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may was only able to cobble together a slim majority with the DUP and because labour in Scotland made sure the tories won 8 extra seats. She also was facing an opposition in turmoil
May is neither as dim or venal as Truss. For all I loathe May as a tory she did at least have a public service ethos
And her campaign was a shambles. Absolute shambles, all her speeches were terrible, she sounded robotic, and disconnected, and she still won.
Liz Truss is pretty popular amongst Tories, They'd probably come out their droves to vote for her. (edited with newer polling)
Yes - thats why she is likely to get the leadership because she is popular amongst the 50 000 tory members. Thats all that chart shows. Notthat tory voters would vote for her in a GE
However completely repellent to the floating voters she would need to win a GE
Why do you follow me around the forum to attack everything I say? Its tiresome. What is your issue? If I said the sky is blue you would be in there straight away with some bogus proof its yellow. You do this constantly.
I didn’t realise Borisconi had two kids with Carrie Antoinette. I know he has lots of kids in general but that one passed me by. Poor kids.
That Cliff Richard reference is mint!
Why do you follow me around the forum to attack everything I say? Its tiresome.
I've explained this: It's in your head. I don't treat you any differently to another poster on the forum. How you read my posts is entirely up to you, But all that's happening here is that we discuss the same things on the same threads The idea that I have some personal animus against you, is forgive me, a bit narcissistic.
Nickc - its totally obvious you do this. What is your problem? ( actually I am sure I know 🙂 You prove it again with the derogatory personal attacks but you make sure you have plausible deniability )
You make up bogus nonsense to attack me constantly and on this thread are several examples. the latest one you use stats that prove my point to tell me I am wrong
If you do not realise you are doing this its even more concerning. Its so obvious. Now you try to gaslight.
I'm torn on whether I want a grown up to be voted into the conservative leadership so we don't all suffer whilst BJ self-felates his ego into our oblivion, or to continue with the government imploding.
Watched this yesterday and Mr Stewart makes a very good point in that as an opposition Starmer and Rayner don't have a clear economic policy to counteract the shitbaggery of the govt.
Rory Stewart interview
However much i like Starmer and Rayner - it's not clear what they would do with the economy. Although maybe inaction would be better than what this lot are trying to do with a trade war looming with the largest economic union
Nickc – its totally obvious you do this. What is your problem?
TJ I literally couldn't give a shit about you (in the nicest possible way), i don't actually pay much attention to who writes a post, I just read it. Honestly whatever you think is going on, it isn't.
I don't know what else to say really. That I hold some personal gripe with you, is fantasy, sorry
I didn’t realise Borisconi had two kids with Carrie Antoinette. I know he has lots of kids in general but that one passed me by. Poor kids.
Yeah, the second one arrived with less fanfare than the first. Wilfred and Romy.
As if being fathered by BJ wasn't bad enough!
Pics of therm are very few and far between though other than carefully curated "happy family" shots. They never appear anywhere else and Carrie herself has gone from conspicuous consort to almost invisible, in pics and on social media. Weird.
Can't say I blame her to be honest.
I don’t know what else to say really
Best just to say nothing and let it fizzle out.
As if being fathered by BJ wasn’t bad enough!
Someone needs a lesson about the birds and the bees 😛
Can someone explain that Cold War Steve tweet to idiots like me?
@elshalimo I believe the person represented opposite Carrie is Zac Goldsmith. Google and twitter may reveal the rest.....
You are behaving as a bully and its really unpleasant.
Nick replies and argues against all my points too. I've never once thought he is a bully or has a problem, quite the opposite in fact. If it helps I also know for a fact that you're wrong. Nick doesn't need me to defend him, but I know him IRL and know he would never bully anyone, so please take my word for it.
This place/thread is no more than a university debating club. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with you or arguing against your views, the solution is simple, don't go to the debating club. I hope you don't, because debating club is a better place with both you and Nick, but please lighten up a bit. This stuff isn't important.
Can someone explain that Cold War Steve tweet to idiots like me?
There's a rumour floating around that Carrie may be more than just friends with Zach Goldsmith and BJ may not be the father of her second child
Thanks
Maybe Carrie learned that trick from her husband?
As Coldwarsteve posts go, that one's easy-peasy.
TJ - I'm not trying to gaslight you at all, but you're dealing with some of the forum's most pathological arguers. It probably isn't personal.
Loved CWS's lamp. Very good. Unless it goes all ad hom, and just withdraw if that does happen, it's all just a jolly exchange of points, views and sometimes humour.
