where as I think we need to vastly improve our arrangements with the EU (and others) to reduce that mess. We won’t be members again, but there are many ways we can work with the EU, and others, beyond the limited narrow horizons set for us by the incompetents that currently run the country. Visa wavers for musicians is just one easily understood example… but closer cooperation as regards education, trade, travel… it’s all possible… and, ultimately, necessary if want a broad economy and society.
Ah ok. Agree with that. I think we can improve the shit show (e.g join single market) but I think that can be seperated from not holding those responsible to account (the government and those who voted for brexit) - in order to improve things haven't people got to realise it's a shit show?
What trade deal with China? What year is that likely to be signed?
You are right there isn't one
Yes it was me, I wasn’t condoning genocide, or doing trade deals with countries involved in it. I was pointing out how it would hinder the gov when making a possible future trade deal with China.
Surely the only way that the amendment would block a trade deal with China is in the case that a court found China was engaged in genocide. A court is going to be more objective about that than the government, so what was the problem with the amendment?
That it is very likely that China are involved in genocide.
So do you think we should do a trade deal with them?
If anyone thinks the UK has any leverage with the Chinese in a trade deal negotiation, they've got to be kidding:
UK "We'll not sign this trade deal including billions of pounds of investment in our deliberately under-invested critical national infrastructure until you stop the suppression and genocide of the Uighur people"
China "OK, then, bye."
We don't have to have a trade deal with them.
If we're going to shoot ourselves in the foot economicaly I'd rather we do it to make a statement about genocide than about whatever the reason for brexit is.
I get ****ed off by a lot Brexiteers i know (non of whom run businesses or employ anyone) telling me to crack on.
I am not here to sweep up after other peoples stupidity.
I have said this before - the brexiteer folks above say well your doing ok what they dont understand is brexit has stopped me employing at least two grads and i have lost two clients.
Its these odd and ends that slow the economy.
Death by a thousand papercuts.
"Look son, you've smashed the house up, burnt down half the houses in the street, torched the hospital, nicked a bulldozer and driven it through a load of small businesses."
"Well I'm sure you did it because a naughty friend told you that you'd get a lolly pop for doing it. Well you're not getting a lolly pop, but we'll just pretend it wasn't your fault and I'll just imagine you've learnt a lesson."
"What's that? You off out, son? You be careful with those petrol bombs..."
Is that the prodigal son? If he becomes more aware of the result of his actions, and who he should listen to in future, praise him and help him.
Kevin - just to check your reasoning, and I’m not questioning it particularly but “We won’t be members again” - why?
Because UK folks won’t vote for it or because EU types ain’t that stupid?
PS - I am questioning your reasoning in the longer term. Countries are merely things that are useful to people, they come they go, and as the world shrinks, they get bigger. Look at the number of kingdoms there were in England at one time. If not the EU we’ll become part of something very much like it geographically.
Such as, igm? There are geogrpahic constraints that make becoming something very much like it but not the EU somewhat problematic. As for countries coming and going. Compare a cold war map of Europe with a current one. I can see no sign of countries getting bigger.
And no, us Eu types aren't that stupid. It'll take a new generation of UK voters to vote for a party that is neither Labour nor Conservative, because Europeans have learned that doing business with either of them is just trouble.
Educator - over time, most of Britain will be in some sort of european zone. I was thinking a little longer term than Cold War though. Germany is a fairly recent invention though, as is Italy.
I agree something like the EU but not the EU isn’t likely in the short term due to space constraints if nothing else (😉), but a Northern European entity and a southern one doesn’t sound outlandish.
As for post Cold War, which I hadn’t really been considering, you might see East Germany, Poland et al drifting into an EU that might (hopefully in my view) drift towards closer political union, federalism even, as being not entirely against the continental drift I was considering.
the UK is not wanted in EFta is it? - the bit with Norway in. too big and would unbalance it. the french will veto any UK attempt to rejoin the EU for sure. Far too much trouble.
UK will be no more soon anyway and become even more isolated as little england
PS - I can understand the not that stupid view. I think I would hold that one too if sat in France.
PPS - empires do tend to collapse. Countries are distinct from empires.
TJ has a point about Britain because it is tending to act like the English empire at the moment - in my jaundiced opinion.
Because UK folks won’t vote for it or because EU types ain’t that stupid?
