I bet he does, on the quiet.
Did you get that from reading between the lines in his speeches? You do seem to have a unique insight into his 4D chess like maneuvers.
The “start of the process” is to stop all the UK government talk of aggressive diversion on standards for competitive gain.
No, the start of the process is to go, 'Hey Fritz, how do we join your stupid trading bloc that we hate but seem to need for some unexplainable reason?'
To which Fritz (actual name, Jean-Xavier) says, 'Simply do what we tell you, when we tell you, without question, and give us all the money you used to give us when you were relevant, and you will be allowed to buy our stuff again.'
You remeber what happened the last time millions of people decided to ‘waste’ their votes as a sort of protest against the establishment?
Brexit.
Your revolution already happened
You seem to not understand, well, anything to be blunt, but by some weird alignment of the planets you've actually gotten the right answer.
Protest votes work.
Bruce clearly wants another Tory government, in the hope that their rape and pillage approach to managing the country will provoke the supine populace into an armed rebellion. It's a nice thought, but it isn't going to happen, and the Tories won't be put off by a bit of slightly louder tutting as they grind their jackboots into our faces.
onewheelgood clearly wants to rape puppies.
But at least TJ like me (and some others on this thread) has the ability to vote for a Party that's 100% pro-EU, in Govt and who the EU will trust.
For what that's worth. How long have the SNP been at the controls North of the border? How's that independence thing going? Much progress? And now they've elected a continuity candidate. More of the same eh?
You can't always have what you want and if you can you can't always have it right now.
Very unlikely that anyone would ever call me a dog lover.
How’s that independence thing going?
Stillnunder the heel of imperial jackboots🤣🙄
I haven't read everything up there, and the name calling is a bit of a turn-off, but...
I reckon that things could change quite quickly.
Lots of things happening
- Sunak has put a big hole in the brexit argument (and the ERG and DUP) by agreeing the NIP deal (which is great news)
- people are hacked off with lack of tomatoes - and those scenarios are going to keep happening
- business is making it very clear that they are suffering
- Sewage
- NHS vacancies are shocking - with all that entails
- queues for airport passport control etc etc
- insane immigration bollocks
are pi**ing off the wider population, and public opinion seems to be moving strongly toward Brexit being a mistake
People ultimately want a decent QOL and at the moment the tories are doing everything they can to worsen that.
So there could be a tipping point fairly soon where everyone just says WTAF - we should do the sensible thing.
It's just who sees that first.... my money is on Starmer cos he's pragmatic, even if at the moment he's playing it cagey.....
It's not 4D chess, just basic politicianing chapter 1 stuff.
But at least TJ like me (and some others on this thread) has the ability to vote for a Party that’s 100% pro-EU
Errm...
The Liberal Democrats:
We support a fairer and more equal, tolerant and connected world and collaboration with the UK's neighbours - including, ultimately, rejoining the EU - in guaranteeing peace and security, tackling the climate and nature emergencies, standing up to corporate power and spreading prosperity around the world.
How long have the SNP been at the controls North of the border? How’s that independence thing going? Much progress? And now they’ve elected a continuity candidate. More of the same eh?
The Liberal Democrats
Lol.
I mean yes, I know that in theory if no-one voted tactically then the electoral landscape would be pretty different, but in practice that doesn't happen as we all know. Honestly I think that the shitty electoral system is the single biggest issue facing the UK, even bigger than Brexit.
Sunak has already outmanoeuvered Starmer in the pro-EU direction. He's neutered his frothing europhobes and is working to improve relationships (slightly).
My prediction is that the tories will go full rejoin before labour. And when they do, they'll quite possibly get my vote.
Errm…
The Liberal Democrats:
The Lib-Dems are for getting government positions and against not getting government positions. Apart from that you really don't know what you're voting for.
I don't believe in 'wasted' votes but if ever there was a wasted vote it's a vote for the Lib-dems.
My prediction is that the tories will go full rejoin before labour.
I think this is correct.
My prediction is that the tories will go full rejoin before labour. And when they do, they’ll quite possibly get my vote.
That will be one of the most difficult decisions I'll have to make but I'd probably be joining you.
The Tories adopting a pro Single Market and/or Customs union position in opposition would be fantastic. I'm not holding my breath though. And it wouldn't get me voting for them (and nor would I need to as they wouldn't be alone in holding that position for long, even if they got there first).
If you think that the Tories will ever be proposing joining the EU... not in our lifetimes.
Well I've probably got about 30 years, that's long enough to see a lot of changes.
I think Sunak would do it just to piss Dumbojo off and who knows what Victorian term Jacob cream cracker has referred to him as.
