The disaster capitalists are licking their lips in anticipation and most people (particularly the **** who voted for it) are gleefully unaware of the chaos that is about to be unleashed
The Friday evening after the 2019 General Election I sat with my OH at the kitchen island and we were discussing the result and the impact on ordinary (and especially poor) folk. My response?
"**** 'em"
She looked in surprise as I've been a solid left-wing voter my entire life.
"No, **** 'em. Far too many of them just voted to either be shat on or to shit on others. So **** 'em. Their lives are going to get really, really difficult. But they voted for this as they believe that it's OTHER peoples lives that are going to be impacted, not them."
The only question I can't answer is, were they gullible as well as selfish?
This is the real reason for Brexit. This is what they wanted all along. They get to torch workers rights, food standards, environmental controls and pretty much everything else they don’t like, all literally overnight
Very much this.
Cue much leaning on Sunak to get this through parliament sharpish so they can render us as a direct competitor to Bangladesh for standards of working.
I genuienely can't believe even the Brexiteers are not even the slight bit concerned, do they think all these 'bendy banana' rules won't affect them in the least? Even if workers rights are taken away, do they not realise its going to make it even harder to trade with the EU and each business is going to have to prove its working to EU standards to send stuff there.
That EV battery plant not coming means we're never going to be able to make cars to sell in the EU now as the point of origin rules are going to come into effect and not enough will actually have been built here.
I hope the red wallers will be happy with their 6 day working week and 2 weeks holiday.
I genuienely can’t believe even the Brexiteers are not even the slight bit concerned
A lot of people simply have no idea about any of it. They don't know the first thing. Tories have played on people's sentiment to make them feel positive, that's it. They don't know anything at all about how countries are run or what the implications of laws are. It'd be like asking a 5 year old child if they think it's a good idea.
“**** ’em”
I don't agree with this. A great many poor people didn't vote Tory, or Brexit, but they will still be in the shit. A great many were lied to and don't have the ability to realise it. So they are victims, their kids are victims, we all are victims and we will all suffer.
When gullible sweet old ladies are scammed out of their life savings, do you also think '**** em'?
When gullible sweet old ladies are scammed out of their life savings, do you also think ‘**** em’?
When they have been told many times over its a scam and they still do it then its hard to be sympathetic.
No brexit voter is guilt free. many of them did this deliberately to harm folk - because the main driver was racism and the brexiteers played on that.
Some people definitely voted for it to stick a finger in the eye of people like me who got a bit ahead in life and escaped a poor economic situation. Unfortunately, they were successful both in general and specifically with regards to me.
A great many were lied to and don’t have the ability to realise it.
You were fed an information set based on your pre-existing trends and beliefs through social media or your choice of newspaper.
The accurate information was out there and available to everyone but a lot of people chose to ignore it.
I only know a couple of Brexiters. One is my brother in law who is also an anti-vaxxer, refused to wear a mask at any time, conspiracy theorist, listens to JHB. He’s abusive/controlling to his wife. He’s not thick, a chartered accountant. He’s just an absolute ****.
Good old bRexit
I’m still stuck in my personal Brexit timewarp,but alledgely I’ll be getting my driving licence back with 3 months,I reckon it’s been six months that I’ve been unable to drive due to licence not being recognised in Spain !!!
I’m looking forward to finding out what other Brexit ‘gotchas’ await in the future.
Backlog on residency also creates interesting side effects,It’s literally years since I’ve been U.K. side and if I leave Spain now that allegedly indicates that I no longer wish to proceed with my residency application.
Legal advice is don’t leave Spain.
Interestingly I do wonder if I went to Portugal on my holiday and got stopped by the police whether they would send me back to the U.K. as currently no right to stay in the E.U (well other than Mrs DoD having residency)and a long term overstayer.
<rant>
Ah well the joys of voting with your feet, Brexit affects me daily and I’m not even in your country.
If you don’t like it in the U.K. **** off to your beloved eu they said on FB 🙂
</rant>
That EV battery plant not coming means we’re never going to be able to make cars to sell in the EU now as the point of origin rules are going to come into effect and not enough will actually have been built here.
Thats the symptom not the cause though, who were they going to sell to?
Nissan? Built their own
JLR? Tata's building one for them
Mini - On its way out of the UK
Honda - Gone
Ford - Gone
So you have Vauxhall, and a handful of sports cars that might need batteries in the UK. Im pretty sure the whole business plan must have hinged on exporting to the EU.
The accurate information was out there and available to everyone but a lot of people chose to ignore it.
Some, maybe, but a huge number of people just don't have the mental capacity or the will to look for information.
People just want to feel good - we all do. This is how our brains work, deep down. So if you tell people something that makes them feel good, they won't question it because they won't like the answers. Most of us are like the 'bad guy' in the Matrix who doesn't want to leave it - we choose what we want to question and what we accept. Most people on this thread are critical thinkers, it's true, but that's because we value critical thinking - it makes us feel good to consider ourselves as such. Sure, you don't feel good about Brexit, but you feel good about being a remainer, don't you? Deep down? I do, because I feel that remain was and is the right thing to do.
