What they want is more excuses and a different deal... Then another different deal... And another gives them that.
If only someone could have warned them that the Northern Ireland Protocol was unworkable. Here's a hint for their future endeavours - there is no workable arrangement which gives them what they want.
Why should any of our former European partners be willing to sit down for good faith negotiations with this collection of bellends and halfwits? There is no deal they are not prepared to renege on.
I think the one thing that we can be absolutely certain of is that the EU won't be diluting the rules of the Customs Union and the Single Market for the benefit of the petulant toddler who've just thrown their dummy out of the pram.
We all knew these things were sacrosanct 5 years ago, and they're even more so now, no matter what bullshit they try and spin.
This state of affairs was entirely predictable, in fact it was inevitable, from the moment that Theresa May caved in to the headbangers and announced that the UK would be leaving the Customs Union and the Single Market. There was no workable solution that would preserve the Good Friday Agreement from that point on. Not even David Davis and his 'erm.... technology'
And Lord Frost can stamp his feet as much as he likes and threaten whatever he wants, The EU won't be budging.
It seems that that reality has already registered with businesses that inhabit the real world as opposed to the deluded fantasy island of Boris and co. They know this whole thing is a total cluster-**** that is only going to get worse
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1417765074165542916?s=20
What power does Frost think he has here? thats the bit that gets me. He demands this that and the other but has simply no power to do anything. If the EU tell him to do one - as they have already what can he do?
the EU won’t be diluting the rules of the Customs Union and the Single Market for the benefit of the petulant toddler
See, this is the thing that's always confused me about the Brexiteers and their relationship with any negotiating partner (be that the Republic, or the EU) . They absolutely want their own ideologically pure "State of Nationhood" that (in their eyes) is totally sacrosanct and cannot be altered in any negotiations, and yet fully expect others to be pragmatic and flexible* in their dealings with Brexit Britain. They must understand that that's unworkable...
* even more confusing as it's the Tories, the gold standard of Pragmatic Flexibility (literally the only thing they have a reputation for)
If only someone could have warned them that the Northern Ireland Protocol was unworkable.
It's not 'unworkable', it's that one of the parties doesn't want to work at implementing it (for 'exports' from GB to NI).
He demands this that and the other but has simply no power to do anything. If the EU tell him to do one – as they have already what can he do?
He's just stood up in parliament and said that the UK will trigger article 16, break international law and unilaterally make changes to the NI protocol. To which the EU's reply will be: "off you pop then sunshine. Let us know how you get on"
Because the moment they do that, the EU will, perfectly legitimately (its a legally binding international treaty, after all) slap all UK produce with huge tariffs. Every other nation will look at the Uk reneging on a trade deal and see that we can't be trusted so will have no interest in doing another one with us
I'm sure that as the Brexiteers love a good war, to wave the flags and rally the troops and all that shit, that they'll be more than happy to have a full on trade war with the EU, with the Daily Mail cheering them on.
It will cause untold damage to the UK economy, but since when did this lot ever give a shit about that?
it’s that one of the parties doesn’t want to work at implementing it
Or has only recently discovered that the measures it contains are politically toxic to Unionists, who clearly didn't read the ****ing thing either before helping the Tories drive it through.
I'm sure it could have worked if it didn't involve disrupting one of the most delicate political balances in the world.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1417829779957592065
I say, I say, I say...
I got a Brexit calculator today. It doesn't add up, but it is excellent at taking away and division.
Because the moment they do that, the EU will, perfectly legitimately (its a legally binding international treaty, after all) slap all UK produce with huge tariffs. Every other nation will look at the Uk reneging on a trade deal and see that we can’t be trusted so will have no interest in doing another one with us
I always wondered why they even signed up to it, I personally would have gone with:
1. No border between NI and UK as they're the same country
2. No border between NI and RoI as that's the GFA
3. No border between RoI and EU? Well that's the EU's problem to figure out, come back when you've sorted it boys.
Right from the outset - and I was pro-remain as it was clearly unworkable, why we've gone and made internal EU rules one of our problems now we're no longer a member is a bit beyond me. Our leaders really are that stupid it would seem.
What power does Frost think he has here?
The usual two.
