Another poll. Things are moving from "Brexit is bad" to "I'd vote to rejoin" quite quickly. I wonder where we'll be in 5 years time...?
I wonder where we’ll be in 5 years time…?
Hopefully with the heads of Tice, Banks, Farage etc...etc on spikes outside parliament
Is a sample size of 1519 representative?
I wouldn't consider extrapolating anything from that.
EDIT: sample size would need to 2400 for it to be representative, using 95% confidence interval, +/-2% margin of error and accepted sampling techniques.
Thing is, that polling looks like most of the polling before the 2016 referendum despite many of the old * who voted Brexit being dead. There seems to be a new generation of old * to replace them.
Indeed, but Brexit happened due to voter apathy, especially in the younger age groups in whom the importance of voting has not really been instilled. If it were re-ran today, I'd wager that the pro Europe campaign would specifically target those groups.
Interestingly - there are now more over 65s in the UK than there are under 12s, which means that 65+ represents a pretty sizable voter percentage.
See Dyson moaned to Hunt about post brexit brain drain and corporation tax, ****s both of them.
Whinge on the beeb about passport validity. Multiple cases of moaners all saying the same thing - it's someone else's responsibility.
I thought it was particularly interesting because of their shared demographics...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68677938
That whinge about passports, each of them needs a buff around the ears.
Bad Europe not letting people travel on our of date passports. You know like before brexit when you couldn't travel abroad on our of date passports.
Dicks.
You know like before brexit when you couldn’t travel abroad on our of date passports.
I’ve no particular time for the people caught out, check your documents yourself etc, but the passports weren’t out of date, they were in date but more than ten years old and they could travel on them before brexit so this is a proper brexit bonus
‘Losing’ a load of money on a holiday because you didn’t check if your passport was still valid is just stupidity tax
Whenever the BBC prints an interview with one of these people, they should have to flag whether they voted for Brexit or not.
My suspicion is that all the people interviewed wanted to “take are country back”.
For years I din't need a passport, my ID card was good enough to visit the UK. Even fewer French people have a Passport than Americans.
Realising that the need for a passport was one of the things that had killed the séjour linguistique business the UK government has allowed French kids in on a French ID card since 12/23. Still no trips from Madame Edukator's school though because some of the kids in the school aren't European and need a passport and an expensive Visa not just an ID card. The school won't excluded the children of immigrants because that would be discrimination so there are still no trips. Well there are trips, Madame Edukator is off on a jolly to Hambourg with her group while others head for Spain.
Ed, I think you've brought that up before. Utterly predictable and a loss all round.
‘Losing’ a load of money on a holiday because you didn’t check if your passport was still valid is just stupidity tax
they did check their passport - their passport was in date. It was more than ten years old but hasn’t expired.
I have no sympathy for the passport moaners.
People who voted for tighter border controls are shocked at the implementation of tighter border controls!
It's an outrage! Lol!
UK government has allowed French kids in on a French ID card since 12/23
I didn’t know that.
As you say, school trips are now elsewhere and won’t be coming back. Connections lost. Ireland now a popular destination with schools I know of in Northern France. Learning English is still valued. Taking groups of kids to England less so.
Whinge on the beeb about passport validity. Multiple cases of moaners all saying the same thing – it’s someone else’s responsibility.
I thought it was particularly interesting because of their shared demographics…
Can folk under 55 not afford foreign holidays these days, or do they lack the sense of entitlement that leads to the “I’m British and therefore my passport is valid” attitude?
Dunno.
I do know that if want to swim in safe water, off safe beaches, we need to get out of England and into the EU.
💩🏊♂️
they did check their passport – their passport was in date. It was more than ten years old but hasn’t expired.
In date but not valid as is made absolutely clear on the GOV travel website which is the same sire that tells you how many months you need left on it as well.
Scotland isn't in the EU.
Yeah, I know, but I’m not hard enough.
Kamakazie
Full MemberIn date but not valid as is made absolutely clear on the GOV travel website which is the same sire that tells you how many months you need left on it as well.
Which is something you probably don't feel any need to check, when your passport is still within date. That's kind of what "in date" means. I mean, I'd check it, because I am a sack of anxiety, but it's completely understandable that people don't, and for sure I don't think it's been publicised widely enough.
What's not understandable is blaming anyone or anything except brexit and the government and yourself. It's not something "the airline should be able to sort out" or something the french are doing to us out of dastardly frenchness. It's somethign we did.
