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Brexit 2020+

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A relative who works in TV has just found out that going to France to do a quick interview now incurs paying for a £700 temporary work visa and £1000 import duty on the equipment. Would have cost nothing last year. Cheaper now just to employ someone in the EU surely.

We are all going to have stories to share like this in the coming months. The suppressed economy during covid is just disguising the magnitude of the calamity. Without covid the added red tape and complications would have ground the country to a halt anyhow.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 8:27 pm
 Sui
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I can get the work visa (though amount seems daft), bu the import duty is balls. Even taking things outside of the EU you can, and have been able to cover these off with ATA Carnets for years.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-use-your-ata-carnet


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 8:33 pm
 igm
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aP - just be glad that us power engineers don’t respect democratic votes - otherwise your lights will be going out somewhat more frequently than you’re used to. 😉

P.S. It wasn’t me dancing to Europe’s tune - I don’t work for the TSO.

P.P.S. Sui, yes same as driving a car power in needs to equal power out or things slow down or speed up. Drive up a hill and you need more power, so the rpm (or system frequency circa 50Hz) drops unless you put more power in. On a power system you take two actions - bring fast acting power supplies (hydro or spinning reserve, or these days batteries) on line to put more power in and reduce / shut down some demand so you don’t need quite so much power in total. There are a variety of ways of taking those two actions, but if you don’t the frequency drops. If it drops far enough it can start damaging things or stopping things working. The system is set up to disconnect and shut down bits of itself before that happens to isolate the bit with the power imbalance and also so at least you have something you can restart. See also black start.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 8:41 pm
 mrmo
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https://www.ft.com/content/be929057-2bbf-4cfc-9106-11665b180824?shareType=nongift

and the carnage continues, we've killed the fishing Industry, now the pig farmers.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 8:43 pm
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A relative who works in TV has just found out that going to France to do a quick interview now incurs paying for a £700 temporary work visa and £1000 import duty on the equipment.

As SUi says Carnet will cover equipment and it would appear he mightn't need a work permit.

for a three months or less period, foreign employees who are nationals of third countries, coming to French territory to exercise a salaried professional activity in one of the following fields:
Sporting, cultural, artistic and scientific events.
Conferences, seminars and trade shows.
Production and distribution of cinematic and audiovisual works, shows and recordings.
Modeling and artistic posing.
Personal service workers and domestic workers working in France during their private employers’ stay in the country.
Audit and consulting in IT, management, finance, insurance, architecture and engineering, under the terms of a service agreement or intra-company transfer agreement.
Occasional teaching activities by invited lecturers.

From here


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 8:59 pm
 Sui
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P.P.S. Sui, yes same as driving a car power in needs to equal power out or things slow down or speed up. Drive up a hill and you need more power, so the rpm (or system frequency circa 50Hz) drops unless you put more power in. On a power system you take two actions – bring fast acting power supplies (hydro or spinning reserve, or these days batteries) on line to put more power in and reduce / shut down some demand so you don’t need quite so much power in total. There are a variety of ways of taking those two actions, but if you don’t the frequency drops. If it drops far enough it can start damaging things or stopping things working. The system is set up to disconnect and shut down bits of itself before that happens to isolate the bit with the power imbalance and also so at least you have something you can restart. See also black start

<scratches head> right gottya! - i think.. 🙂


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 9:07 pm
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According to the horse himself your friend doesn't need a Visa if he's going for fewer than 90 days, Inkster:

https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil/vous-etes-britannique-en/modalites-de-voyage-en.html

Edit, the list of exemptions helpfully linked by Mefty only covers saleried personnel, which TV film crews often aren't IME.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 9:42 pm
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"As SUi says Carnet will cover equipment and it would appear he mightn’t need a work permit"

Who said They were a he?

Anyhow, I'm sure your all probably right on the details and I didn't ask her for a precise breakdown as to the exact nature and applications of penalties. Suffice to say, Its costing £1700 more to do something in their industry that they wouldn't have had to pay before Brexit.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 10:42 pm
 dazh
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and the carnage continues, we’ve killed the fishing Industry, now the pig farmers.

Not exactly a bad thing for those of us who refuse to eat them. Brexit has done more damage to the meat and dairy industry than decades of animal activism and promotion of vegan diets. It's all a bit odd.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 11:24 pm
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for a three months or less period, foreign employees who are nationals of third countries, coming to French territory to exercise a salaried professional activity in one of the following fields:

That's for France, what about the other 26 countries?


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 11:32 pm
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That’s for France, what about the other 26 countries?

As sovereign nations I expect that they can make their own rules on the matter. Oh the Irony.


 
Posted : 27/01/2021 11:41 pm
 aP
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@igm - thanks for the explanation, a friend messaged me about it over the weekend, but his version was it could have been 'a proper shit storm'.
I think that as with many other things that we're becoming aware of is the inter connected nature of global systems.
** Sighs **


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 12:23 am
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Who said They were a he?