1) because no UK government would offer it to us
2) because the French won’t let us back in as a member
I agree with your reasoning about the UK being part of a wider Europe, as the EFTA countries are, eventually. But no, even when a majority of the UK public think we should rejoin, it will not happen now. Giving up membership was a one way thing, which is why doing so on a single vote, narrowly won, based on multiple contradictory premises that the winners dumped straight after the vote, wasn’t just foolish, it was a democratic failure.
We will never get back into the EU, they have got rid of "Uncle nob head" and can easily absorb the economic impact. They also got a cracking deal on the way out.
It simplfies their business model, removes a thorn and allows control to be centralised in Northern Europe, make them more attractive to external investment and drives them towards a stronger relationship with Russia, China, Japan and the USA - they also dont have the Hong Kong baggage.
To be blunt its almost perfect from an EU perspective.
even when a majority of the UK public think we should rejoin
Just for info/amusement, from whatukthinks.org
November 2020, 53:47 to rejoin.
It has been bouncing around a bit though.
There’s been a consistent majority who think we were wrong to leave for over two years now. (I’m blaming FFTP for the ridiculous Brexy majority we have)
My god we have ****ed up....
oldmanmtb2 - you might be right there (both your last two posts)
Incidentally, why bigger countries?
Balance of power, traditionally between countries, these days between countries and multinational companies / financial interests - particularly in the days of globalised finance and interweb.
The views stated are my own and not necessarily a reflection of a sane view of the real world (but maybe...)
I can see the rUK moving into a SM/CU relationship with the EU, but no further for a while. With a population uninterested in facts why would the EU want another Hungary onboard?
Brexit the gift that keeps on giving - or not.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/absolute-carnage-eu-hauliers-reject-uk-jobs-over-brexit-rules
Bet you cannot guess what the husband of the MP in this local news report does...
https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/19026193.shellfish-exporters-falmouth-penryn-23m-brexit-fund/
So, we’re already at the subsiding the fishing industry to make up for Brexit stage. Came sooner than even Project Fear warned.
How long will that £23m last? My guess is not very long at all. It sounds a big number but in terms of an industry it's peanuts.
Wasn't the fishing industry loosing £1m per day? £23m should cover until Saturday then.
even when a majority of the UK public think we should rejoin
17 million voted leave. Wonder if that vote was rerun how many would now vote leave. I reckon 5 million tops.
52 million voting adults in the UK.
In further good news, talentless **** can't get work in Europe.
Oh well mate, I still can.
TBH Daltrey's position isn't at all hypocritical. Proper rules for touring artists would have required literally no effort for the government to achieve- it was offered by the EU, with the only requirement being reciprocity, and was rejected for no apparent reason. You can absolutely be pro-brexit and still think that the brexit we've been handed is worse than it had to be, or that specific parts are completely moronic.
And he is, in the end, sticking up for other people- he himself doesn't have to worry about it.
Nahhh.
I think it's funny, he still caveats it and partially blames the EU by attacking Brussels.
He's a prick and got what he voted for, what the **** did he expect to happen when untangling decades and decades of closer economic co-operation.
Following publication of the letter, Daltrey, 76, said: “Every tour, individual actors and musicians should be treated as any other ‘goods’ at the point of entry to the EU with one set of paperwork. Switzerland has borders with five EU countries and trade is electronically frictionless. Why not us?”
Because people aren't goods they're immigrants and Switzerland may as well be in the EU, all of which vote leave hated.
You like The Who don't you Northwind....that's up there with Bono apologism.
Meanwhile.... just in case the EU start to forget what a petty little sh*t of a country we have become... we set out to remind them asap.
Trumpism continues to live on in the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55742664
Trumpism continues to live on in the UK.
Yep, and expect to see the EU & EU27 countries tighten their 'rules' on ALL UK citizens.
But hey, Brexshi**ers don't want to go to France.
The Foreign Office is insisting he and his officials should not have the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention.
It is understood not to want to set a precedent by treating an international body in the same way as a nation state.
What the actual ____! If we’re not careful, this will end up with our official representatives to the UN & NATO having their status reduced.
The £23m for seafood won't go far, and if they include the PM's words in the eligibility (if you didn't fill in your forms properly, that's your fault) then many won't be eligible as a large part of the chaos was caused by people unfamiliar with systems and getting it wrong.