1. Bulletproof confidence in his own persuasive powers and charm.
2. The knowledge that a large proportion of 'his' domestic audience are xenophobic halfwits.
In the case of 1 above he is both mistaken and it would be irrelevant to the EU even if it were true.
In the case of 2 he is spot on, but the EU are well aware of it and don't give a shit (or have to any more).
🇬🇧🍆💦🇬🇧
2. No border between NI and RoI as that’s the GFA
3. No border between RoI and EU? Well that’s the EU’s problem to figure out, come back when you’ve sorted it boys.Well that’s the EU’s problem to figure out, come back when you’ve sorted it boys.
And while they were at it, they should have demanded a lifetime supply of Audis and croissants for every UK citizen.
The ROI and EU would have no option but to introduce a hard border to NI in those circumstances. Sovereignty isn't a one-way street - you want control over your borders, so does the EU and the ROI.
None of this was the 'EU's problem to sort out'. They weren't the ones wanting to piss off into some Little Englander fantasy of sunlit uplands and freeports.
No border between RoI and EU? Well that’s the EU’s problem to figure out, come back when you’ve sorted it boys.
ONly its not because of the GFA. hence attempting to fudge. the only workable position once we are out of the CU is a border in the irish sea
I always wondered why they even signed up to it
Because the fly-tipped sofa had proclaimed he would 'Get Brexit Done!' by a specific date, so the EU knew they could offer him any old shite and he'd have no option but to sign it without even skim-reading it.
But like every other agreement he's ever entered into, he had absolutely no intention of honouring it, so sign away, as it doesn't really matter anyway
None of this was the ‘EU’s problem to sort out’. They weren’t the ones wanting to piss off into some Little Englander fantasy of sunlit uplands and freeports.
Needs reiterating.
Because the fly-tipped sofa had proclaimed he would ‘Get Brexit Done!’ by a specific date, so the EU knew they could offer him any old shite and he’d have no option but to sign it without even skim-reading it.
But like every other agreement he’s ever entered into, he had absolutely no intention of honouring it, so sign away, as it doesn’t really matter anyway
Also needs reiterating.
This, from Johnson's point of view, was only ever an exercise in furthering his own ambitions and flattering his colossal ego. He was never a true Brexit Believer. The whole thing is one great big stage production to him.
Well that’s the EU’s problem to figure out, come back when you’ve sorted it boys.
With no effort on our part as regards the GFA, we would have had a no deal Brexit, with the EU telling us it's for the UK to figure out how to get on without any trade deal with any of our neighbours.
Yup, import from China/wherever run through NI border into Europe.
If we're going to get ourselves ****ed, we may as well go back to good honest smuggling/piracy.
I always wondered why they even signed up to it, I personally would have gone with:
1. No border between NI and UK as they’re the same country
2. No border between NI and RoI as that’s the GFA
3. No border between RoI and EU? Well that’s the EU’s problem to figure out, come back when you’ve sorted it boys.Right from the outset – and I was pro-remain as it was clearly unworkable, why we’ve gone and made internal EU rules one of our problems now we’re no longer a member is a bit beyond me. Our leaders really are that stupid it would seem.
Remind us of your expertise in international trade please?
You're proposing that the UK goes full on 'rogue', and the usual consequences of 'rogue' are other nations/trading-blocs implement tariffs on your imports - usually the imports they can get elsewhere so as not to disadvantage their consumers. Of course the UK can do the same. Which costs us more.
Oh, and we'll still need to follow their standards to sell there, and if we adopt our own, they'll need to adopt ours to sell here - yet more cost.
All in all, yet more Brexshit.
More honest then getting elected claiming you have an oven ready deal that you have no intention of sticking to. Mind you, I would't put it past Johnson to try exactly the same trick at the next election, just as some kind of ego trip... see just how easily a whole country will continue to buy lies if you have the magic "charm" and keep doubling down on them while blaming the "enemy" for all our ills.
see just how easily a whole country will continue to buy lies if you have the magic “charm” and keep doubling down on them while blaming the “enemy” for all our ills
Which is a polite way of saying 'gullible thickos'.
