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Stayt and Munchetty set for the naughty step/rubbish bin? Another nail in the BBC coffin. Etc.
If only they hadn't taken away our freedom of movement...
Simon Heffer just wrote in the Telegraph:
Are we ‘there’ yet? Can’t tell right now if the Telegraph is the Rochdale Herald or 1930’s-era Daily Mail.
Let’s check Simon Heffer’s reckoning:
Yep, definitely not enough white middle aged people there. I wonder who he could mean? Oh.
@salad_dodger how else would they have stopped the people leaving. I still think remainers should have been given the option to keep their EU passports as long as they left the UK and stayed gone. Some kind of amnesty deal with EU countries.
Then there is this scandal from our racist government
this man should have been working to reduce the pandemic. He had the skills, he was offered the job, Westminster refused him a visa and he is going to be deported. utterly scandalous and simply racist
I still think remainers should have been given the option to keep their EU passports as long as they left the UK and stayed gone. Some kind of amnesty deal with EU countries.
Well as per all Brexit U.K. half assed U.K. deals they didn’t .
If you’d actually voted by your feet before Brexit day you got the right to reside/work in a host country not the full Kahuna of being able to reside/work in any of them.
The stench of Brexit stills lives with you until you have enough years to get your host countries passport.
Everything about that case stinks TJ. Utterly depressing. Britain is sliding into something very troubling.
The stench of Brexit stills lives with you
It will stay with all of us for a very long time.
The shame and ridicule this has brought upon us internationally will take a lifetime to erase. Even if we start acting like grownups right now.
Everything about that case stinks TJ. Utterly depressing. Britain is sliding into something very troubling.
Very much so.
The stench of Brexit stills lives with you until you have enough years to get your host countries passport.
Sweden has been good to UK migrants (or as my friends here call Remainers: "political refugees"). They said that, as long as you were in the country at the time Brexit happened (with a job or the means to support yourself), then you could apply for residency and, after the qualifying number of years, citizenship. No work visa etc in the meantime.
Today I am driving to the next city over to have my photo taken for my residency permit and, next month, I hope to be able to apply for citizenship here. I left because I wanted to and, luckily, I could. It cost me a lot, emotionally and physically, but I have zero regrets. Ok, maybe one or two.
Everything about that case stinks TJ. Utterly depressing. Britain is sliding into something very troubling.
England not Britain - the two are not synonyms
*runs for the hills *
‘anyone who didn’t vote Brexit doesn’t want the best for This Country and they should **** off to Europe
The results would be hilarious! Half the country and nearly all the well educated affluent professionals.
It’s a rich man’s world
[ contains some lovely donkeys to soften the message a bit, thankfully ]
https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/1374255999360626688?s=21
Is this the new remainer line, that anyone who is against brexit should leave on a point of principle?
No Daz, that’s a syllogism you’ve created. And one which doesn’t stand up.
No Daz, that’s a syllogism you’ve created. And one which doesn’t stand up.
Par for the course.
Daz is the brexitiest remainer I know.
Still needs addressing, honestly. Johnson & Gove picked one option to “get Brexit done”, but they now need to admit/explain it to the public, and put the work in. The government can’t just pretend the border checks aren’t going to be there.
https://twitter.com/emporersnewc/status/1367478313074188291?s=21
Last week there was a minister on Nihal on Radio 5 taking questions. Said EU wouldn't enforce immigration rules with UK nationals (but we would with EU national). "They need us more than we need them".
Just WTF.
I assume your travel insurance would no longer be valid if you overstay your visa among a million other but but buts.
Daz is the brexitiest remainer I know.
I'm neither to be honest. I just don't attach much importance to being a citizen of either the EU or the UK. All of you ranting about English nationalism but then looking at the EU as if it's some utopian heaven are not much different to the brexiters you say you despise. You're still identifying yourselves as part of a tribe based on who governs you, the only thing that differs is where the borders are drawn and who the leaders are. Personally I just get on with my life without worrying much about whether I'm English, British or European because I have no control over that. I'd rather we were still in the EU, because it has some benefits I'd like to take advantage of, which is mostly being able to move abroad some day and my kids having the option to work in Europe if they want, but outside of that it makes little difference.
looking at the EU as if it’s some utopian heaven
Stop making stuff up.
the only thing that differs is where the borders are drawn
And how we treat people just because they happen to cross those arbitrary borders.
but outside of that it makes little difference.
To you, maybe.