Sunak has always wanted us outside the EU... Johnson doesn't really care... he just saw a route to power.
My prediction is that the tories will go full rejoin before labour. And when they do, they’ll quite possibly get my vote.
Wow, would rejoining really be worth handing power back to this lot ? After everything they've done over the last 13 years ? The absolute shitshow they've managed ? The corruption, the waste, the excess deaths, the austerity, the cronyism, the sleaze, the lying, the debasing of standards in public office, the othering and division ?
More of that just to rejoin the EU ? I don't think so.
My prediction is that the tories will go full rejoin before labour. And when they do, they’ll quite possibly get my vote.
I for one have now read it all. I've completed the internet! 🤣
I mean yes, I know that in theory if no-one voted tactically then the electoral landscape would be pretty different, but in practice that doesn’t happen as we all know. Honestly I think that the shitty electoral system is the single biggest issue facing the UK, even bigger than Brexit.
I agree, as long as people think they have to vote Labour purely on a 'keep the tories out' ticket then they are perpetuationg the 2 party problem, both Labour and the conservatives have nailed thier pro-brexit colours to the mast, which means that I will not vote for either.
The public mood has been moving against brexit for a fair while. I wanted Starmer to show some leadership and lead public opinion. He flunked it. I believe that would have made more gains than losses.
He has painted himself into a corner
with the press in this country the way it is, it probably only can come from the tories but it doesn't mean we have to thank them for it :/
"He has painted himself into a corner"
And then painted on the wall "I'm a ****"
pro-brexit colours
Psst... Brexit has happened... or at least is happening and we're past the point where it can be stopped.
What we're talking about now in this thread is fixing the relationships with have with everyone else in Europe (with a sider order of pointing out what a **** up we've made to better understand the work needed to fix things). One day that fixing might even result in us being back in the EU as a member, it's a dream I share. But the next election isn't about stopping Brexit, that ship has sailed. Understanding that isn't a "pro-Brexit" position... Brexit was a self defeating move for the workers of the UK... but the next steps are not to "undo Brexit", they are to stop the slide towards a mid-atlantic libertarian minimal rights maximum inequality garrison shored off the coast of Europe, and begin the long hard work of rebuilding trust and negotiating living side by side and working closely with the EU and the other countries of Europe and beyond.
I agree, as long as people think they have to vote Labour purely on a ‘keep the tories out’ ticket then they are perpetuationg the 2 party problem
So lets perpetuate a 1 party system instead, where we have a permanent Tory government
Hurrah for logic!
they are to stop the slide towards a mid-atlantic libertarian minimal rights maximum inequality garrison shored off the coast of Europe, and begin the long hard work of rebuilding trust and negotiating living side by side and working closely with the EU and the other countries of Europe and beyond.
I would like to hear how starmer is going to do this if he wants my vote.
Ruffling up his hair , not tucking his shirt in while chanting Make Brexit Work is probably as good as we are going to get.
Start with food (people care about food, and it’s become a larger and larger part of many people’s budget). Agreements on vet checks, food and farm standards… sorting that will keep everyone busy for a year or two. Nothing to be gained by taking the other route and allowing USA or India standards in the UK… well not for anyone living and based and earning solely in the UK anyway.
The Lib-Dems are for getting government positions and against not getting government positions. Apart from that you really don’t know what you’re voting for.
I don’t believe in ‘wasted’ votes but if ever there was a wasted vote it’s a vote for the Lib-dems.
Said before but despite my general support of Labour's position on many things, and a grudging acceptance that (in my opinion at least) the position taken on rejoin is a tactical one to avoid alienating the red wall / hero voters in the article above - a vote on them would be wasted in my constituency. They will never beat the tories, only the LibDem's have that opportunity under our system where I am.
So any vote that isn't for the LibDems is just increasing the likelihood that we return another tory MP. So please don't tell me my vote is being wasted when i use it in that way.
I've agonised over how far I'd extend that - as useless as they are at least their policies and record isn't abhorrent..... how abhorrent could it be before 'at least it's not the tories' is no longer enough.
So lets perpetuate a 1 party system instead, where we have a permanent Tory government
Hurrah for logic!
So let's vote for a pro brexit party who are only marginaly less usless, disorganised and and incompentent than the conservatives?
'Vote labour because we are not the tories' seems to be the only thing labour has going for it.
