Yes I think they can, though not seen the details
But I believe we can only apply for the ERC grants NOT the Innovation council grants which tend to be more technical , so its definitely not as good as full membership
Have personal experience of this as my previous lab we were unable to apply as the lead team in collaboration with a Dutch & Itallian labs as even in the grace period , was a massive PITA
Great news about Horizon and Copernicus - provided the deal is ratified by EU member states.
It then seems perverse that the UK didn't attempt to rejoin Euratom and intend to go it alone - except for nuclear fusion research.
Good news.
“We have something not as good as membership but better than nothing” is genuinely something to cheer these days. Let’s hope we get more chances to do this in the coming years… a long slow steady improvement on the new status quo but not as good as what we threw away… is still positive. That’s what rebuilding relationships looks like.
<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">Great news about Horizon and Copernicus – provided the deal is ratified by EU member states.</span>
How much is this going to cost us, vs what we paid to be in the EU before we left?
My understanding is that we'll be paying less and getting less. It is very fair towards us. Limited by what our government is prepared to accept and do, not the EU pushing to get a better deal out of us.
That might be "your understanding" but how much is the UK actually paying for this access?
I'm not questioning whether it's VFM etc, but looking at in the context of how much we use to pay IN TOTAL to be in the EU and with access to Horizon etc.
IIRC, 2 billion a year compared to about 17 billion a year in the past.
Obviously we’re not getting the same back from that… not even close.
It’s better than no involvement; an essential step in rebuilding.
We’ll be paying about the same as we get back. There are mechanisms to prevent a big discrepancy.
A big difference with previously is that we used to get a lot more out than our input into the programme. Another is that the visa requirements will be a pain in the arse for all concerned. Most of these projects are international in nature.
£2.6bn from another source, and then add in the £650m for nuclear - equals £3.2bn...
And it was £9bn in 2019, not £17bn.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
Is this why we never hear anymore about how much we use to spend to be in the EU, because even the hardest-of-thinking have worked out it was bloody good value?
It was amazing value. But also big numbers that people don’t deal with in their day to day lives. It really wasn’t understood by many people, they only heard big (to them) costs and were easily led (lied to) as regards the very real benefits and their dependancy on cooperation and coordination.
Did I miss Sunak telling us that the UK will be spending almost a 1/3 of what the entire EU bill use to be, JUST to re-join a science program?
It's a classic "good news, but brexit good news" story. Really glad it's happening and in isolation it's a good thing but as soon as you look at it compared to what we had before it's still a bad outcome. Plus as mentioned above, it does nothing to undo the harm of the gap, which might have been avoided completely and certainly could have been reduced and managed better. How much of that was incompetence, how much was zealotry and how much was just bloody optics, who even knows?
(I didn't work in research at the uni, but it was sort of adjacent to my job since I did student recruitment, and the spell when we were still in Horizon but we might as well not have been because for all forward planning purposes we were out, was proper brexit dystopia nonsense. Politicians saying "nothing's happened yet, it'll be fine" while huge amounts of work just went in the bin)
Good news indeed. Not as good as it was but another one that feels that this is indicative of the 'out but starting to move back towards' process. Also at the risk of starting the same argument again, why being out is crap but we can still make the best of it now.
On the getting back more than you get in. I understand the philosophy but it doesn't always wash. To me the benefit is the collaborative angle, and if we can move faster / discover things sooner as a result of the work of other, potentially more talented* researchers in other countries I don't really mind who does the research and gets the larger share of the money. That's what collaborative synergies are. If we wanted to get out what we put in / have absolute control, then just fund internal research...... but then you miss out on collaboration.
* Yes, there were times when we probably did get more because for all our faults we are/were still one of the bigger players with better facilities and equipment in Europe - so others were benefiting from us. Others have caught up, not least because we have lost some very talented researchers in the past few years to Europe because they were losing their ability to collaborate. I know both sides were part of the argument over the GFA, but if only that could have been avoided / sorted sooner. Bojo and reneging on agreements be damned.
Paying more for less.
Brexit bonus!
BTW, for those with a genuine work interest in this (rather than passing public interest) there's a KTN webinar next week.
https://iuk.ktn-uk.org/events/association-to-horizon-europe-information-webinar/
Meh, my driving licence is now not recognised in Spain, so no more driving for me until they rubber stamp my visa.
