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hora - MemberWhat about the girl he murdered love?
it would be interesting to know what her family felt, Im assuming they were watching
If that was my daughter, I would not want them incarcerated for life. Unless it was a very very short life with an unpleasant end. I doubt I'd be particular rational about much of anything to do with the accused.
Which is probably a very good argument against the death penalty TBH.
You could quite easily make a rational argument that torture of depraved criminals could be viewed as a deterrent.
Whats better is you dont even need it to do it to the guilty as long as it is sufficiently bad to deter others #philosophy
What about the girl he murdered love?
It was bad - murdering people is bad...doing it in a slow painful way is worserer
It is irrelevant who is doing the murdering
Really? And who would be most deserving of that suffering, in your view?Oh, sorry, nobody? So who then would be most deserving of compassion?
Who are you to decide between who's more deserving of compassion, the killers family or the victims? Why is the loss of one man for one familty less than another, both losses will cause the same level of anguish amongst their respective families.
If I wasn't a ****ing atheist I swear to god I'd move in with some buddhists in some far flung province of Tibet.
it would be interesting to know what her family felt, Im assuming they were watching
The liberal would like to think they were horrified.
The hardened-thinker would like to think they felt it was a chapter closed/job done.
If it was me- who knows. I do remember the Russian Father who turned up on the doorstep of a Swiss air traffic controller and killed him over the death of his two children though.
Would I be vengeful too? Who knows. None of us do unless we personally have been placed in that EXACT situation.
I wasn't talking about their families, tom.
Many of us would be vengeful the problems is that that is not justice
many folk would happily kill folk who stole minor value items of property but it would not be justice it would be revenge
then someone else has to revenge that murder and so the cycle continues
Someone has to break it
How would I react ?I dont know but years later i would like to think I would not turn up to see the death Days later i would probably do it myself. It is why they keep the victims out of the justice system.
In light of cases in Afghanistan, if a prison guard had gone in the chamber and shot him to end his suffering, would it be murder?
This would be a win/win for the condemned and spectators surely?
And they could incorporate it with the last meal....
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The liberal would like to think they were horrified.The hardened-thinker would like to think they felt it was a chapter closed/job done
Not much of a thinker, ey? I should imagine if they didn't like him they wouldn;t have turned up!
Heres another.
“For a quarter of an hour," the statement reads, "Mr. McGuire suffered horribly, in front of his wife and children, from pain and panic caused by drug-induced breathing distress.
I think this is apt
Are you righteous? Kind? Does your confidence lie in this? Are you loved by all? Know that I was, too. Do you imagine your sufferings will be less because you loved goodness? Truth? - The Thin Red Line
I get the feeling that a lot of people support the death penalty because they feel some entitlement to revenge, they have been good people and have followed the rules....woe is me etc.
The hardened-thinker would like to think they felt it was a chapter closed/job done.
You'd like to think that - but as mentioned above that isn't how it pans out.
One thing in all of this is:
What does the person(s) doing the killing on behalf of the USGovt actually think about a) this incident b) other killings they do on prisoners etc.
This argument can rage/enrage, a great many people died at the hand of Hitlers henchmen and yet no remorse (or hardly any recorded remorse) has ever been shown, this incedent suggests that Humans choose to inflict death on others, either legally or not, either by injection whether guilty or not, or by gassing or shooting etc. ad nausium.
Not wanting to link this particular incident to the killing of the Teacher in Leeds, but the questions will surely rage on about the treatment of the murderer, 15yr old Child.
Awful, but Humans are.
Oh Hora, do rise above it. Cos that's where those compassionate darlings are, up there.
I am not talking about compassion, I am trying to be realistic.
It is generally accepted that some people found guilty actually aren't (perhaps you dispute that) and I don't like the idea of say one in twenty people dieing in pain when actually innocent to ensure we get the 19 really guilty ones (perhaps you think this is an acceptable number).
Also I find it a bit odd to say that those lacking compassion/remorse should be killed horribly as that puts you either in the same category as them. Or you want someone the same as them to do the act on your behalf (which seems rather cowardly to me).
