MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
@klunk Good ol Paddy (a leading figure in the Economics department when I was at Liverpool University) first came to prominence supporting Maggie's policies of "letting the markets do their thing"
its a huge vote loser for them. 70% rejoin. 15% stay out 15% do not know in my constituency
That's people's views on Brexit. But does it reflect how they will vote at the GE? Brexit isn't the only issue. I'm very pro remain but I will still vote Labour because I know that rejoining isn't happening this term anyway, no matter who I vote for. It is a very long game we will have to play.
My point was that no matter how much labour want the next election not to be about brexit and I recognise why - it will be an issue because the pro europe parties will make it so. Labour are going to have to justify their pro hard brexit stance and it will be a live issue
Yes it will reflect how folk here vote in the GE and in other places as well. Labours brexiteer stance has cost them the chance off taking my seat which was a trad labour seat. IMO of course
SNP have a 14000 majority. previous election 7 000. ( so the SNP vote is "soft". SNP in disarray and Starmer has given the SNP a get out of jail free card. Starmer has said he wants and needs to take SNP seats - but all his policies go against what the majority of Scots voters want and his disdain for Holyrood means he has blown his chance to do so
Of course its different here with the much stronger pro EU electorate and 2 parties with a strong pro rejoin stance and one with a wishy washy pro eu stance
I'd love to be able to vote labour again. I did so for 30 odd years. I cannot now.
it will be an issue because the pro europe parties will make it so.
SNP aside, so what? The papers won't talk about Brexit, neither Labour or the Tories are talking about Brexit, that the L-D will is sort of meaningless in the grand scheme of things with the amount of coverage it'll get.
SNP have a 14000 majority
Given that Labour overturned a 20,000 seat last week, I don't think you can call any seat a certainty now
Under campaign rules the neutrality is much more closely guarded. When 2 or 3 political parties including the third bigggest by seats and the biggest by membership ( I think???) make it one of their main points they will have to get in the media. Ok it will be " in Scotland..." or "the SNP / greens......."
Oh my seat is as good a certainty as you can get. Different labour policies that actually are in line with the voters here would change that but labours brexit stance and pact with the tories have ruined their chances. Two really easy attack lines for the SNP that resonate with the voters locally. labour brexiteers and two cheeks of the same arse along with their pro privitisation and anti democratic stance
SNP and Greens will make sure that Brexit is a major point in the campaign - and then the express and mail will call them out as remoaners and then labour will have to justify their hard brexit stance.
If only people voted on policies eh?
TJ you need to realise that Scotland is politically a very small piece of the UK and quite frankly whoever we vote for will probably make SFA difference to the UK Parliaments' overall makeup - try looking outside of your box.
If only people voted on policies eh?
Yup - I will be doing as will all my pals. Hence not voting labour because of their policies. hard brexit, privitise the NHS, anti democratic.
In the borders - yes indeed. My point was a simple one. the SNP and greens ( and I hope the lib dems) will ensure brexit is an issue at the election and that labour have to justify their stance
I know it matters not one jot who we vote for . thats not my point. MY point is that brexit will be an issue at the GE UK wide because the pro europe parties will make it so. todays SNP leaflet makes it clear what their main attack lines will be. Brexit and two cheeks of the same arse
Unfortunately rejoining is just not as important to the wider electorate as it is to some of us individually. The Lib Dems ran on a full-bore re-join the EU platform and they were wiped out. Rightly or wrongly the electorate just hasn't had such a seismic shift since then to conclude that it is much more popular now. A couple of opinion polls showing marginally more enthusiasm for the EU just don't cut it.
Labour could promise full re-entry to the EU on the old terms by Christmas and Nicola Sturgeon could be unmasked as the secret shareholder in Newcastle United, but Labour would never get a 21% seing to overturn a 14,000 SNP majority.
today I got a piece of propaganda ( leaflet) from the SNP
1st piece. labour tory coalition in Edinburgh council, second Brexit calling out labour for being brexiteers
Surprised the SNP is not running a positive campaign on the basis of their track record of good governance, delivery and integrity in Scotland. 🤣 What happened to all the "politics in Scotland is different, you wouldn't understand, it's more consensual and less negative than Westminster" ****?