Tell that to the various food exporters, hauliers and other business owners presently looking at bankruptcy due to all the post-Brexit paperwork, and their employees about to lose their incomes.
I think they might want to correct you on that statement
You’re still identifying yourselves as part of a tribe based on who governs you
It's not quite that simple. It's belonging to a tribe based on certain key values - anti-nationalism and co-operation rather than damaging rivalry.
The world is a fantastic place, and many of us want to feel close to other countries, to feel like we belong to an international community. We identify with the community, not the EU government. The UK is acting like the person at the restaurant who refuses to let the bill be split equally, or the person at the pub who only ever buys their own drinks and won't accept them from others. It's just shit. THAT is what I am against, it's nothing to do with simple affiliation.
Stop making stuff up.
There wouldn't be much left, though...
But thanks for calling out daz's monumental strawman doggybollocks again.
From my point of view the EU is not some utopian ideal. I do revel in EU leaders making 'our' leaders look stupid in the same way that I would most other moderate leaders doing so.
But we all know the one who is really laughing his tits off is Putin.
We're busy spunking billions on nuclear warheads where we will still have to rent the delivery system and he's done more damage to the UK already with a few Facebook ads and bunging the likes of Farage, Banks and Cummings a few quid.
Shall I write daz's next post for him? Save us the time?
"It's all very well for you middle class elites on a bike forum to go on about cooperation and internationalism but that doesn't help the poor whites of the former Red Wall put food on the table, if you've got nothing* to look forward to then any change is worth voting for".
*Apart from:
Free healthcare at the point of use
A welfare system
Broadband internet
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Tell that to the various food exporters, hauliers and other business owners
We've already covered this. Most of the food exporters etc trade in stuff I'm ideologically opposed to anyway so I'm not worrying too much about them for obvious reasons.
and many of us want to feel close to other countries
I want to feel closer to people, not countries. Where we're going wrong is nationalism itself, not a particular flavour of it. English nationalism, UK nationalism, EU nationalism, it's all the same to me. You are perfectly capable of being closer to peope in France, Germany etc through your own personal relationships with them, rather than through their governments. It really shouldn't make any difference whether you are governed by the same politicians and civil servants.
The UK is acting like the person at the restaurant who refuses to let the bill be split equally
Totally agree, but I don't feel any guilt or association with that just because I live in the UK. What the government and our politicians do has got bugger all to do with me.
You are perfectly capable of being closer to peope in France, Germany etc through your own personal relationships with them, rather than through their governments.
If only there was a way to reduce the barriers that governments put up to keep people apart.
Bundles of red tape and costs deliberately designed to stop you having to work with people from France, Germany etc... https://pbisemployers.campaign.gov.uk
If only there was a way to reduce the barriers that governments put up to keep people apart.
Indeed. I've said many times borders are stupid and should be removed. Like I said, the problem is nationalism itself, and its physical manifestations in the form of borders etc.
We’ve already covered this. Most of the food exporters etc trade in stuff I’m ideologically opposed to anyway so I’m not worrying too much about them for obvious reasons.
Just to clarify, you dont care what happens to person X based on your personal ideology?
Indeed. I’ve said many times borders are stupid and should be removed. Like I said, the problem is nationalism itself, and its physical manifestations in the form of borders etc.
Yet as a UK citizen I now feel like my EU passport has more stupid borders on it, not less. How is being a citizen of one country now somehow better than being a citizen of scores of countries with FOM?
It’s certainly novel hearing someone opposed to the EU on account of it being ‘too nationalistic’. That’s like not supporting Rock against Racism back in 1976 because ‘some rock bands are racist, and anyway, rock music is just another way to steal music from black people...’
We’ve already covered this. Most of the food exporters etc trade in stuff I’m ideologically opposed to anyway so I’m not worrying too much about them for obvious reasons.
The phrase you're looking for is ****'em!
Well as long as all the trees and bunny rabbits are ok....
you dont care what happens to person X based on your personal ideology?
Do I care about fishermen, live exporters and pig farmers? In a word, no. I'd rather they all did other stuff, and if brexit helps with that then that's fine by me.
And what about all the vegetable, fruit and mushroom growers? Spoken to any of them about any of this yet? It's not looking good for them.
^^
Brexit is the choice for veganism and ethical farming. You read it here first. Meanwhile, why does UK law not recognise animals as sentient beings?
*Edit: Wait, am I being trolled by DazH or by The Guardian? Could be both I suppose...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/28/brexit-likely-to-create-a-rise-in-uk-megafarms
Brexit is the choice for veganism and ethical farming. You read it here first.