Speaking as someone who has killed someone, albeit by accident, and having worked with some killers and victims I think it can be difficult to separate emotions from what should be practically done.
I would prefer that those found guilty of such crimes be incarcerated indefinitely in order to protect society and to allow the truly innocent ones to mount a robust legal challenge even if it means that money and time is wasted on those who are guilty.
If I was ever accused and convicted of a crime I had not committed then that is what I would want.
I would not want a system that killed me painfully (or at all) in order to ensure they got the guilty ones too.
interesting article
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/oklahoma-former-prison-warden-death-penalty-does-not-help-families
The liberal would like to think they were horrified.
I like to think I'm a liberal person, if it were my family he had killed I'd stab him to death with a knitting needle given the chance, but as pointed out above that wouldnt be the point. I'm glad in this country we dont have executions and we have judges to do sentencing not angry relatives.
Junkyard - lazarusIt is irrelevant who is doing the murdering
I think it's much worse if the state is doing it.
It is generally accepted that some people found guilty actually aren't (perhaps you dispute that)
see the study I linked to above- 1 in 25 sentenced to death in the USA are innocent
Anyway, I think that someone that has been proved to be guilty of such crimes should be put to death, not painfully, not because of any eye-for-an-eye retribution, but simply because someone capable of that sort of crime has no place in society. So, instead of keeping them locked up at vast expense for many years, they should be removed from society.
However, I am sure I read somewhere that the cost of execution is very high so that might mitigate my argument somewhat...
Yip, ultimately that's the crux of it all, especially when looking at the US justice system, which is ultimately, a money making enterprise. Well i wouldn't have confidence in it at all. History is littered with people who have been incarcerated unjustly.Junkyard
Whats better is you dont even need it to do it to the guilty as long as it is sufficiently bad to deter others #philosophy
Never mind me being completely against the death penalty anyhow as psychotic/depraved criminals generally don't weigh up the consequences before they act, so it's an extremely limited deterrent at best.
Speaking as someone who has killed someone
Did you feed them some of those Dangerousbeans?
Compassion.
We are part of nature. We are all creatures, we are not creations of a higher being. Nature is both beautiful but also very cruel.
We seek order in our lives/have a civilised framework that lets everyone co-exist in peace. This doesn't mean we should be fearful of vengeance and rightful retribution for those who odd beings who dont have a place in society.
No, its coffee I drink BTW 😉
However, I am sure I read somewhere that the cost of execution is very high so that might mitigate my argument somewhat...
Somewhat? Even with the ridiculous amounts the yanks spend on appeals etc, they still end up murdering innocent people on death row.
Can you imagine the carnage of innocents if the Daily Mail types got their way here and had us go all Iranian? Humans cannot be trusted with deciding on another mans life.
We are part of nature. We are all creatures, we are not creations of a higher being. Nature is both beautiful but also very cruel.We seek order in our lives/have a civilised framework that lets everyone co-exist in peace. This doesn't mean we should be fearful of vengeance and rightful retribution for those who odd beings who dont have a place in society.
Naturalistic fallacy.
Did you feed them some of those Dangerousbeans?
Shouldn't lol but I did, compassionless person that I am.
Enough of this thread, it's stressing me now. Off to sort out the wife's bike.
surely jamming tnt up his arse would be the better method and exploding the filthy shitbag
You could quite easily make a rational argument that torture of depraved criminals could be viewed as a deterrent.
Wouldn't stand up to an statistical analysis though. (Perceived) probability of being caught has a correlation but severity of punishment doesn't correlate well.
I seriously disagree with the death penalty - it doesn't serve as a deterrent (because people would have to be thinking rationally at the time of their crime, to weight up the consequences, and those that commit crimes 'worthy' of the death penalty are incapable of rational thought) and it doesn't bring closure to families of victims.
However, I do think those convicted of the most horrid crimes should be locked-up with no chance of parole - and a be working 12 hour days while they're in there.
The American justice system is barely any better than Arabic savages chopping peoples heads off.
