We’ve gone from leading things and being instrumental in making the rules to forcing business abroad and rendering our market almost non-viable.
It won't just be medical tech that is free to make its own sovereign laws.
Brexit: ‘I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat’
I think this may actually be an example of a successful outcome of Brexit for some leave voters. A wee kick in the knackers for the comfortably off and middle classes.
Brexit: ‘I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat’
I think this may actually be an example of a successful outcome of Brexit for some leave voters. A wee kick in the knackers for the comfortably off and middle classes.
WTF?! how about turn that anger at the mega wealthy, £200 isn't cheap, but neither is it a particularly outrageous amount to pay.
WTF?! how about turn that anger at the mega wealthy, £200 isn’t cheap, but neither is it a particularly outrageous amount to pay.
spending £20 on a primark sweetshop special that’ll last a couple of weeks is good, spending a bit more, that hopefully was made in better conditions and is more durable is bad....
I
nickjb Free Member
What model of bike do you have? Or is that different?
Some serious missing of the point going on. 52% voted to leave. It was pretty obvious that leaving would make thing worse for people at the bottom so why did they do it? I don't think they were all disaster capitalists. There will be quite a few racists in there but what about the rest? If you don't think it was a protest vote, what was it? They even voted for Boris FFS rather than an actual left wing Labour. I can't say I fully understand but that "let them eat cake" attitude above does show there is an issue that we probably need to do something about (although it is hard when they keep voting against it).
Almost forgot, I have an On One 456
Nissan - Brexit deal is positive
"Chief operating officer Ashwani Gupta said the deal gives Nissan the chance to "redefine the industry" and described new customs procedures resulting from Brexit as "peanuts".
So not all bad then. And according to many on here the plant was dead in the water with or without a trade deal.
it is as other statements have made absolutely clear and as the reality is
Remember Johnson begging manufacturers to give him some good news? this is the result.
So not all bad then
I'm really pleased for the folk who work at the plant that their livelihoods are safe, it must be a massive relief for them. and don't forget, whatever Nissan agreed with the government under May was probably a big chunk of that. But that doesn't mean shit all for the folk who rely on FoM for their income though, and who're finding the hard way that their govt has just ****ed them...
what was it?
they were duped and lied to by people pandering to their petty xenophobia and delusions of empire
If you don’t think it was a protest vote, what was it?
Don't underestimate the huge numbers of folk who's reasoning for leaving the EU doesn't extend beyond "We didn't fight 2 wars to be ruled over by a bunch of foreigners" It's the most consistent "reason" I've heard from the brexiteers I've spoken with, regardless of age.
Remember Johnson begging manufacturers to give him some good news? this is the result.
That’s what £60m buys 🙂
So not all bad then
Brexit it in a nutshell.
After five years and countless billions we've gone from 'best thing ever' to 'not all bad then.' It's like finding a surprise M&M in your cat's litter tray.
Honda not leaving the UK would be better result tbh,
now we’ve got this fantastic environment where businesses can thrive without bounds, you’d think they’d want to stay.
Honda not leaving the UK would be better result tbh,
General feeling is the writing was on the wall for Honda UK regardless of Brexit. You need a critical mass of volume to make it worth their while building here rather than in Japan - their sales didn't support this and were getting worse.
The reasons for both the Brexit snd Tory vote had been discussed and defined at length on various threads.
That 51% is closer to Trumps base in reasoning and thinking capability than many will admit.
As i have said before i am from the Redwall communities and have family and friends in these places. I have been shocked and disappointed by the opinions and actions of many of these folk i know (it was not so much a protest vote as a we dont care vote)
I think what really rattled me was the almost non existence of even the slightest grasp of how our economy actually worked.
Anyway here is the bones of a recent conversation with some redwall family, i asked now that brexit is a shitshow, hhe Torys cant manage Covid, your local MP (Blyth) voted against feeding kids, protecting the NHS and taking ,£20 a week from you how is that going? The response was not what i expected it wad basically well those lot with money (which bizzaley includes me) are suffering more ... well i dont want to **** on your chips but actually ghey aren't and the further you go up the tree the more they are prospering.
There is a real sense of unhappiness about others "doing well" and it matters not how hard theh have worked/educated themselves to achievd this.