I’m not the only one in this situation, luckily Mrs DoD has a visa and can drive or that would have made life hard.
good old Brexit(UK recognises spanish licences which seems a tad unfair ) and I still can’t come home without losing my residency application.
Bitten by the unintended consequences of Brexit.
I rode Lon Las Cymru last week. Wales used to be littered with signs proclaiming 'This project part financed by the European Development Fund '. They've all been taken away. It's almost like they don't want people to be reminded of what they've lost.
More like they've been stolen. There's still lots around, especially on industrial buildings and large road projects, and some new ones are going up for the current Heads of the Valley section as that's using the last of the EU funds to get it completed.
Some groups are seemingly massively offended by the signs, have been for a long time, so they get vandalised or stolen on a pretty regular basis.
Surely you should have handed in your British driving licence and exchanged it for a Spanish one long ago dudeofdoom. The two years period you could continue to drive in Spain on a British licence was reduced to six months for non EU nationals the day the UK left the union. However they didn't apply that until March this year which is why six months later your licence is no longer valid.
Either you're a resident under the withdrawal agreement terms in which case you need a Spanish licence or you're British and visit as a tourist for up to 90 days a year. 30 odd years ago when I applied for a French carte de séjour I had a year in which to exchange my licence for a French one so the date on it was just under a year after the one on the carte de séjour - no problems. Britain still recongnises my French licence so it's obvious to have a licence for where I'm resident - home.
Either you’re a resident under the withdrawal agreement terms in which case you need a Spanish licence or you’re British and visit as a tourist for up to 90 days a year.
Or… they haven’t yet been able to satisfy the residency terms, but live in Spain. Not unusual. Application pending… once it’s sorted… swap the license (and drive to the UK to see people again).
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it is from previous posts.
Or… they haven’t yet been able to satisfy the residency terms, but live in Spain. Not unusual. Application pending… once it’s sorted… swap the license (and drive to the UK to see people again).
Yep, pretty much this 🙂
They initially didn’t believe I was living here,as I paid no bills,the concept of paying the wife housekeeping seemed an alien concept.
The residency requirements also seemed to randomly change in each region and it’s a system designed to take months which is taking years and I’m not the only person stuck in this grey area.
Either you’re a resident under the withdrawal agreement terms in which case you need a Spanish licence or you’re British and visit as a tourist for up to 90 days a year
or your a legal,illegal alien tax paying resident unable to join the Spanish cycling federation or drive anything requiring a licence and have no voting rights apparently 🙂
not a fan of vox popping (to easy to edit to match your agenda) but i thought the issues being stated
was interesting
Dyson called a hypocrite over Brexit by the Mirror, takes Mirror to court and loses. Oh dear.
Sir James Dyson loses libel claim against Daily Mirror publisher
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-67589147
“Scheming EU countries leave UK out of 'landmark' transport plans as map reveals betrayal”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1849136/eu-countries-britain-transport
“The UK has been left out of major trans-European transport projects that the EU is expected to approve. The trans-European transport network (TEN-T) regulatory framework agreement between the European Parliament and the European Council was approved earlier this week by the European Commission.”
WE also now have EU nationals that completed all the paperwork to stay being deported as once they had completed said paper work the government changed the stuff needed and didn't tell anyone
“Removing red tape” = new life changing red tape.
Am I getting this right?
Years of chaos down the line the DUP and the UK government have basically accepted the Northern Ireland Protocol that Theresa May negotiated in 2018?
Yes the DUP take a while to make up their minds....
In the words of Sam Coates from Sky News:
The British government are trying something quite hard:
They're trying to tell the DUP that something has changed about the way Britain relates to NI and they're trying to get rid of checks.
They're trying to tell the EU that nothing has changed.
And they're trying to tell the Brexiters that everything is fine and this doesn't reflect the UK's ability to embrace Brexit freedoms.
Not all three things can be true. And everybody inside government knows it.
I imagine the generous bung of 3.3bn greases the wheels somewhat. 🙄
So we now have the worst of all worlds, rendering the whole Brexit exercise utterly pointless?
Well, I never saw that coming.
Years of chaos down the line the DUP and the UK government have basically accepted the Northern Ireland Protocol that Theresa May negotiated in 2018?
