[Closed] Brands who used to be good?......

For me, raleigh is a good example of a brand that once had enormous credibility, but has now pretty much lost all of it.

Wasn't that a certain MD's fault? Moved everything from the UK to the far east and a few other bad changes? I saw an interview not so long ago where the bloke was semi-aggressive when questioned on it.

kona

Cove bikes

Hora, the problems started well before that. I will find the link to the recent summary I posted. On Triumph, (and note any list like this always has a tongue in cheek element) I grew up riding my Raleigh bike past the original Triumph works in a small village in the Midlands. It is from those heady days, that I view the company's decline with a hint of nostalgia and sadness!

Russell.

Jo.

Pity isn't it. Raleigh had it all- in the palm of their hands. They would have been bigger than Specialized now if they'd kept the same focus and they'd have a massive loyal older fan club buying for their youth now too.

I STILL would buy my son something Raleigh if they brought out a good product.

Nike

Just seem to make a load of Chav-tastic gear now, do any serious runners actually buy Nike trainers any more?

Oakley have a bit of a dodgy image these days

hora, Specialized are still an amazing brand with amazing bikes and products that work and an amazing after-sales and warranty service.
I won't have a bad word said about them, even with their crappy proprietary parts that seem to be increasingly appearing on their bikes...

Sony

Barbour

Sadly chavs are wearing fake Barbour jackets now

Bit of a hijack, so sorry in advance but here are comments on Raleigh that I posted a few weeks back

teamhurtmore - Member
http://thebikeshow.net/

An interesting account by Hadland and Thurston which actually says a lot about UK manufacturing at the time and why trade can be good!!

1960s merger created a very powerful company that dominated the UK but failed to respond.

Experimented with lots of models - copied Schwinn (didn;t know that) with Chopper but launched too late into target market (US). But this was successful as "toy=bike" in the UK. Suffered with court cases from wheelie accidents etc

[b]Mixed fortunes with spotting trends 1[/b] - early into hybrids but late seeing BMX and MTB

Brand identity increasingly confused - top end racing team combined with choppers and even plastic toys. Very fuzzy, loss of brand identity (dare I say it not focusing on where they had competitive advantage!)

Company became too big, too may competiting parties and eventually part of TI that was too diversified. Very poor product differentiation, lost cycling values and then very poor quality and delivery times.

[b]Mixed fortunes with spotting trends 2[/b] - Japanese produced better quality kit and where more responsive. Critically, they (Shimano) came up with the 'group-set' concept. Attractive, graded, better value, better quality. So choice was buy one high quality set or buy in different bits from poor quality and unreliable Eu suppliers (not my words here, this is a precis!)

1980s lost money consistently but propped up by TI until 1987 when sold off to Derby &Co (?). Initial turnaround but management increasingly distant in both senses (transferred to US and not bike guys).

[b]Mixed fortunes with spotting trends 3 [/b]- couldnt make aluminium bikes (apparently). Death knell came when it became cheaper to buy in complete bikes rather than buying the components themselves (pre-labour!). Clear then that business was unsustainable. End of manufacturing in N'ham which as stated above was a boody blow at the time. From them on everything outsourced.

Pretty sad story - almost a monopoly in 60s, then loss of brand, complacency, lack of focus, falling quality, poor responsiveness, mixed fortunes in responding to market demands, changes of ownership....not a unique story

[edit: all the above is a rushed attempt at precising others' comments. Not nec my views but precised through a biased set of personal lenses !!! ]

I have an old (@ 15 years) Raleigh racing bike. How easy would it be to convert into SS? (another thread)?

It makes pretty sad reading that THM. But your synopsis at the end seems like it could be applied to a pretty substantial chunk of British manufacturing sector from the 60's. It seems a painfully familar tale. And one we seem to have, as a nation, learned absolutely nothing from. 😥

I'm sure there's a politician that can be blamed...

I also now avoid USC as this starts to look more like Sports Direct everytime I pass it. I do wonder how long the likes of Diesel will continue to supply USC now Ashley owns them?

They are the biggest Diesel mens account so not going anywhere fast.
Also for your info Mike Ashley also owns Cruise clothing as well as Van Mildert so becoming hard to avoid dealing with in the Fashion Industry and TBH its good to finally have some prompt payments!