I have come to realise with some sadness that these people have not been left behind but in many cases they have chosen to stay behind and complain, i have said before the self entitlement among these members of my family is quite something. Many of them struggle to hold an articulate conversation on any subject, they actively stop their kids going into any form of further education- its a self supporting perpetual downward spiral. I have tried to get various of their kids into FE but the lure of getting pissed, staying upallnight on x box and drinking white lighting is too much, then i have their mother telling me there are no decent jobs? When i point out Aldi pay assistant store management £30 to 40k a year just down the road (trust me 40k goes some distance in Ashington) she says well you need a degree for those types of jobs (you dont) but no shit sherlock you do neec an education, be able to strinv a sentence together and turn up on time.
There is little doubt in the North East of England the change in the demographic in working class communities is huge, if i go back 50 years these places contained a large group of people with broadly similar income and opportunities. I was the first person in my family to attend University (age 30) the next ones in my family to go to university were my kids. My parents could not understand why i wanted to even go to Uni.
The point i am trying to make (badly) is that i think brexit, Tory gov votes etc were not just down to just percived and real lack of propspects but also that in many of these communities some people had done well and the rest wanted that without working for it.
Please note this is not the Northern version of Britannia unchained - non of these folks are lazy they will literally dig ditches for little money, its just they completely and utterly fail to grasp the value of education and self investment added to a bit of the green eyed monster for those that do.
I remain a socialist (god knows how)
Honda demise was made more likely by the EU / Japan trade deal if i recall discussion at the time. And made worse partly because our exit from the EU meant we were not able to influence that deal.
However good the Nissan news is, comes as Vauxhall put Ellesmere Port at risk, brexit related weakness of GBP and rules of origin part of the problem.
Brexit doesn't seem yet to be a net gain for automotive sector.
That Nissan article on Sky is corporate bollocks. The man contradicts himself throughout. The sum of the good news is that due to rules of origin Nissan will be forced to make batteries in the UK (which is an extra cost) because if they didn't their cars would be hit by tarifs on export to Europe. All that he says about not being worried by a bit more paperwork to send cars tarif free to Europe (so long as they conform to rules of origin) is equally true for any European manufacturer sending cars to the UK, that includes the competing models.
If the UK plant tries to benefit from cheper imorts from the groups factories in the rest of the world as he says it gets into trouble with rules of origin so there's a limit to that. Currently 60% (Nissan) - 75% of the parts used by UK car makers come from outside the UK and Nissan needs to hit 55% UK content. That's a huge problem especially for EVs where the most valuable bit of the vehicle is the Asian made Battery.
In fact its so much of a problem that even at the negotiation stage Renault Nissan started asking for help in 2017:
The rules of origin is a major headache for Sunderland and until its fixed the only cars that can be sold profitably are those sold in the domestic market.
Brexit doesn’t seem yet to be a net gain for automotive sector.
Reading that Nissan news story I can't actually make out why brexit is a bonus to them? Agreement is just equal to what was possible pre brexit surely 🤔
Edit-edukator has educated 👍
It’s not a bonus, it’s just a loss that’s been avoided… and very welcome it is too.
Is the Nissan battery factory the same one that was going to be built in Wales, but has just been cancelled?
The Nissan battery factory partnership is separate to the proposed British Volt Gigafactory in Wales.
British Volt have now decided to build it in Blythe - just up the road from Nissan. That one is a game changer for the area north of the Tyne - it should see rejuvenation of the port in Blythe and have enough economy of scale to ensure Nissan's Sunderland plant remains cost competitive for finished goods.
Siemens is a partner in the BritishVolt factory at Blythe:
This guy voted for leaving.
he is brutally honest on how he was lied to.
Good news RE: Sunderland
Its really not Dougiedogg. Its "news not quite as bad as it might have been given a huge positive spin". Read edukators post
From Glasgow. Live in a long term Tory seat in Yorkshire. Work in a (still) red wall seat - just and I did talk at least one person into voting red.
Father was a Fabian - introduced Robin Cook to the Fabians - and he and my mother were the first generation of university folk in either family. I’m second. So I have a different but related backstory to Oldmanmtb.