When you are given an open goal...........
Its such an easy and obvious attack line
the polls do show a seismic shift. 2:1 in favour of rejoin now. 5:1 in my city
Again - my point is simply that brexit will be a live issue at the election and a big one.
Ahh, so the kinder and consensus-driven politics goes out the window when it's easy and obvious? Good to know!
Meanwhile, nice to hear that all of those people who really care about the colour of their passport will be served by Humza
Yousaf.
So the UKCA mark is a failure then.
Plans to change the CE mark to the new UKCA one have been put on indefinite hold thanks to the cost and complexity of it. So where does that leave all the businesses that have sunk considerable cost into changing over? Have seen it appear on a few things I've bought over the last year or so.
Yes, was going to post that. What a surprise. Not.
It would have a problem when the UK regs moved away from the EU ones, which was all about 'taking back control'. And was a problem trying to find space on a small product for the CE mark and the UKCA one and getting labels printed. Also a load of extra admin to manage.
Unknown cost to companies over the last few years for exactly zero benefit.
UKCA was almost certainly doomed for failure where global trends for manufacturers are for harmonisation of standards - it just doesn’t make sense to create additional costs for domestic producers and barriers to entry for importers, it just means prices go up. But this is what you get from politicians who don’t have a clue about business, only about dogma and the optics created by a client media.
So… given ISO tend to be standards bubbled up from CEN, ETSI and the equivalents in USA etc… how do we, the UK, now inform future international standards that UK based companies are to design, develop and manufacture to?
Taking back control my arse.
Government website on UKCA, updated today.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking
Interesting points:
UKCA 'cannot be used in Northern Ireland', but is just 'not recognised' in the EU, I guess this is to do with the Windsor Framework, and
The UKCA marking can be used now. However, to provide businesses with flexibility, the government will bring forward legislation that would continue to allow recognition of the CE marking and the reversed epsilon marking for most goods that are being placed on the market, or put into service before 11pm on 31 December 2024. You should check the sector specific set of regulations that apply to your product.
Well, we don't.
It's all well and good burning standards.. but every other country has standards and if we don't meet them, then we cannot do business.
before 11pm on 31 December 2024
Is that another rolling deadline? A place marker? Or just not been updated yet? Where do the journalists get “indefinite” from?
Well, we don’t.
Indeed. These organisations work together where they don’t follow each other as well. So how do we get involved at all if we’re not informing and working within the European standards bodies, and yet don’t have our own? A minnow in an ocean of big players.
So… given ISO tend to be standards bubbled up from CEN, ETSI and the equivalents in USA etc… how do we, the UK, now inform future international standards that UK based companies are to design, develop and manufacture to?
I'd have thought it's still up to the company to understand their market and comply to the applicable standards, so most will still utilise the CE marking for sales to the EEC, the US just don't do conformity in this way and not struggled to sell goods in the EEC.
When it comes to something like this i can see it quietly being realigned to CE, and left alone for a long time!
I’d have thought it’s still up to the company to understand their market and comply to the applicable standards
Yes, but how do they help set future standards? They’re not invented in a vacuum; trade bodies and companies are involved in developing and setting standards… how do UK organisations and companies help set future standards in the way they did before Brexit? Without standards organisations we’re involved with? Has the UK government been working to give us influence in CEN, ETSI etc if we’re not to have our own standards bodies updating and developing our own standards? (of course not, useless ****ers)
The UKCA mark is just an inflationary pressure.
You make things for the bigger markets (US, EU) and the smaller markets are expected to buy things to those standards.
Anything else means you are designing twice and add costs.
Even failing to drive on the right side of the road is inflationary - though swapping would also have a big old cost.
