After five years and countless billions we’ve gone from ‘best thing ever’ to ‘not all bad then.’ It’s like finding a surprise M&M in your cat’s litter tray.
I'm going to be quoting this for years! 🙂
not possible to say anything with that much certainty.
Is this your first TJ arguement? 🙂
Just responding to some of the comments above..
Not advocating low skill jobs for us Northern folk, i was just making the point folks are happy to work hard.
Entitlement is in respect to there should be highly paid low/semi skilled jobs available- like my mate who expects £36k salary, 38 hour week, final salary scheme pension, 30 days paid leave for driving a forklift, not an etitlement to sit on his arse. What he currently has is a job that pays £18k minimum pension rights and the statutory holiday entitlement for driving a forklift. The business he works for does ok (distribution) 150 employees, he assumes that because the boss drives a Jag they have loads of cash.. i said if you all got an £18k pay rise thats over 2.5 million? The business in question made about 300k net.
Anyway the point i am trying to make (badly again) is the monumental disconnect between peoples understanding of how the world turns in respect to markets and economics hence brexit vote.
Its partly explained why on the whole salespeople are disproportionately rewarded in most organisations as they create income. Cost centre v profit centre- this is lost on some of my family members - ironically the Pit Men (miners) in my family literally dug money out of the ground.
In short sold a "concept" that can not be delivered economically or socially by the current Government as it would be in direct opposition of its baked in ideology.
Yep, despicable behaviour. Sorry… who did that?
I'm not going to go searching because it's pointless, but you know full well there were people on here expressing exactly this.
One other point, there is no shortage of educational opportunities in the North East as a business wework with lots of FE and the College facilities are amazing and the staff commitment and ingenuity is exceptional. (Darlington College Cyber Security skills course is outstanding)
Sadly education is not valued by a lot of folks up here, i have some nephews who if you dont have a good grasp "Ashington dialect which virtually removes the letter O" (Toast is pronounced Taste) you wouldn't have a ****ing clue what they are talking about not to mention the words that only exist locally (speoch to look)
Dont think for one minute i am not proud of my accent or my roots it has actually been a benefit sounding a bit Geordie. However people need to be able to articulate and this lack of education underpins this, i learnt a long time ago in business you are judged/restricted and this almost certainly happened to me and i got round it by running my own business.
I never hide my piss poor working class background, its who i am but i need to articulate and i gained that via education and learning from others.
Anyway the point i am trying to make (badly again) is the monumental disconnect between peoples understanding of how the world turns in respect to markets and economics hence brexit vote.
The scary thing is that those most guilty of that are the Brexiteer MP's presently doing such an appalling job of running the country. The level of ignorance about how global trade actually functions is gob-smacking. They seriously haven't got a clue. I know they're a motly collection of third-rate journalists and carpet-baggers but they appear the most uncurious people I've ever seen. The ignorance seems wilful. Not only do they not know about these things, they don't want to know.
The fishing issue is the perfect example. They're slapping each others backs for getting the rights to pull every last fish out of UK waters, without stopping for a second to think bout who the **** they're going to sell it too. No customers, no market, no point sending a single boat out to sea
This says it all...
I’m not going to go searching because it’s pointless, but you know full well there were people on here expressing exactly this
This is true
Loving the M&M reference.
Hilarious article in the Mail today with consumers' 'fury' over customs fees for importing goods from the continent. How, exactly, did they think it would work (and this isn't even No Deal!)?
By the way it all makes me sad as ****
I have tried to help family but if you are 18 years old in Ashington you need to speak like your mates, wear the correct tracky and trainers, have a t**t haircut and a few tattoos and aspire to drive a lowered Corsa with a busting sound system and smoke as much Ganja as you can get your hands on added to a reading/writing age of 9 it ****ing difficult to make progress.
They’re proud of their work ethic and ability to stand on their own two feet without needing handouts. At least they were, and in many cases for various reasons we all know, they can no longer do that and they are incredibly resentful. Brexit plays to both their sense of independence, and their hatred of anything and anyone who looks like the handwringing liberal elite offering them handouts (The EU, Corbyn, woke lefties, southerners in general).
I dip in and out of this thread for a touch of light reading and usually don't feel the need to comment.
However, this intrigues me as the aims of the authors of Britannia Unchained don't seem that far removed form the people Dazh is describing.
I struggle to understand the mindset but if, truly, a removal of handouts and benefits combined with lifelong low paid employment (which is what they had in the past) for them and their kids is what they want then it's no bad thing to give it to them.