He is correct beyond belief (absolutely spot on). There are well paid jobs in Northern England - I have one - and there would be a sight more if folk trained as craftsmen not labourers, learned to work with their brains as well as their brawn.
I’m an engineer (ok was an engineer really). I ran graduate engineering recruitment for our company throughout the north east and Yorkshire. We weren’t employing Greeks and Poles and folk from lots of other places because were disliked the natives. We were doing it because we couldn’t get skilled thinkers locally in the quantities we needed.
Even the folk who had a degree frequently seemed to think that parroting back the facts they’d been told by their lecturers was enough. It’s not. Understand it, play with it, think.
The 55% thing. Is it by parts value? Or sum total of parts (ie. % of total number of constituent parts?)
The biggest value component of electric vehicles is the battery and they have much fewer constituent parts.
I also can't read/understand much of Edukators post as the links are to french papers, which I cannot read.
Every time I deal with Renault Nissan management they seem to be based in Paris...
I appreciate that will only be the European end of the operation.
I also can’t read/understand much of Edukators post as the links are to french papers, which I cannot read.
Google translate not work for you?
@iolo - I was just about to post that. It just goes to show how very little people knew/were told and how much they were lied to.
Edukator is misinformed
All of the models built at Sunderland already meet rules of origin so apart from the customs costs it's business as usual and its true for a company Nissans size the customs cost is peanuts.
The exception is the 62KW version of Leaf and I think its encouraging that rather than cancel that model they have decided to invest in making the 62KW battery locally. This can only be a good thing for future models too.
Its important to note that the battery plant is actually owned by AESC as Nissan sold its battery businesses. Current 62KW batteries are made in the AESC plants attached to the Nissan plant in Japan and USA.
The rules or origin is based on value.
Don’t underestimate the huge numbers of folk who’s reasoning for leaving the EU doesn’t extend beyond “We didn’t fight 2 wars to be ruled over by a bunch of foreigners” It’s the most consistent “reason” I’ve heard from the brexiteers I’ve spoken with, regardless of age.
Its saddening on so many levels.
Please note this is not the Northern version of Britannia unchained – non of these folks are lazy they will literally dig ditches for little money, its just they completely and utterly fail to grasp the value of education and self investment added to a bit of the green eyed monster for those that do.
Perhaps I misunderstand, but it sounds exactly like the northern version of Britannia Unchained.
Low paid low skill jobs with poor prospects, but as long as the little serfs work themselves to death, that will be just dandy for the factory owner. Wouldn't want the slaves to have too much education, they might figure out they're being crapped on. Just enough education to perform. If that. Benefits? Don't think so, they'll only buy white lightning and X boxes and avoid work.
The 55% thing. Is it by parts value? Or sum total of parts (ie. % of total number of constituent parts?)
The biggest value component of electric vehicles is the battery and they have much fewer constituent parts.
I also can’t read/understand much of Edukators post as the links are to french papers, which I cannot read.
Value is calculated (in most cases) as literal cost of parts inward against what is effectively the value on your customs declaration on the way back out again (Known as the Ex Works price). So if you make something and sell it for £10000, if you have a 50% tolerance you're allowed to have spent £5000 on foreign bits. In some products that would be enough to be entirely sourced overseas, but then you run into the rules on doing sufficient processing in the UK.
For cars its more complex though, actually for most things on a global scale. The car doesn't get sold to the punter, it will be built by a subsidiary of the parent. That subsidiary will probably sell it to other country subsidiaries, who then mark it up for the local market and sell it on to dealers etc, who do the same.
That means the ex-works pricing will be not nearly as high as the car's value, meaning that you have less to play with in terms of £££s spent on overseas parts.
Thanks folks
I've read somewhere that the powertrain of an EV accounts for around 51% of the total cost, is this correct? Not sure about the battery alone though.
What I'm saying is, if the battery pack and chassis for example are wholly produced in the UK does this account for the 55% origin requirement?
"That subsidiary will probably sell it to other country subsidiaries, who then mark it up for the local market and sell it on to dealers etc, who do the same."
True - which is why we'll see greater vertical integration as is already the case with Tesla's operating model.