I'm as remoaner as they came, but I think you're being unfair. That's a very technical and obscure rule - that other states will not accept passports issued for a duration longer than 10 years even when those passports are within their stated validity period. This is different from the "you need 6 or 9 or 13 months validity when you travel out" rule.
It's not like UKPA was checking people's views on EU membership before giving them passports of 10+ years duration. You're being smug but I bet you wouldn't have checked.
I know i would have because i have done so
It’s not like UKPA was checking people’s views on EU membership before giving them passports of 10+ years duration. You’re being smug but I bet you wouldn’t have checked.
I checked last month when we finalised our European holiday that all three of us have passports in date - and it's on the Gov web page about the 10years/3months thing.
I know i would have because i have done so
Me too. I renewed my passport as a result to a ‘proper’ blue one, printed in France by a Polish company on Swedish paper, or whatever it now is
The rules are clear. English Exceptionalism isn’t actually a thing outside Engerland.
As the BBC didn’t really need to highlight, but did, we all know exactly the kind of people who didn’t read the small print and we could probably hazard a pretty accurate guess at how they voted in the referendum
Pretty sure Everytime I've flown to Barcelona the airline has said I need X Months left on my passport. I've not been since before covid.
Ah but it’s to do with the start date, eu recognise the passport validity 10 years from the start date and the U.K. used to allow you to renew earlier and add the extra time to the new passport so it’s expiry date is longer than the ten years which is catching people out.
I get why people are getting caught out.
I’m also surprised that it’s become news which makes me think no-one really thought about it until a few people have been caught out.
TBH honest I’d not be thinking about checking my start date, but I’ve always ran mine out before getting a new one as I was always a one holiday a year as opposed to frequent flyer.
Didn't this come up last year? It's just a lazy rehash of the same story because people are taking holidays.
Get your tasty goodies before the end of the month. Proper independent delicatessens are about to have yet more taxes dropped on them:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/common-user-charge-rates-and-eligibility
kelvinFull Member
Get your tasty goodies before the end of the month. Proper independent delicatessens are about to have yet more taxes dropped on them:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/common-user-charge-rates-and-eligibility/blockquote >
It's almost as if none of this was thought through....this Beeb article summarises it somewhat.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852
Sigh.
From the Beeb:
The government said the fees would pay for "world-class border facilities".
That is the most counterintuitive, pointless justification yet for the sh*t fest that is Brexit regulations and increased costs.
Both things Brexit was ment to reduce!
Was about to post that meaningless quote- but Poops beat me to it.
Most times an individual or organisation (inc government) refers to world class or world leading you can be 100% certain that what they're referring to is not and never reach that status.
So, the government are saying the current facilities are not world leading; how should they be described? Adequate, average, piss poor?
Saying something is world class of world leading does not make it so.
Didn't the gov incur a hefty cost in developing a site at Ramsgate (?) which will now not be used?
They're a bunch of rank amateurs - at best; in truth, that would be high praise for them.
I posted this on the Brexit Benefits thread - so world class they’re thinking of demolishing it:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/portsmouths-brexit-border-post-could-170600847.html?
I think I will be able to cope with a 0.2% price increase.
Lucky you.
This will ruin many a small UK food importing company. The international owned supermarkets will do just fine though of course.
Yet more power to the arm of globalisation and hinderance for UK SME businesses. Like every step of the Brexit process.
I seem to be hearing a lot of you won’t be coming to Spain as we’ve put a rule that you need x Britannic Pounds and you are so outraged that you will be going elsewhere 🙂
Sounds awfully familiar to this https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/07/29/post-brexit-rule-requires-brits-visiting-spain-to-have-100-spending-money-per-day#:~:text=To%20enter%20Spain%2C%20British%20tourists,each%20day%20of%20their%20trip.
I’m not really getting why these things are getting recycled other than your news sites are now just purely click-baiting all the time for advertising.
I actually have a benefit!...... my knew job
I work at the biggest science institute in the country. Importing/ exporting animals, eggs, sperm, human tissue and radioactive stuff thrown in is such a mess that they've created a new team to deal with it all, and there's not many people who've worked with all that, so I got it by default.
Now we're back in Horizon, sorting out clinical trials is a shitshow weve got to address too (its mostly blood for that)
Weve had so many cases of things being stuck in customs because the shipper/ receiver/ courier has the wrong commodity code, its costing us a fortune. Vet inspections also a nightmare, we just had to pay £6k! to ship some chunks of frozen marmot that've been stuck in a freezer for a couple of years after the rest of the lab moved to Berlin.
Anyway Ive got a salary bump and more wfh
vive la Brexit red tape!