Heres the statement just released by the EU
The Protocol on Ireland / Northern Ireland is the joint solution that the EU found with Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Lord David Frost – and was ratified by the UK Parliament – to address the unique challenges that Brexit, and the type of Brexit chosen by the British government, poses for the island of Ireland. Its aim is to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement in all its parts, maintain peace and stability in Northern Ireland, avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, while preserving the integrity of the EU Single Market. In order for these objectives to be achieved, the Protocol must be implemented. Respecting international legal obligations is of paramount importance.
The EU has sought flexible, practical solutions to overcome the difficulties citizens in Northern Ireland are experiencing regarding the implementation of the Protocol. For example, on 30 June, the Commission tabled a package of measures to address certain pressing issues, including changing our own rules to ensure the long-term supply of medicines from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. These solutions were brought about with the core purpose of benefitting the people in Northern Ireland.
We take note of the statement made by Lord Frost today.
We will continue to engage with the UK, also on the suggestions made today. We are ready to continue to seek creative solutions, within the framework of the Protocol, in the interest of all communities in Northern Ireland. However, we will not agree to a renegotiation of the Protocol.
Joint action in the joint bodies established by the Withdrawal Agreement will be of paramount importance over the coming months. We must prioritise stability and predictability in Northern Ireland.
I look forward to speaking to Lord Frost soon.
So in other words... **** off!
So in other words… **** off!
And quite right too.
Can you imagine what the gammons would be doing if the boot was on the other foot. Smashing their silly little PowaKaddies with their silly little golf racquets in their silly little golf trousers and ranting about winning a war or something.
Perfide Albion, n'est ce pas?
And quite right too.
+1
Just an elaborate game of chess. They knew that would be the response from the EU, that was a statement for the telegraph readers.
‘Issues that have arisen’ / ‘solutions to the problems that have occurred’
Deflect from the fact it was the governments own deal, this way we are being plucky standing up for Northern Ireland’s rights for sausages from the mainland ( i believe Ireland and the EU may have a source of their own sausages that could quite easily be taken up but there you go).
It’s all just a narrative for when the government dont do anything about checks in the Irish Sea, and the evil eu put in checks and correctly punitive tariffs, and suddenly with empty shelves the masses get to accept hormone fed monster meat and shitty food from far off places.
The cost of the food will be compatible to what we pay now ( albeit slightly higher) because mass produced cheap shit +higher transport costs will null each other out.
Ok you have robbed a population of freedom of movement and choice and quality, but we have gained independence from their human rights laws, tax laws, working directives and all those pesky things that stopped those at the top getting even more from those at the bottom.
Unfortunately it’s all short term gains, say 5-10 years ahead. Look at the record levels of quantative easing ( Bank of England ‘making up money’ )to buy/back bonds. But that will all be someone else’s problem in the future ( ie our children) will be left with the debt that needs paying off.
Unfortunately it’s all short term gains, say 5-10 years ahead.
And only for those already in a position to benefit.
For the real movers and shakers behind Brexit this was about a one off smash and grab on the postwar consensus.
It looks like there is no intent to make the NIP work from the UK government, anyone shocked? So we close in on October when all the checks are meant to be implemented in Dover, etc. anyone believe that they will happen or that UK Gov will extend claiming issues implementing?
Just an elaborate game of chess.
Thing is the EU are playing chess with grandmaster. Johnson and Frost only know how to play checkers and neither of them are any good at it
anyone believe that they will happen or that UK Gov will extend claiming issues implementing?
It was obvious they never had any intention of implementing the NIP. Have they recruited any of the thousands of customs officers required? Nope. Have they built any of the infrastructure required? Nope. Put the IT systems in place for the new checks? Nope.
They've done absolutely nothing.
Done nothing? No. That's not true. They've put on a pair of la-la headphones, and shouted "it's all perfectly ok". Or, occasionally, they've instead shouted "it's their fault".
Everything else you said is accurate as far as I can tell.
The Guardian editorial summed up things quite succinctly today
'The EU is a rules-based organisation. It wants, quite reasonably, to apply the protocol Mr Johnson negotiated, not the one he wished he'd negotiated'
I could sum it up more punchily.
"Boris Johnson is a lying ****".
It's the same thing they've done before- get to the end of the grace period, waste all that time, then loudly demand a grace period. As long as they can convince voters that actually they're just reasonably asking for a little more time to get the job done, rather than asking for more time on top of the more time they've already completely wasted, then they can still just say "EU unreasonable, rules bad" and people will go "good old boris".