Last time I had an interest the automotive industry there was a feeling among industry analysts that there wasn't a need for more than five manufacturing centres world wide. This was seen as a long term threat to the UK industry. That was about 15 years ago so things may have changed since. If not, Brexit may be speeding up the inevitable.
What a great deal...
British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations, as much as they would have done under a no-deal Brexit, the tax office admitted yesterday.
Jim Harra, the chief executive of HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), told MPs that the number of customs forms needed to trade with the EU under the Brexit deal “is not materially different from a no-deal situation”.
It’s not a bonus, it’s just a loss that’s been avoided… and very welcome it is too.
Well said.
The point i am trying to make (badly) is that i think brexit, Tory gov votes etc were not just down to just percived and real lack of propspects but also that in many of these communities some people had done well and the rest wanted that without working for it.
Coming from just down the road from you (Burradon/Camperdown), I agree with most of what you say about the north east. Seems we have followed similar paths as I was also the first in my famiily to go to uni. What I would add though is that in these areas people are fiercely proud, but not as some would assume of the working class culture and mutual support it engenders, or the jingoistic national identity that their brexit votes would suggest (talk to anyone from Newcastle and they'll say they're geordie before english).
They're proud of their work ethic and ability to stand on their own two feet without needing handouts. At least they were, and in many cases for various reasons we all know, they can no longer do that and they are incredibly resentful. Brexit plays to both their sense of independence, and their hatred of anything and anyone who looks like the handwringing liberal elite offering them handouts (The EU, Corbyn, woke lefties, southerners in general).
I don't agree however that they are (all) entitled. There are some yes who wouldn't know a day's work if it bit them on the arse, and probably many more now than there were 30 years ago. Many of my old mates tell me they wish they'd done what I did and paid attention at school so they could get out. When I go back now it's not much different apart from the fact that they are more resigned to their kids never moving up the ladder, and that leads to even more resentment of those better off than they are.
And yes very good news about Nissan. I hope now we'll see an end to the snobbery of some on here hoping people in Sunderland lose their jobs.
Its really not Dougiedogg. Its “news not quite as bad as it might have been given a huge positive spin”. Read edukators post
Edukator is as just as poorly informed as you. Wayniac has it spot-on.
You've been bleating on for months about how the plant is a dead duck regardless. Why not just admit you know **** all about the car industry and have done little more than regurgitate cherry picked "facts" to support your chosen position. We've had 4 years of gloom and uncertainty regarding Nissan and Brexit. Its now there in black and white straight from the horses mouth and you still can't accept this as positive news because it doesn't fit with the brexit = 100% shit-show narrative.
The new rules of origin will force manufacturers to localise supply chains for electrification (that in itself a potential positive) or move. In Nissan's case they've committed themselves to the UK for the foreseeable and have the battery manufacturing capability to support the move to electric.
And just FYI, I'm no fan of Brexit, didn't vote for it and would happily reverse the decision, I'm just sick of reading uninformed crap on here from people clearly desperate for it to be a complete disaster and who would happily see Nissan close to teach leave voters of Sunderland a lesson.
some on here hoping people in Sunderland lose their jobs
Yep, despicable behaviour. Sorry... who did that?
who would happily see Nissan close to teach leave voters of Sunderland a lesson
Who were these people?
Jim Harra, the chief executive of HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), told MPs that the number of customs forms needed to trade with the EU under the Brexit deal “is not materially different from a no-deal situation”.
The correct version of this would surely be that the deal has increased the number of customs forms over a no-deal. You need all the same paperwork whether you send something to the EU or Australia, and then if its a UK product to the EU you also need a certificate of origin and/or EUR-1 declaration.
mdavids - you are so blinded by your ideology that you cannot see this for what it is.
Nissan is dead - and will be history in a few years. That statement is a response to Johnson asking for positive news. Its what you get when folk are bribed.
Nissan has already scaled back production and investment and the idea that the delays causing shutdown are due to covid not brexit is utterly ridiculous
Nissan is dead
Mate, as much as I am anti-Brexit is not possible to say anything with that much certainty. You think you're being emphatic but with that kind of rhetoric you are harming your credibility and making it so very easy for people to dismiss you.
The new rules of origin will force manufacturers to localise supply chains for electrification (that in itself a potential positive)
I think they’re going to need a potential negative as well or the battery won’t work.