She envisioned some of these "not-brexit benefits" being UK wide though. Admittedly the end result might not have ended up that way... but these arrangements definitely do not. This is not the end though... we have decades of trying to resolve the Ireland/NI/UK/EU/RoW trade offs and special cases as we work around NI not being in the SM & CU but All Ireland trade and society being at the centre of everything for Ireland, NI, the EU and the RoW (especially North America)... even if not for the rUK (or more accurately perhaps, England). The voters in rUK might chose to ignore NI when it comes to making big decisions... but the reality is that all UK governments have to deal with other countries who do consider Ireland and the NI as of far greater importance then the people of England do. They can't ignore NI, even when their voters choose to.
Food shortages and price increases again, thanks to Brexit: https://news.sky.com/story/mobile-phone-broadband-price-hikes-april-bt-ee-vodafone-three-money-blog-latest-13040934
BBC Radio4 PM show describe this NI deal as "the final piece of the Brexit jigsaw falling into place" ... they haven't got a clue what's still to come, have they.
kelvin
Full Member
BBC Radio4 PM show describe this NI deal as “the final piece of the Brexit jigsaw falling into place” … they haven’t got a clue what’s still to come, have they.
Got to have been pencilled by a true believer that's for sure!
Wonder of they know/care that we still haven't started all the border checks yet, or the impending meds shortages and all the other sh*t about to roll in?
Telecoms inflation-plus price increases are not driven by brexit.
Government and Ofcom listened too much to service providers and too little to consumers.
There is a growing lobby for the 'plus' element to be removed; Martin Lewis - Mr MSE - is pushing this hard.
Talk of the devil!
New Brexit food checks will test Britain’s supply chains
This time, the government are really going to do it. There is no going back. They are going to push the button on a new type of trade border coming into Britain from the continent.
we know why they are going to actually implement the changes this time as well, don't we? Continuing to salt the earth before the election! F*****rs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68135059
and even provide an incentive for both the UK and EU to work together to lower these barriers
Ahh… a Brexit benefit… new barriers create an incentive to work to reduce those barriers…
The impact is most likely to be seen on deli counters rather than supermarket shelves.
As always. Brexit is anti-SME and local
shops and pro globally owned large corporations. The opposite of what people voted for.
Ahh… a Brexit benefit… new barriers create an incentive to work to reduce those barriers…
Yep, a long painful slog to get back... to where we were.
Except we still wont be because of the rest of the putrid sh*t burger still left for us all to consume.
The whole thing is so nihilistic/infantile.
I bet this whole cobbled together Northern Ireland arrangement has fallen apart before the weekend, courtesy of the DUP.
THIS IS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR YOU *ING BRAIN-DEAD *S!!!
binners
Full Member
I bet this whole cobbled together Northern Ireland arrangement has fallen apart before the weekend, courtesy of the DUP.THIS IS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR YOU *ING BRAIN-DEAD *S!!!
Channel 4 news did make me laugh. They had a NI correspondent/ political expert on. He said that the loyalists are fixated on what they perceive to have lost but never mention the fact they are still very much in The Union etc etc.
The interviewer said, "so they are glass half empty types?"
He replies whilst laughing a little, "they can't even see the glass frankly."😂
I saw that and he’s only saying what we’re all thinking.
The guardian have just published an article saying much the same. The opening paragraph says it all…
Two years ago, the Democratic Unionist party (DUP) collapsed the power-sharing institutions at Stormont in protest at post-Brexit trading arrangements. At the time, I chatted to somebody with insight into unionist thinking. I remarked: “Surely they’re not that stupid?” They replied: “Yes, they [bleep] are.”
The DUP is celebrating this breakthrough – it should be apologising for the lives it has ruined
I mean we all know you have to as thick as mince to be thinking Brexit was a good idea, and all the Brexiteers have spent the last 8 years (Christ, is it that long?!) proving that point, but the DUP are on another level. I’ve seen cow pats with a more evolved sense of reasoning
This whole latest Farago will never see the light of day
Not sure the DUP are really that concerned by Brexit, the much bigger elephant in the room is they're no longer the majority in a state created just for them.
Not sure the DUP are really that concerned by Brexit, the much bigger elephant in the room is they’re no longer the majority in a state created just for them.
Winner winner chicken dinner! Open borders with the EU and the UK, what's not to like? I wonder what it will do to the property value in NI over the next few years?