If the goal is to run a country, obviously it's not how you do it. Not a question of good or bad, success or fail, it's just not bothering.
tjagain
Full MemberThing is the EU are playing chess with grandmaster. Johnson and Frost only know how to play checkers and neither of them are any good at it
Like playing chess with a pigeon- it knocks over its own pieces, shits on the board and then walks around like it's won
Lolz @ northwind
Soooo...Mr Govey-Gove negotiated the whole "Border in the sea" thing and signed off the text used in the protocol, that Johnson now wants to be scrapped and said at the time that it was [checks notes] "The best of both worlds" So as Government policy now seems to be rubbishing the deal, I expect Gove will have no choice but to resign.
That's how it works, isn't it?
Anyone seen or heard from Gove?
Anyone seen or heard from Gove?
His ( soon to be) ex wife has given him a real kicking and locked him in a cellar. One word out of him and she is going to tell all. a woman scorned
Anyone seen or heard from Gove?
No. Nice isn't it?
Apart from the fact that he is laying low to avoid scrutiny over his trouser issues and is likely spending the time working out how to be even more of a scheming shit in the future.
With the NI border, something has got to give eventually. The only solution I can see that works is to have facilities for custom checks, away from the border, and automatic vehicle registration at the border. With every commercial vehicle that goes through the border validated against the checked vehicle details. These customs facilities will cost a lot of money, add time and costs to companies exporting South of the boarder will be a target for terrorists.
It’ll never happen.
The moment that any border infrastructure is put in place it’ll have a big lump of Semtex underneath it. The moment they put any customs officials anywhere near the place, the snipers will be back out of retirement
The government knows this. The EU knows this. That’s why the UK’s position has always been so weak. That’s why we have the NIP, and that’s why the EU won’t be budging
Ultimately there is no option but for the UK to accept full regulatory alignment with EU standards
Thus rendering the whole exercise utterly pointless
They’ve in denial and are adamant they won’t do this, but sooner or later they’ll have too. There’s simply no other workable option.
I’m sure Boris is busy working out how he can sell that to the hard-of-thinking as a victory.
Seeing as he sold the present car crash as one, that shouldn’t be too difficult.
Just wrap it in a flag
Taking back control eh? 🙄
Your reminder that Johnson only needs to keep kicking the border issue down the street until he's no longer PM. It will not be "settled" while he is in government.
But what is the mechanism for regulatory alignment? Court of Justice of the EU, payments to the EU and restrictions on trade deals? Or does Boris just spit on his hand and promise to be a good boy and read EU regulations at bed time?
I’m sure it’ll end up as some Norway style fudge
Their ‘Australian Style’ deal was no deal at all and it’s all duly unraveling now
The EU aren’t going to let him kick the can down the road for much longer.
It’s reality time, and we all know that Boris isn’t very good with reality
Anyone seen or heard from Gove?
I imagine he’s been ordered to lie pretty low after the super injunction he’s taken out on reports that he’s been playing hide the sausage
I'll tell you what will happen - Nuttin'.
In theory; Britain has to legally enforce the the protocol, or trigger Article 16, but in reality if it doesn't comply with either, what will the EU do exactly? Britain will happily live with the status quo, effectively unenforced by EU institutions and without any additional checks in the future.
The longer that goes on, the harder it becomes for the EU to challenge it. As time goes on, the failure to implement checks becomes an established fact on the ground. What will the EU do? build it's own border in the Irish sea? Tinker with the land border between NI and the Republic? Or just fine the UK indefinitely and slap tariffs on it's own goods risking damage to itself?
I reckon that's Boris' thinking anyway....
The trade in goods side of the NI protocol is mainly down to businesses playing the game rather than the UK government. The EU doesn't need to have UK goverment cooperation to enforce it. It can enforce by policing the businesses involved in cross-Irish Sea trade. It doesn't need customs posts to do that, just accounts from EU businesses. Any no compliance from a significant cross-border player and they'll get hauled up by the tax and customs people in any EU state goods reach unofficially. Thay's why the likes of Sainsbury are being seen to play the game, they can't afford to upset the EU given how dependant they are on it for goods.
