[Closed] Botched lethal injection...has this been done yet?

Disturbing irony in that they tried to resuscitate him when it started to go wrong. "Make him better so we can kill him again!".

or a gun...

I saw the BBC headline; something along the lines of "man dies due to botched lethal injection.".

Isn't that a successful lethal injection?

Or a general anesthetic followed by a drug that stops the heart.

From my understanding of it, the cocktail they give them is *supposed* to be the most pleasant (in the circumstances) way to kill them - they first get something (basically a pre-med) to chill them out, then others to slow heart rate down etc, until they slowly and peacefully die.

However it isn't always like that...

[img] [/img]

I'm far from knowing the facts about these things and I know this topic will have a full spectrum of opinions but I've always thought that if they must go through with something like this then why not use something that kills quickly....like cyanide?

Europe has successfully banned their favoured lethal injection drug from being exported to the USA, hoping to stop lethal injections. However, the US is so obsessed with killing people they'll try any old set of random drugs....

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe-end-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/

[i]Lockett was sentenced to death for the 1999 shooting of a 19-year-old woman. Warner was convicted for the 1997 murder and rape of an 11-month-old girl.[/i]

Hope he suffered. A lot.

And in response to the op^

Hope he suffered. A lot.

Why? Does it make the world a better place? He's incarcerated, can't hurt anyone else. Why is a painful death a good thing?

while I cant say I have much pity for them

it was lockets execution that fuct up - the one who shot the 19 year old

and did they then halt warners ?- the one who killed and raped the baby

the other question is where they one of the 1 in 25 death row inmates that are innocent and sentenced to death by mistake
http://www.nature.com/news/death-penalty-analysis-reveals-extent-of-wrongful-convictions-1.15114

Why is a painful death a good thing?

Sadly people naturally conflate justice and revenge, especially for such awful crimes. 🙁

It can be very hard to rise above it.

[i]Why is a painful death a good thing?[/i]

If you really don't know, I can't explain it to you.

If you really don't know, I can't explain it to you.

Is that because there's no rational explanation for it that can sound palatable? It quenches your thirst for revenge, old testament eye for an eye type stuff.

Some of us like to rise above that and have some compassion and can separate justice and revenge.

a painful death for the killer does nothing to help the victim.

lock them up for life. there's no place for death row in the 21st century.

Michael Portillo did an excellent program on this.

Depends really whether you want to dispose of the criminal in a way that is least distressing for all concerned, or whether you think a bit of suffering as they go is no bad thing.

[not going into whether capital punishment is a good thing or not for the purposes of this discussion]

Cyanide, iirc, is very fast acting in the right concentrations, but in the short while to take effect, agonising, and in lower concentrations can lead to prolonged (minutes) of pain before they die.

Portillo concluded that nitrogen (or other inert gas) hypoxia is the best method. Like taking pilots to altitude and then getting them to take their masks off, they rapidly become disorientated, then almost drunk, and then unconcious and then finally hypoxic. He did similar in a barometric chamber to near unconciousness and described it as thoroughly pleasant.

[i]Is that because there's no rational explanation for it that can sound palatable? It quenches your thirst for revenge[/i]

Yeah, that's probably it (minus the bible stuff).

[i]Some of us like to rise above that and have some compassion and can separate justice and revenge.[/i]

Not me. Obviously.

It is amusing they tried to resuscitate

IIRC they also did this to someone who had a heart attack on the way there and brought them back to life so they could kill them

Its beyond satire
Some crimes are really heinous but that does not mean the state should commit a heinous death to balance it out.
Its either bad or it is not bad who does it is neither here nor there.

lock them up for life. there's no place for death row in the 21st century.

Here's an interesting side debate for the panel: there is a lot of talk about changing the law to allow a euthanasia option for people with long term degenerative disease.

Should prisoners who are locked up for life be granted the same option?

This would be a win/win for the condemned and spectators surely?

[img] [/img]

Pffft... I could totally no-handy that.

I haven't read the paper yet but supposedly statistical analysis has shown that 4 percent of death row inmates are innocent. So much for "beyond all reasonable doubt".

Awesome! What a wonderful world we live in.

Not me. Obviously.

Nor them. That's why they are where they are.

Given the inherent racism in the US justice system, I'd expect a much higher percentage of black inmates to be innocent...

Some of the quashed convictions (of death row inmates) are ridiculous, the police just picked up the first black kid they found and beat a confession out of them.

Why is a painful death a good thing?

Because some people get off on watching others suffer.

The few that have low levels of impulse control end up acting on it and carrying out murders, whilst the rest are happy to hear about or watch awful executions on the internet. Then they rationalise it by telling themselves that the person killed was bad.

Love the rollercoaster.

Revenge is an interesting thing, as is the judgement of a fellow human. I would be keen to know what has caused the greatest suffering - the crimes or the punishment for committing them...

DezB - Member
Is that because there's no rational explanation for it that can sound palatable? It quenches your thirst for revenge

Yeah, that's probably it (minus the bible stuff).

Some of us like to rise above that and have some compassion and can separate justice and revenge.

Not me. Obviously.

