[Closed] Breath Tests for Skiers

Ask a loaded question and you'll get the answer you seek.

[i]including police patrols armed with speed guns and breathalysers,[/i]

Bring
it
on

Actually, has anyone watched that American ski patrol program on one of the cable channels? They actually do have ski cops there who do precisely this, chase down speeders and the like and take their ski passes off them. It's hugely annoying.

Genuinely interested as I haven't been skiing abroad for a couple of years and can't say I noticed a problem before.

Not much of a problem IME.

If you look at case law in the countries with ski areas you'll find that the rules/laws they're asking for already exist. Cause an accident on a piste and you can expect similar treatment to if you cause an accident on the road.

Indeed. Not a major problem as yet. From what I gather though, it is a [i]growing[/i] problem in the resorts favoured by the Russian market.

Most people I know or see on the slopes have a nice beer or a glass of wine over lunch, but never ski when pissed. OK, so there's the inevitable day when you get snowed in to your favourite mountain bar and have a feww too many, but then you just bimble slowly down the easy run home!

On the speed issue, it's not the speed that's the problem, more the lack of control.

There's a speed limit on ski resorts? Seems a bit daft except in start-stop areas.

[url= http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Althaus ]A German minister skiing in Austria didn't give way at a piste junction[/url], collided with another tourist who died while putting himself in hospital in a coma. He lost the court case and had to pay about 38 000e. Similar to if someone didn't give way at a roundabout in a car and killed a cyclist.

I really can't see it as a major problem. Poor skiing generally is far more of an issue (stopping in the middle of the piste, sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side, overtaking at high speed on narrow sections) than drink-skiing, though I suppose drinking would only make it worse.

I've been skiing for 25 years now (France, Spain, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Canada) and have never seen an accident caused by drinking.

If you want to stop people skiing whilst drunk stop selling booze in the mountain cafe's.

Nothing about out of control boarders???

[url= http://www.metro.co.uk/news/883199-freeride-skiers-try-riding-down-slopes-of-crushed-rocks-instead-of-snow ]What edge angle is best for this? And how long would it last?[/url]

OK, so there's the inevitable day when you get snowed in to your favourite mountain bar and have a feww too many, but then you just bimble slowly down the easy run home!

Did this a couple of years ago in Les deux Alpes - Dislocated my shoulder 🙁

There's a speed limit on ski resorts? Seems a bit daft except in start-stop areas.

Got my season pass clipped in Canada (2 strikes, yer oot) for speeding in an empty area and this was in the mid 90's.

Anyway these 9 out of 10 Britons, what relationship would they have with an insurance company that obviously would love to see some serious weight in their favour in the event of any litigation and what were the questions asked?[/cynical]

I've been skiing for 25 years now (France, Spain, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, Canada) and have never seen an accident caused by drinking.

Poor skiing in general is far more of a problem than drinking or speed alone in my opinion.

Poor skiing generally is far more of an issue (stopping in the middle of the piste, sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side, [b]overtaking at high speed on narrow sections[/b])

Overtaking at high speed on narrow sections is a perfect example generally "poor skiing"

Although I'm not sure that's what you were meaning 😕

What a load of cobblers. I'd love to see the wording of the [i]"survey"[/i] that produced [i]"more than nine in ten Britons want the rules of the road applied to ski resorts"[/i]!

As above, poor skiing/boarding is much more of an issue than "drink-skiing" or "speeding".

Most people I know or see on the slopes have a nice beer or a glass of wine over lunch, but never ski when pissed

It's pretty common in Austria to spend an afternoon in one of the party ski huttes before riding back to the village. But then it is also pretty common to see people still partying in full ski gear at 3am 😀

Neal, I'm not sure how I could have been clearer that the items I listed were prime examples of poor skiing. Getting pissed and doing any of these would probably make things worse, but the drinking in and of itself is not, IMO, a major issue.

