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The bloke is a knucklehead made 'good'. Why would anyone give any credence to what he says?
Like Ian Botham - a rural dipstick who had one talent and happened to be in the right place at the right time.
He's full of shit. Botham is full of shit.
Stick to the one thing you are good at lads, and keep your gobs shut in the meantime.
Stick to the one thing you are good at lads,
Is that being a front man for the one of the world's most successful rock groups, or flying 747s, or competing internationally at fencing? Bloody talentless thicko.
#runtothehills, it appears you’ve upset a maiden fan…………
Four F's - first find the f'kin facts...
Gotta say, I'm shocked at Dickinson. I'd no idea, I always thought he was hugely intelligent.
Bloody talentless thicko.
I'm not commenting on Bruce here but rather the logic. To wit, it is quite possible to be a talented thicko.
A lad I went to school with was in the remedial classes in the year below me. After school he went on to become a brickie like all the other 'thickos'. The last time I saw him he'd have been in his early- to mid-40s, and he'd just retired. Who's the thicko now, hm?
Weren't they supposed to have closed the factory by now??
I recall the posts saying...Nissan are leaving etc; also recall saying it would not happen.
At what cost though, what have the government given them to make it happen.
Is that being a front man for the one of the world’s most successful rock groups, or flying 747s, or competing internationally at fencing? Bloody talentless thicko.
It's almost as if it's more complicated than stupid people = Brexit. Although I'd have thought all the highly intelligent remainers on here would've understood that 😉
Is mdavids still hanging around waiting for one of the grownups to make a mistake?
Well, you got your wish. I had no idea Dickinson had any other talents whatsoever. Hope you enjoy your second/third awesome victory of the last five years....
🍆💦
It’s almost as if it’s more complicated than stupid people = Brexit.
On average it is that simple, though. There are exceptions to most rules.
Does anyone know what Dickinson's reasons were?
I don’t know, but it sounds as if this isn’t quite the Brexit he voted for though.
Battery plant story has been circulating for a while now, let’s hope Nissan do come through and announce it this week. Would be very welcome news.
Is mdavids still hanging around waiting for one of the grownups to make a mistake?
Well, you got your wish. I had no idea Dickinson had any other talents whatsoever. Hope you enjoy your second/third awesome victory of the last five years….
🍆💦
Stay classy.
At what cost though, what have the government given them to make it happen.
There were certainly massive tax breaks to secure Nissan at Sunderland back at the beginning, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was more of the same.
Stay classy.
Doubling down on a mistake. I thought the few resident Brexiteers would admire me for it.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I'm not going to 'Brexiteer' standard step three, though, so no threats of violence or suggestions of sexual impropriety with relatives....
Same Chinese group, Envission, has also confirmed an investment in Douai to supply the same group (Renault-Nissan) with batteries:
It’s almost as if it’s more complicated than stupid people = Brexit. Although I’d have thought all the highly intelligent remainers on here would’ve understood that 😉
C'mon Ben, you're better than this. You're generally the voice of reason, you know that's not a majority opinion. That's a lazy shot.
is it really more complex than that tho? I have not seen anything but stupid arguements for brexit.
C’mon Ben, you’re better than this. You’re generally the voice of reason, you know that’s not a majority opinion. That’s a lazy shot.
I'm pointing out the dangers of stereotyping people based on "majority" opinions or "averages". I thought it a fairly good example.
And pertinent to the thread, it's lazy and inaccurate to pin Brexit entirely on simple stupidity.
Is mdavids still hanging around waiting for one of the grownups to make a mistake?
Well, you got your wish. I had no idea Dickinson had any other talents whatsoever. Hope you enjoy your second/third awesome victory of the last five years….
Sorry didn't mean to trigger you. It's just your intellectual superiority shtick wears a bit thin after a while, don't get upset when you get called out on your lack of knowledge
it’s lazy and inaccurate to pin Brexit entirely on simple stupidity.
I agree that it's wrong to stereotype, I think many folks who voted for Brexit (and many of those who promoted it) who are otherwise intelligent people; stupidly thought it would be simple.
There were certainly massive tax breaks to secure Nissan at Sunderland back at the beginning, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if it was more of the same.
And let's take a look at BritishVolt and its Giga Factory, named specifically to extract the maximum amount of money out of British taxpayers...