It is possible for people to deconstruct their emotions and ideas - but you have to want to do that and you have to have the faculties to do it in the first place. The alternative is to listen to whoever is saying the things that make you feel good. People aren't consciously or actively choosing not to know - they just don't feel the need to ask the questions that result in the knowledge because they are hearing things that make them feel good, and that's all any of us need.
Pretty much the first thing I did when I moved to Sweden was switch out my driving license for a Swedish one. Valid in the UK, valid all over Europe, nothing else required.
And yes, I was also worried about leaving and having residency time reset, but I have since received right to remain and have a citizenship application on, although that is still in the "received" status even after a year.
So you have Vauxhall, and a handful of sports cars that might need batteries in the UK. Im pretty sure the whole business plan must have hinged on exporting to the EU.
Vauxhall is now owned by an EU-based company and no doubt they'll be sorting out their own batteries.
The issue with exporting into the EU is that there's now a big old barrier and I would imagine that we'll end up in the daft situation where any vehicle we export will end up with an EU-sourced battery so the only customers for a UK-based battery factory are for UK sales and non-EU exports (and probably not the likes of US, Japan etc, as they'll want batteries sourced at 'home').
ACC will be supplying the cells for Vauxhall, including the van variants built in the UK.
I’m looking forward to finding out what other Brexit ‘gotchas’ await in the future.
I expect that the law of unforeseen circumstances is going to come into effect in one almighty way when the haunted pencils 'Retained EU Laws' Bill passes
Lets be honest, they either didn't see or didn't care about the obvious problems with the Northern Ireland Protocol, so god only knows what this gang of wreckers has failed to see coming, or ignored, when they jettison up to 4,000 laws overnight
What could possibly go wrong?
I can see the Brextrix.
Unfortunately, they were successful both in general and specifically with regards to me.
Sorry to hear that bikesandboots. I've always assumed you are the Scarborough hotelier of the same name. If so I'd just like to say that the vid on your website is brilliant and I hope you are still in business if ever I'm in that part of the world.
Pretty much the first thing I did when I moved to Sweden was switch out my driving license for a Swedish one. Valid in the UK, valid all over Europe, nothing else required.
They wouldn’t exchange mine without residency 🙁
Mrs DoD(lady of leisure/freeloader- no income,no pension) gained residency and a Spanish driving licence whereas the wage earning Mr DoD got his residency turned down as allegedly his bank account didn’t show proof of living in Spain although they only wanted proof of 10k which was in place)
Apostiled proof of marriage was then requested although originally that wasn’t a thing and they already had a zillion documents ,payslips work contract officially translated, fired in just awaiting the call to get my fingerprints taken which should have been anytime in the last six months but still patiently waiting.
It’s all been handled by Spanish lawyers and I reckon it’s been trundling on for 18 months.
I’m not the only one in this situation,although I’m lucky as I’ve a chauffeur wife with residency other people haven’t and have been struggling.
I can see the Brextrix
Ah you must be the Girls mop then 🙂
They wouldn’t exchange mine without residency 🙁
Might be a bit of a faff but couldn't any UK citizen obtain an Irish licence pretty quickly?
couldn’t any UK citizen obtain an Irish licence
Have you been listing to Andrew Bridgen?!?
couldn’t any UK citizen obtain an Irish licence
Have you been listing to Andrew Bridgen?!?
Or Guy Martin 🙂
Sorry Guy if your reading that - a cheap joke 🙁
Or Guy Martin 🙂
At least Guy's spent a lot of time in Ireland, and if he'd the accent he could easily pass for an Irish Road Racer (hippy assassin).
Back to the question of Starmer and his attitude to rejoining - sorry.
I listened to The News Agents podcast interview with him in Davos ( https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrexKd/) in which he said rejoining the EU, even the SM, was politically impossible and would be an unaffordable distraction from fixing the problems we have. He also pointed out that although Brexit wasn't helping, our problems started before Brexit. I've been thinking about this, and as an ardent remainer I've rather unwillingly come to the conclusion that he is right. How many years would it take to negotiate a re-entry? Four? Five? You'd probably have to have 2 more referendums, one on whether or not to rejoin, and then another on whether to rejoin on the specific terms negotiated. It would totally dominate the government and the civil service at a time when they've already been distracted by 8 years of Brexit. The EU might not want to make the huge investment in time and money to support their end of the process. Overall, it would be catastrophic. Which is why his approach of pursuing 'better' trading arrangements is the right one, as long as it's accompanied by real progress on the other areas he identifies as critical - skills, health, housing.
TL;DR it doesn't matter whether Starmer campaigns on a rejoin ticket or not, as rejoining is not politically deliverable.
I do not accept that at all
All starmer is doing is running scared of the tory press and pandering to those red wall racists. By doing this he is ruling out the biggest thing to help our position. He is lying and its obvious " no economic case to rejoin" is a lie
Why would there need to be 2 referendums? Why would it take 8 years plus?