Some might be eligible - such as if your load was caught up when HMRC systems went down last weekend. My view is that the £23M would be better spent on fixing the flaky systems, training on how to use them and resource in the logistics hubs to help people navigate them. Prevent future loses rather than patch a bit and leave systems so bad further losses are inevitable.
The Foreign Office is insisting he and his officials should not have the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention.
It is understood not to want to set a precedent by treating an international body in the same way as a nation state
Its a mixture of pettiness & wanting to keep the animosity up, to boost flagging poll numbers among the gammony base
Meanwhile…. just in case the EU start to forget what a petty little sh*t of a country we have become… we set out to remind them asap.
Brexit as performance art.
They've got nothing. They know it, we know it, on some level Roger Daltry knows it. (At the moment I'm rationalising vocal Brexit supporters as the guys that have spent the season bigging up their team and maybe even put a tasty bet on them. We are now on the Monday morning where they come into the office having watched their team yet again get absolutely dicked and not make it out of the group stages. Their sole contribution to the discussion is, "Well we WERE playing against 12 men" before going back to sulking at their desk. We've just got to hope they get to the "well the coach needs to go, if he can't deliver with that level of talent, then there is no hope" sooner rather than later).
Manufactured anger has proved an effective political tool to distract from actual anger. So we need to occasionally expect a man in a Union Jack suit hammering nails into his scrotum in a desperate hope that they will start trending on the social media dashboard in Number 10.
However, the circle is tightening. People that voted for this are realising immediate consequences. Traditional Tory voters are getting burnt, and I would imagine the newly minted "Red Wall" MPs are particularly feeing the heat. America has an adult back in charge. Actual decisions are going to need to be made by actual leaders.
Hopefully we find some and pay attention to them rather than Union Jack "It's so painful WE ALLLLLL FEEL IT!!! WHHHOOOO" McJackface.
I think many people just didn't get the fact that a market the size of the EU can internalise the loss of the UK fairly easily (German reunification for example) and place orders for stuff internally and also go globally to third countries if they need a better price (after all the UK is now outside)
We will still buy EU stuff because we can get EU stuff outside the EU (Think BMW)
Non of the above is rocket science or complex economics most of it is common sense and the route of least resistance.
The £23m for seafood won’t go far, and if they include the PM’s words in the eligibility (if you didn’t fill in your forms properly, that’s your fault) then many won’t be eligible as a large part of the chaos was caused by people unfamiliar with systems and getting it wrong.
This government is world beating at one thing: making grand headline-grabbing announcements of schemes that nobody actually qualifies for. See: Covid help for the self employed people that covers less than half of self employed people. The prize example being the Covid grants to help people self-isolate when asked to by track and trace. In the North West, 77% of these claims were being rejected.
I expect the Scottish fisherfolk will never see a penny of that supposed £23 million and will all quietly go bust, ignored by a Brexity press
Brexit: 'I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
mean while amazon sorts the VAt for sellers....small business's are going to die.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277
/blockquote>Surprise, dipsticks.
Sorry, nothing useful to add.
Other than this being just another woefully predictable result. Wailing from the hard of thinking about how Brexit just cheesed up their recreational shopping addiction.
I've only gone back a few pages, but in case any of you needed further cheering up.
Medical Devices need a CE mark to be sold in the EU. It's now not possible to get a CE mark without going to an EU notified body, and the overall regulator, the EMA, has moved from London to Amsterdam. Current CE marks roll over until June 2023, but then all devices will need a UKCA (Conformity Assessment) mark to be sold in GB, and a NICA to be sold in NI.
Thing is. They're going for a different set of regulations to that which has been used in the EU for the last few years, roughly based on the MDD rather than the current MDR. So, *every* device will need to be re-certified by 2023 or will have to be taken off sale.
It costs about £100k (ballpark) and months of work to do that for each device - expect to see a lot of companies decide that a market of 60 million doesn't justify it for less popular stuff. NI are particularly screwed, as the UKNI mark isn't the same as CE or UKCA. For a market of a couple of million expect (hope?) to see some emergency legislation as otherwise there will be almost no medical devices available.
Calamitous. We've gone from leading things and being instrumental in making the rules to forcing business abroad and rendering our market almost non-viable.
mean while amazon sorts the VAt for sellers….small business’s are going to die…..
they can always pay the Bezos tax....