Politecameraaction - you seem to be mistaking me for an SNP voter ./ supporter / member.
Its almost as if the booming fantasyworld rhetoric of the Brexiteers has once again come crashing into that uncomfortable 'reality' thing?
So, all these big prophecised 'Brexit Benefits' are being quietly dropped. You never even see the likes of Rees Mogg or Farage popping up to defend this nonsense any more
What was that they used to bang on about? Something about 'rule-makers' and 'rule-takers' or something?
Even the dimmest amongst the Brexiteers (and thats about as low a benchmark as you can get) must realise that we'll still have to accept all EU standards, or else we won't be able to trade, but will now have no say whatsoever in setting those standards.
Why had nobody mentioned the possibility of something like this happening?
Oh....
As it goes binners, Rees Moggy Mogg popped up in May claiming that Brexit stopped Putin successfully invading Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/video/share-12880596
At this point I'm assuming he's just reading this stuff verbatim from a ChatGPT autocue.
So where does that leave all the businesses that have sunk considerable cost into changing over?
Where? Having spunked a load of cash on yet another Leaver promise that's hit reality.
Imagine those who supported Brexit AND and have wasted money - no sympathy whatsoever.
This is going to be a mess of stratospheric? (is that a word?) proportions, when the EU border controls really kick in later this year.
And we left the EU to control our borders, allegedly.
I'd imagine, giving the implications of the full border controls coming in in October, that government officials are presently on their hands and knees in Brussels literally begging the EU for another extension
If not, then they ****ing well should be!
Or it'll just be more needless damage to our bawked economy for the sake of this lunacy. Idiots!
Where I think the import controls will really make a difference is small scale stuff like niche cheeses. Also if there is product shortage as is going to happen with a lot of fresh fruit ad veg due to droughts in Spain then why would exporters pay extra to export to us when they can sell all their product without that extra expense.
IMO this is going to create the most obvious bexit detriment - reduction in availablity out of season fresh food.
an insult to my palette
Maybe french and dutch cheese will become some sort of black market commodity...
Don't get me wrong, I love a bit of strong cheddar, but it's nice to have a bit of variety.
And let us not forget the greek feta, the king of all soft cheeses.
EDIT
Actually no, French Roule is a better soft cheese than the greek stuff.
More Brexit dividends: Eurostar trains from London to the European mainland were running with 30%+ of seats unsold...because there wasn't capacity to ensure every UK passport was stamped in and out of the EU. 🤦 We're trying to reduce carbon emissions and we are giving airlines a free kick on 1 hr flights from London to Brussels, Paris and Amsterdam. FFS,YFFs!
It won't embed?
Anyway... UK to carry on recognising EU's CE mark in stunning win for common sense shocker.
Where does this leave the UKCA? Genuine question!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66375185
^^ Just been reading up.
Apparently manufacturer can choose which to use...
Now,i bet we know which one they will choose and it won't be UKCA.😂
What an absolute and expensive farce! I bet there must be some companies tearing their hair out over this government's latest, time consuming and money consuming mistake.
What an absolute bad joke this government is.
Why loyalists/utter cretinous dickheads voted for brexit
EU food checks delayed for a fifth time for imports.
Pain for our businesses exporting but making it easy for imports to flow in. So much for the trade deficit.
Brexit the gift that keeps on giving. Why wouldn't they want to come here ?
Are there any figures for the numbers of people in the categories leaving, Klunk ?
The expected brain drain of EU nationals happened but was compensated by UK nationals returning to the UK.
Britain is becoming isolated and insular, it still has talent but that talent is cut of from many international projects and the intellectuals are intellectually poorer for it. People who might want to work in the UK don't because it's expensive, complicated and they don't feel welcome. Likewise UK nationals have understood that unless they are in a few highly saleable professions they are no longer wanted in the EU, Australia, the US... .
What's Brexit got to do with Australia and the US?