Nope, not what I said. But you have to look for silver linings where you can find them.
What about the cheesemakers?
Or any manufacturers of dairy products?
Just popped back into this thread for a mo, and yes, you're all still arguing amongst yourselves. As a thread, its become pointless.
What about the cheesemakers?
Or any manufacturers of dairy products?
Do I care about fishermen, live exporters and pig farmers? In a word, no
That's a really dodgy precedent you've set there.
I'm vegan btw.
^
you have to look for silver linings where you can find them.
Chapter 6, Page 142 of ‘Crisis Capitalism’?
“close the borders and start making soap from flesh because the upshot is good news for those clean-looking Nationalists and the nice man at the soap company”. Win-win”.
That’s a really dodgy precedent you’ve set there.
I care as much about pig farmers as I do the jobs of public executioners, manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction, arms traders or other professions which benefit from death and suffering. I don't know why that would be a surprise. I'm not going to celebrate the fact that brexit is the vehicle for their potential demise, but neither am I going to feel any remorse.
What about the cheesemakers?
The same pretty much. Although the difference with cheesemakers is that they could easily turn their skills to making cheese out of plants rather than animal products, and I think many eventually will. Have you seen the massive variety of vegan cheese in your average supermarket?
Have you seen the massive variety of vegan cheese in your average supermarket?
If you think millions of increasingly impoverished and isolated dairy-addicted self-interested Brits are going to start buying and eating expensive blocks of potatorubber or imported artisanal cashew roules rather than the proper cheap dairy products from megafarms that they rely on to feel ‘British’ - then you really aren’t thinking this through.
Soy latte vegan elites are one of the reasons why Brexit happened, remember. Wokecheese = brokecheese for the New Old English Standard.
I am of course being devil’s advocate to a degree, and are right now eating some British Vegan Cheese and Onion crisps (not just to piss off pedants)
https://tenacre-crisps.co.uk/cheese-and-onion
‘Silver linings’ IMO will remain a minority benefit. Increasingly so. That’s what crisis capitalism is.
It's massively improved the last couple of years, probably as a result of the investment from the big supermarkets. Morrison's own brand stuff is better than most. TBH much like coffee, I never was a cheese snob, so as long as it melts and tastes vaguely cheesish I'm happy 🙂
If you think millions of increasingly impoverished
Don't worry I have no expectations or hopes that brexit will inspire anyone to turn vegan. Brexit has nothing to do with veganism.
I care as much about pig farmers as I do the jobs of public executioners, manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction, arms traders or other professions which benefit from death and suffering. I don’t know why that would be a surprise. I’m not going to celebrate the fact that brexit is the vehicle for their potential demise, but neither am I going to feel any remorse.
If you're position was you cared about what happened to those people but want what they do to stop. That would be reasonable. The entirety of your response is clearly a well rehearsed response to justify being no better than anyone else that doesn't care about others for whatever reason they feel is valid.
Did someone mention cheese?
Here's Brexit Brain Of Britain Liz Truss on that very topic.
Edit: Also note how inappropriate the term 'securing a better future'. Hahaha. A better future for me and my mates...
I care as much about pig farmers
I'm a dilettante pig farmer, raising a couple of litters of pigs a year with my pig-club mates. Thank you for your support. (Assumption and all that).
If you’re position was you cared about what happened to those people but want what they do to stop
That is my position. You're being unnecessarily pedantic. To clarify, I don't care if the jobs disappear, but think the people affected should be supported and helped to find new work. Happy now?
Do I care about fishermen, live exporters and pig farmers? In a word, no.
It's not an evil choice, it's just a job for most people. I care about all my fellow humans, even if they do jobs I don't like. Play the ball, not the man.
I know that climate has warmed up a bit, but I hadn't realised it was so bad as we can grow tea. Someone should tell Truss that we have to import the raw materials.
Oh god, another we've never had is so good speech...
How are the Yorkshire Tea plantations effected by our new phytosanitary non-tariff trade barriers with all our neighbouring countries?
In all seriousness, if you're producing vegan food in the UK GB, whether your raw ingredients are grown here or not, your home market has now shrunk considerably, and trading with the rest of Europe has been made much more difficult. Direct selling to consumers outside Great Britain was all but killed off in January for GB food producers.