I come from a mining family, I'm the first generation not to go down the pit straight from school, although many of my cousins did, and I've always been fiercely left wing prior to the referendum.
The way my, and my wifes, family react to us (she's from Throckley, Newcastle) because we've not stayed in the area and went to get an education tags us firmly in the hand wringing lefties category. There are even people Debs went to school with who won't talk to her because she left the village and married a non-geordie.
I have politically moved a long way right since 2016 and could not bring myself to vote in the last election.
Now I would always consider the direct benefits to me and my very direct family rather than society come elections and could see me considering my first ever Tory vote the next time if it benefits me - now that's something I would never have thought I'd ever say.
Sorry one more thing, my nephews Mum was complaining on facebook that Primark was shut? She did not know there was a national lockdown.
Thats what we are dealing with... and loads of her mates weighed in telling her phone primark and complain...
Sit back and just process that.
Christ i think its time for a beer.
Now I would always consider the direct benefits to me and my very direct family rather than society come elections and could see me considering my first ever Tory vote the next time if it benefits me – now that’s something I would never have thought I’d ever say.
Even with the way they are 'running' the country now?
Throckley... mate you are batting well above..
😃
colp
I think they’re going to need a potential negative as well or the battery won’t work.
This deserved more recognition.
Even with the way they are ‘running’ the country now?
How they are running it now is probably not in my best interests.
But it may be at the time of the election.
Previously I would have voted between all parties EXCEPT the Tories.
Now they get equal consideration from me so long as I get the best for me.
Sit back and just process that.
Christ i think its time for a beer.
I keep added on Friendface some of the lads I went to school with in a very northern working class area, so my social media feed isn't just a leftie liberal echo chamber.
Theres a definite correlation between reposting Britain First racist propaganda during the referendum campaign, and now completely ignoring lockdown rules and gleefully posting pictures of themselves doing so, while also posting nonsense claiming Covid is a hoax/conspiracy and Bill Gates is behind it all. Normally in caps lock with no punctuation.
Now they get equal consideration from me so long as I get the best for me.
By the sound of it, you're absolutely their target market
There are even people Debs went to school with who won’t talk to her because she left the village and married a non-geordie.
When I've been back home to visit my mum and dad over the past 20 years I've had everything from being called a posh southern tw*t (sometimes in jest, sometimes not), traitor, snob, and worst of all a Man U fan. On the whole though it's generally ok as long as you obey one rule: Don't look down on them or think you're better, or give them any reason to suspect you might think that. My Mrs is from a true-blue upper middle class family in Sevenoaks and has never had a problem, because she's never shyed away from talking to the locals at their level (tip: just swear a lot) or displayed any form of snobbery. They all bloody love her quite frankly, and is proof that it's possible to bridge the divide.
The scary thing is that those most guilty of that are the Brexiteer MP’s presently doing such an appalling job of running the country. The level of ignorance about how global trade actually functions is gob-smacking. They seriously haven’t got a clue. I know they’re a motly collection of third-rate journalists and carpet-baggers but they appear the most uncurious people I’ve ever seen. The ignorance seems wilful. Not only do they not know about these things, they don’t want to know.
And therein lies the problem at the heart of every single populist Government / regime.
Dictator type ousts anyone with an ounce of common sense or original thought or genuine skill because those people are seen as threats to the cult which requires nothing other than absolute fawning obedience. And a tribe of subservient toadies are brought in to be Yes Men and Women, blindly agreeing with everything the Dear Leader says regardless of their ability (or otherwise) to do the job.
It works fine (for a while) when everything is going brilliantly. If there was no Covid, no Brexit and the economy was going well and we'd voted in BJ and his cronies, it probably wouldn't be that bad, the country could sort of get along and run itself for a little bit. We've got the worst of all worlds now with a thoroughly inept Government, the hardest possible Brexit short of a No Deal and the worst Covid outcome in the world.
At least some areas seem to be waking up to the idea that Project Fear might actually have been telling the truth. Not that it helps much now. 🙁
True – which is why we’ll see greater vertical integration as is already the case with Tesla’s operating model.
The worry there is the at the reduction in specialism will increase costs and reduce quality as is already the case with Tesla.
My posts do have the merit of being backed up by something linkable that is perfectly readable if you use Google translate, I'm quoting them word for translated word.
Which brings me to:
In Nissan’s case they’ve committed themselves to the UK for the foreseeable and have the battery manufacturing capability to support the move to electric.