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/work-blyth-car-battery-gigafactory-20831437
"Prof Greenwood said that other countries had provided up to £750 million in subsidy for each gigafactory"
Brexit, taking money from UK taxpayers and moving it into overseas bank accounts.
Hahaha..... CBI calling on government to relax immigration rules so that businesses have enough skilled labour doing the jobs that your average Brit doesn't want to do.
~1.3 million foreign workers left the UK since 2019. Obviously a combination of covid and brexit, but I doubt many of them are going to want to return given how unwelcoming government policy/requirements are for entry.
Still, at least my little nephews have better job prospects now, assuming they want to work as hospital cleaners or deliveroo riders.
Sorry didn’t mean to trigger you. It’s just your intellectual superiority shtick wears a bit thin after a while, don’t get upset when you get called out on your lack of knowledge
Not upset. I now know a bit more about Bruce Dickinson than I did before, so all good.
He's a talented guy, bet he doesn't lurk around on here, not posting, but looking for a slip up.
Nissan are distancing themselves from the rumours (leaked by the government?)
I agree that it’s wrong to stereotype, I think many folks who voted for Brexit (and many of those who promoted it) who are otherwise intelligent people; stupidly thought it would be simple.
Agree.
A person can be intelligent but not good at weighing up pros/cons well
A person can also be intelligent and racist (even mildly concerning immigration)
A person can be intelligent but their bias based on what they do has prevented them seeing a bigger picture (farmers, fisherman)
I count myself as intelligent and I am not a supporter of the EU and if we were not in the EU I would not have voted to join. The thing is we were in the EU (and for a long time) and even as someone who doesn't like many factors of the EU it made more sense to stay in it.
I count myself as intelligent and I am not a supporter of the EU and if we were not in the EU I would not have voted to join. The thing is we were in the EU (and for a long time) and even as someone who doesn’t like many factors of the EU it made more sense to stay in it.
Agree with all of your post, including the last bit. I wasn't a fan of the EU but it was daft to leave and expect the promised sunlit uplands to be delivered.
If there was a referendum to rejoin I'd have to think carefully at the implications - without all the hard won opt outs we gave away I'm not sure I'd vote to rejoin.
Nissan are distancing themselves from the rumours
The UK gov will need to “invest” in these battery plants to get them built here… but that isn’t because of Brexit, they would have had to do so anyway.
Hopefully the Nissan plant will happen. They won’t announce it ‘till they have the commitments they want from the UK gov though.
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1409780868936355841?s=21
This was yesterday about 1030am, never seen this before
https://twitter.com/ChrisKimberley/status/1409599574625374208?s=19
He’s a talented guy, bet he doesn’t lurk around on here, not posting, but looking for a slip up.
I don't post or read this thread much because what's the point, you could take a 1 page snapshot of it and just copy and paste it over and over again. You think all brexiteers are thick, we get it.
I'm a staunch remainer but I've moved on. It was a big worry and a big part of my life ever since the vote but it's happened and the world hasn't caved in. No point in being bitter about it for the rest of my life.
This was yesterday about 1030am, never seen this before
I used to shop at Aldi before the lockdown began and switched to Sainsburys because of the big wide isles allowing for better distancing.
Week on week some selves have begun to empty and not refilled as often. As in the link above the fruit & veg section in our local Sainsburys is nearly half empty with some items not being available for weeks or probably months. The once once large pet food isle is now only half filled and my dogs favourite brand has become scarce. Last week the toilet paper isle was almost empty.
Linky
This link is from our local rag, a quick google suggest is countrywide.
Also noticed fruit and veg seems to go off quicker?
Last week the toilet paper isle was almost empty.
Shit just got real!
Only commenting yesterday in Waitrose on the distinct lack of stock in many aisles.
Also noticed fruit and veg seems to go off quicker?
Check the eat by dates, I've been saying for a while that they're getting shorter - as it's taking longer to get them on to the 'shelves.
And those folk, such as Kerley & MoreCashThanDash - when you say such things like "I wasn’t a fan of the EU" who are you actually referring to, and what had they done?
Wait until the UKCA marking regulations start in 6 months time, expect prices and selection of everything from electronics to bike parts to get worse as manufacturers/suppliers decide if it's worth the extra expense to supply into the UK and if they do which selection of products to bother with.
the toilet paper isle
Is that the long-awaited GB rebrand?
