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TBH it was a cracking video, should have really brought the house down.
The "Dr Who Timewarp" line at PMQs was as obvious as obvious can be... we're currently still "waiting for Sue Gray" and "waiting for the Met" while also being told that it's all in the past and should forget about everything.
we’re currently still “waiting for Sue Gray” and “waiting for the Met” while also being told that it’s all in the past and should forget about everything.
It's a holding pattern - blur it all over, dismiss it all airily. Very little will happen in the Tory party now until after the council elections on 5th May. None of them will want to rock the boat too much for fear that it'll spill over to the locals (more so than it already has...) so they're just in a bit of a gung-ho, "we're solving everything" mood, trying their best to smooth everything over until early May.
After that, especially if the Tories take a battering in local elections, the knives will be out, there'll be far fewer people willing to defend him or glaze over it all.
His performance in PMQs is beginning to wane a bit though. See how many backbenchers are cheering him on come May 6th / 7th...
As I've said before.
Fabricant has been MP for Lichfield for the 25 years since it was gerrymandered into existence.
Lichfield is a prosperous semi-rural constituency about as far from the sea as it possible to be and without masses of intensive agriculture (I.e. not able claim much 'threat' from seasonal labour or cross channel immigration). It is culturally exceptionally undiverse (96%+ identity as white British as opposed to 85% in the UK as a whole).
So, basically they are 'alright Jack' if you consider diversity and immigration to be 'problems'.
And yet they voted Leave 59/41.
Fabricant knows his audience is all. He is their elected representative and they are happy with that.
Unfathomable to me, but the first rule of showbiz is that you don't alienate your audience. If your audience are big fans of 'Love Thy Neighbour'....
"I think Allegra Stratton’s problem was that she was the only person anywhere near Downing Street in possession of a sense of shame"
Is that supposed to be a joke?
She is as self serving and vile as Johnson himself. Did you ever see the work she did (and was sacked for I think, or at least reprimanded) when she worked as a TV journalist, for interviewing a single mother on benefits implying she was a scrounger whilst neglecting to mention she was working for the local council but her wages were so low she had to use universal credit to pay her bills.
She was absolutely despised by her work colleagues.
Given that the UK is one of the world's foremost arms producers, I'm surprised Johnson didn't pass the Ukraine visit off as a 'business meeting'.
Stratton wasn't sacked by ITV for the interview she did with a single mother when she skewed the facts.
Not the first journo to do that and she won't be the last.
As for local elections in May, the tories have baked in c850 seat losses; anything upto 900 will, I'm sure, elicit nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders.
If they lose >1000 that will be more concerning - for them.
The 2023 local election results will be a much better barometer.
The 2023 local election results will be a much better barometer.
By which time, no doubt, Johnson will have been photographed getting a nosh from Jennifer Arcuri behind the Azaleas at Windsor Castle at her Maj's wake.
But the union jack y-fronts around his ankles will sway enough folk for a GE win.
I feel a bit sick
While it’s true to say Johnson (I won’t call him Boris) has little interest in detail, he is good at substance. The Union has no actual power so it’s all about winning the argument, whatever it happens to be that day.
I always thought that was what politics was about. Where the best 'heads of the university debating team' do battle. you know, one takes one side, the other takes a different view, regardless of personal opinion, and it's down to who does the most convincing debate who wins.
the other side of that however are the politicians who genuinely have an interest in the subject matter and go into it thinking that the debating masters do too. Only to become rapidly disillusioned by the political masturbation that gets in the way of progress.
I always thought that was what politics was about. Where the best ‘heads of the university debating team’ do battle. you know, one takes one side, the other takes a different view, regardless of personal opinion, and it’s down to who does the most convincing debate who wins.
Not necessarily. We did a bit of a debating society as life lesson thing at school. The 'sides' were often rigged so participants had to argue for something they disagreed with. The topics were often rigged too, so that one side was 'beyond the pale' but could still technically 'win' the argument.
These were very good lessons on a number of levels showing:
1. How 'good' arguments for 'bad' things could be constructed.
2. How waffling could bore people into voting for you to shut you up.
3. How having the last word is very important if the audience is tired, bored, apathetic etc.
4. How willing some people were to subvert their normal values to appear clever and win an argument.
5. How some people would play the man and not the ball if they were being bested.
6. How much the audience could be swayed by one well-timed and amusing cheap shot.
And many others.
A lot real-life politics should be done by seeking consensus on trivial matters, to leave time and energy for the big stuff, and the participants should always be acting in the interests of their electorate.
"1. How ‘good’ arguments for ‘bad’ things could be constructed.