I seem to be hearing a lot of you won’t be coming to Spain as we’ve put a rule that you need x Britannic Pounds and you are so outraged that you will be going elsewhere
You always needed to be self sufficient since brexit...the biggest change recently for spain it they are getting rid of the 'golden visa' which basically gave you a free pass if you invest 500,000+ euros in spain, in property or business, so if you were to buy a £285k home in spain (avarage UK house price), you would already be well over half way there.
Scuppered a lot of retirement plans, I imagine.
The Group Leader that brought it in actually went hunting in the Tyrol with some hunters and some of his students, they bagged some marmot, drank a lot of brandy and then brought it back pre-Brexit, but to take it with them after Brexit when he moved his lab has been a nightmare of paperwork & cost
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdfExtended/S0960-9822(19)30418-X
That link has definitely expanded my knowledge of the alpine marmot!
Yet more proof that every day truly is a school day on STW!
bikesandboots
Full Member
I’d like to see the total number of jobs created in the UK that are pure (or mostly) Brexit overheads.
We all remember those halcyon days when apart from all the other benefits Brexit would bring us it would reduce red tape. 😁
You always needed to be self sufficient since brexit…the biggest change recently for spain it they are getting rid of the ‘golden visa’ which basically gave you a free pass if you invest 500,000+ euros in spain, in property or business, so if you were to buy a £285k home in spain (avarage UK house price), you would already be well over half way there.
Scuppered a lot of retirement plans, I imagine.
Ah I was on about the holiday makers needing to show x Euros a day.
Interestingly there was a way that you could do it for way less 500k.
I don’t think it will actually cause a problem for retirement ,if you have enough pension,savings you should still be able to get a NLV , the difference is the amount of time you can be out of Spain and people get twitchy over being a tax resident.
There's still oldies retiring here,it just the entry price is a lot higher than before.
(TBH why you would want to retire here, it’s grim,I’ve had to apply my sunscreen this lunchtime as it’s 30c 🙂 )
In a move that will require Daily Mail and Express traders to stock up on beta blockers! 😂
Tomorrow's headline: They are Stealing Your Brexit!
EU proposes UK free movement deal for young people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68848046
I was just about to post that. Hopefully the thin end of the wedge to opening things up again.
^^ I think it's how Brexit will gradually be undone, a bit at a time.
Labour distancing themselves from it at the moment but they have to or they are handing the Tories/reform UK an easy attack line.
Get into power, then start the negotiations on things like this. 👍
That's not to say I expect us to return to the EU for a decade or two but we can start prepping the ground.
Great, I'll send my kids over there, they can work for 5 years then they'll be eligible to bring us over on a family visa.
"^^ I think it’s how Brexit will gradually be undone, a bit at a time.
Labour distancing themselves from it at the moment but they have to or they are handing the Tories/reform UK an easy attack line.
Get into power, then start the negotiations on things like this. 👍
That’s not to say I expect us to return to the EU for a decade or two but we can start prepping the ground."
Word for word what I'm thinking. 👍
I seem to remember that for economic reasons free movement had to be inseparable from free trade. Not just political reasons.
Applying that to this proposal, the country has lost a lot of customers in the EU for goods and services, but to some extent compensated by EU citizens leaving. So there are now fewer (skilled) jobs but also fewer people wanting them. Would the new proposal thus disadvantage British because there'd be no more work yet more competition for it?
Martin Kettle in the Guardian put it excellently.
In essence, Starmer can probably wait for the state of the economy to do his arguing for him.
The more the Tories salt the earth for Labour, the easier the economic argument could become. The Tories are so screwed that they are now in a position where their natural vindictiveness could speed up the kind of result they don't want.
The UK will be back in some kind of European bloc within 20 years come what may. The sooner the better, IMO.
tjagain
Full Member
Oh ffs“New post-Brexit border checks ‘set to zero’ to avoid what Defra calls risk of serious disruption”
From the grauniad. Thats tbe 6th time the checks have been delayed.. its almost like this is a stupid idea🙄😜
What a friggin surprise... Let the next government sort it out. Just like everything else.
It'll have the farmers frothing though!
We can no longer take our van into Europe for smaller shows as we'd need an operators license and to get that we'd need to employ or need to contract a qualified transport manager. So if the show doesn't warrant a truck then it's uneconomic for us to do it. Fortunately most of what we do requires an 18t or larger truck so the loss to us isn't too bad. Still it's money going to "foreigners" instead of us fine British folk.
