Yeah, Johnson folded
If that is the case it genuinely vexes me whether I am going to enjoy watching the lying shit getting ripped to shreds by the ERG nutters.
I mean, nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing Johnson reduced (even more) to a waffling, gibbering wreck in front of the loons, but that would mean partially cheering the loons on....
I wonder if Graham Brady is readying the revolver and bottle of scotch for De Pfeffel.
And he's going to be bounced into tightening the restrictions on the Christmas free for all relaxation of covid restrictions over the next couple of days too.
There is one thing he truly excels at, even more than lying*, and that is looking like an utter pillock.
*By this I mean the mere act of mouthing untruths constantly. Not anything sophisticated like actually getting away with it.
More details here, still some movement fishing but its coming
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1339236068177088512
swivel-eyed brexies getting ready to throw their toys out too....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/16/government-masterminding-sell-out-brussels-brexiteers/
From the guy at @ CNN that follows this closely…
https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1339251483766910980?s=21
Who knows… 🤷🏻♂️
Who knows… 🤷🏻♂️
Not even Johnson. And he'll probably change his tune depending on the audience, as usual.
Lying, cowardly shyster.
A proper reporter gives us a complete thread, rather than a one liner…
https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1339236068177088512?s=21
[ read the whole thread - likely current position, and where it might go, very clearly explained ]
I have no idea.
I'll let you into a secret. I'm not sure anyone knows. Least of all our politicians.
I fear we’ll be saying the same thing for months… if not years…
Surely the least worst option for both sides currently would be a 3 or 6 month extension of the talks and maintain the current status quo? Cite (probably reasonably legitimately by Brexit standards) Covid disruption etc I think all but the full on brexit mentalists would agree with that no? (Maybe I'm being naïve?!)
Otherwise we really are going to have empty shelves, full hospitals and national lockdown to savour at once on January 1st.
They need an agreement in principle to do so now… to satisfy both EU & EFTA treaties as well as avoid WTO hassle… I’m still putting a 10% likelihood on this being what happens, later this month. If Johnson wasn’t staring down the extreme end of his party (that put him where he is now) the likelihood would be much higher… buying more time to sort out details (that need time to be sorted out) is the most logical path now. But Johnson didn’t take control of the party, and country, with logic.
Not seen this mentioned yet - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55341970 from which:
While he said it was "extremely likely" that a full deal would be struck "before long", he emphasised that "tough compromises have to be made" on agricultural issues, for example.
'Each side has to get something out of it'
Asked about demands to adapt UK food standards on beef and chicken, as well as reforms to the way the NHS pays for US medicines, Mr Lighthizer said: "These negotiations are ongoing."You know, clearly, the US needs to get additional access to the agricultural market in the UK - that's an important part of it, each side has to get something out of it.
Looks like the bus will need to be bigger to get the farmers under there as well.
US standards, GMO, antibiotics, chlorine washing, etc etc. If you're rich it obviously won't be an issue, high end small scale production will still be around. Mass market, anything goes.
It doesn’t sound good this evening, does it… I’m sticking with 80% likelihood of no deal.
That sounds good to me Kelvin👍 time for real change is sooo close, the people will unite when bubbles get popped👊 like a phoenix from the ashes🦃
It's just too hard to tell now what is negotiation tactics and what is just an attempt to scupper the deal.
Johnson is posturing for his hardliners & hoping for a bit more give from the EU
A US trade deal would see UK farmers undercut, coupled with no deal brexit hitting manufacturing in those ex red wall seats, as exsee says the bubble would pop. And it would be the poorest who get thoroughly shafted as Mogg, Farage etc are laughing all the way to their tax havens...
The people won't be uniting, they will be too busy fighting for scraps
Johnson has an 80 seat majority
Labour will back a deal, no deal is madness & they know it
At worst there are 30-40 headbangers in the tory party
A lot of the tory new red wall MPs are in constituencies who would be hollowed out by a no deal brexit
Johnson will get a deal, with a few concessions he will trumpet it as a great victory
It'll be nothing of the sort, but he can claim job done & start the next round of endless negotiations
Exsee just what sort of community/background are you from? Just asking as my view of the working poor (my extended family and friends) is they are never ever going to man the barricades... or storm parliament. The most radical thing they will do is not vote at the next election.