2. How waffling could bore people into voting for you to shut you up.
3. How having the last word is very important if the audience is tired, bored, apathetic etc.
4. How willing some people were to subvert their normal values to appear clever and win an argument.
5. How some people would play the man and not the ball if they were being bested.
6. How much the audience could be swayed by one well-timed and amusing cheap shot."
This is the best description of this forum that I've yet seen.
This is the best description of this forum that I’ve yet seen.
no it's not!
Anyone see Rees Mogg on the news comparing Johnson getting fined to cricket umpiring?!
I liken him to that one prick at Paintball, who has been shot multiple times, is covered in paint but plays on , waving everyone away saying he hasn’t been hit at all 😉
I feel a bit sick
I initially read it as Jennifer Aniston and felt way worse.....
This is the best description of this forum that I’ve yet seen.
Oh I'm not denying actually using some of this. 🙂
Any argument can be subverted if you so wish. The usual end is that the existence of god ends up being debated. Or a punch up.
But that's for the pub. Pub debates don't actually knock 5% off of GDP and put people into poverty so a chosen few can buy vast country estates etc.
Had a brief chat with an old boy yesterday whilst out riding. I was reading the bumf around a bridleway closure so that a load of boxy newbuild tat can be thrown up.
Him: "Their building more ****in ahses".
Me: "Don't vote Tory".
Him (looking a bit put out): "They're all as bad as each other".
Me: "I don't think they are, plus it looks like you can't do any worse".
His MP is Andrew Bridgen.
You gotta laugh sometimes.
With his short leg he's often let his fly slip but he gets extra cover from lots of spinners. Out!
If you do some reading up on WG Grace he is actually quite similar to Johnson in many ways.
But Grace did actually do some things that stood the test of time and are still considered 'great' by any measure.
Johnson has not. And will not. He's a fraud from the tips of his toes to the ends of his carefully 'ruffled' hair.
And he's Prime Minister of the UK.
Go figure.
I heard the JRM rubbish comparing it to a DRS decision . My wife piped up “So he’s out then??” JRM has just perfectly explained why he should resign!!
Quite a record Johnson is getting:
Lost the support of parliament.
Lost tge support ofcthe last 3 Tory PMs
Lost the support of the public
Now he’s lost the support of God!!
Yet still he thinks he is correct…..
Lynch Mobb needs a kick in the googly's
Yet still he thinks he is correct…..
Im not sure he does, as much as hes just hoping something comes up to save his skin, befor ethe next fine drops and the next one, and the next one.....
Tories have no sense of shame do they?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61170379
Trying to delay a vote the ****ers will win anyway!
Boris is what he has always been, it's the reason he is where he is just now, and all the big events over the last decade have worked in his favour, it sucks, but he won't change, he'll fight tooth and nail to stay, do people expect a man with no real honour to do the honourable thing, he knows how weak his competition is, and is exploiting everything he can, as usual.
It's sadly the reality of life, like the lottery winner you see who's either already a millionaire, or a complete scumbag, good things don't just happen to good people.
As much as I despise bozo and think he's totally unfit to be pm, i was wondering why labour were trying to force this through now rather than waiting for the other fines and the final report. It sounds like there is worse to come so why no wait so it can all be considered? Not that it will make any difference. Nothing to see here etc.
Its win win for Labour. If he goes great, if he stays his electability is severely (critically imo) damaged.
they (labour) want to lose. Then it's on the Tory party not Johnson if they wait they may win (bad results in the local for example and 3 more fines dropping on the no 10's mat) and the tories get a pass.
It sounds like there is worse to come so why no wait so it can all be considered?
Forcing Conservative MPs to rally around the PM, after only one fine, to tie them to him when he gets more, and more information can come after the Met have finished and Gray might publish fully. They know what’s likely to be coming, but they’ll still meekly tie themselves to the Johnson wagon, tainting themselves. People don’t just vote for a PM, they vote for MPs. The party might change its leader, but it will still have many sitting MPs asking the public to vote for them at the next general election. Often in seats where Brexit and opinions on Corbyn worked in their favour more at the last election than they will at the next. It’ll be closer for many. And their decision to repeatedly back Johnson with his smirking elitist “one rule for me, another rule for the little people” attitude might make the difference.
As much as I despise bozo and think he’s totally unfit to be pm, i was wondering why labour were trying to force this through now rather than waiting for the other fines and the final report. It sounds like there is worse to come so why no wait so it can all be considered? Not that it will make any difference. Nothing to see here etc.
For the optics - going into the local elections pointing out that the tories voted to block the committee's review of whether Johnson deliberately misled parliament is toxic. Then if the local elections are disastrous on the back of that, the pressure to get shot of him grows.
It's a gamble now; the tories commit to supporting an inquiry once the Gray report / extra fines come out and promise not to block it*, so it's just buying time and / or gambling the Gray report won't be too damning and can be swept away.
