During a horrific pandemic the first thing the government absolutely should be doing is reviewing/ changing Labour regulations.😕
I’d keep an eye on health and safety regs,I think the ‘Alf and safety gorn mad’ mob will be happy.
I’ve started reading the Brexit handbook doesn’t take em long to complain about it.
Our kids generation won’t be enjoying payed holidays, maternity pay, sick pay, employers pension contributions, minimum wage or a limit on working hours. This lot are literally chomping at the bit to get rid of the lot.
To be fair, we had worker rights before the EU and we don't need the EU to maintain them.
Perhaps an up side to Brexit might be the re-emergence of the trades union movement as a positive force in the UK. But everyone thinks unions are crap because "winter of discontent" or something, so perhaps not. (Unions - Possibly the Tories' greatest propaganda victory?)
To be fair, we had worker rights before the EU and we don’t need the EU to maintain them
We don't. However having a wider group of countries and politicians to prioritise rights over profit has worked well. I'm not so sure the current Tory government has the same motivations.
Nice interview on R4 this morning with aberdonian fish rep. It was going so well he had my sympathy until he was asked about how he felt about his Brexit vote now. Suddenly it’s not Brexit causing the fish export problems it’s……….
Aye, I heard that too. His reaction to being asked how he felt about his vote for Brexit went now he is suffering the consequences was quite amusing. The presenter pretty much said you've made your bed now lay in it.
To be fair, we had worker rights before the EU and we don’t need the EU to maintain them
They were much lower before the WTD. Thats a simple fact. A year working to qualify for any paid leave was common. We have lower protections from dismissal and redundancy than the eu norm. we had less paid holidays, no protection from being forced to work unsocial hours.
we don’t need the EU to maintain them
Good luck with that.
To be fair, we had worker rights before the EU and we don’t need the EU to maintain them
Unfortunately, the business secretary was one of the authors, along with 4 other members of the present cabinet, of Brittania Unchained, in which they stated
The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.
Too many people in Britain prefer a lie-in to hard work
We must stop bailing out the reckless, avoiding all risk and rewarding laziness.
British workers 'among worst idlers', suggest Tory MPs
So, obviously, we should be completely unconcerned. I'm sure our present employment rights are safe in their hands.
We'll not get into the somewhat interesting situation of their legendarily bone-idle boss's spokesman having to deny yesterday that he likes to go for regular naps during the day. Anyone seen him recently?
I’d keep an eye on health and safety regs,I think the ‘Alf and safety gorn mad’ mob will be happy.
When anyone has ever quoted H&S is bollox to me, I recount how I've worked for companies where we got extra year-end bonus if no one died at work for the previous year...
Too many people in Britain prefer a lie-in to hard work
Starting with the PM, his ministers and MPs it would appear. Why did Michel Barnier run rings around the British negotiators? Because they were lazy ****s who hadn't learned enough about what they were negotiating to have a hope faced with a man who had been working solidly on the same project for four years backed by a team of advisors with specific knowledge on every aspect of the deal.
Even when the deal was presented to parliament nobody took the time and trouble to thoroughly read through and work out the consequences before voting for it and Boris signing it. European heads of state meantime had been briefed on every point of negotiations as negotiations went on and signed with the fall-back of it needing to be ratified by the EU parliament which meant that if it turned out they found some things they didn't like they could still get out of it. As it is I've so far heard no criticism of either the deal or Michel Barnier on this side of the channel.
Lazy, sloppy, reckless, risk taking politicians accusing the hard-working British populace. It ain't the politicians who have placed britain in the top ten global countries for GDP. It's those accused of prefereing a lie in to hard work, because everyone likes a lie in but the vast majority only do it once a week.
Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.
I'm sure I remember reading other stuff about how the arts were essentially worthless and everyone should aspire to be a taxi driver pulling 80 hour weeks for 52 weeks of the year, or making widgets in a factory all day, every day, without even a 15 minute break, because that is satisfying and good for the soul and will MAKE YOU HAPPY.
The book is literally a Victorian Workhouse master's wet dream.
Also, 1984. War is peace, peace is war.
In my first 4 years at work in the 70s i got no.paid leave year 1, a week year 2, 2 weeks year 3 and 3 weeks year 4.
30 days leave in 4 years.
The book is literally a Victorian Workhouse master’s wet dream.
Indeed. And 4 of its authors are now senior cabinet ministers
I had to go through a H&S presentation at a steel plant a few years back, one of the memories, “people died, there were accidents, just one of those things.”
Is that really the world we want to return to? Cutting corners, saving money, it always ends the same way.
Well done NHS, Tory’s have your back.
Just read this, so depressing...
Conservative MPs have ripped out an amendment to the government's trade bill to prevent the NHS being sold off or undermined by the government's trade deals with other countries.
My guess is
1.Removal of the working time directive
2. Removal of holiday pay for zero hours contracts
3. Reduction in self certification days
4. Reduced redundancy pay
5. Reduction in notice periods
6. Introduction of weekly/monthly renewable contracts with no holiday pay.
7. Removal of benefits rights if you leave a job because of your choice
8. Drastic overhaul of unfair dismissal rights
9. Pension age extension acceleration
10. Tax allowance no longer annualised, tax rate starts at day 1 like NI.
This country has a huge problem with productivity which has nothing to do with workers rights (see Germanys productivity) but we must always remember this is a Tory ideological problem, they are programmed to fix problems by taking things away not investing in fixing the structural problem.