I've never seen a truly pissed person at a mountain bar (other than me at St Anton at 5pm, dancing on a table, then doing the last run to the village at closing time), certainly not at lunchtime. That said, I bet there are any number of over-the-limit skiiers first thing in the morning.....

Nickf, what I was meaning, was that the person who is overtaking at high speed on a narrow section would be at fault.
Not the person who makes a turn left or right and gets hit from behind.

It happens all the time, and the poor skier is the one overtaking, not the one in front.

Is it not a reaction to a perceived problem rather than a real one.

A bit like speeding skiers, I have done a lot of skiing and have rarely seen quick skiers who tend to keep to the edge of a narrow piste take someone out. I see less able skiers intimidated by it but that's a different issue.

I have been taken out a couple of times by people as have my friends. Never has it been by someone smelling or showing the signs of drinking. Just generally by someone who was crap on skis or a board. So Best thing would be to ban learners from the slopes 🙂

Is it not a reaction to a perceived problem rather than a real one.

You mean that it [i]is[/i] a reaction to a perceived problem, right?

I've been Googling for a report I read which stated more skiers/boarders die drivng to the resort than in the mountains. It's going back a bit so perhaps not surprising I can't find it on the Net. One thing I found whilst browsing:

[i]Depuis 1992, le risque
d’avoir un accident sur piste est stable : moins
de 3 accidents pour 1 000 journées de pratique[/i]

Most fatalities off-piste are due to avalanche - though verglas has resulted in a series of accidents in the last week in SW France.

You mean that it is a reaction to a perceived problem, right?

Yes I meant its not a real problem, just a perceived one.

Should proof read before I post 🙂

Noticed the guy commenting: [i]"I got hit three times in Flaine in one holiday and each one wasn't my fault"[/i]

I can't remember the last time someone hit me on my board (other than one of my mates).

If I got hit 3 times in one holiday I think I'd be wondering if I was maybe doing something wrong (e.g. stopping in odd places, not being aware of uphill traffic).

Nickf, what I was meaning, was that the person who is overtaking at high speed on a narrow section would be at fault.
Not the person who makes a turn left or right and gets hit from behind.

It happens all the time, and the poor skier is the one overtaking, not the one in front.

Oh, I see.

You're right, though I'd say that there are as many culpable inexperienced skiiers as there are speedhounds. As a personal example, I was overtaking someone last year, and was going past (safely, under control, no dramas, had shouted an 'On yer left'...all the things you should do). As I drew level, the skiier lurched leftwards and took me out.

Fair to say that both she and I were a bit smacked about. She apologised, took the blame for it, and said she just fanced stopping so she pulled over. Not sure what more I could have done, and just have to chalk it down to bad luck. Still poor behaviour not to have a quick look when you're pulling over to stop though.

Never seen a pissed skier ? I am certain you have and just didn't realise it.

I generally have one or two "big" late lunches for trip, these days I make sure I plan a venue so I can take the lift down or the bus home.

A guy died a few years ago skiing home form the Crazy Kangeroo in St Anton, he hit a building.

It was stil your fault, nickf, and she shouldn't have apologised. As for shouting "on your left", what are the odds of the person understanding you except in the Cairngorms? Even if they speak the same language they may well be deafened with a helmet and earphones given the latest barmy trend to hit my local resort - skiing deaf. You give way to people below you, simple as.

My (skier) mate carries a hip flask full of brandy at all times, to be used as a pep up after a fall. Certainly seems to keep his kids spritely 😀

A guy died a few years ago skiing home form the Crazy Kangeroo in St Anton, he hit a building.

Given the sheer number of pissed skiiers tumbling out of there well after the pistes are shut, the fact that there's only been one death is, I suppose, surprising.

But I maintain my original view - in general, people don't get pissed on the slopes. Those that do don't cause accidents, so far as my own experience goes. And I've never encountered an obviously drunk skiier/boarder, St Anton apres-ski excepted.

nickf

I know what you mean there and it has happened to me too, however......... it is ultimately always the uphill skiers responsibility to ensure a safe overtake.