I've checked a few sources and the deal has assured the factory's "short term" future, that is very different to "foreseable future".
The new battery plant is not on line yet so I've no idea how they're going to sell the 62kWh Leaf in Europe without a tarif in the short term.
I've been quoting but I'll now add a personal opinion: It's too soon to make a call. The industry is only starting to work under the new rules and so far it's been a logistic nightmare. Maybe they'll get everything running smoothly and get to 55% local content on the whole range; I have no reason to disbelieve the source I linked about current local content being below target which implies tarifs on at least some models. Nissan is committed to the "short term".
Who knows who Boris is going to piss off next? The deal is not a fixed set of conditions, Barnier made sure it could evolve if Britain tires to tip the playing field in its favour. The future of Nissan Sunderland relies on things being better than they are now, not worse. Nissan is making hug losses. It was before Covid and it's getting worse. There's already reorganisation of dealer networks and distribution to cut costs. How much of the Nissan range will survive I have no idea and nor does anybody else.
A while back MDavids tried to convince me that Juke sales were only falling as it was an old model and would pick up with the new model. I've seen nothing to idicate that the new Juke is a success, care to update? Production at the plant was already falling pre-Covid. It's worryingly low right now.
TJ, you obviously don't understand how the industry operates.
Sunderland is safe for at least the next 7 years and in the industry thats pretty much as safe as you can be.
Within the Renault/Nissan Alliance plants compete against eachother everytime a new model comes up. I assume other carmakers operate in a similar way. Some of the 'special' plants are guaranteed a constant stream of new models but the vast majority have to win each model as they come along. Unfortunately Sunderland is in the latter category but it is safer than most due to its size.
This means that once a model is committed to a plant it is almost impossible to move it to another plant. New Juke, new Qashqai and hybrid versions of each are now committed to Sunderland and they have a life of at least 7 years. They can't be moved easily as Juke is not built anywhere ellse and other plants simply don't have the spare capacity to absorb the 300K+ that Sunderland produces.
Granted Sunderland may not get the new models due on stream in 2027 but then again no other plant in the world (aparts from the 'special' ones) is guaranteed them either. Hopefully the localisation of suppliers continues including the battery plant at Blyth. If it all works out we could end up with a stronger automotive industry not a weaker one (I admit its a big if!).
Brexit is a terrible thing but little bits of good news like this should be gratefully received. Not buried under misinfomed opinion just because it doesn't fit the desired narrative.
Juke production is also being increased as the plant can't meet demand.
Sorry one more thing, my nephews Mum was complaining on facebook that Primark was shut? She did not know there was a national lockdown.
Thats what we are dealing with… and loads of her mates weighed in telling her phone primark and complain…
Sit back and just process that.
IQ has a range, some people are closer to one end of that range than the other. The sad reality is where people get their information/ news from has changed and not necessarily for the better
Don’t look down on them or think you’re better, or give them any reason to suspect you might think that.
That reads as though you think that's what we do.
We're only nurses not the ****ing Rockefellers
Wanyaic - this is not good news. Its news not as bad as it might be delivered by someone bribed to say it and spun
I thought sunderland had already lost models and the fact that that statement said the delays in parts supply causing shutdown are covid related not brexit related shows just how much veracity there is in it.
Good news about Nissan; it doesn't matter why they took the decision - the fact is this removes a threat from 6,000 directly employed plus many more in the local supply chain and in local businesses generally.
As for oldmanmtb and dazh commenting about the mentality in some/many north eastern communities, my home town is Wallsend; I couldn't wait to leave and, as both parents are dead, I never return.
Will drive past or through it on the way to Northumberland but that's as close as I get.
The wilful ignorance and lack of ambition of many - not all - always staggered me when I lived there and I doubt that will have improved.
My parents were determined that both my brother and I would get the best possible education for the best possible start in life; that was the single most important decision they ever made.
I'm with you there TJ, it's not good news just news that is less bad. The cost of Brexit may be peanuts to such a large company but it's still a cost.
Still don't see understand this attitude where some people seem happy that others are losing their jobs. Hurts us all in the end.
Two models have been lost in the last 3 years. Infiniti Q30 because no-one ever bought them and X-Trail because the payback on investment was not good enough regardless of Brexit.
That reads as though you think that’s what we do.
Not at all, it was a general comment and not aimed at you specifically. Although TBH in many places up there all you have to do is speak in a different accent to be branded as 'posh'. I actually agree with a lot of what oldmanmtb says. There is an inbuilt prejudice against any form of achievement. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people say 'who do you think you are?' simply for wanting to get away or do something outside the established deadend culture.