Regarding empty shelves in Supermarkets.
I'm shunting trailers around the depot for one of the big supermarkets,until Dec 31st we would send 5 or 6 trailers daily to our Northern Ireland stores.Since Jan 1st zero..
We still get double figure amounts of Spanish produce trailers coming in most days so I'm not sure about fresh food shortages,also at this time of the year lots of the fresh stuff is grown in Britain.It will be interesting to see how stock levels change when the British growing season finishes & we need to start importing from Spain.
The shortages are due to a massive lack of HGV artic drivers. Not only can they not get stock from the warehouses to stores there's nothing being brought into the country to stock the warehouses either. Add on the Brexit paperwork and it's a giant mess. The Aldi distribution centre in Cardiff is asking for drivers every day as they only have articulated lorries so can't switch to the smaller rigids and at least get some stock moving.
A person can be intelligent but not good at weighing up pros/cons well
A person can also be intelligent and racist (even mildly concerning immigration)
A person can be intelligent but their bias based on what they do has prevented them seeing a bigger picture (farmers, fisherman)
Fully agree with this, especially the last one. My old job massively skewed people's views on immigration due to a lot of Polish people working in it and their work ethic, made lots of people think that they were pushing down wages and taking jobs over locals. In reality it just wasn't true but unless you looked outside of that bubble it was the prevailing opinion. AFAIK I was the only one out of 50-odd drivers that didn't vote to Leave! Lots of those people are intelligent but live in bubbles of information and social mixing so didn't 'see' the benefits. It was thanks to me interacting with places like here and my more varied social bubble that I saw a different perspective and did my research accordingly. I always start from a position of the middle on any subject anyway but it would have been easy for me to be absorbed into their information bubble.
Not upset.
Certainly doesn't seem so.
Certainly doesn’t seem so.
Well that's just like... your opinion, dude.
Lorry driver shortage: UK government and retailers in emergency talks
the toilet paper isle
Is that the long-awaited GB rebrand?
LOL!
I had some "issues" with the EU over their entirely anti-democratic approach to the Greek debt crisis, and a general feeling that decisions should be taken as locally as possible, but my life has been very negatively impacted by the hard Brexit that was chosen; rejoining would be a no-brainer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/mansion-house-speech-2021-rishi-sunak
As we pursue an independent path outside the European Union, they will guide our economic relationships with other countries and jurisdictions.
That begins with our closest neighbours in Europe.
The UK has an abiding interest in a prosperous and productive Europe.
We have deep shared values and a long history of cooperation. And we will strengthen those ties.
At the same time, as I said in Parliament in November, our ambition had been to reach a comprehensive set of mutual decisions on financial services equivalence.
That has not happened.
In much the same way as 'vaccine roll-out!' is the answer to every Covid question, 'Nissan batteries!' seems to be the answer to this in Brexitheadbangerland, regardless of any facts that are presented.
I had some “issues” with the EU over their entirely anti-democratic approach to the Greek debt crisis, and a general feeling that decisions should be taken as locally as possible, but my life has been very negatively impacted by the hard Brexit that was chosen; rejoining would be a no-brainer.
What was "anti-democratic" about it?
Only asking as the last person who told me he was a committed Leaver because of how the EU had treated Greece never replied to me asking whether he wanted to subsidise the Greeks (so they could retire earlier and pay less tax than us).
And those folk, such as Kerley & MoreCashThanDash – when you say such things like “I wasn’t a fan of the EU” who are you actually referring to, and what had they done?
It is a slow moving monster that over reaches
There is too much of an economic in-balance of the countries within the EU compared to the initial countries
It plays a game of pass the parcel with immigrants
It doesn't want to compromise to meet the changing needs of the countries
Still wouldn't have left though as those things are minor in the big scheme of things.
Still wouldn’t have left though as those things are minor in the big scheme of things.
Yeah those things are on the level of stuff that all governments fail at.
Wot Keeley said plus bý extending democracy with the whole MEP set up the EU actually undermined democracy by introducing the minority effect.
If less than 50% of people are voting in an election (and the figure was far less than that) then you begin to cleave to special interests and open the door for villains like Farage. Quite literally sowing the seeds of your own destruction.