So the above, austerity and lots of stealth tax on poor people will be our foreseeable future. At the heart of Britannia unchained is the simple premise that if you put poor people under enough stress (the above Austerity etc) they will work harder, longer and for less - its actually a pretty brutal approach and has no consideration for the human beings on the receiving end.
This is the only approach the Tories xan take from an ideological point, but they will have to boil the frog slowly and winning the next election presents some problems if you are trying to deliver this.
In my first 4 years at work in the 70s i got no.paid leave year 1, a week year 2, 2 weeks year 3 and 3 weeks year 4.
30 days leave in 4 years.
Were you able to work overtime and take unpaid leave?
I currently work 42hrs a week, cannot work overtime and cannot take unpaid leave without a fight with HR.
Don't worry dougiedogg... I'm sure that now we're out of the EU your situation will be improved.
Wrong Dougiedogg apprentices could not work overtime and unpaid leave qas only for bereavements.
Also you can opt out of the working time directive...and i asuume you have statutory holiday entitlement.
If you really believe this government is going to improve your employment rights that is quite an act of faith.
Currently deploying a 4 day working week in my business (30 hours) no reduction in pay. Well actually we are all getting a working from home allowance as we are sacking off the office and splitting the spare cash between all staff.
Wrong Dougiedogg apprentices could not work overtime and unpaid leave qas only for bereavements
I was asking you, about your working conditions in the 70's, I didn't know the answer.
If you really believe this government is going to improve your employment rights that is quite an act of faith.
I didn't say anything with regards to this.
In reference to the article posted above, I read it and didn't really take anything factual from it. However there seems to be a lot of guesswork on here based on it.
What we do know is that the minimum wage (23+) will rise by 2.2% above inflation which was 0.5% for the last year. The furlough sceme is extended to the end of April. Positives
Don’t worry dougiedogg… I’m sure that now we’re out of the EU your situation will be improved.
I'm not convinced that N.I is really out of the EU at all.
I agree about NI still being in the EU.
What's even more bizarre is the government bigging up NI effectively still being in the EU as a massive advantage for its economy
Raising the most obvious of questions...
What’s even more bizarre is the government bigging up NI effectively still being in the EU as a massive advantage for its economy
Raising the most obvious of questions…
Maybe Boris has finally solved the irish question, something even his hero couldn't do.
However there seems to be a lot of guesswork on here based on it.
Government ministers worked together on a book that explains what they hope we're in store for. You can keep ignoring that, and consider those of us pointing out their stated intentions are just "making stuff up" if you want... but we're not... sorry. If only we were. Interesting that you might get two chances to avoid the worst in NI though... you might be able to get an EU passport to ensure you have greater freedoms than rUK workers (do so if you can)... and also workers rights might need to be kept above a minimum floor to ensure continued de facto Single Market access.
Another round of we don't want to reduce standards/rights but we are voting for the power to reduce standards/rights.
KEY POINTS
EU countries
EU countries must ensure that all workers are entitled to:
a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours in every 24;
a rest break in any working day longer than 6 hours;
an uninterrupted 24-hour rest period every 7 days, in addition to the daily 11 hours;
at least 4 weeks paid annual leave;
a maximum average working week of 48 hours, including overtime, over 7 days.
Normal night work should be no more than 8 hours on average in any 24-hour period.
Night workers are entitled to free health checks at regular intervals.
National authoritiesNational authorities may:
use reference periods, ranging from 14 days to 4 months, to calculate weekly rest periods and maximum weekly working time;
exempt managing executives, other senior decision makers, family workers and religious officials from the legislation.
Derogations to certain provisions may also apply for any of the following:
security and surveillance activities requiring a permanent presence to protect people or property;
continuity of service or production in areas such as hospitals, docks, airports, the media and agriculture;
a foreseeable surge of activity (notably agriculture, tourism, postal services, railways, accidents);
derogations agreed in collective agreements between employers and employees.
The legislation does not apply to seafarers; nor does it apply to workers covered by more specific rules (such as mobile workers in the road transport, civil aviation, cross-border railway or inland waterway transport sectors).
EU countries may apply more favourable health and safety provisions if they wish.
When the government, not fiction writers, actually outlines which of the parts listed in bold they are going to deviate from, then I'll beleive you @kelvin
The derogations in EU labour law , provide for a great deal of leeway on the WTD.
not fiction writers
People are summarising the writings of GOVERNMENT MINISTERS for you. By all means ignore them, and go and read up for yourself if you want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained
My god, it’s Project Fear all over again.
I mean, just look how that turned out.... oh...
To be fair, we had worker rights before the EU and we don’t need the EU to maintain them.