Private Eye has been satirising the alleged Carrie/Zac pre-Johnson angle for a while now, less so since the first child, but I am still waiting for my latest copy to arrive to see what they say now.
Nothing in last week's issue so another 7 days to go sadly.
Nickc - I'll just point out that on the thread " men lead lives of quiet desperation" you were called out for this by several other posters and IIRC on other threads as well
The bullying may be inadvertent as mine was. When it was pointed out what I was doing I was ashamed and embarrassed and apologised. I and others have called you out on this and what you do is double down
How about a bit of reflection and trying to understand the effects your posts have on others. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept its not deliberate. Your side of this is to reflect on how you behave on here. I had to go thru that process and its not nice but hopefully I came out a better man
Cha****ng - I'll accept that. Perhaps its inadvertent
Dazh - maybe not in real life but the effects on me are of being bullied. Remember I have been on the other side of this which I am still ashamed of and its just not debating - its personal attacks using bogus point scoring. its very unpleasant and one positive it gives me more insight into how I have behaved which deepens my shame.
creepy "Carrie doesn't live here anymore"
the post you made about Truss that you tried to use to prove me wrong actually supports the point i was making.
Cool, I didn't post to "prove you wrong" If you see every post that debates with you this way, no wonder you accuse me of the behaviour you have. All my posts on the matter says is she's popular. that's it. I can't help how you interpret what I write, but you're wrong to suggest they're done in a spirit of meanness or bullying. You managed to project on me this tone or interpretation and there's nothing I can do about that, but it's the wrong conclusion. I've argued/debated /discussed with dissonance, ernie, dazh, rone, bridges, molly cougar and many others countless countless times, as have you with me over the years, and all of a sudden everything I write is now bullying? Why would I bully you? I couldn't pick you out of a crowd.
I don't want to harm anyone. I will say this a final time, I'm not posting to bully you. and I'm certainly not "following you around the forum" That's the end of the discussion I'll have about it.
Can we please move on an not get into personal arguments yet again?
Nadine Dorries has said that we all need to move on, she must have read this thread
I do not believe Truss could win a GE. I think her dimness would be horribly exposed.
I presume you must have been asleep for the last six years.
The incumbent prime minister hid in a fridge to escape scrutiny last time and won a 80 seat majority.
Dimness is no barrier. Particularly if you can paint the oppo as 'foreign-loving traitors' or similar.
A Mumsnet interview with Johnson?
It's often been said that this place is the male equivalent of Mumsnet, Can you pull your finger out, Mark?
taken aback
surprised
Oh **** off you fat lying ****.
TJ, if you think you are the victim of bullying then report it. I think you're imagining it but if it seems real to you then email the mods.
Blimey, I thought this thread provided some sort of self-help support for all those overwhelmed by their hatred of the Tories.
Why descend into personal animosity when the target is supposed to be Johnson?
Why descend into personal animosity when the target is supposed to be Johnson?
Irony overload.
Look, neither TJ or Nick were aware that they were openly bickering, as such they have not been bickering. They will also retrospectively redefine what bickering is so that they can categorically state that they were not bickering, even though the rest of participants of the thread openly see they were bickering. But they were NOT bickering were they (oh look a dead cat)
Earlier I asked wether Liz Truss could win a General election, not wether she could win the leadership of the Tory party, they are two different questions.
We lived in a different country when May defeated Corbyn (the man who thought we should wait for Putin's internal investigation before attributing blame for the Salisbury poisonings.)
I fully expect Labour and the Lib Dems to stay out of each other's way in contestable seats. The next election will be fought less on ideology than previous elections, (economic plans etc), it will be fought on the basis that the nation needs to be pulled out of a death spiral.
Even the saner half of the Tory party recognise this, ergo my initial question. They face the quandary of deposing Boris for with someone with a moral compass only for a complete and utter moron to claim the throne.
The last two elections were won under the clarion call of getting Brexit done. The next election is all about picking up the pieces. As leader, Truss would have to fight on the platforms of either Brexit being a victory, or that it hasn't been done yet so why not re-elect the mob who didn't manage to get it done first time.... or second time... Can't see the electorate giving the hard Brexiters a third chance.
There are no dead cats left, they'll have to start killing them next, (never mind Carrie, has anyone seen Larry the cat recently?) The culture war as they so fondly call it will be over by 2024 if it isnt already, the final battle of the 'Culture War' is being fought nwithin the Tory party right now.
Should a grown up win the party leadership then they will look to change tack, dispensing with the racism and try to regain ground in their traditional heartlands in the South. They could win.