Maybe you should have said "a female relative" if gender is important to you. English is a really shit language in that the gender of a person isn't presented immediately you talk about them. In France we have the opposite problem; gender is instantly apparent but we don't have equivalents to "they" and "them" for people who don't want a gender ascribed to them. New ways being deveopped to counter this, for example "iel".

In short if you don't make an effort to be clear that you're being gender neutral or gender is important to you don't expect them to do it for you and it's unfair to get angry if they don't.

It's rare your posting irritates, Inkster, but that was a cheap snipe at a man trying to be helpful unless of course Mefty is really a woman or an iel but is cool about people getting their gender wrong so don't raise the issue.

I used to constantly type "he/she" on here as not knowing the gender bothered me (French is the language I use most) then as the gender issue became scoially imorptant I realised I should really be typing "he/she/they", as others weren't gave up. Maybe I'll start again.

Edit:

Googling this says that new pronouns have been invented in English too:

https://www.mypronouns.org/ze-hir

I trust you'll be using them, Inkster, because if you say "they" I'll assume you are talking about someone who is neither he nor she.

@bedofnails


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 7:45 am
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I think that as with many other things that we’re becoming aware of is the inter connected nature of global systems.

Those of us old enough AND who have worked in jobs where we saw the differences between pre SM & CU and the SM & CU (and worked across non-EU borders) have been saying it all along - unfortunately we were drowned out by the "we managed in the war" crowd.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:49 am
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It comes down to “sovereignty or interaction”… and at some point the UK has to change course.

Anyway…

https://www.reuters.com/article/eu-usa-clearing-idUSL1N2K20RU

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_205

TLDR: if the UK won’t accept EU rules to trade in their financial markets (after the 18 month grace period) than the USA will.

My spin? It’s all about the UK wanting to be a tax haven rather than be a main player in the ‘real economy’ that you and I work in.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:07 am
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Brexit has done more damage to the meat and dairy industry than decades of animal activism and promotion of vegan diets. It’s all a bit odd.

It's a bit early to say yet. Certainly some sectors are struggling but the farmers around here (Yorkshire Dales) are a bit confused - lamb prices are really high at the moment and no-one seems to know why as we export about 45% of our production to Europe and the assumption was that trade would crash. Our neighbour normally buys store lambs to fatten up but they were reaching prices that he'd normally be selling at so hasn't bothered this year. Whether that's sustainable or not is to be seen.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:55 am
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It cost my company about £1500 when I went to Switzerland for a few weeks. Some of that was the low-level work permit thingy I needed, and some of it was the fee for the company we pay to handle these things for us. It was still a ballache to do though, because the questions and categories I had to fit into were nonsensical.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:25 am
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It’s all about the UK wanting to be a tax haven rather than be a main player in the ‘real economy’ that you and I work in.

I think that this has been the objective all along. The omission of financial services from the "trade deal" was not a mistake. It is to leave the City Of London free for offer 'innovative' financial products / money laundering facilities to the rich and infamous.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:39 am
 Del
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My chief had been looking at us working on the mainland. Each country has its own rules on visas and whatnot. He thinks even our personal toolkits which would normally just get thrown in the hold luggage will need to be imported/exported. I'm not so sure but the real problem of course is there's no guidance and everyone is basically making it up as they go along. Including HMRC and the government at large. Unsurprisingly guidance from the EU countries is pretty clear and concise. Carnets are a bollock. As are visa applications. Particularly when you're used to just booking flights, car, accomodation and going.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:54 am
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TLDR: if the UK won’t accept EU rules to trade in their financial markets (after the 18 month grace period) than the USA will.

The EU based their rules on the US rules so it is hardly a surprise they have agreed equivalence, but the US ain't following EU rules. The US were the first big pushers for a move away from managing credit risk in the OTC derivative markets using collateralized ISDAs to a clearing house system. They essentially invented the concept years ago - see CBOT and CME clearing houses - early example of the model. Indeed the first clearing house in the Eurobond market, Euroclear, was set up and owned by JP Morgan. But clearing houses are just part of the fabric of financial markets and are separate to trading. Afterall London dominated Eurobond trading even though Euroclear was based in Brussels.

So essentially there are bugger all conclusions about future UK policy to draw from this announcement.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 12:15 pm
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But clearing houses are just part of the fabric of financial markets and are separate to trading.

"just"

but the US ain’t following EU rules

Not true.

Anyway... this is the kind of equivalence we will end up agreeing to, once the "sovereignty not interaction" policy gets dropped. Which it will. Eventually.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 12:20 pm
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I asked a simple question about whether being outside the EU may have actually been a benefit in this situation. This is why I was hesitant about mentioning it because as you’ve amply demonstrated it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion on this without the culture war nonsense kicking in.

I'm having a bit of a problem with equating 'sensible' discussion, with 'they've thrown their dummies out of the pram'.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 2:29 pm
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Anyway… this is the kind of equivalence we will end up agreeing to, once the “sovereignty not interaction” policy gets dropped. Which it will. Eventually.