Oh and don't forget the cost and hassle of getting a ATA carnet for every job 🙄
"Bernard":
Last week the EU offered the UK a youth mobility scheme to allow people between the ages of 18 and 30 to study and live in the EU, effectively freedom of movement that of course the EU would expect to be reciprocated. However it’s been rejected by Rishi Sunak and, disappointingly, by Labour too. How can you do that to young people? They should enjoy the same freedom these politicians had when they were the same age.
I expect if Labour didn't solidly reject this, the Tories would use it as a stick to beat them over the head with. Undermining brexit etc.
I'd also guess that most people moving around in the EU days would have been in that age bracket, so the proposal could restore a substantial share of the movement that was happening.
Disappointing of course for people who wanted to move, but for those who don't I expect they appreciate reduced competition for jobs and housing, like if you'd just graduated. There's no associated removal of trade barriers that's going to bring all that business we lost back at the same time.
You’ve described the sentiment at play perfectly… but it’s all nonsense factually of course.
Allowing people to study and work abroad builds bridges… that facilitate future business.
Cutting young people off from opportunities, to placate older voters scared of the world, causes untold damage to our economy and culture.
I read you're politely saying that what I said is nonsense 😉
Cutting people from abroad off from British opportunities, reserves and protects those opportunities for British people who don't wish to emigrate in search for opportunities. The pie is smaller than it used to be, and isn't growing.
It's a narrow view but if I were a young person at the start or early stages of my career, I'd be happy to not have other countries' smart and ambitious folk competing with me for the available jobs.
I’d be happy to not have other countries’ smart and ambitious folk competing with me for the available jobs.
Thats a valid point, but from a narrow view. By the same effort you also deny yourself (if you are smart and ambitious) an easy way to take a job or work experience, and potential career in an EU Country, such as France, germany, Spain, etc.. it works both ways, that's kind of the whole point.
reserves and protects those opportunities for British people
It’s a sentiment… many people feel that way… but without forming connections between countries the economy is held back and job opportunities reduced. And anyway… as a youngster, if you were to really think it’s about competition for a finite number of jobs (or education places, which is at the heart of the proposals rejected)… wouldn’t you want to give people the opportunity to go abroad and free up a place for yourself? It’s mostly the mindset of older generations anyway, younger people tend to want the mixing and the opportunities that brings… even if they don’t want to study or work abroad for a few years themselves.
It is a narrow view, as I said. Having a wider view and considering the greater good is however an indulgence when you're making that crucial first step onto the career ladder.
Yes, it's denying an opportunity, however this is of no concern for people (the majority) who don't want to emigrate anyway.
Forming connections, holding back the economy... these are long-term strategic things. They don't help you when you've got your engineering degree and didn't get onto a graduate scheme, working in Tesco and living in your child bedroom.
I don't think it's just a sentiment. It's practically advantageous for many people on an individual level short-term, if not strategically for the population longer term.
And anyway… as a youngster, if you were to really think it’s about competition for a finite number of jobs (or education places, which is at the heart of the proposals rejected)… wouldn’t you want to give people the opportunity to go abroad and free up a place for yourself?
Ah I spotted you elaborated while I was typing. It really is competition for a finite number of jobs/places on the best courses and grad schemes, isn't it. Not just a way of thinking, it literally is a competition and the number of places is fixed. I see your balancing point, however I believe the UK tended to attract more students/workers in our direction.
of no concern for people (the majority) who don’t want to emigrate anyway
The proposals were not about migration. They were about short term visas for education and work, with rights for those students and workers. We can wall in our kids if we want, and try and stop them from having to mix with people born elsewhere, but they won’t thank us, they going to find ways around it… while they grumble about the hassles and limitations we placed on them to make ourselves feel better.
Ah, I used the wrong word. The point still stands; loss of opportunity to leave the country for a few years, has low to zero value if you never wanted to anyway.
I see you elaborated again while I was typing. I agree with you about the strategic perspective. I'm just arguing the point of the self interested individual.
Young people want to mix with other young people from other countries… it is only older people who seek to prevent that on their behalf. And we won’t be thanked for that… they overwhelming want us to stop putting up walls that they never asked for, and do not support.
I believe your perspective is accurate on that in a general sense. I think anyone having that perspective would however have doubts when they lose out on an oversubscribed opportunity though, e.g. places on a first preference uni course at a top uni, or a graduate programme.
As a demographic though, didn't younger and well educated people tend to vote remain in the EU?
So they were either voting against their best interests, which is of course possible, or they viewed EU access as a net gain in their future career/ lives?
They did. I am one and I did.
I felt it was indeed in my best interest as a whole package. If it was just about free movement without the trading freedom, it would have been a harder decision.
They go hand-in-hand.