Picky, picky... think about it. International businesses employ people on the basis of the power of their passport and where they can travel and work visa free. Brits used to be able to cover Europe visa free but no-longer can.
Much as I hate Brexit that smacks of jambafacts 😉
Mrs Kilo regularly recruits for her company’s NY office from their UK and EU pool of staff and the criteria is can one do the work d get a US visa. The ability to travel without a visa to the EU (and they have business across the EU) is not a consideration as they are there to work in the US. They have also had no significant issues with UK citizens getting US visas either.
I declared years ago that I wouldn't have a blue passport. So my Irish application is completed and sent then stalled because it needs a customs declaration thanks to Brexit.
Thanks to the an post worker who sent it on its way regardless.
Mrs Kilo regularly recruits for her company’s NY office from their UK and EU pool of staff and the criteria is can one do the work d get a US visa. The ability to travel without a visa to the EU (and they have business across the EU) is not a consideration as they are there to work in the US. They have also had no significant issues with UK citizens getting US visas either.
If I was recruiting now for the jobs I & my team did 1995-2015 (FTSE100 companies with multiple EU, and overseas subs) I'd now recruit EU Nationals not Brits - based in the UK too.
It'd be too easy for a Brit to run out of time in the EU but an EU National gets twice as long in the UK. Even better if they were EU Nationals with UK Settlement rights. And the UK is just 1 country, vs 27.
It’d be too easy for a Brit to run out of time in the EU but an EU National gets twice as long in the UK.
I don’t think it’s that simple, to come and actually work in the UK for a UK company, an EU national (without prior rights) needs formal permission to work in UK, much like an UK citizen working in EU.
I’m not defending Brexit it’s monumentally stupid and harmful.
Much as I hate Brexit that smacks of jambafacts
🙂
🤐
I don’t think it’s that simple, to come and actually work in the UK for a UK company, an EU national (without prior rights) needs formal permission to work in UK, much like an UK citizen working in EU.
These were FTSE100 companies with subs across Europe, consequentially people would be 'employed' by a local business, but working across the business - so working out of London I 'employed' folk in France, Germany, Spain etc, but we all worked across Europe (and the RoW).
And the EU citizen can come to the UK for twice as long as we can go to ANY of the EU country's.
Im sorry I don't really get your point in relation to Ed's assertion.
And the EU citizen can come to the UK for twice as long as we can go to ANY of the EU country’
Has Ireland left the EU then? 😉
And the EU citizen can come to the UK for twice as long as we can go to ANY of the EU country’s.
I like how Brexit favours eu nationals,no messing about with that 90/180 days nonsense it’s an easy 6 months max then home then pop over whenever you want to start the next 6 months and no issue with having your driving licence recognised 🙂
more dismal news from Brexit Briton don't know about culture wars but this is certainly a war on our culture.
Tours get extended. Why employ someone who can't commit to more than 3 months?
Yet another reason why this whole thing has been a celebration of ignorance and the triumph of stupidity
When those checks come in its goong to be a clusterfarage
Christ.
It keeps getting kicked into the long grass with 'delays' as the UK administration hasn't got a clue how to deal with it, which technically is a fair position, as I can't see any way how to square that circle either.
It's going to be a right stinking mess. Maybe the tories should call a GE so they can as least attempt to deflect some blame for the approaching shit storm.
I suspect they will continue to delay it until after the election given its going to increase food prices
clusterfarage
Deserves attention.
Incidentally, has that other thread figured out any actual benefits yet?
“We are reflecting on the valuable feedback provided by a range of businesses and industry stakeholders and will publish the border target operating model shortly.”
Bit late to start listening now, isn't it?
clusterfarage
🎩
You'd really think the Tories would be keen to control the food stuff coming over our borders given they've seen the damage a single lettuce can do
So, Sunak bragging about removing monitoring and protection for river waters as a benefit (for developers) of not being in the EU.
I can see the tory line already..
We need more houses, so we are going to throw all the environmental rules out of the window and only really build a few super expensive houses on flood planes and green belts.
hash tag delivering.