There is too much of an economic in-balance of the countries within the EU compared to the initial countries
But those differences have closed rather than increased which I see as one of the successes of the union - ça tire tous les membres vers le haut.
It plays a game of pass the parcel with immigrants
I remind you that despite starting the Iraq war and destabilising the region resulting in the Syrian refugee crisis the UK never honoured it obligations and promises on refugees and blocked changes to the system. and now it wants to "pass the parcel" on the tiny numbers who made it to the UK:
It doesn’t want to compromise to meet the changing needs of the countries
And rightly so, I was very pleased when Cameron was sent packing. A level playing field is crucial.
It is a slow moving monster that over reaches
Or doesn't reach far enough. I'd like more of a level playing field, a Euro federal reserve with Euro bonds and limits on fiscal dumping within the union. It's moving too slowly on those points IMO.
For a political oraganisation there's remarkably little to be outraged by. People who don't like it "because" have to invent stuff that simply isn't true to criticise. If you're a social democrat with humanist values who believes in justice and social justice you'll have to look hard to find a government that does it better.
"And rightly so, I was very pleased when Cameron was sent packing. A level playing field is crucial"
We're you also pleased that the UK left the union? Because the two things might be connected you know. Whilst you were 'pleased' he was sent packing many of us were worried, because we could see a bit further down the line and where this all might end up.
Considering your penchant for deviating from the lingua franca, I'd ask you what's French for schadenfreude?
Wot Keeley said plus bý extending democracy with the whole MEP set up the EU actually undermined democracy by introducing the minority effect.
Democracy isn't one thing. It's like saying you're undermining a cake my making it a chocolate cake. Democracy is a high level concept, the implementation can vary a lot depending on what you want to achieve.
I remind you that
You should bear in mind that just because someone comments a negative on the EU it does NOT automatically mean that they think the UK's stance is better.
Go back to the original Brexit thread for my reaction to Britian leaving the Union, Inkster. I was well pissed off. However, having seen how the Union is progressing without the UK as a ball and chain to drag along I'm beginning to think Brexit wasn't such a bad thing for the reamining 27. Britain's exit moves Europe left politically and forward collectively.
"Schandenfreude", hier sagt mann "prendre un malin plaisir".
Difficult to take any pleasure in the complications Brexit has added to my existance though the exit deal protected the things most important to me.
In answer to the question "what did the EU ever do for me":
Allowed me to work in four countries with recognition of my qulaifications
Contributed to the healthy and safe conditions I've worked in
Meant that all those jobs will contribute to my pension
Given me acces to affordable health care wherever I've lived and travelled within the EU
Guaranteed my rights and provided a legal framework to defend them
Guaranteed the quality of the water I drink and swim in, the food I eat, the air I breathe...
Allowed border-free travel using the same currency in many countries
Allowed my son to study in two of Europe's most prestigious universities at minimal cost
Allowed my son to work wherever there's work
Allows me to phone anyone anywhere in the EU nad not worry about the cost
And so much more.
Downsides? My red passport, I quite like the colour but apparently it's bad and who am I to argue about colour - I'm colour blind.
Wot Keeley said plus bý extending democracy with the whole MEP set up the EU actually undermined democracy by introducing the minority effect.
Ha ha ha, have you had a look at Westminster. Remind me how democratic it is for a minority party to have a massive majority? See also Holyrood.
Democracy relies on consent of all parties not f*** you by a minority gaming the system.
See also Holyrood.
Eh? How many majority governments have there been here?
Just picking up on the 'imbalance' thing above within the EU. Such imbalances always exist - even WITHIN countries and/or former countries. Look at the former GDR - now embracing AfD far right politics with some gusto. Look at Slovakia - much more far right than the Czech Republic. But the thing is, consensus brings better decisions 99% of the time.
How much better would the outcome have been for Greece if they had been outside the EU? The answer is that the day of reckoning may well have been earlier (and possibly less severe as a result) but the Greek 'state' is a basket case. It never really knuckled under to the requirements of being a responsible EU member state - preferring to kick the can down the road and play brinkmanship games.
Anyway, the Greek thing just shows how indoctrinated many Brexiteers are. When it looked like there would be a generous bailout with few strings attached is was "I don't want to be in the EU, being sucked dry by parasitic states like Greece".