Yes the EU might say " awa' an' shite" and I would if I were them.
Edit - there are no significantly better trading arrangements to be had yes he could do some minor tinkering but nothing that will undo the damage so thats another lie
He will be attempting to make those things better with both hands tied behind his back so no real progress can be made and he is allowing the tories to get away without the blame because he is now supporting brexit
I listened to The News Agents podcast interview with him in Davos ( https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrexKd/)
Lots of present tense in his answers. I think he portrays the current situation with Europe accurately. Where closer cooperation takes us, and where it ends, is an open question still. The possibilities could look completely different in ten years time, after a successful period of thawing of relationships and the honouring of new closer agreements and working practices.
I’d just listened to that interview, and was going to post it in the Starmer thread, because it touched a lot of issues (including kicking any answers about how the GRA should be modernised into the long grass, presumably to take the heat out of it rather than have an election made the conflicts over it worse, or just cowardice about losing support over it).
So another ten years of falling behind and losing jobs and taxes to the EU. What little ambition he shows.
This is the price of Brexit. It is a long slow period of repair ahead, no matter what. It’s just reality. There, is, no, quick, fix.
kicking any answers about how the GRA should be modernised
Oh dear. the GRA is a scotland only bill. Its nothing to do with him
There is Kelvin. You just don't want to see it. Starmer has blown this completely. He should have spent the last few years hammering the tories for the damage and loudly saying we will go back ASAP. Even doing that would have reduced the damage.
Stop believing his lies
the GRA is a scotland only bill.
There’s a GRA covering where I live as well. Listen to the interview.
Appreciate you’re not interested in the nuances of where the UK goes in the next five years or so as regards Brexit, so you might as well fast forward past that bit of the interview.
Apologies - Gender Recognition act in England . Gender reform act in Scotland
I have no interest in listening to Starmer lying.
This is the price of Brexit. It is a long slow period of repair ahead, no matter what. It’s just reality. There, is, no, quick, fix.
The end of the Union is another "price of Brexit".
This is the price of Brexit. It is a long slow period of repair ahead, no matter what. It’s just reality. There, is, no, quick, fix.
I'm in this camp too. I'd love TJs immediate jump back in, but it's politically and practically not deliverable for at least two terms. It's just a harsh, sad fact of how badly Brexit has ruined everything.
Let's minimise any further Brexit damage, feel out how to get closer ties and move towards it, and get rid of tbe Tories.
I do not accept that at all
Yeah, well, I didn't expect you to.
Let's imagine that Starmer does what you want and campaigns on "Brexit is shit and I'm going to reverse it". Let's imagine that that is, as you expect, really popular and he wins a big majority. Now TJ, please set out for us what then happens over the 5 years of his elected term. What does his government actually do, given that mandate?
There is no minimising ( other than very marginal ways that will make no real difference) the damage of brexit without joining the CU and SM at the very least. Instead the damage will continue to compound and the UK will get poorer and poorer
Thats one of Starmers lies. don't fall for it
What does his government actually do, given that mandate?
Rejoin. Its not rocket science! Straight into negotiations with the EU cap in hand. Accept everything ( conditions are clear), referendum, rejoin.
But he has blown it. he cannot politically change course now. the reason it is politically impossible is because he made it so by becoming a brexiteer.
There is no minimising ( other than very marginal ways that will make no real difference) the damage of brexit without joining the CU and SM
I'm not sure that is true. If you agreed on total alignment of standards, I bet you could get pretty close to the benefits of the CU and SM without actually signing up.
Anyway, are you going to answer my question?
Edit: Ok, you sort of did. How long is that going to take? What if it takes more than 5 years (not that unlikely)? How patient will the electorate be? What if the Tories get back in? We aren't arguing over the principles here, we would all like to see us rejoin. It's the practical politics of it we're disagreeing about, and I think you are being hopelessly unrealistic, quite apart from making it more likely that Starmer will never even get elected. Labour cannot afford the kind of schism that you are promoting. If you and others like you let the Tories in again you will have some serious shit on your conscience.
I bet you could get pretty close to the benefits of the CU and SM without actually signing up.
NOpe not in the slightest The 4 freedoms are inseparable. the hard border would have to remain, freedom of movement cannot be had, etc etc
Question answered above.
I’d love TJs immediate jump back in
So would I. But the whole reason why I campaigned for a “measure twice cut once” second referendum was because there is no quick “undo” button.
It's also a case of regulatory allignment. The Swiss check their own laws for EU compliance as and when EU laws are passed, and sometimes let the EU law overide their own law. If he wants to keep the EU door open for a Swiss type deal he needs to be very vocally opposing the burning up of EU legislation and explaining why. I Googled "Starmer retained EU legislation" and found no quotes concerning those three words in the first page of results.
Rejoin. Its not rocket science!
It bloody is. Have you seen how hard it's been to come out of it? Now add a section of the EU that will make it hard for us, just because.
And I'm not convinced that going cap in hand and accepting all the terms is a vote winner. There were good reasons we didn't adopt the Euro, aiming for which is a condition of entry