Yay logic!
vote with your conscience but like much in real life making perfection the enemy of good is unrealistic and you will end up with neither. in all likely-hood if enough people were taking the position of 'they're all the same' which has been the message of the tories in order to brush off any and all criticisms, while they watch porn, perpetrate sexual assaults and bully, siphon off vast sums of money and completely destroy the public services in this country then it really is more of the same you'll get. the tories need to be removed and if it means holding your nose i would urge you to do so because if you think public services will survive or expect living standards to improve in any respect for anyone but the richest in this country under another 5 years of tory rule you're very much mistaken.
the tories need to be removed and if it means holding your nose i would urge you to do so
So vote Lib dem then? glad we agree.
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vote with your conscience but like much in real life making perfection the enemy of good is unrealistic and you will end up with neither.
That works on the assumption its "good" as opposed to "not quite as shite".
You mention the "they are all the same". Whilst the tories are keen on pushing it now, especially with regards to corruption and lying, its got a longer history than that. We got it when labour decided to chase the swing voters at all costs and ignored the traditional voters because "who else do they have to vote for".
Well it turns out either they dont vote or they vote for anyone actually promising change.
Not surprising considering all the good stuff new labour offered was easily jetisoned whilst the stuff they carried over from Thatcher and co was written in stone.
So given Starmers tactic seems to be exactly the same triangulation, albeit of a slightly different group, why should we be expecting a different outcome?
If that's what's required crack on. I've an excellent labour mp who sadly is standing down. I'll vote for his successor and see how he works out.
So given Starmers tactic seems to be exactly the same triangulation, albeit of a slightly different group, why should we be expecting a different outcome?
Because… real incomes for the lower paid… NHS outcomes… etc.
I can give you a list as long as my arm about things Labour governments have done in my lifetime that I disagreed with… but every one would have still happened if they hadn’t been elected and the Tories stayed in. On top of that stuff that made me angry, they also improved public services and the lives of many people who the Tories would have left to rot in that period. Look at the last 12 years… especially those since Cameron got his majority… yes a “triangulating” Labour government might have given us some of this shit, but not most of it. Just start with fast falling real incomes for workers and waiting for NHS care… and work outwards from there.
This is in danger of becoming “that thread” though… where’s Binner’s signpost image…?
I'll let to into the UK's worst kept secret, If labour get into power they'll set out a load of unsustainable borrowing and taxation fantasies, they'll do one term tops, accomplish nothing other than a load of in-fighting between the left and the moderates of the party, (sound fammiliar?) and the tories will be back in straight after.
Round and round we go...
Election results follow the leader's popularity a lot more closely than the party's. It's fair to say there's not much between starmer and sunak in the sense that they're both pretty level headed and boring but starmer has a small lead in popularity. If anyone expects labour to romp home on the basis of the party's polling I think they're in for a shock, and worse, if people are complacent we could get the Tories again despite how unlikely that may be considered.
And yet the maligned new labour had an extensive length of time in office. Longest term of any labour government iirc. It's almost like the general pop want something vaguely left of centre but don't want the horses scaring.
Rishi Sunak's wife holds shares in childcare firm given Budget boost
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65115204
Mr Sunak mentions Ms Murthy's venture capital company, Catamaran Ventures, in his list of ministerial interests, but does not mention Koru Kids.
The PM also did not mention Ms Murthy's links to Koru Kids when he was questioned by MPs over the policy at a parliamentary committee hearing on Tuesday.
The latest bit of sleaze, hell, it's hardly a blip on the radar these days though with the Tories. I bring it up as I just don't buy the whole "they are all the same".
As far as Brexit, I'd love Labour to campaign for rejoining BUT...what if some of the informed pundits are right and Labour goes to the polls on a rejoin footing and it loses them the election?
Holy sh*t, can you imagine if the Tories win the next election what state the UK will be in? I can't bare to even envisage it. If I stay up into the early hours on election day and it becomes clear that the Tories will win again I'll honestly be feeling sick with despair. Utterly sick.
I want Labour to hold their crap together and don't do ANYTHING that gifts the next term to the Tories.
I'll worry about Brexit and all the other crap the Tories have "gifted" the country after they are out.
I've always voted Labour but would gladly vote for the Lib Dems, Greens etc as long as it keeps the Tories out.
That's where I am at.
I’ll let to into the UK’s worst kept secret, If labour get into power they’ll set out a load of unsustainable borrowing and taxation fantasies, they’ll do one term tops, accomplish nothing other than a load of in-fighting between the left and the moderates of the party, (sound fammiliar?) and the tories will be back in straight after.
Straight out of the DM. Maybe you should look at the New Labour years and see what happened to the NHS, education and many other public services and also what happened to government debt. Then look at what happened in the 13 years since then.
Exactly the same psycology as 'unless you vote labour' you may as well vote tory. Yawn.