When it became apparent that the big players weren't going to write Greece a blank cheque it became "Look at how dreadfully the mean old EU treated Greece - we would be much better out of it".
Brexiteers don't like 'foreign'. That is all.
Anyone watch ITV news tonight?
Regarding the severe shortage of haulage drivers? Some schools potentially not opening in September as school meals may well not be able to be provided to some? Food suppliers to the supermarkets asking government to bring the army in etc?
Tory answer, pay the drivers more (you need them first before you can pay them more...), we'll also try and train new ones up faster.
Ok.
Project fear of course.
I've a distinct feeling that the IV drip that Covid gave the UK during the pandemic which also delayed Brexit pain is just about to dry up.
It doesn’t want to compromise to meet the changing needs of the countries
Remind me who "it" are?
Amazing that folk still don't understand that the EU is all the representative countries - with the larger ones the ones with the most say - now Germany & France, previously Germany, France & the UK.
But still relies on overall buy-in of pretty much all countries - and I don't see another country wanting to leave, do you?
Remind me how democratic it is for a minority party to have a massive majority? See also Holyrood.
Holyrood is a proportionately elected parliament. % of vote = % of seats
Interesting link to numbers , voter turnout in Euro elections... why was Britain consistently low? The undemocratic argument is a nonsense
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/election-results-2019/en/turnout/
I'll comment that living in a country with PR I like living in a country with PR. First past the post seems currently to throw bad results, and increase dissatisfaction in the populations affected
why was Britain consistently low? The undemocratic argument is a nonsense
Because of the constant anti EU drip feed in the mass media of "something something bendy bananas something immigrants."
Perhaps combined with dissatisfaction with the generally awful FPTP system.
Remind me who “it” are?
Amazing that folk still don’t understand that the EU is all the representative countries – with the larger ones the ones with the most say – now Germany & France, previously Germany, France & the UK.
"It" is clearly the EU as that is what we are discussing!
Fully aware that "It" is all the representative countries thanks. Let's hope the other countries picked better representatives than the UK did...
But still relies on overall buy-in of pretty much all countries – and I don’t see another country wanting to leave, do you?
Yes and that overall buy in process is shit and inflexible. You may not see other countries wanting to leave (they are maybe not as stupid) but I bet many of them would like some changes made but because of the overall buy-in shit that doesn't happen, hence my slow moving comment.
An organisation formed so long ago needs to change to keep current, the EU hasn't done that.
If I had done without it for the last 40 years then I wouldn't be joining it. The problem is I have been part of it and it is therefore far too complex to leave with success.
Allowed me to work in four countries with recognition of my qulaifications
Contributed to the healthy and safe conditions I’ve worked in
Meant that all those jobs will contribute to my pension
Given me acces to affordable health care wherever I’ve lived and travelled within the EU
Guaranteed my rights and provided a legal framework to defend them
Guaranteed the quality of the water I drink and swim in, the food I eat, the air I breathe…
Allowed border-free travel using the same currency in many countries
Allowed my son to study in two of Europe’s most prestigious universities at minimal cost
Allowed my son to work wherever there’s work
Allows me to phone anyone anywhere in the EU nad not worry about the cost
Yes, but what has it ever done for you?
Food suppliers to the supermarkets asking government to bring the army
This is ****ing pathetic.
Food suppliers to the supermarkets asking government to bring the army
How long before the army start embezzling the food supply and officers stop paying their wages and create phantom soldiers?
I mean, if we're going to do the whole 'Failed Tinpot State' thing, we should do it properly.
Yes, but what has it ever done for you?
My first job out of uni was sampling for the bathing water directive, so it provided a job. The job after that was in part enforcing laws derived from EU directives which made people's lives safer.
There's a lot of anti-Eu rhetoric coming from the government and right wing press in Poland.
I was in Poland with relatives last year. Catholics who've stopped going to church because of far right politics. The church backs the government in it's anti-human rights agenda. They've sent us lots of articles about the human rights abuses in Poland. The EU defends the interests of the Polish citizens, the right wing government and right wing press don't like that.
So my relatives are delighted the EU is looking after them where their government is failing them.
Supra-national organisations such as the EU and UN have their uses, look at what what's happening in the state in the area which isn't a member of the EU, Belarus. There but for EU membership goes Poland.