As with many other areas in the UK, the 'working class' is split down the middle between those who work and identify as I described above, and those who feel entitled to benefits. My family were the former and despised the 'scroungers'. There were kids at my school who came from these families who in retrospect had horrendous problems with abuse and neglect, yet we bullied them mercilessly, calling them tramps etc. It's a bloody brutal place quite frankly, and it's why I get annoyed when I see middle class metropolitan types passing judgement when they have no idea what it's like.
As with many other areas in the UK, the ‘working class’ is split down the middle between those who work and identify as I described above, and those who feel entitled to benefits.
We're getting a bit off topic, but where I'm from was exactly the same. Display any type of ambition at school and line yourself up for merciless bullying.
People who went to the same school as me and had the same education have gone on to some amazing achievements, a lot of them left school barely able to read or write. Not that it bothered them.
As for oldmanmtb and dazh commenting about the mentality in some/many north eastern communities, my home town is Wallsend;
Not long ago my dad took my Mrs to Wallsend for a day out (the roman museum place) and she came back quite scarred. Said it was the roughest and scariest place she'd ever been and she used to work as a drug worker in Trafford so wasn't exactly ignorant of the underclass.
Wallsend? I go there occasionally as i have a friend there who is not in great health, i didnt think it was that bad?
the factory’s “short term” future, that is very different to “foreseable future”.
Not these days. The forseeable future is very much short term currently, it's measured in days!
oldman, Wallsend compared to Ashington...may not be too bad.
This is turning into the 4 Yorkshiremen...
Yorkshireman... they were lucky
I see that Janet Yellen, Biden's pick for Treasury Sec, has said the US will not be doing any trade deals anywhere until the '...US economy is fixed' - whatever that means.
That may give johnson something to think about but look...here comes liz truss, the Queen of trade deals, so that's alright then.
Kim Darroch, ex-ambassador to the US, has said he doesn't anticipate a US-UK trade deal within 4 years.
A couple of weeks ago I posted that Biden's focus on trade deals would have the EU at or near the top with the UK nowhere; that may prove to be overly optimistic.
It's all going really well.
Was Bojo's increase in defence spending an attempt to swing a slightly quicker chance at a UK-US trade deal? Considering the NATO minimum was supposed to be 2% I think, and all but the UK fall short of this.
Was Bojo’s increase in defence spending an attempt to swing a slightly quicker chance at a UK-US trade deal?
Chance to write more fat cheques for his cronies under the cover of "national security" more like.
How they are running it now is probably not in my best interests.
But it may be at the time of the election.
So you'd vote based on what they promised in a campaign, rather than based on how they govern once they are in office? To be fair, millions do exactly this.
It's clear that Biden's team speak with one voice; he is not going to contradict Yellen.
As and when the US start considering trade deals their focus will be on major trading blocs; the world is moving towards trading blocs - strength in depth/in numbers and all that - at the same time the UK govt has said...we're going our own way and will stand alone.
Fools and idiots.
Biden has not forgotten johnson's comments about Obama, his cosying up to trump, his willingness to tear up the GFA for perceived political gain.
It will take much more than nudging up defence spending for johnson to rise in Biden's estimation.
I think my often stated description of the UK (mainly England) as a faded ex-colonial power of ever-diminishing relevance is accurate
What can the UK can offer to the US which is of any interest other than GCHQ and intelligence gathering capabilities - and easy pickings if/when trade negotiations start?
Wallsend compared to Ashington
When I go up north I often take my road bike and do what I call the northumbrian post-industrial shithole ride. Takes in all the sights such as Shiremoor, Whitley Bay, Seaton Sluice, Blyth, Newbiggin, Cambois, Lynemouth, Amble, Ashington, Bedlington then back to Camperdown. It's riding through a flat-capped thatcherite dystopian timewarp 🙂
Newbiggin in particular is very depressing, which has a very topical statue of a couple looking out over the sea towards Europe. If there's a more ironic piece of public art in the UK I'd be very suprised..
willingness to tear up the GFA
Sorry to be picky, the EU are as much complicit in this as the UK thats why we have an Irish sea border. The EU has also chosen to ignore the GFA in these terms.
He could have deleted it. I saw it in the news at the time and he never denied it. He certainly said it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/dominic-raab-dover-calais-brexit-uk-france
Dougie dogg - not at all. the EU have strongly defended it. The GFA says nothing about NI / Uk borders only about NI / republic