The problem with worker's rights is that they incur extra costs to the business. Extra costs make businesses less competitive. The thing about having them at EU level, where most EU countries are doing most trade with each other, is that the regs apply the same to all members which means that you can no longer gain a competitive advantage by reducing worker's rights. This protects the rights of those workers (i.e. us). Outside the bloc, there is no protection for them. UK businesses will lobby to reduce them to improve competitiveness if they are unable to compete with EU businesses because of other factors like say, tariffs or preferential supply arrangements. Or even simple proximity.
Because we have reduced our competitiveness by erecting trade barriers, we DEFINITELY will have to reduce worker's rights - we'll have no choice. Otherwise we'll just lose the businesses altogether.
The same goes for environmental regs, by the way. This is one of the main reasons I was and still am pro-EU. It helps to stop businesses taking the things we need away from us.
People are summarising the writings of GOVERNMENT MINISTERS for you. By all means ignore them, and go and read up for yourself if you want.
Yep in lieu of the government actually telling us the great Brexit plan we have to go by what the ministers believe in (which they helpfully wrote a book about their thoughts and desires)and watch their actions.
Of course, you can also look at their red lines in the FTA negotiations, and the legislation they are putting on the books... this government is not hiding their intentions as regards food standards, workers rights, environmental protections... if you choose to only listen to their one line soundbites claiming to maintain standards for the rolling news, rather than read about what they are actually doing, and what they have said they want to ultimately achieve... that's on you...
The same principle applies to all politicians... ignore what they say, pay close attention to what they do
We've had many lofty statements about them not undermining workers rights, environmental protections, food standards, access to the NHS for private healthcare companies.
However, when asked to put these intentions into legislation they have consistently refused to do so. Then, yesterday, they did this
https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1351641059047186434?s=20
So if you still believe what they say then I have some magic beans you may be interested in at a very reasonable price
The same principle applies to all politicians… ignore what they say, pay close attention to what they do
We’ve had many lofty statements about them not undermining workers rights, environmental protections, food standards, access to the NHS for private healthcare companies.
However, when asked to put these intentions into legislation they have consistently refused to do so. Then, yesterday, they did this
Yes, you read that right. Tonight the govt voted against amendments to protect our NHS, uphold food standards, protect our environment, maintain workers' rights & block trade deals with countries that commit genocide.
Another shameful day for Tory MPs after last night's debacle. https://t.co/fz0CvyJtjl
— Angela Rayner 😷 (@AngelaRayner) January 19, 2021
So if you still believe what they say then I have some magic beans you may be interested in at a very reasonable price
So they refused to sign an amendment which would rule out trade deals with China? Am I understanding that correctly?
I'm not sure any country would vote to rule out trade deals with china.
So they refused to sign an amendment which would rule out trade deals with China? Am I understanding that correctly?
That's your interpretation of that?
To be fair the “don’t do trade deals with genociders” one would have been close to the wind on China. Different from don’t trade with Chinese businesses, and not as I understand it the only amendment - so a grain of truth in DougieD’s analysis, but not quite right.
I don't have twitter so I googled the content of the tweet binners posted and got this
Genocide is not just concerned with killing. The treatment of Uighurs could be considered genocide.
Agreed, it could be. Not absolutely definite, but definitely could be. Hence close to the wind.
https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1351829105457717249
It looks like you did get fooled again, Roger.
Hence why the gov could not vote to block trade agreements with the likes of China.
The whole genocidal regime thing is a dead cat and it looks like it's done the trick. Like this country has ever given a monkeys about trade deals with genocidal regimes? Saudi Arabia is our biggest arms customer FFS
More importantly, what it has also done has put workers' rights, environmental controls, food standards, and the NHS on the table in any future trade negotiations, but nobody is talking about that.
Hence why the gov could not vote to block trade agreements with the likes of China.
It wouldn’t be the “gov” voting to block anything, it would be parliament reserving the right to block such a trade deal. The government wants to be able to sign any deal, with anyone, even if the UK courts have ruled that the other signatory to the deal is guilty of genocide, without having to get permission form parliament. Because some people see “democracy” as a government ruling by fiat, not discussion and votes by representatives.
Exactly!
Liam Fox and Iain Duncan Smith made it abundantly clear with their speeches in parliament yesterday that they think/know that 'we' have not just 'Taken Back Control' from EU courts and governance, but also from the UK courts and exempted decision making from Parliamentary Sovereignty (oh, the irony!).
'We' being the executive. Remember that in the absence of a written constitution, that is effectively now the case. The executive is now all-powerful and there is no legal way for anyone to constrain its actions
Feel happy with that?
I certainly don't
This is a coup. People need to start realising that
I meant parliament, was wrong when I said gov.
UK courts have ruled that the other signatory to the deal is guilty of genocide,
As discussed the UK courts could rule China to be guilty of genocide, are we to be ruled out of making agreements with them?
The whole genocidal regime thing is a dead cat and it looks like it’s done the trick. Like this country has ever given a monkeys about trade deals with genocidal regimes? Saudi Arabia is our biggest arms customer FFS
More importantly, what it has also done has put workers’ rights, environmental controls, food standards, and the NHS on the table in any future trade negotiations, but nobody is talking about that.
Hi @binners please post up the actual wording of the agreement signed/voted on for us, or a link to it.