If Truss (or similar) wins then they will look to double down on current, Cummings devised strategy but without the Mekon and the once charismatic Johnson at the helm to get it over the line. They will lose.
Look, neither TJ or Nick were aware that they were openly bickering, as such they have not been bickering. They will also retrospectively redefine what bickering is so that they can categorically state that they were not bickering, even though the rest of participants of the thread openly see they were bickering. But they were NOT bickering were they (oh look a dead cat)
^^^^
Ahhhh, but that is one of Johnson’s main tricks made manifest right there.
I've not been following the tj vs nick bickerfest in minute detail, but the conclusion I would draw is that one of them was making more of the running when it came to the more derisive stuff.
What you've just done there is to create equivalence with a witty shoe-horning in of the whole "I didn't know I was..." defence. Very much like Johnson has equating mega wine-throwing, plant pot spewing pissups a la Bullingdon club with grabbing a takeaway and a beer during a meeting - admittedly one that was probably close to ending and Starms should probably not have been drinking a beer at that point.
But there is no equivalence between the two as one is manifestly more serious than the other.
Any danger of this getting back on topic, mind?
I fully expect Labour and the Lib Dems to stay out of each other’s way in contestable seats.
This will be key.
It needs to be done as subtley as possible - otherwise it can be painted as a coalition of Remainy traitors.
It also needs the more extreme fringe of Labour to not torpedo the whole thing by spouting shite that makes them unelectable in the eyes of centre or even centre left voters.
I'm not confident of either of those things happening. But Labour will not take seats off of the Tories in the Home Counties in the same way that the Libdems will not do the same in the 'Red Wall'.
Don't forget too, that some of the new breed of northern tories are sat on wafer thin majorities, so Farage will be there (as always) dragging the Tories towards the far right in return for not running against them and splitting the racist/xenophobic vote (which is how we ended up with that stupid referendum in the first place).
Don’t forget too, that some of the new breed of northern tories are sat on wafer thin majorities, so Farage will be there (as always) dragging the Tories towards the far right in return for not running against them and splitting the racist/xenophobic vote (which is how we ended up with that stupid referendum in the first place).
For all that Boris is utterly useless and should never have been given anything beyond an opinion column in a regional newspaper, Farage is probably ultimately responsible for most of the damage done to the UK in the last 10-15 years. He really is a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
UKIP wold have shriveled up without its figurehead, the EU wouldn't have hated us so much without that pontificating prat as our MEP, there'd have been no need to call a referendum and Question Time might have been able to allocate some airtime to decent people...
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I can't help but thinking that Mad Nad would an absolute hoot as PM... As long as we aren't concerned with having any sort of half decent future 🤣
A tragedy indeed. It would have saved me many a sleepless night imagining what I would do to him if I ever got the chance. 😀
"the EU wouldn’t have hated us so much without that pontificating prat as our MEP"
Given that Farage tried 4 times and failed in his attempts to become a UK constituency MP, can we say that it was the European Parliament that made Nigel Farage?
Outside of local elections, (ie, anything that affects a whole nation or region) any election that can't command at least 50% of the eligible electorates attention is not only worthless, it's dangerous. (See also party membership having an extra vote in deciding party leader and in particular, Prime Minister.)
The EU parliament sowed the seeds of its own (so far partial) downfall in the way it was constructed, It built a castle, with a moat and a drawbridge but it left the back door open.
I'm a firm remainer by the way but I always thought the European Parliament was a bad idea.
I’m a firm remainer by the way but I always thought the European Parliament was a bad idea.
Careful, dannytiger will be calling you a nazi with heretical talk like that.
Given that Farage tried 4 times and failed in his attempts to become a UK constituency MP
I know it's hard to believe but his failure to win a Westminster seat was considerably greater than that.
He made 7 attempts, 5 in general elections and 2 in the full glare of by-elections.
And some of the seats were specifically selected for him as his best chance, including Thanet which had the only local authority in the UK under ukip control - for a short while until it collapsed due internal ukip bickering.
Farage personally is nowhere near as popular with voters as some would have us believe.
There have been many points where Farage has been the most popular politician in Britain, crazy through that is.
The European Parliament is mostly misunderstood… it is like an elected House of Lords… it isn’t like the UK government or even the UK primary chamber… the real power has always been with the governments of the nations in the EU (and primary chambers they rely on for their support).
The possibly one single master stroke farage pulled, is convincing the conservatives/Cameron they had to be more right wing than they already were, and therefore rattled them into having the EU referendum.
I don't think he was ever taken seriously by other MEPs, he didn't turn up to any meetings to even be a concern to them.