Many watched (and some were involved,) when the Miners in the North East quite literally had the shit kicked out of them by Maggies finest when they stepped up.
Can anyone make sense of posts from exsee, king of the pointless emoji?
Posts read like they're written by someone who is learning how to communicate - but hasn't (yet) mastered that particular skill.
We are going to get the absolute slimmest wedge of a deal. I think that most of the population genuinely think it's all then done and dusted!
Of course the wrangling with the EU...the US and Lord knows what other countries will go on for years, decades in fact. All the st*t the EU has staff, leverage and experience at fall on our governments shoulders to "handle". What an absolute sh*t fest.
My single hope is that the Tories are absolutely routed in the next GE and that Labour can slowly rebuild a better relationship with the EU. I don't think we will rejoin in my lifetime which I am hugely saddened by.
Anyway, the damage is well and truly done and Labour government or not the UK (whilst it still exists) is going to be much diminished.
i think exsee is saying it's our fault. The squeezed middle that have been trying to up our chances while complaining and probably virtue signalling a bit too, about how badly treated the poorest in society have been / will be by this situation, while not actually doing a lot about it. And that unless there's a seismic event, this won't change.
There's more than a grain of truth there.
Still being a bit of a donald about the way they go about messaging it though.
Excsee is right. There's change coming and some people's lives are about to change.
Who's bubble and how positive or negative that is where I think we differ.
Those who are wealthy enough will do ok from brexit.
All the rest of us are about to see prices rise, standards fall, jobs lost and opportunities lost. For a good few years.
I'm not sure that's the price I wanted to pay so that in a few years we can crow about a recovery from EU membership, poor employment, environmental, food, etc rights and standards.
This thread is like a car crash....i cant stop looking at it even though its thoughly depressing. Any arguing on here shows how "they" got us to this point of hard brexit. Devide and conquer,
I wonder if Graham Brady is readying the revolver and bottle of scotch for De Pfeffel.
The best televised game of Russian roulette ever? A round in every chamber and I bet the dozy **** would still miss...
i think exsee is saying it’s our fault. The squeezed middle that have been trying to up our chances while complaining and probably virtue signalling a bit too, about how badly treated the poorest in society have been / will be by this situation, while not actually doing a lot about it. And that unless there’s a seismic event, this won’t change.
There’s more than a grain of truth there.
What, it's our fault that far too many voted to make their lives even harder?
Not sure who wind me up more, poor Tory voters or entitled pensioners wanting the ladder pulled up (they didn't want to pay their taxes when they worked, and now they expect us to keep them in a decent life while making it harder for us).
while not actually doing a lot about it
Or… while trying to do something about it, but being continually undermined by the retired well off and the struggling low paid joining together to keep old Etonians running the country.
So… what changes would be coming as a result of having No Deal that are going to improve the lives of any of us? If it really is just welcoming “levelling down”… then the horrible truth is that the floor will be lowered for those currently struggling at the bottom… we will all be hit… but as ever… the poorest will feel that hit the most keenly. Who welcomes that?
I hope that all the news about Johnson backing down on standards alignment etc that has been buried over the last few days means that when he announces a trivial ‘win’ on fishing the country can concentrate on fish and think we ‘won’ just long enough to get the deal signed.
Johnson isn’t negotiating with the EU. He asking them nicely to give him something he can shout about and stay quiet about all the stuff he capitulates on while playing along that he’s working hard to protect the UK.
What, it’s our fault that far too many voted to make their lives even harder?
In a way, yes. That's the contention, and I think there's a grain of truth. A lot of 'us' talked a good talk but didn't DO enough* about it and created the situation where 'anything' was seen as better than more of the same. Whether the preferred anything is achievable and whether that was honestly won or gained through lies and broken promises written on buses, is almost moot. 'We' didn't offer something better and DO enough to show that there was an alternative, from our comfy living rooms in mortgage nearly paid off houses. Don't tell me, SHOW ME.
* yes, Kelvin I agree - hard to achieve change in this system where the media is controlled, the opposition is seen is as toxic, the electoral process is skewed. Maybe exsee's right, no amount of 'convincing' by the chattering middle classes can win out against this, and maybe we do need to be sat down in front of this shit sandwich and made to eat every bit before people will believe (or admit) they've been misled.
He's still ****ing annoying though.