I seriously disagree with the death penalty - it doesn't serve as a deterrent (because people would have to be thinking rationally at the time of their crime, to weight up the consequences, and those that commit crimes 'worthy' of the death penalty are incapable of rational thought) and it doesn't bring closure to families of victims.
Wow that is one very large generalisation . If that argument were true surely nobody would ever be convicted of anything more than manslaughter .
Arabic savages chopping peoples heads off
😯
Wow that is one very large generalisation . If that argument were true surely nobody would ever be convicted of anything more than manslaughter .
Scary huh, that people like psychopaths might not be accountable for their actions given that it's a neurological disease.
Although the argument that he appeared to be making was that people don't act rationally when they intend to kill someone, they don't think of the consequences. Thus, detterents don't work.
So how about , for example , the man who plans to kill his wife to cash in on her life insurance . How about Harold Shipman , Timothy McVeigh and plenty of others .
I believe they've been forced to change the drug combination because they can no longer get hold of phenobarbital from the Danish supplier.
Is this the world's sole manufacturer? I doubt it.
Anyway. I have a solution.
Midazolam followed by the execution suite being purged with nitrogen.
Lights out every time.
Back to the OP. Why didn't they call the local vet?
Its not a deterrent is it.
Thats not the point. Its about Punishment.
Of course deterrence works, that's why there are no crimes in the USA. Oh ... hang on a mo ...
The American justice system is barely any better than Arabic savages chopping peoples heads off.
Comments like this betray a basic ignorance about the nature of the USA.
Not all the states have the death penalty for the crime of murder, along with many other offences. Drinking alcohol, for instance. Illegal in Kentucky - legal in California.
One should always remember, the USA is more a collection of semi-independent countries. It's not the UK!
"Killing people is wrong. And to make sure you understand, we reserve the right to kill you"
Is essentially the standpoint of some US states.
I can sort of understand the retribution, or even vengeance, but the capricious way that not all murderers or rapists or serial killers are treated to this punishment makes it almost wanton. It is repulsive under those circumstances
Of course deterrence works, that's why there are no crimes in the USA. Oh ... hang on a mo ...
Or maybe there'd be a lot more.
Anyway, can't plan to give these people a horrible death but if it happens by accident there are more worthy causes to worry about.
Anyway. I have a solution.Midazolam followed by the execution suite being purged with nitrogen.
No, borrow some lions from the zoo, then at half time in football games, feed the perps to the lions.
win win win
- reduced food bills for the zoos so they can continue to keep animals cooped up in tiny cages for our entertainment
- no ongoing incarceration bills for the crims
- more entertainment at the games = bigger crowds
- once every so often, a lion might escape and take out some of the dimmer, slower moving footie fans encouraging survival of the fittest and non-survival of the fattest.
vote me not binners for minster of whatever this passes itself off as.
Didn't the current lunatic North Korean feller have someone stood on the aiming point of a zero'd mortar and drop one on him? You'd need a strong constitution to stand up to that.
Deterrents don't work.
There's serious hypothetical consequences to breaking the law several times a day.
The majority of the country couldn't give a hoot. And that's just the "Controlled substances/driving violations/domestic abuse" dalliances. Nobody cares.
nickc - Member
"Killing people is wrong. And to make sure you understand, we reserve the right to kill you"
That's how it looks to me too. If we are serious in our belief that to kill someone is wrong, then "state sponsored" killing is wrong too. Two wrongs don't make a right.
OI. WOPPIT!
Like what you did there with the "semi-independent countries" joke.
mudshark - MemberAnyway, can't plan to give these people a horrible death but if it happens by accident there are more worthy causes to worry about.
like state-sponsored killing of innocent people?
Didn't the current lunatic North Korean feller have someone stood on the aiming point of a zero'd mortar..
I'm not sure we should be looking to North Korea for Best Practise guidelines 😀
As I read it, he not only shot the girl but then watched her being buried alive :(. In these circumstances it gets really tough to not want the death penalty but it's something that has to be resisted
Back to the OP. Why didn't they call the local vet?
Again I don't believe the problem was lack of the correct drugs but rather how they were administered as it seems impossible to get medical professionals who will help with the process