I'm willing to put money on there being a united Ireland within 10 years. In the meantime, there must be a lot of smuggling going from Ireland-->N.I.-->British Mainland.
I'm quite enjoying the rabid Brexiteers telling us that its absolutely brilliant that NI now has 'the best of both worlds' and in the next sentence trying to justify how that would be a frankly terrible thing for the rest of the UK.
Bob Seeley was on Five Live this morning trying unsuccessfully to square that particular circle
Anyone else think the DUP have been sold a pup here and that this scheme will not survive contact with the EU / reality or if it does it will not deliver what the tories say?
For once I agree with you completely TJ. Its notable that its the leadership of the DUP pushing this, without anyone knowing what it actually involves. All I've heard from the rest of them is that they're reserving judgement until the've read the small print.
Once the detail comes out I expect the whole thing will fall apart on first contact with reality.
It'll be the standard NO! from shouty DUP people, who really seem to be struggling with the whole concept of it being the 21st century
Its the unsquarable circle. It always was. If its acceptable to the DUP then no way will the EU accept it and if its acceptable to the EU then no way will the DUP accept it. Hence the going round and round in ever decreasing circles for years
‘the best of both worlds’
How good does that sound?
Gimme, gimme, gimme!
Sold a pup possibly but maybe a bit more nuanced than that.
1. Tories look like they fixed something (they haven't)
2. DUP made to look like difficult gits again.
3. Leave a divided NI for Labour
My question is has the EU agreed to a change?
oldman - not yet but the change is minimal I think
I thought the EU mandated the integrity of their market? If you cancel checks on the sea border surely those checks will need to be reinstated at the land border?
No checks mean free movement of goods?
Personally I think it's an excuse to suspend the parliament. DUP are struggling more with Sinn Fein being in the top jobs. It'll fall apart again hopefully the incumbent has to serve xx years in a working devolved government and not just xx years from election to election, if latter I can almost pinpoint the date DUP allows stormont to sit again.
oldmanmtb2
Free Member
I thought the EU mandated the integrity of their market? If you cancel checks on the sea border surely those checks will need to be reinstated at the land border?No checks mean free movement of goods?
It is and always was going to be a fudge. Luckily the EU value the GFA more than the tories/brexiteers do.
Personally I think it’s an excuse to suspend the parliament.
Of course it was
Personally I think it’s an excuse to suspend the parliament.
Also the perfect chance to extract some more money.
FTFY
Also the perfect chance to extract extort some more money.
BTW wasn’t it the anniversary yesterday 🙂
Still,never gonna find out which law my fellow countryman were so appalled by they had to leave the eu or a quantifiable Brexit benefit for the masses that offsets the losses 🙂
They are still pedalling the vaccine rollout as a benefit 🙁
Didn't we get overtaken by some of the EU anyway? Think we were only temporarily the bestest ones...
Yup... we got out of the gate first... using a vaccine developed and produced in the EU and approved using the EU rules we were still operating under.
I was stupid enough to waste time fact checking some of that Brexit update guff. I stopped at London being the best place in the world to live. Car production is down year on year every year since 2016. Growth rate ? Well if you cherry pick favourable dates and the worst possible reference countries for comparison it might look good, but now look at GDP per capita and Germany is way ahead even if it's not growing. Innovation? Choose the the most favourable poll with contested criteria and you win, stick to what innovation really means and you end up behind Belgium.
https://fr.finance.yahoo.com/news/25-most-innovative-economies-2024-203515105.html?guccounter=1
When spin = bollocks.
A minor inconvenience the actual truth 🙂
That graph a couple of pages back, how come it was 20% overall yet not a single detail item got near 20%?
This one?
All the extra is the warm feeling of being sovereign and letting our politicians wreck things in a UK GB only way
[ to be clear, politicians in EU countries can also get a lot wrong, both collectively and nationally... but a small minority of people in this country will always say Brexit has a good impact on the UK even if they can only actually list negative impacts... simply because the mistakes made on our behalf can be seen as British mistakes ]
More seriously... that graph... many of those replying will think that Brexit has only been positive in one or two areas... but those areas really matter to them so consider the overall impact as positive.
Kelvin - yep, that one, just didn't add up or is it like usual, folk unable to actually support their 'beliefs' with facts?