^ Exporting tea bags to China using tea that was previously imported from 20 places across Africa and India is a very efficient way to pit UK Nationalism against the climate-changing horrors of globalism. Well done Liz Truss. I think. No, I just forgot how to think. BTW she sounds like she’s speaking to a pre-school Nationalist Youth Movement.
We. Aren’t. Disgusting. Not. Like. Them. (Pause). By the way. British. Tea. Is. Now. Being. Sold......
...... To China.
(Rapturous applause)
Totally agree on the apples situation though. But we didn’t need to leave the EU to stop importing our apples. Local cider producer here in Here/Worcs about 10 years ago decided it would be more profitable and easier for him to just import apple juice in bulk from China. He now makes cider full time instead of just a hobby. Stick a local label on it. Brexitastic. All of the flaggage with less of the baggage. Cutting corners? or Getting It Done? Butcher has plastic Union Jacks all over his shop and thick plastic-packaged meat piled in the fridges. Proper British. All the eggs seem to be labelled ‘free range’ yet oddly piled high and priced *cheeeeeep*
Somewhere in China someone named Li Ztruz is making a rousing speech:
Chinese. Apples. Are. Now. Being. Sold...
...To England.
(Rapturous applause)
Both Li and Liz must be congratulating themselves.
it’s just a job for most people
See above.
That is my position. You’re being unnecessarily pedantic. To clarify, I don’t care if the jobs disappear, but think the people affected should be supported and helped to find new work. Happy now?
Happy is a bit of a stretch. But if you dont want people interpreting your position as not caring about a group X you should use words that define that.
Do I care about fishermen, live exporters and pig farmers? In a word, no
Probably isn't up to the task.
Dazh : Do I care about fishermen, live exporters and pig farmers?
Have the courage/balls to say that shit up here in a town entirely supported by the fishing industry and you'll be in a pretty sorry state.
What exactly do you do btw?
Have the courage/balls to say that shit up here in a town entirely supported by the fishing industry and you’ll be in a pretty sorry state.
S'ok I'm more than aware of the propensity of people working in these industries to get a little tetchy, or violent even when someone tells them something they don't want to hear. FWIW I've had plenty of encounters with farmers and their ilk in the past and was never surprised at the violence they were capable of. Anyway, we're off topic 🙂
The tragic post-Brexit flag-shagging continues apace
https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1374760529026240513?s=20
Does the guidance say how many flags should be on show in rooms inside those buildings?
Well I consider your attitude to others a true indictment of your character as a person, not going to bother with anything you post again.
Its been mentioned in another thread t'day but life is too short to appease/appeal to dicks.
Is it time to break out the vegan beers and pass them around?
Does the guidance say how many flags should be on show in rooms inside those buildings?
I believe the present accepted norm is a ratio of 4:1 with your portraits of the queen. So if you have 2 portraits of the queen - which I believe is now a legal minimum requirement for all government ministers - then you need 8 union jacks. All must be on a minimum 6ft pole and in clear view of any cameras at all times
Heres an interesting fact for you: Little Matty Handjobs portrait of the queen was by Damien Hirst and is officially the property of 'the nation', donated by the artist, though its been out on permanent loan to Matty to have as the backdrop to his Zoom/Teams calls
Well I consider your attitude to others a true indictment of your character as a person
Well if you'd seen half of the stuff I've seen people in the meat and dairy industries do you might understand. I try hard not to stereotype but when you've seen a farmer trying to drown one of your mates it leaves a lasting impression. I'll leave it there.
You'd be considerably less grumpy after a steak bake
I’ve known various farmers since I was, well, born.
Never known one to try and drown anyone. What exactly lead to this incident?
Union flag on all Scottish government buildings? - that is not going to fly. Utterly stupid idea.
Never mind.
You’d be considerably less grumpy after a steak bake
For future reference if you ever visit, the “Artisan” bakery in the next village does a decent Vegan Steak Bake
Union flag on all Scottish government buildings? – that is not going to fly. Utterly stupid idea.
I see what you did there
Never known one to try and drown anyone. What exactly lead to this incident?
Here's a hint, were you trying to stop them killing foxes? They tend not to like that that 😉
For future reference if you ever visit, the “Artisan” bakery in the next village does a decent Vegan Steak Bake
The prime purveyors of pastry-based products to a grateful nation themselves now do one, I believe
I haven't tried them yet as I recently discovered that Carrs Pies do deliveries of frozen (very non-vegan) steak bakes which are awesome when heated up, so I filled the freezer up 😀
Hungy now.