It’s just too hard to tell now what is negotiation tactics and what is just an attempt to scupper the deal.
No Deal is the inevitable final destination, I'm afraid. Always was. His backers demand it and are helped along by the useful idiots of the ERG.
All this at the moment is just a charade. He's doing the minimum he can get away with (the story of his life) to make it look like it wasn't going to be a no deal crash out all along. It was though. When it happens on January the 1st and the economy goes into toxic shock, remember that this lot have been planning this for over 20 years.
‘We’ didn’t offer something better and DO enough to show that there was an alternative,
I think we can pin a lot of that on the casual arrogance of David Cameron. In his mind, because the EU seemed like an obviously good idea, he assumed everyone else - or a majority at least - shared his opinion. He didn't think he needed to convince anyonne, so he never even tried.
Never did have his finger on the pulse of the nation, did he? Never had his finger on the pulse of anywhere outside Whitney or Notting Hill, really. He also massively underestimated how loathed he was and how many people would vote against ANYTHING that he represented
Say what you like about Tony Blair but he knew enough about the reality of this country to be adamant there would be no EU referendum while Labour was in power. He knew how it would end. Thats why I think he's allowed to legitimately chip in with comment, despite how much it annoys some people
The 'adults' are due along any moment now...
Sounds like the CBI are begging the EU to not introduce checks and be nice because hey aren’t ready. How much money have these companies given the Tory party over the years? Must really be wondering why they bothered.
In Windsor Davis voice:
The ‘adults’ are due along any moment now…
You make it sound like it's a "specialist club" for the "connoisseur"...
🙂
Maybe exsee’s right, no amount of ‘convincing’ by the chattering middle classes can win out against this, and maybe we do need to be sat down in front of this shit sandwich and made to eat every bit before people will believe (or admit) they’ve been misled.
In our post-truth world I think many will believe the issue is all the EU - if we hadn't been in their EU club for over 40 years, it wouldn't have been an issue, and they wouldn't have to eat the sh*t sandwich.
Without a doubt Matt, The EU will get blamed for everything, while plucky little Britain fights away like some kind of Commando war time comic character.
Some of these nitwits need to be fed some of that shit sandwich, even if they're completely ignorant as to who the chef was.
Mon tae **** Nicola, get us oot of here!!!
It doesn't look like anyone who's business depends on it believes theres going to be a deal, does it?
How the **** did we end up in this mess? With these idiots at the wheel, foot flat to the floor, careering towards the cliff
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1339851685666144258?s=20
Seems a lot of the "issues" with the EU were made up by unelected men* with big ideas being allowed to lobby, finance politics and flood the media with a "different truth".
Essentially perverting democracy.
We've learnt a lot though, and at least in this forum topic there's no unelected men* bullshitting advocating big ideas to ""solve the problem" "once and for all" and "by telling the truth" to "know it alls**".
* Other genders are available.
** As we say goodbye to 2020 and remember lost friends, such as satire, we are sad to learn that irony has also passed away in this most trying of years.
I think it's a capitulation and now Fatboy is stage managing with the help of his client journalists
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1339859909165375489?s=19
I'm a bit bemused by the thought that it was "us" that caused this shitstorm - totally get that people want change, and that that's why we're leaving, but what could "we" have done further? There's a monster out there with money and power and a massive media influence, pouring honey down the ears of the masses it despises to get them to support measures that will do far more damage than good, and that monster is tenacious and very, very hungry. Logic doesn't defeat it, we've seen logic losing for the last five years - so, what else is there?
If there is any shred of decency left in the royals, the wee woman in charge should have this fat bastard strung up for treason.
You're not wrong there.
When she snuffs it, it's going to be hard to say she left it better than how she found it.
@binners - Jesus, that helicopter footage! I hope there isn't any livestock in that queue
Logic doesn’t defeat it, we’ve seen logic losing for the last five years – so, what else is there?
There is no legal way to reverse what has been done. Exsee's forelock-tugging working classe friends will continue to vote for their (and our) doom. So short of armed revolution there will be no real change. He seems to think that no deal might be bad enough to provoke such a revolution.
I think it’s a capitulation and now Fatboy is stage managing with the help of his client journalists
100% this
EU will help too, they did it for May
It'll be a few months before the brexiteers realise they've been had
