the majority want a closer relation than now
The journey back is long and slow, and even when finished will fall well short of what we had. That's why it was such a foolish thing to do. You can't just leave and try it out for a bit and return quickly if you change your mind. Leaving has a long term negative effect, and will take another decade or more of hard work minimising the damage. There's no quick fix, just a long slow repair. This week has given us a small glimmer of hope that even this government are acknowledging that, with steps towards keeping NI working well with the rest of Ireland and the EU and dropping the bill that would have created a crisis in the UK:EU relationship over the island of Ireland, and also some involvement in Horizon in the future for the UK... hopefully.
They would like to sell us more stuff, trade and make things in the UK with less faff. Trade is good so long as it’s fair tradeSo customs union yes.
Singapore on Thames in your back yard is irritating so limiting the UK’s financial excesses, money laundering and dodgy financial services would be good. Regulatory allignment will be a condition of any progress.
The EU will barter what it wants for what the UK desperately needs. It’s started.
In the long terme I expect a Swiss or Norway type deal
? Switzerland and Norway are outside of the Customs Union. Trade between the EU members and those countries involves border controls and paperwork. This type of deal does not exactly equal less faff.
We’ve been through this Molgrips. Recent polling on Brexit and rejoining says the majority want a closer relation than now. Labour’s refusal to consider the most obvious compromise of a Norway deal will lose more votes than it will win.
We also did that not all votes are necessarily worth the same. The majority of people don't matter if they are already in safe seats, whether red or blue. They won't make red seats more red, and won't make enough of a difference when it comes to it in blue ones.
It's how a change of policy would sit with those that are swing voters in marginal seats. Which is a risky spin and which might not be needed right now, when the primary goal is to get the Tories out with as big an impact to them as possible.
That doesn't make me an apologist, rather a pragmatist. Maybe even a dishonest one, if you consider playing the game to win as big as possible more important than sticking to my absolute opinion.
We’ve been through this Molgrips.
Yes sir, sorry sir. Won't do it again sir.
molgrips
Full MemberStarmer won’t be PM in the long term. He can rule out what he needs to now, to ensure election
This was a kind of convincing argument when they were tied in the polls. Now, it's not. He's not doing this through necessity, he's s leading where he wants to go.
psst ... he's "won" f all so far ... losing the next election is still possible ... but let's not replicate "that thread" here
Agree, polls could easily swing back tories way, especially if economy picks up, that would also change sentiment toward rejoining
Likewise a big eurozone recession would change that too.
Whoever is leading Labour has a v narrow line to tread
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter are still ignoring the bind that our deeply undemocratic voting system puts him in. @theotherjohnv pointed out above that not all votes are worth the same, and Raphael Behr wrote today "There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends".
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
I suppose this means they can now get with the good old USA deal.
I read that Raphael Behr article earlier and have to admit it was one of the most sensible analyses of Brexit as it now stands that I have seen.
“There is no Brexit position that can satisfy Labour’s liberal Remainer base without repelling the leave voters on whom a majority depends”.
I get the sneaking suspicion that Starmer wants his majority first, and hopes that within a first term, a combination of demographic shift, fatigue, worsening domestic economic circumstances etc make the popular clamour for closer ties and easier trade with the EU impossible to ignore.
Well they've snuck this 'Benefit' out quietly:
Frontline police and border force officers will remain locked out of information on a key EU database of terror suspects, criminals and immigration offenders for at least another four years, the Home Office has quietly admitted.
What's the point of vetting travellers if you can't do basic checks on them?
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?
You do know that the result was within statistical margins of error and a significant amount of water has flowed under that bridge by now?
All of you who claim that Starmer has become a Brexiter………………
Are just trying to bully by name calling, same as they are by saying the same about anyone else who accepts them at a majority of people voted to leave and that’s what we’ve had to do.
Presumably they’re doing it because bullying by belittling and name calling has proven such a successful tactic for Remain Ultras ever since 2016 and has had nothing to do with handing us the most right wing government ever.
Wow, that's some serious gaslighting... lol!
Is calling someone a brexiter bullying now?
I was called a racist for saying the word gammon.
Isn’t this another thing that was floated in the ‘May’ days now being pulled out the bin and recycled like the original ‘Oven ready’ deal.
Yep, Express Lanes.
And love the quote zippy, in fact love it enough to repeat it:
"nonsense, anyone can be a gammon if they stop thinking long enough" 🙂
Interesting seeing the list of the 22 who voted against the protocol.
Voted against:
48 Tory didn't vote, some will be partnered with the opposition and some will have abstained.
That odious slug Nick Ferrari getting his arse handed to him over Brexit by Marina Purkiss, I thought she was going to say “Are you ****ing joking” at one point
https://twitter.com/marinapurkiss/status/1638539489470496769?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
Is going to get easier and easier to shoot these idiots down as each year passes and the EU fares much better than us.
Not one surprise in that list.
Not one surprise in that list.
The only big surprise was Steve 'Hardman of Brexit' Baker not on the list. Amazing what a ministerial job does for your principals.
And in an epic volte face referred to Boris as ‘a Poundland Farage’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64596453
Gene-edited food can now be developed commercially in England following a change in the law.
Yay, Brexit.
^^ In fairness, I'm not totally opposed to gene edited food, there could be some huge benefits globally... BUT I get where you are coming from.
Caher
Full Member
Even if you start growing feathers?
Got that already from the dose of avian flu I had.😉
If only somebody, anybody had raised concerns about this potentially happening
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1639907529760161792?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Told a couple of Brexit evangelist biking mates this morning but they don't care. Final salary pensions, couple of houses bought and rented out and 90 day holidays in Spain.
Why should they care,sounds like they can scrape together the proof of income/savings of €33.5k for a couple to get a residency to retire here if they so wish.
Up slightly from the pre-Brexit €11k(tbh could be less for a couple was €5,538 an individual as to the not a member club membership fee of €27k) 🙁
Let's hope Labour have seen this poll:
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_consoc_20230321.html
No shit sherlock 🙂
Trouble is Starmer has made his pitch and its "make brexit work" He cannot change course now
He has time. If this sentiment continues he'll have no choice to change tack will he?
He has successfully ignored that sentiment and indeed any sensible position on the EU for years already
His job is to follow the research (to obtain the maximum possible votes) not act like a biased remainer.
Which has been obvious remain is a vote winner for years that he chose to ignore.
Which has been obvious remain is a vote winner for years that he chose to ignore.
Based on your extensive polling and research?
No - other peoples that made it quite clear. How long have I been saying this?
Starmers fear of racists in his party and in the red wall seats led him to be an enthusiastic brexiteer and its clearly been a huge mistake as has been obvious for a long time
How long have I been saying this?
Ages, and you still haven't got it 🙂
Freedom of Movement for the rich was never at risk.
Actually, not fully true. A pair of very wealthy ultra-gammons who have a place in our village in Austria and campaigned vociferously for Brexit recently tried to get their residency there to get around the 90 day limit. Apparently they were 95% of the way there but couldn’t get health insurance because of their age.
They wrote to an Austrian newspaper complaining how it was unfair.
I had a lovely time winding them up on Facebook.
^^ I'm a bad, bad person but that did make me smile.😁