So how many animals are murdered via crop farming any way? Down on the arable plains where I live there ain’t much alive as far as can see. I am all for reducing meat consumption (Deleted rant)... but at least it is a change to this thread so maybe I should be thankful.
By the way in Sweden and read the uk news sounds bonkers with the flag stuff, the export chaos, no limits to eu imports but limits to uk exports, the government still being popular and nobody being able to construct a coherent opposition. Is it really that bad and is the uk going to turn into somewhere like Hungary?
Heres an interesting fact for you: Little Matty Handjobs portrait of the queen was by Damien Hirst and is officially the property of ‘the nation’, donated by the artist, though its been out on permanent loan to Matty to have as the backdrop to his Zoom/Teams calls
Art theft too?
Another box ticked off.
Whatever next? A mountain retreat in Scotland called the Benhof?
Nice one DazH. Your comments have made people not only more hungry for mass-produced meat, but also spitefully so.
Take THAT, vegans. Omnom, mmm lovely cheap steak, mmmm, an you see that, vegan? Can you SEE it? My freexer is rammed with nonvegan meat, hahaha etc
On the subject of foxes - how long until proper British bloodsports come back with full approval of a vote and repeal on the ban?
https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/fox-hunting-may-be-legalised-in-the-uk-after-brexit/
As usual I try to see both sides of the fence even if I stand somewhere else. Have worked with farmers who I’ve seen kick living ewes in the head in anger, and mangle limbs in trailer mechanisms (accidentally) and then take the ensuing frustration on the creatures themselves. I’ve also a friend who managed a large abattoir, and he went a bit mad and ended up in the funny hospital for a spell. Some people love the work. Some people can’t handle it. Some people take it no matter how shitty because it pays money. Some people feel absolutely nothing and just see dead eyes, blood, noise and pies.
Since Brexit there will be more of the latter, guaranteed.
I’ve also worked with a compassionate farmer who in his limited spare time organised our local fox-hunt sab group. Great chap.
Doesn’t pay to tar everyone with the same brush/‘divide and conquer’, really? That’s what got us here isn’t it?
Another triumph (and meat-related too)...
And how long until proper British bloodsports come back with full approval of a vote and repeal on the ban?
Depends how long Carrie Symonds is around for. 🙂
The current ban is a load of bollox anyway so makes no difference.
I also think it is outdated.
it's useless
So how many animals are murdered via crop farming any way? Down on the arable plains where I live there ain’t much alive as far as can see. I am all for reducing meat consumption (Deleted rant)… but at least it is a change to this thread so maybe I should be thankful.
Fewer.
In part as you have to grow something to feed to livestock. So you have arable land dedicated to feeding livestock destined for slaughter. As tasty as bacon is, livestock isn’t an efficient way to produce calories for consumption.
On the flip side, I miss Chorizo.
I noticed the Damien Hirst portrait of the Queen in Hancock's office on Newsnight the other night. I also noticed his union flag was placed in the corner of the frame, barely visible.
I wondered what he was trying to say? In a way he was trolling fellow conservatives by conflating tradition (The Queen) with modernity (Hirst) whilst placing the flag in such a way to sow a slight equivocation with regards the flag waving mandate.
The messaging was a little more complex than than the kind of boorish bluntness we see from Boris, Raab and Jenrick etc.
It was almost Blair like. Maybe I'll have to adjust my prediction that Sunak will be the next PM, it looks like Handjob might be throwing his cock in the ring as well. The Incumbents are doubling down hard on the nationalist bullshit but it might come back to haunt them when Brexit bites like an alligator in the autumn. No amount of flag waving will distract from the self evident truth by then.
The trouble with flag waving is that you can keep it up for a bit but soon your arms get tired and by the end or the year, even the most enthusiastic wavers will have returned to dragging their knuckles on the ground. The flag won't be held up very high anymore, it will be still stuck in their palms, languishing in the dirt along with the nation's reputation.
As tasty as bacon is, livestock isn’t an efficient way to produce calories for consumption.
Depends on the land you have innit. But this a) has been done before and b) is a massive tangent.
The flag won’t be held up very high anymore, it will be still stuck in their palms, languishing in the dirt along with the nation’s reputation.
All those files around the world in the foreign offices and trade ministries marked 'Do Not Trust' after Johnson's various disgraceful actions (in delaying having to admit the lie) will be coming back to haunt us.
But...
Nasty forriners and secret remainers behind the scenes sabotaging the motherland will be trotted out again. Yawn.