Me neither, sad as it may seem there are just folks on this planet that have no remorse nor compassion. Some of these folks are incarcerated in US Prison waiting on Death Row.

The punishment is linked to raised murder rates, from a public health perspective the death penalty doesnt work.

[i]I would be keen to know what has caused the most pain in terms of human suffering - the crimes or the punishment for committing them..[/i]

Really? And who would be most deserving of that suffering, in your view?

Oh, sorry, nobody? So who then would be most deserving of compassion?

IIRC victims' relatives, after watching Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma bomber) die said they felt none of the relief etc they had anticipated. Who'd have thought it?

I have to say I find the idea of wanting revenge for a crime that hasn't even affected you a little tragic and worrying.

Some of these folks are incarcerated in US Prison waiting on Death Row.

and some of the folks on death row are completely innocent!

whatnobeer - Member

Is that because there's no rational explanation for it that can sound palatable?

You could quite easily make a rational argument that torture of depraved criminals could be viewed as a deterrent. Not that I agree with the effectiveness of that rationale mind, but you could make a reasoned argument!

Me neither, sad as it may seem there are just folks on this planet that have no remorse nor compassion. Some of these folks are incarcerated in US Prison waiting on Death Row.

And some post on STW.

Oh, sorry, nobody?

Little point discussing if you're going to answer on my behalf, is there.

You need to calm down a bit, fella...

Given the inherent racism in the US justice system, I'd expect a much higher percentage of black inmates to be innocent...

Or as someone on the BBC comments section put it:

[i]"Any rich white people been executed in the U.S recently?"[/i]

Me neither, sad as it may seem there are just folks on this planet that have no remorse nor compassion.

I've never heard of this Lockett guy before now. All I know about his case is that when he was 23, he shot a 19 year old.

I don't know the situation around that killing, or whether he has shown any remorse in the 15 years since then.

So I'm a bit surprised at people saying they hope he suffered.

The whole capital punishment argument depresses me...let's get the crime issue out of the way - the guy who took 43 minutes to die in considerable distress was found guilty of burying his victim alive after raping her. There's no denying that the act was truly nasty and foul.

However, while our base instinct for revenge might be satisfied at the prospect of Lockett being subjected to a particularly nasty execution, we have to look at the wider issue of whether it is in the best interests of everyone if the state can decide whether an individual lives or dies.

Could any of you put an IV into a man's arm, deliver a lethal cocktail of drugs and then reconcile your actions with yourself afterward? How about if you went ahead with an execution anyway and then discovered further down the line that the original conviction had been unsafe and that you'd killed the wrong guy?

I couldn't do any of that and I'm not ashamed to admit it. It's worth reading up on Albert Pierrepoint - a long serving hangman who oversaw around 400 executions. He later concluded in his own memoirs that the threat of capital punishment was not a deterrent.

no rich white people have affluenza
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/affluenza-defense-probation-for-deadly-dwi_n_4430807.html

You could quite easily make a rational argument that torture of depraved criminals could be viewed as a deterrent.

I'd incarcerate them in a house with a peckish Eric Pickles, who they would then have to fight for every future morsel of food. Their favourite takeaways would be delivered every few hours, so the delicious smells would fill the house. But…. you've got to get past Pickles to get to them. And he's hungry!!!

I tell you…. my talents are wasted. I should be Minister for punishy things at the Home Office

[i]You need to calm down a bit, fella...[/i]

Sorry, do I not seem calm to you? 😆
clever to be able to read that much into a bit of text!

Lockett's lawyer, Madeline Cohen, who witnessed the execution, said her client "was tortured to death"

What about the girl he murdered love?

clever to be able to read that much into a bit of text!

Indeed, as you did with mine. Re-read it - I don't make a statement either way yet you decide that I'm already against revenge and all it entails.

Works both ways, sweetie...

binners - Member
You could quite easily make a rational argument that torture of depraved criminals could be viewed as a deterrent.
I'd incarcerate them in a house with a peckish Eric Pickles, who they would then have to fight for every future morsel of food. Their favourite takeaways would be delivered every few hours, so the delicious smells would fill the house. But…. you've got to get past Pickles to get to them. And he's hungry!!!

I tell you…. my talents are wasted. I should be Minister for punishy things at the Home Office

hahaaha, binners for minister of justice! We could finally make reality tv interesting! 😀

How wishy-washy liberal is the following statement, because it tends to be the needle on my moral compass:

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".

If you can't kill everyone that abuses a child or murders an adult, don't kill anyone for that cause.

Edit: If binners gets to be Minister, can I play Malcolm?

dangerousbeans - Member

Me neither, sad as it may seem there are just folks on this planet that have no remorse nor compassion. Some of these folks are incarcerated in US Prison waiting on Death Row.

And some post on STW.

And some don't, some are in prison waiting on death row. 😉

[i]What about the girl he murdered love?[/i]

Oh Hora, do rise above it. Cos that's where those compassionate darlings are, [i]up there[/i].

What about the girl he murdered love?

Given the corruption and racism inherent in the US justice systm, how can you be sure that he did with that level of certainty.