As a side note Primark owned by the same Canadian company that owns Selfridges hence Primark jeans will be sold in Selfridges.

BRANDS are dead long live BRANDS

geologist - Member
Sony

WRONG!

On this occasion Brakes, I don't think you can pin much of it on politicians of either stripe

The blame probably lies, in equal measure, with short-sighted and complacent management, who regarded R&D investment as an optional extra you carried out with any scraps you had left once you'd payed the dividends to the shareholders. I mean... saying you 'can't' make aluminium bikes? Seriously? [i]Can't![/i]

And the rest of the blame is probably the over-powerful unions through the 70's, who thought it was a bloody liberty to actually be expected to do any work in return for a salary, and do that to some degree of quality? The bloody cheek of it!!!!

A dream combination really

brakes - Member
I'm sure there's a politician that can be blamed...

True 😉 and it wont be long I am sure. Incorrect though! 😉

If you can be bothered the audio link I gave is an interesting listen. Its only about 15 mins long and from a cycling/Raleigh enthusiast/historian. I found the inability to spot trends and the whole group set introduction very interesting. The rest was a familiar tale.

Mr Salmon...they do really though don't they. They are very popular with a certain demographic who like golf, drive certain German cars...don't get me wrong they still make some great products, it the image is a bit squiffy in certain parts of the country. They've kind of moved on from providing eyewear for sports to being quite fashionable.

My Oakley Wisdoms are still the best googles that I've ever had and the after sales service is pretty good too.

Diesel is over-rated IMO, just seem to churn out the same brash labelled stuff as Crosshatch / Henleys etc.

Howies - I bought 2 pairs of Jeans / Trousers in last winters sale and thought even at sale price that teh workmanship was very poor. They have some nice design features but its only the Organic cotton thats anything unique about them. the cut is good but I'm sure Levi's can provide something that lasts longer, is as well cut and cheaper.

Sorry DezB, you obviously feel passionate about them, but their kit is crap. If you get a year out of any of their products, you've done well!

I've got a first generation Bravia telly that says otherwise, geologist.

#wouldn'ttouchtheirphonesorcomputerswithabargepole

Ocrider....thats PAST product that you like. Sony has gone downhill ...or being caught up and overtaken by everyone else..depending how you look at it?

I mean... saying you 'can't' make aluminium bikes? Seriously? Can't!

Well theres a truth in that to a degree. If you are a large scale manufacture of something like bikes you require industry specific skills - welding a bike isn't like welding a forklift truck. So you need a production line-worth of welders with the specific skill you require, plus enough similarly skilled welders in the town to cover sickness and retirement and so on. So if you are the only factory in the town its a struggle, why is anyone going to specialise in a skill that you can only sell to one employer. If you want to change your production line to alu, thats an even more specific skill again. You can train your workforce but in reality you need more than the people on your payroll to have the skills,otherwise you are back to square one every time someone leaves, so really you need two or three factories in the same town.

If you look at the manuafacturing cities in the far east they have clusters of factories producing the same thing just as the UK used to have all the lace factories in one town, all the glass factories in one town and so on. So Raleigh suffered from being the last one left, if Hercules and the other big brands were still around then they would all of been of help to each other.

Ok I'll rephrase it, they used to be good, but not now. 😉

I guess you're both right!

I've thought of one thats been going downhill for years and now appears beyond redemption! Arsenal! 😆

Never had a problem with Howies myself, got several t-shirts and shirts (no troos admittedly), all good quality, well printed, fit me well, have lasted several years with no discernible wear. Subtley bikey without being all "I'm rad me". Not that cheap, but worth it IMO.

North Face bashing seems a bit snobbish: "they're available on the high street ergo they're shit", despite the fact they still do a lot of decent top end kit 🙄

Going OT miss njee20 wanted a sewing machine - the first brand I could think of were Singer, so we looked at their machines, which got dire reviews. Turns out someone bought the name in the 90s and now sells bad machines at inflated prices trading on the heritage of the brand.

Not sure I'd put Sony in that camp either, they're not as innovative as they were, but I'd still buy a Bravia TV fo sho.

Not really got any other examples I'd add!