* of course they can, you can't trust them in any way. They'll happily delay an inquiry on the understanding that it comes later, and then come up with some reason why it has to be delayed further or cancelled.
What Kelvin said.
My own useless **** of a Tory MP is sat on a majority of 100 votes. Many of the new ‘red wall’ Tory MPs are sat on similar paper-thin majorities.
So get them to ‘dip their hands in blood’ and ‘Back Boris’ with an ‘on the record’ Parliamenty vote on the one issue that has cut through and thus tie their fate to his as the second, third, fourth and however many more fines come in
My own MP has gone to ground of late. Saying nothing. This vote means he has to pick a side. Tie yourself to Boris, or not. No wonder they’re not wanting to do that in public.
Labour are absolutely right to force them to do so. And Johnson’s cronies are now doing everything to stop that happening, because they know that plenty are not going to be that keen and will prefer to ‘do a Boris’ and find a fridge to hide in instead
As others have said, Labour are in a win-win situation here.
The Tories have three choices to make:
Let the vote today go ahead and back Johnson.
Let the vote today go ahead and not back him.
Delay the vote and by proxy back Johnson.
The first and third options tie every MP to his fate for the next few years. The second option will be a hammer blow but does buy them time to rebuild, get a new leader etc before the next election. Labour have essentially played to the Tories blind side - keep in power at any cost - and they will now tie themselves in knots by not looking at the longer picture. We'll find out tonight which path they have chosen.
Interesting that Johnson after initially thinking he could bluff out a vote has u-turned and just wants to delay it
I'm quite enjoying the new game of writing to my MP. Not that he's joining in.
Dear Mr Lamont,
I am both a constituent and a conservative voter. But I am afraid that after the latest antics from Mr Johnson my vote will probably be cast elsewhere.
You are a man who understands the power of words and, I don't doubt, can spot a mealy mouthed non-apology when you hear it. I would have some respect for Mr Johnson if he admitted his failings but he has sought to muddy the waters and avoid the issues. I hope you will stand your ground and let the PM know that support will dwindle if he continues to lie.
The fact that members are being whipped speaks volumes but having looked at your voting record it would appear you tow the party line, which I'm afraid speaks volumes.
Regards
Dr 100th
Ma Hoose
Pish two "speaks volumes".
As others have said, Labour are in a win-win situation here.
Yet they will still lose the next election...
Ah ok, that makes more sense now, thanks. Would the committee have access to the Sue Gray report before it is released? Presumably that would be useful evidence for them to consider.
Yet they will still lose the next election…
Roll the turd in glitter, wrap it in a Union Jack and claim everyone else is unpatriotic.
It's already sewn up. They know their audience.
Well, our Tory MP has proved he really is one of Johnsons protege's. He's been forced to take down social media posts claiming that the local council has benefitted from millions in grants from various government pots, doled out by the benevolent Tory establishment.
Turns out that they haven't. They've applied for them, but haven't had any approved. It took him four days to take it down, once he was made aware of this, as if he wasn't already
Like the boss, just good, old-fashioned lying
Like the boss, just good, old-fashioned lying
If the electorate endorse it, what can sane people do?
Like the boss, just good, old-fashioned lying
The problem is that people read the headline - "millions given to councils by benevolent Tory Government, keep voting Tory for more cash!" - and by the time the journos have done due diligence on it, the council have said "err, none of this is true, you've cut our funding" and the original tweet deleted (notice how there's never a retraction, always just delete without admitting wrongdoing...), everyone has moved on.
The lie has gone all around the constituency before the truth has even got out of bed.
Like the boss, just good, old-fashioned lying
Dont worry there is hope yet. PA Media have just reported his visit to the Sabarmati Ashram where.
"Johnson signed a guestbook, writing that it was an “immense privilege” to learn about how Gandhi “mobilised such simple principles of truth and non-violence to change the world for the better”"
So who knows he might change a habit of a lifetime.
The lie has gone all around the constituency before the truth has even got out of bed.
An excellent description of modern media manipulation by politicians.
I don't think Gandhi ever changed his habit...or not once he had put it on. That is based on the photos I've seen of him and he was always wearing the same thing.
It's being reported that No10 has dropped the amendment that would try and delay tonight's vote so it going ahead as a Free Vote. Does that mean they now realise it's indefensible and there's no point delaying the inevitable?
Should be interesting!
Maybe they realised that they’d blundered in to the elephant trap the Labour Party set for them and realised that postponing it would just leave something else hanging over them as well as the upcoming fines.
I doubt it’ll be a free vote though. It’ll be a 3 line whip to line up to support the glorious leader