Edit: As Edukator has already said as I was typing 😳

It was stil your fault, nickf, and she shouldn't have apologised. As for shouting "on your left", what are the odds of the person understanding you except in the Cairngorms? Even if they speak the same language they may well be deafened with a helmet and earphones given the latest barmy trend to hit my local resort - skiing deaf. You give way to people below you, simple as.

(1) I [b]did[/b] give way. I was [b]level[/b] - she just didn't expect me to be there, and turned left. What was I suposed to do, tap her on the shoulder on the off-chance she was going to do something stupid?

(2) I was in France, and shouted in French. I'm not entirely stupide.

I was in France, and shouted in French. I'm not entirely stupide.

You were overtaking, your duty to avoid her, nickf. Inexcusable.

So what were the odds of her being French? Or understanding your attempt at speaking it if she were? Or hearing you at all? Shouting instructions is pointless and demonstrates that you knew you were taking a risk. A bit like people that blow their horn before overtaking cyclists on a narrow road with on-coming traffic.

To me it seems a bit crazy that it could be outlawed to ski fast or ski after having a beer or two.

There is no skiing test you have to pass to allow you to ski anyway so to penalise a potnetially good skier for either of those things, which could still mean they are skiing at a much more controlled level than other skiers seems daft to me.

Its like allowing people to drive on the road without passing their driving test and to try and reduce accidents starting to inflict serve penalties on someone who drives at 80mph on a quiet motorway.

They have safety patrollers (or whatever you want to call them) on the crowded lower runs at Whistler at the end of the day where there is a lot of traffic and bottlenecks (not on any of the runs that you would be using most of the days). Whatever the cause of the dangerous skiing, I think that's a good idea.

Skiing beyond ability levels is the biggest problem (unfortunately, a lot of the guilty parties seem to be British!). Skiing too fast or pissed in crowded areas also increases the risk of serious accident (bimbling down slowly and carefully if you've had a few pints is the only way to do it...)

You were overtaking, your duty to avoid her, nickf. Inexcusable.

Sounds like he made a reasonable attempt to overtake safely to me.

Or are you suggesting that you should [u]never[/u] overtake slower riders on narrow paths, just on the off chance that the randomly decide to pull over and stop without looking?

I think you have to be like that GrahamS.

If you are a reasonably capable skier/boarder it's not too difficult to give someone a wide berth or slip past when they have definitely gone in the other direction. If you can't do that safely at the time, you should just wait and take in the scenery, which is normally quite nice!

Unless youre totally confident you can get past them then no you probably shouldnt.

Saying that I scoot past people all the time so am probable being fairly hypocritical! 😈

it's not too difficult to give someone a wide berth or slip past

But from nickf's description that is exactly what he tried to do, but he got caught out by the skier in front making an unexpected move without looking behind her.

I reckon there is a parallel with driving. In theory if someone drives into the back of you then it is always their fault, but I still check my mirrors before randomly slamming on the brakes. 🙂

you should just wait and take in the scenery, which is normally quite nice!

Thing is though, if you are on one of those flat narrow connecting paths on a board then slowing right down, waiting and taking in the scenery often means you'll be forced to unclip and do the looooooong [i]hike o' shame[/i] till the path gets suitably steeper again.

Thing is though, if you are on one of those flat narrow connecting paths on a board then slowing right down, waiting and taking in the scenery often means you'll be forced to unclip and do the looooooong hike o' shame till the path gets suitably steeper again.

they really should design something that does not require you to do that. Oh hang on wait a minute they have skis 🙂

All skiers should have number plates, insurance, tax, helmet, lights and High vis, just like cyclists.

It is interesting reading this some of the parallels you get on the cyclists on the road debate.

Passing too close, who's actually to blame etc. etc.

they really should design something that does not require you to do that.