North Face bashing seems a bit snobbish: "they're available on the high street ergo they're shit", despite the fact they still do a lot of decent top end kit

Schwinn
Tag
Wagon Wheels
Kona
Saab

Tioga

Ringle

X-Lite

On Triumph, (and note any list like this always has a tongue in cheek element) I grew up riding my Raleigh bike past the original Triumph works in a small village in the Midlands.

The old meriden factory produced tat, that pissed oil everywhere. Blimey, talk about rose tinted glasses. However that was the automotive industry of the 70s. i don't doubt that old Bonnies and Thunderbirds are iconic - but the Triumph of Hinckley, that now produces very credible bikes that can compete with the best, cannot be seen as a bad brand. And that is being said as a Ducati owner

Now Harley - that's a different matter ...
Jeep
Saab (as mentioned above) - used to make iconic cars, then stated making a worse version of a Vectra. I know, i had one. It was just rubbish ...
NAD amps
Mission speakers
TDK tapes

Foes. I used to really lust after their frames a few years back and logged on to the site a few weeks back just to see what they’re up to.
I’m sure they ride well but the look of the frames now.. 😯

[i]Sorry DezB, you obviously feel passionate about them, but their kit is crap. If you get a year out of any of their products, you've done well![/i]

Nonsense I say!

HM Armed Forces . . . . . .

Do you work in a Sony shop? You seem overly protective of the brand! All I can say is in the last 2 years had a Vaio laptop, which broke after 15 months, and contained a locked bios, which I thought was a bit naff, and a camera which stoped working after about a year and a half.

Alex, there's a reason the some top end jackets are short. It's so they don't foul your climbing harness. You can wear them with salopettes if you want a warm midriff.

IBM do a lot of very cool stuff. Watson is cool.

We've got an ancient B&D hammer drill which I think Noah used on the ark, it'll be going long after all the orange plastic crap they sell now is in landfill.

Me too. Mine I inherited from my grandfather. Must be 35 years old and it is fantastic!

Me too. It's a proper weapon. Does simply not have an overheat 'function'. It just keeps going regardless of what you do to it.
Proper heavy and doubles up a hammer for added value. I think that's what they mean by hammer drill.

I've got a Black & Decker bog standard hammer drill that's 16 years old, my Dad's is at least twice that and still works, although it does create a shower of sparks which I guess isn't very safe...

cant believe so many people mentioning Kona

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

i want to ride a process too, getting some good reviews
[img] [/img]

plastic dh for 2014
[img] [/img]

http://revolutionmtb.com.au/?p=1105

Sorry, haven't read all the above, but Hunter wellies - used to be awesome, then they took production to China and now... the wellies are rubbish. I used to live and die in them, now I wear other boots.

IBM do stuff you don't see anymore it's all out there just hiding.

Kona had a very rough phase where they managed to make functional or just plain weird bike that didn't really excite people. They have made a come back with the Operator etc. see what they do from here.

Macpac. 🙁

Kona have just never kept that ahead of the field status that JM brought, but then that would have been too much to ask really. They will always have legendary staus, but only in heritage.

IMworthlessO.

IBM do stuff you don't see anymore it's all out there just hiding.

That.

bearnecessities - Member
Kona have just never kept that ahead of the field status that JM brought, but then that would have been too much to ask really. They will always have legendary staus, but only in heritage.

IMworthlessO.

id disagree the world moved on from the steel hardtail and kona where at the front of the freeride movement with the original stinky, the first privateer dhbike with the stab, theyve kept exotic steel bikes in their lineup ever since including singlespeeds

some of their bikes havent been brilliant but theyve always kept some great bikes in the catalogue

the world moved on from the steel hardtail

I disagree! 🙂

Manufacturers progressed, marketing and such like did their job and full sus/carbon etc became affordable to all.

However, again just my view, but kona were the leaders with the tech available at the time. They no longer are, but I'd still swap my full sus, carbon, character-less bike, for the excitement and feel my old explosif pro gave me.

My point? I've forgotten...

Fat willy's surf shack

Macpac.

Yes, good one. Thinking about replacing my old Glissade this year but doesn't look like another Macpac will be on the list. Was it just the production move to Vietnam that did for them do you think?

molgrips - Member

Alex, there's a reason the some top end jackets are short. It's so they don't foul your climbing harness. You can wear them with salopettes if you want a warm midriff.