Check out the rulings of the two EU courts in relation to British cases brought while it was a member, do you disagree with any of them?
Fully aware that “It” is all the representative countries thanks. Let’s hope the other countries picked better representatives than the UK did…
Who's fault might that be I wonder.
I bet many of them would like some changes made but because of the overall buy-in shit that doesn’t happen, hence my slow moving comment.
Well, the representatives have just been decimated so the odds of affecting change have improved for everyone bar us.
It's the nature of the beast. You cannot turn a cruise liner at the same rate as a jetski, but I know which I'd rather cross the Atlantic on.
" I’m beginning to think Brexit wasn’t such a bad thing for the reamining 27. Britain’s exit moves Europe left politically and forward collectively."
In the short to medium term I think you're probably right Ed, though once one member jumped ship it was inevitable that there would be a circling of the wagons. I'm not making any predictions.
As for the Poland thing (I have a Polski aunt but she's a bat crap crazy brexoter unfortunately!) You could add to the list Spain, without the EU one of those coups might have been succesfull. Or Ireland, the social transformation in that country within the space of one generation has been stunning and it's pretty obvious why some in Ukraine would like to join.
For the EU I can see that what is happening with with its Eastern members and is occurring at its borders is of much greater importance than its relationship with the UK, not that many here will understand that, until perhaps the shit properly kicks off in Northern Ireland, then the penny might begin to drop as to why the whole European thing began with an idea that common trade arrangements may be a way of dicouraging peoples from going to war with each other.
Liked the list of positives you put out there, though I'd have to ask if you need to have a parliament of 'functionaire' MEP's to deliver those benefits? I'm not saying that MEP's aren't useful or appreciated in other EU states but all they've done for the UK is lined Stanley Johnsons' pockets and given us Nigel Farage (and therefore could be seen as being responsible for delivering Brexit)
In other news, I hear Macron wants the EU to adopt French as the lingua franca, (the Englih adoption of the phrase has to be one of the biggest trolls in history). I think Mandarin probably has a better chance.
Really this boils down to propaganda for the next few years..
Nissan "announcement" of the battery plant with 6500 jobs has cost the UK £80,000 per job bribe, bung, investment. All that cash to a French company.no tax will ever be recovered from that business (other than PAYE which will take 15 years or more yo break even)
Give me £800k and i will create 10 high paid long term jobs, but we all know that wont happen.
I dont know what economic miracle the likes of Rishi is hoping for but its not one i can imagine?
I have said it before on here the tools of the past (oil, gold, deregulation, council housing,) have all gone (except NHS data) and we have insufficient trades, skills and now people which is creating significant short term problems and an economy that has insufficient tax payers V tax takers (benefits pensions)
All the above is a massive structural problem that in some ways presents a bigger challenge than post WW2 Britain.
The question is how long can the Tories keep the smoke and mirrors going? They have nonother tools other than borrowing to prop thecountry and bribe investors. This will come crumbling down driven by inflation, risng interest rates, an ageing population and significant cost increases in food, power, general stuff.
The party is over and many Tories know this.
My revised guestimate for this going wrong is spring 2023 maybe a bit later say Autumn 2023 as this depends on the abilty (brassneck) of the Tories to spend borrowed cash right up to the next election.
I have spent a fair bit of time during covid looking at this and watching what business and more importantly investors are actually doing with their cash and its pretty much all going into "things" that will be needed in a recession (private sector health, NHS support services, Financial Services (pensions insurance) its not going into housing social or otherwise, retail, commercial property, hospitality. The people investing have far more brains and knowledge than me but i known who to watch.
I dont think Covid has actually had a great impact on the above it has however brought lots of the above into focus and demonstrated to the investors that they need to shift their focus.
I am no economic guru but its all in plain sight exposed by covid and Brexit and the Tories desperate lack of initiative.
My gut reaction is that when it happens it will be huge with massive negative equity on private, commercial property and land. Pensions and investments (shares) will suffer equally.
The government buying jobs at £80k each will not stop this it will actually make it worse by driving consumption and inflation.