Even a cursory knowledge of how equivalence works would lead to one knowing it doesn't involve any agreement between countries or another country following the rules of another.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 3:35 pm
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Equivalence doesn’t require agreement? Go on…


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 3:47 pm
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Apologies Edukator, was only having a laugh, should have followed up with a wink emoji!

I imagine loving in France the pronoun thing can be an absolute nightmare with all that 'le' and 'la' business. Even common, everyday objects seem to have gender assignation, if you're not careful you can end up offending a toaster or a vacuum cleaner!


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 3:47 pm
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The Germans are way ahead of us and the French with this.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 3:49 pm
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tillydog
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I think that this has been the objective all along. The omission of financial services from the “trade deal” was not a mistake. It is to leave the City Of London free for offer ‘innovative’ financial products / money laundering facilities to the rich and infamous.

And the thing about that is- it might well be true, with this lot, but it'll cost us money. It'll enable a few people and a few organisations to make more money, but it'll harm the industry as a whole. And also inevitably the shady end of the financial sector is far less stable. So make your own conclusions about whether the people who benefit a) are Tory party donors/members/actual bloody MPs/family members/school chums or b) us.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 4:07 pm
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It’ll enable a few people and a few organisations to make more money, but it’ll harm the industry as a whole.

This.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 4:09 pm
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I was speaking to my Brexit voting, 75 year old uncle over Christmas. We generally avoid the 'B' queestion but he voluntarily piped up that "We'd been lied to" Resisting the temptation to say "what did you expect you plonker" I instead chose to agree with him.

The Tories ramped up a culture war to get Brexit done but I can't see where they can take that culture war from here, especially with the new administration in the States. The Government has run out of scapegoats and all the chickens will come home to roost on their own doorstep as every individual feels a direct and clearly attributable impact due to Brexit.

I'm loathe to talk of 'healing' (curing cancer with prayer and all that) but finger pointing at Brexit voters who are now having doubts and indulging in schadenfreude will only extend the culture war. Theres a big difference between telling someone they were stupid for voting for brexit and saying "yes, the Government lied to us." Don't give them the excuse of going looking for new scapegoats. If they are beginning to see what a bunch of shits the Government are and that they have been taken for a ride then at least that will be something around which we can build a new consensus!


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 4:57 pm
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Meanwhile, Mrs David Cameron is struggling with brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55839256

I have various comments I could make involving terms like "karma" and "poetic justice," along with a YouTube clip of Windsor Davies, but really I think they're redundant here aren't they.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 5:18 pm
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Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 8:53 pm
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Loved reading your bio, Dan:

Biography

Working class, can't stand violin playing middle classes that think, lock down is hard!!..


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:06 pm
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Love Reading remoaners comments, always makes me smile.. There pain not mine

Why not give other people a reason to be happy then, rather than being gleeful at their upset. What has Brexit done to make my life in the UK better, fairer or easier (speaking as someone from a working class background and not being a violin player)?


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:12 pm
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Does this mean I need to learn the violin?


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:13 pm
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Probably


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:25 pm
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Thanks glad you like it


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 9:28 pm
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I'd love to learn an instrument but lockdown is too hard!


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:07 pm
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Does this mean I need to learn the violin?

It will make the last part about lockdown being hard true. At least for anyone you live with and your neighbours.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:19 pm
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Danfay you won enjoy....

Passtt .. careful what you wish for.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:26 pm
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It’s all about the UK wanting to be a tax haven rather than be a main player in the ‘real economy’ that you and I work in.

And also avoiding scrutiny of the torys and their cronies tax affairs

many of them made their money out of tax avoidance


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 10:29 pm
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What TJ says and to sell the UKs data (NHS and beyond)

Not many people understand the value of the clinical data set to the likes of Google, Apple, Samsung, Insurance Companies the BUPAs - its worth billions every year.


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:10 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55847026

Looks like another Brexit bonus


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:17 pm
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Why not give other people a reason to be happy then, rather than being gleeful at their upset. What has Brexit done to make my life in the UK better, fairer or easier

BOOHOO SNOWFLAKES HAHAHA &c

/satire


 
Posted : 28/01/2021 11:52 pm
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Some members of my family believe that i will end up back at their level due to brexit (that will show you kind of thing) but the reality is that wont happen.

I live in the NE and I get the distinct impression this is a big factor in why brexit was heavily supported round these parts.

+1. And parents believing it'll make their kids come back home from the regions/cities they moved to for a better life, whether that was in the UK or in Europe.

TBH they have made some progress towards their goals. My job security and prospects have diminished, the weak pound keeps me holidaying in the UK, and I don't have nice German cars anymore. Things they themselves never had.


 
Posted : 29/01/2021 12:10 am
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Cheers I will, and so will you once you stop throwing your teddies out!!!


 
Posted : 29/01/2021 12:12 am
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