Pretty much it.
Meanwhile, it’s now April 2024 before we introduce physical import checks on food imports from the EU… a fifth delay announced today. Leave it for Labour to try and sort it… and when/if they do the Tories can then claim they’ve betrayed the Brexit dream…?
We're gonna have to re-join the EU customs union at some point soon, in some form or another, it's just basic maths.
It might be dressed up as some kind of special deal, and to be honest, it will be a very 'special' deal.
We've royally ****ed ourselves. Or should I say 51% of the UK has ****ed itself.
Theres a 49ish% chance that whoever you meet in the UK isn't a total throbber.
This is more a single market issue than a customs union one… aligning with the single market on food and agriculture to reduce checks is going to have to happen. I’d like something done about customs as well… SMEs in the UK are being screwed by being outside the CU… but that’s not what the food checks would be about (if they ever happen in full… but that depends on the next general election).
https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/29/nhs_fdp_palantir_lockin/
This is pretty concerning too, but not supprising.
one comentor said:
Has this deal been audited by NCA or other organisation or are we waiting for "lessons will be learned" moment in a classic British fashion?
Can't wait to buy my medical records on DarkNet, it will probably be quicker than getting them from my GP.
And they wouldn't be wrong.
It would be nice to think that brexit is because of racist alcohilcs in wetherspoons, but they are just pawns with a voting card, It's actually very big business.
Both Open Democracy and Foxglove are actively and vocally opposed to the proposed Palantir deal.
I'm on their mailing lists and am a financial supporter.
I would stringly suggest anyone reading this to check out both; if you like what you see, sign up; donate if you can.
In my view, we need them more then we know.
It would be nice to think that brexit is because of racist alcohilcs in wetherspoons, but they are just pawns with a voting card, It’s actually very big business
We’ve already seen the government tearing up EU environmental standards so that water companies, property developers and house builders can make even more profit and sod the water quality for us mugs! And that will be the direction of travel until this lot are booted out
This was always the plan
Not long now before the Freeport’s are up and running to the delight of tax dodgers and money launderers around the world
That Palantir deal
That's a 'minor' issue I reckon compared to what we (and no doubt the next Govt) will find hidden in the various trade deals the Tories have signed...
This takes some beating for Orwellian Doublespeak
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1696455204990845089?s=20
Hold the front page, there's a benefit!
Removal of equal pay - back to the 70's, full speed while imagining what else has been removed and not yet noticed...
Also note that they're saying it'll be put back using "secondary legislation" - that is legislation that is put in without going through Parliament, and can be removed just as easily.
That removing woman’s equal pay rights via a sunset clause is pretty frightening ,they either decided to try and do it or it was incompetence.
Either doesn’t look good,probably worth reading thru all the others to see what else ‘accidentally’ might disappear.
And the use of secondary legislation so they can now just enable/disable an eu law without parliament on a whim.
What's going on with Horizon then?
Pre brexit Britain was a major player in the programme contributing 13% of the 95bn euro budget. "Great" I thought as I read the article but then it occured to me that £2.6bn wasn't much of a contribution.
So Britian is back in, good, but only contributing a quarter of the money, so how back in is it?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/sep/07/horizon-brexit-eu-science-rishi-sunak
Think that's simply a per year versus per program (5y) confusion.
yep yearly its the same, i believe its gone up a bit
we are only associate members though so losing influence, but still a huuuuge relief to uk research
and of course the damage has been done these past few years (eveb before grace period ended we lost grants due to uncertainty.shows how desperate Sunak is, a lot of brexiteers frothing about it but were slowly sliding back in.
Thank you, that explains it, all good then.
Does it still mean British (based) scientists can't be leads or is associate a full equivalence for grant applications?
it's odd one really can't see them getting grants above and beyond the 2.6b as eu governments will get it in the neck from their own side. And if that means greater freedoms for uk scientists in the eu where the **** are mine!