The government buying jobs at £80k each will not stop this it will actually make it worse by driving consumption and inflation
That’s only the initial down payment, they’ll be back for more 🙂
the penny might begin to drop as to why the whole European thing began with an idea that common trade arrangements may be a way of dicouraging peoples from going to war with each other
The genius of Johnson (or whoever gave him the line to deliver) was to push the “Project Fear say we’ll have World War Three if you vote to Leave, what nonsense” line. Neutralised one of the most important arguments for the EU. Big, slow but with fundamental advantages well beyond (most of us) having the same colour passport.
Anyway, surprisingly, polls are still showing the UK split 50/50… not just on whether Brexit was/is a good idea, but also, against my expectations, whether we should rejoin. Heavily weighted towards the younger generations, of course. So many see straight through Johnson and his “say anything to become King” politics… perhaps quietly accepting the lies he tell about our place in Europe isn’t the way to neutralise his hold on the electorate.
Regarding the severe shortage of haulage drivers?
Employers now reaping the rewards of their short-term approach to the labour supply. If you're not training you're not going to grow. Yes for some employees it will be wasted money but if you pay or treat people poorly you can expect your newly-trained workers to go where they are valued. It's not rocket surgery
All that cash to a French company.no tax will ever be recovered from that business (other than PAYE which will take 15 years or more yo break even)
Well not exactly, a lot of the wage money paid to employees will be spent here and many of the auxilliary businesses that supply the factory will also be British and then also pay people who live here. In fact, if they sell batteries (or cars) to other countries that will probably be sucking money into the UK.
But if you pay or treat people poorly you can expect your newly-trained workers to go where they are valued.
That assumes there's anywhere better to go and / or you've not got people willing to move to you.
Tory answer, pay the drivers more (you need them first before you can pay them more…), we’ll also try and train new ones up faster.
Ok.
Project fear of course.
From me looking for HGV work the pay isn't that bad per hour, where its crap is the hours they expect you to do. There are obviously some really crap jobs available - I see one constantly advertised that's collecting and delivering linen to hotels, £9.80/hr with an average shift if 11 hours staring at 3am with a 6 on, 1 off, 5 on, 2 off shift pattern. Basically the legal maximum they can make you do for the minimum they can pay - but the majority are around the 12/hr mark which is reasonably good. There is a massive backlog on HGV tests though, add in the high cost (minimum is £1800 to go from a car license to
class 2 with a full DCPC card) and it's a big barrier to getting new drivers through.
Employers now reaping the rewards of their short-term approach to the labour supply. If you’re not training you’re not going to grow. Yes for some employees it will be wasted money but if you pay or treat people poorly you can expect your newly-trained workers to go where they are valued. It’s not rocket surgery
This is a massive issue. So many companies are used to drivers funding the training themselves then looking for work, add in the constant supply of Eastern European drivers and they have fully got used to not having to train people up. A lot are also insisting on drivers new to them having at least a year of driving unde their belt too but that is quickly changing as they get more desperate. I've had two companies phone me back this last week who originally rejected my application due to only just passing my test, no solid offers yet but they are softening on the issue.
where its crap is the hours they expect you to do
You ain’t seen nothing yet.
Current restrictions on working hours for drivers have no chance of surviving Brexit.
molgrips
Full MemberWell not exactly, a lot of the wage money paid to employees will be spent here and many of the auxilliary businesses that supply the factory will also be British and then also pay people who live here. In fact, if they sell batteries (or cars) to other countries that will probably be sucking money into the UK.
Sure, but it's 2021, we've spent decades setting things up so that money flows to the top and the actual value-adding part of the company- the factory and the people making stuff- is getting as little as possible. So yeah the taxes paid by the few people who can't dodge paying any tax is a cash flow but it's nothing to get excited about. If we- the country- aren't getting a slice of the actual profits then we're losing out. In fact everyone's losing out, because the more we fight over these scraps and declare them to be some sort of big win, the easier it is for the companies to reduce the amount they actually fork out.
Current restrictions on working hours for drivers have no chance of surviving Brexit.
They can't touch anything to do with tachograph limits, which are more strict than WTD (which almost every company makes you waive anyway), If they do then no driver from the UK will be able to drive on the continent as you have to be able to prove compliance with the EU rules for the last 28 days (a tacho card holds 30 days of data). That means pretty much zero deliveries leaving our shores as the ferry and Eurotunnel are not set up for anything than the traction unit and trailer going as one unit.