Nothing wrong with the design - it's other people going to slowly and getting in the way that's the issue 😀

Unless youre totally confident you can get past them then no you probably shouldnt

I bow to the great ski-gods of STW. Presumably you all whizz down in 1890s kit (rigid singlespeed skis natuarally), overtaking Klammer and Maier on the way, and clearly never having an accident.

Me? I'll stick with having one big crash per week of skiing and mostly avoiding other people.

It's not the same as driving though is it. Skiers/boarders can, and do, turn entirely at random as the whim takes them. There is no 'highway code' other than the uphill skier has responsibilty and don't stop in the middle of the piste.

And yes, the 'hike of shame' is an absolute pain in the ass which is one of the reasons I'm getting the planks back on this year.

I dont get what was wrong with what I just said!?

You wouldnt over take a car unless you were totally confident you could get past them would you!?

Never said I havent had a crash, but you are right about my god-like skiing! 😆

Its all about being in control and concidering the person/persons below you on the slope. Being a boarder (and an ex skier) I see good and bad in both camps. Drinking on the slopes ? no need, start playing when the lifts open, board until 16.30 and then go get pissed at the bottom at the end of a great day.

I once crashed into a ski patrol guy 🙂 he gave me a telling off but pretty sure he was up slope from me prior to crash and I was heading straight towards a ski lift braking he was cutting across the slope, hmm.
Other than that me and a mate had a tumble and a kid few passed behind me while I was on my heel edge, nearly took me out at speed but hey kids eh?

Speed limits? Stupid except maybe "Slow" in lift or start stop areas. My board doesn't have a speedo
Breath test? hmm doesn't sound right in an unlicensed unregulated pass-time, if it's a problem close the mountain bars.
Ski patrols watching out for bad/dangerous skiing absolutely but they already do don't they?

FTR I don't drink on the slopes and I don't really do apres ski, prefer to be sober and clear headed on the first morning lift.

All skiers should have number plates, insurance, tax, helmet, lights and High vis, just like cyclists.

It is interesting reading this some of the parallels you get on the cyclists on the road debate.

Passing too close, who's actually to blame etc. etc.

Yes, hopefully it won't be too long before we have some tedious head-cam footage posted on YouTube of someone's close-shave, numerous 'Skier Down' and 'why are all people with <insert brand here> ski's utter morons' threads appearing on the forum ... or maybe this is actually what it's like on skiingtrackworld.com

Not especially having a go at you chrispo, more that the comments tend to be (as so often on STW) frustratingly black/white. I've got 50+ weeks on skis, I know what I'm doing, and to have the "you were overtaking, it's all your fault" line is a bit galling.

I absolutely know that's the rule, and I was trying to point out that you can do all of that and STILL be involved in a shunt, because a lot of skiiers don't bother to look around before just stopping wherever they fancy. OK, as more experienced skiiers we need to note where people are, but people do unpredictable things!

In the case I mentioned, it was probably a bit of fault on both sides. She didn't see me, I should have stayed a couple of meters further away from her even once alongside. Live and learn, I guess.

Me? I'll stick with having one big crash per week of skiing and mostly avoiding other people.

Are you trolling or are you really that selfish, Nickf?

If I want to ski flat out I either skin up when the lifts stop or get on the first chair of the day. The rest of the time it's the other skiers that dictate my pace and line.

So you think she should have eyes in the back of here head, Nickf?

50+ weeks on skis, most people learn the most basic rule of all and the only really important one on their first day.

If I am overtaking someone it is my responsibility to ensure its safe. I have got it wrong in the past and I have been mortified and apologised. We all make errors of judgement sometimes sometimes we get away with it and sometimes we don't, but we should always own up to the fact we made a mistake.

But we should remember, like mountain biking it is an adventure sport 🙂

And that is exactly the "frustratingly black/white" STW opinion that nickf was complaining about Edukator.

