
Sad but true. He's still spinning his 'they need us more than we need them' line and claims he's going to renegotiate the whole thing and get a better deal.
I can't think of a single human being on the planet less likely to get a better deal from the EU, but you know... when did the average Brexiteer/Reform voter let a minor inconvenience like reality intrude on proceedings
Daisy Cooper was on the UK radio this morning saying that Labour is missing an open goal by not spelling out to the people the significant effect Brexit has had on the economy. Lewis Goodall didn't interrupt.
But the UK will never get the deal they had.
I just can't fathom it. Labour is getting slaughtered for various reasons, but mainly because the economy is staggering around in a ditch. But they are so terrified of 'betraying brexit' that they have to wait for the 'sovrinty' knuckleheads to realise what they've done to themselves (and everyone else) before they try to start reversing the damage. Show some bloody leadership and do the right thing, even if it means getting turfed out in 2028, because it looks increasingly like that will happen despite trying to appease the idiots and opportunists who still claim to support Brexit.
The price of all that sovereignty that you’ve got sloshing around 🙂
Don’t forget the U.K. still has to pay a few more billion over the next few years to settle up and then a few more billion if they want market access.
Still a few tories got play to play at being PM and Farage got a few quid out of it.
it’s infuriating how little they actually got to the financial obligations they stitched the country up for 🙁
I had a look at a few pages of the original in-out referendum thread. What we're living now was all so predictable and predicted. The Guardian at the time irritated me by claiming to be remain whilst running tittle tattle negative stories of no consequence about European countries in most editions. Sometimes though a columnist was on the money:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-supporters-leave-vote-right?CMP=share_btn_tw ]Interesting
That Toynbee article is strikingly prescient
Labour is missing an open goal by not spelling out to the people the significant effect Brexit has had on the economy
Labour voted for it!
Having Corbyn as leader during the referendum only helped the leave side. His inaction & leaving the Tory's to get on with it rather than calling out the whole thing as utterly ridiculous only helped Farage, Johnson & co.
As always, Corbyn represented his own lifelong Brexiteer views, rather than the predominantly pro-EU leanings of his party, his MPs, Labour members and voters.
He enforced 3-line whips for Labour MPs to facilitate Brexit, against their instincts in large part, at every turn
Corbyn has to shoulder a hell of a lot of the responsibility for the mess we’re in.
Not that he ever will, of course. Like all the rest of the people responsible for it, he’s simply shrugged and walked away from the smoldering wreckage
Which was only to be expected from Corbyn who had been consistently anti-EU for the previous 40 years voting against in 75 then against the Maastricht then... I'm sure this kind of list has been linked before but it's a reminder to raise a digit to Your Party and all who sail in that sinking ship:
https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
Now where was I on that job list... .
Starmer was also a 3-line-whip Brexiter as soon as he was elected leader. Don't put this all on Corbyn.
Starmer was also a 3-line-whip Brexiter as soon as he was elected leader. Don't put this all on Corbyn.
They have to since otherwise they will need to accept responsibility for ****ing the country up and creating the perfect environment for people who had been let down by the centrist governments choosing option c for a hope of a change.
These are the sort of people who will read the account of the "remain" campaign and nod along with it blaming Corbyn for everything without managing to wonder that, just possibly, if your opponents were trying to do an anti elite campaign it might be best not to select your senior staff from the new labour and tory elites or, unfortunately, not even that but their offspring and associates.
It might also need them to think that, as always, Camerons victories help set up the damage for the next time with those who campaigned alongside him especially during the Scottish Referendum campaign ending up damaged by the association.
Then there is the simple fact the media selected who they would follow and that didnt include Corbyn. Which doesnt mean he didnt campaign but just not being one of the London elite like Cameron, Johnson and Farage he didnt get the post.
That is all true. But on this specific point it’s far simpler than that, Corbyn wanted Remain to lose, so he didn’t get in the way of them doing so. It wouldn’t have mattered if the result wasn’t so close. Most people who voted were not swung in any way by Corbyn’s “efforts” during the campaign, or that a Labour leader had historically been so, er, “luke warm” (I’m being charitable) about Europe… but the tiny minority that were matter in such a close call.
Starmer was also a 3-line-whip Brexiter as soon as he was elected leader. Don't put this all on Corbyn.
They have hardly covered themselves in glory since, however at the time they weren't leading the party - so that buck stops with Corbyn.
If I recall correctly, he mostly let the Tories carry out their psychodrama without making any case to remain until the last & it was a grudging yeah it'd be best to stay in the EU.
he mostly let the Tories carry out their psychodrama without making any case to remain until the last & it was a grudging yeah it'd be best to stay in the EU.
No he did campaign but it just didnt get the press attention. Now traditionally the counter argument has been that was all his fault but that seems to have dropped off as the glorious leader Starmer is also struggling with that. Although there are plenty who still somehow manage it.
For the grudging. I would say realistic but again a good example of the press highlighting just a few words. I guess he could have lied through his teeth and claimed it was 12 out of 10 but I am not convinced by that as a plan.
A problem for the remain campaign in general around being realistic about the issues since people can actually see them vs just claiming how glorious leaving would be.
For the grudging. I would say realistic but again a good example of the press highlighting just a few words. I guess he could have lied through his teeth and claimed it was 12 out of 10 but I am not convinced by that as a plan.