In my (white) opinion it is perfectly possible to be overtaking someone carefully and reasonably, but still get taken out by them doing something unexpected.

The only option is to not overtake, but that is often a terrible option, especially if it means I'm going to be spending the next 20 minutes hiking and causing a hazard to everyone else. 😀

NickF

Anyone can make a mistake and usually it's no big deal and I'm not jumping in with the usual STW 'burn him' over-reaction. Accidents happen 😉

Live and learn, I guess.

Absolutely

Nickf, my only point was that you appeared to blame the person in front for changing direction, and suggested that the person overtaking at speed was being hit by a poor skier (in your first example of poor skiers causing problems)

And that is 100% not the way it is.

It's the uphill skiers responsibility to avoid the downhill skier, there isn't any grey area I'm afraid.

And if you ski alongside someone, at the same pace, and you collide then it could be either person at fault, or 50-50. Which is why that's best avoided.

(if we are counting, I probably have somewhere over 400+ weeks skiing, and a fair amount of those I was teaching. And it the first and most fundamental rule that would be taught)

neal I suspect you (or I) misread nickf's initial post there, he said:

Poor skiing generally is far more of an issue (stopping in the middle of the piste, sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side, overtaking at high speed on narrow sections)

I read that as a list of three examples of poor skiing:

• stopping in the middle of the piste
• sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side
• overtaking at high speed on narrow sections

I [i]think[/i] you read the second and third item as one offence: [i]"sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side overtaking at high speed on narrow sections"[/i]

I blame the punctuation 😀

400+ weeks skiing

WOW - I've just done some quick calculations and I'll be happy if I can tot up that many DAYS in my lifetime!

[b]It's the uphill skiers responsibility to avoid the downhill skier[/b], there isn't any grey area I'm afraid.

100% - if everyone remembered that ski areas would be happier places. We all read it at the bottom of the lifts/on ski passes, so no excuse for ignoring it.

somewhere over 400+ weeks skiing

The's a shed-load of time on skis. I'm hugely jealous!

GrahamS has correctly divined what I was trying (poorly) to say. I try on here with my punctuation, I really do. My apologies for not making myself clearer.

Over 7 years of skiing? Really?

I think you read the second and third item as one offence: "sudden movements left/right when there could be someone to your side overtaking at high speed on narrow sections"

That could well be the case ? reading it again I see how I may have mis read it.

If that's the case, fair enough. My mistake 😳

I was lucky enough to work and play on skis for more than ten years pretty much all year round.

Plus lots of trips before and after that.

It was a happy time, but my knees and lower back are now 75 years old despite the fact that I'm not quite 40

[i]*adds "conflict resolution" to CV*[/i] 😀

Just shows that you CAN have a proper discussion here, where all those concerned can listen to other POV and offer an opinion without it descending into a bitchfest.

Must be all those bloody mtb'ers 😉

Just depends who's involved woody 😉

Woody, have you seen the big ski/snowboard thread? It's one of the finest examples of a "good" thread on here!

I've seen it all, and it's bunk:

1. Collisions can happen when folks pass too close to each other and this is more likely when going at different speeds. That's why if you are a fast skier you rarely have collisions, unless you cause them.

2. The uphill skier has some clue at divining the path of the downhill skier, but not much; whilst the downhill skier has no idea and may not even be aware the other skier is there. The responsibility is [u]always[/u] on the uphill skier to lower their speed and give the downhill skier a very wide berth. See FIS rule #3: [url= http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/insidefis/fisgeneralrules/10fisrules.html ]FIS Rules[/url]

3. It's not a risk-free activity and even the most aware skiers will have an incident eventually.

4. A small amount of booze worsens judgement about ability, slows responses, and is likely to contribute to collisions, just as it does driving. However, I doubt an alcohol ban is enforceable.

nealglover - Member
Just depends who's involved woody

😉 100% again!!!

Woody, have you seen the big ski/snowboard thread?

Obviously need to up my game 😳