You can focus on “one little line”, the truth is much bigger than that… years of what he had said and done before the campaign… and then deliberately going missing, dropping key messages, and being lacking during it. All but the last part of that has come from multiple sources including allies. That last one… well only he can know what happened there… might be just because he’s not very good at campaigning, but I’d rather look at his history… where he has shown to be an energetic campaigner… but against not for Europe.
None of it really matters anymore - Corbyn failed massively on this, but Starmer is just as bad if not worse as he's actually in a position to do something about it.
However - it would appear pointing out the obvious to our electorate while the Tories, Reform & Press are basically shouting you down that you are wrong & throwing shite from the sidelines means the obvious doesn't get through.
But I'm excited that we now have the prospect of trial without a jury & leaving the ECHR, having already had my rights stripped away I look forward to more of them going.
The government threard wandered into talk of brexit resets recently
The damage is looking bigger than first thought
https://bsky.app/profile/p-hunermund.com/post/3mdwztgevkk2e
Another source reporting much the same:
https://econofact.org/the-economic-costs-of-brexit-on-the-uk
So while we are "definitely not" rejoining or looking at freedom of movement, we are looking at closer ties with our neighbours and the advantages that brings...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-uk-iran-war-starmer-trump-b2950050.html
Still just fiddling around the edges and will make no significant difference
Still just fiddling around the edges and will make no significant difference
Regrettably TJ, I think you are right. But please allow us a little hope as the shit show is worn away bit by bit until someone has the gumption to go back to the country to formally rejoin ( after a referendum and if they will have us back!!)
I agree it's so minor.
But, its a slow change in attitudes, followed by a change in the practicalities. Opens the door in a few years to a 'well, we're pretty much aligned anyway, why don't we take the benefits as well?' statement from a politician.
It's a decade off mind.
and if they will have us back!!
Exactly. It still amazes me how many miss this, the bigger issue.
It's a decade off mind.
It’s a generation off.
Well that’s my view, FWIW.
I've said with each crisis of the last few years the sensible move economically would be to re-align with the EU and rejoin overtime.
The EU would have us back tomorrow - just not on the preferential terms we had before - there is just too much benefit in having such a big economy back in the EU. I'm sure there would be some political posturing for domestic reasons and negotiating terms.
Ultimately I guess it depends on the next GE - a rainbow coalition would be very pro-EU and blue coalition would obviously not be
Well, I'm not seeing seat projections that make a rainbow alliance workable. A Tory Reform one however is looking much more likely to form a government and that's assuming Reform need the Torys at all.
I agree it's so minor.
But, its a slow change in attitudes, followed by a change in the practicalities. Opens the door in a few years to a 'well, we're pretty much aligned anyway, why don't we take the benefits as well?' statement from a politician.
It's a decade off mind.
TBH it’s probably not really a change in attitude but more of letting the Brexiters/Faragists naturally die out.
The issue is if you get a fresh generation of grifters ready to take the reins.
The EU would have us back tomorrow - just not on the preferential terms we had before - there is just too much benefit in having such a big economy back in the EU. I'm sure there would be some political posturing for domestic reasons and negotiating terms.
My view is that we tend to underestimate the damage that Brexit and its associated hate and lies has done to our standing in Europe in general and especially those who will actually negotiate and implement any future/eventual agreement.
just not on the preferential terms we had
You’re not kidding.
Ultimately I guess it depends on the next GE
A small part of a very long journey with some very tough negotiations. The EU never really took to ‘oven ready chicken’ they prefer to put the effort in and take a long term view.
Other views available.
Well, I'm not seeing seat projections that make a rainbow alliance workable. A Tory Reform one however is looking much more likely to form a government and that's assuming Reform need the Torys at all
Any seat projection now is basically rubbish. Even if a GE was next month hey don't take account of tactical voting - keeping reform out will be a key vote. Even true with the MRP eg More in Common recent MRP poll showing Reform one seat short of a majority on 28% of vote share but doesn't take account of tactical voting as they say in their analysis. They also point out a large number of multi party marginals very sensitive to tactical voting.
That said it's sobering reading
https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/latest-insights/more-in-common-s-april-2026-mrp/
If we don't have a way (and the means) to keep us aligned, we'll diverge as the EU moves forward... even if we don't actively diverge (as Reform and the Tories are screaming at us to do). So these measures are needed JUST TO AVOID THINGS GETTING WORSE... worrying about how much/little they'll improve the situation is a nice to have argument, but they are essential just to prevent further decline.
Any seat projection now is basically rubbish.
Yes... But... Key point here... It is now.
We're obviously not going to get a seat projection based on exit polls so you can only work with current sentiment. As such, it ain't rubbish, it's just highly likely to change due to the lack of crystal balls or a TARDIS.
As I said in my post it's rubbish because the polls don't(and can't) take account of tactical voting. The seat projections have Reform winning loads of sears on small majorities in three and four way marginals. In reality it's likely that some not very remarkable tactical voting would take away a lot of those wins.
Therefore if a General election was tomorrow the seats won would be nothing like the seat projections.
The polling is fine for voting preference and showing how unpopular the Government is. Also likely to play through in the locals where people are less likely to vote tactically
I agree. Reform getting the most votes, but not the most seats (because of tactical voting and our regional demographics and voting system), is still what I think the current polls point to. But even if they don't end up in government, that's going to cause huge problems for this country. Especially when it comes to rebuilding our relationship with the rest of Europe.
