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I saw that earlier, but not sure how true. As the number is not revealed until the threshold met, at which point it's too late
What goes on in parliament is a pantomime. It always has been, its just that now it's beating 'Neighbours' in the ratings.
We are in a situation where the public know the truth, they aren't looking for answers from Johnson or the police, they are asking for action. 2 resignations please.
The political landscape is shifting, not right / left but on the axis of trust. Thats why were seeing the vacillation from the right wing press. They thought thety had a significant portion of the population in their pockets and they've just found out theyve got a hole in their pocket.
While unlikely it is difficult to actually argue against as in theory they could be worse.
Yes true, but there is a difference between would and could.
I honestly don't have much faith in Labour either but I cannot stand this Trump style politics of Johnson.
Whoever is in power it is our duty to hold them accountable.
I saw that earlier, but not sure how true. As the number is not revealed until the threshold met, at which point it’s too late
But if the VONC is forced on the back of half of those forcing it not actually supporting the point - that could be quite clever.
Would the VONC be a secret or open ballot. Morally i'd say if you put a letter in saying you have no confidence you should be obliged to vote that way, but then I look at me typing morally in this context and shake my head at the waste of time that was.
Secret.
The political landscape is shifting, not right / left but on the axis of trust. Thats why were seeing the vacillation from the right wing press. They thought thety had a significant portion of the population in their pockets and they’ve just found out theyve got a hole in their pocket.
Very fair point
I've obviously too much time on my hands as I've emailed the tory responsible for Chelmsford (my last residence in UK).
From the BBC News page
Sir Lindsay Hoyle has been answering questions about parliament and his role as Speaker of the House of Commons.
While he wasn't asked directly about particular MPs making false claims in Parliament, BBC Radio 5 Live's Naga Munchetty asked him "why can't an MP say another one is lying?".
Hoyle says: “We believe that MPs are honourable members and by being honourable members they wouldn’t lie”.
I can see where this is going wrong....
I can see where this is going wrong…
Without a doubt the problem is Johnson, he needs to go.
I think changing the rules would have a long term detrimental effect on Parliament however. It would help if Lindsay Hoyle wasn't so soft on Johnson.
Soft on Johnson, soft on the causes of Johnson....
“We believe that MPs are honourable members and by being honourable members they wouldn’t lie”
But it is only half his job to stop honourable members from calling each other liars, it is also his job to make them correct the record, to Parliament, in person, when they have not been honourable in the house. That includes the PM. If only does half his job, he very quickly looks as if he is working for the PM, not for all in Parliament. The rules don’t need changing, the PM needs to stick to them, and the Speaker needs to do his job and demand that he does.
I know I just typed words to the effect of “The rules are for Johnson as well, not just everyone else”, and that Johnson has always thought and acted otherwise, but that is why he should not be in his job.
The political landscape is shifting, not right / left but on the axis of trust. That's why were seeing the vacillation from the right wing press. They thought they had a significant portion of the population in their pockets and they’ve just found out they've got a hole in their pocket.
Frankly the right wing press doesn't count for much anymore, The Sun is on it's arse, effectively insolvent and even they don't think it can rebound. The Daily Mail still reaches 900k people a day, about 1.3% of the population and it's dropping 10% a year, the rest are far smaller and shrinking quicker.
The Mail will survive, or rather Mailonline will, its huge, biggest online 'news' outlet in the world, but it's not really a newspaper, mailonline trashy 'celeb' news and such. It's readership couldn't give a hoot about British Politics, their biggest market is the US.
Most people in the UK now get their news from TV and online.
I saw that earlier, but not sure how true. As the number is not revealed until the threshold met, at which point it’s too late
Coming back to this, I think the chairman has to go and check with all the letter writers that they still wish their letter to be considered, at which time anyone writing one for dishonest reasons would know the threshold has been reached and be able to withdraw, so taking it below the number again.
Not my knowledge, sure someone said it a few pages previously.
Doris will be getting her anti-BBC anger peaked by the episode of More Or Less airing now... they're running though the PM's misleading use of statistics (lies) one by one... and it's very interesting...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00146b6
… they’re running though the PM’s misleading use of statistics (lies) one by one…
How many weeks is that being serialised over?
I hope Doris kicks off about it, it will give it a lot more publicity than it normally gets. And if they are all (obviously) fact checked, it might make a few more people wonder at her motives for going for the Beeb
Actually... they only did two, and then moved on to other things. Worth a listen still (as always). It was brought up that he isn't called to the house to correct his repeating of lies in parliament, but people are ejected for pointing them out. Interesting point about self employed moving into direct employed because of IR35 as well.
Good ole Dom.
I really hope this is doing everlasting damage to the Tory party
While it utterly ****s the country...
And at the end, we've still a ****ed country.
And at the end, we’ve still a ****ed country.
I can't see the country ever recovering from the last 11 years of Tory rule.
Austerity, division, nationalism, Brexit, a complete lack of any tangible plan for doing anything to develop the country, improve life, care for the environment.
I doubt very much the EU would ever want us back, and that's if we manage to stay together as a Union in the first place.
The Government has just got worse and worse under successive PMs until it's now basically a banana republic existing solely to keep Johnson in power.
and somewhere there's a parallel universe where people voted for chaos with Ed Miliband...
and somewhere there’s a parallel universe where people voted for chaos with Ed Miliband…
Entire nation ****ed by bacon sandwich
I'd rather remember Ed Miliband for forcing a vote to keep us from going into Syria.
That bacon sandwich pic was the right wing press at their absolute scummiest and maybe pivotal in the destiny of a nation. A case where the media was definitely the enemy of the people.
So, we know there was booze. They are claiming it was 'work', surely it's as bad to be on the piss at work as it is to be ignoring lockdown rules?
There's nothing like announcing "Freedom Day v2," to change the media narrative from this clown's daily blunders. :rolleyes:
surely it’s as bad to be on the piss at work as it is to be ignoring lockdown rules?
But if you need a good scoop just to function then perhaps it’s the responsible thing to do?
Hey, Zippy… have you gone local on us, or did you find that photo on the internet? That’s just down the road from here.
Pic was on ****tter t'other day.
PMQs today - Lab MP refers to pic on mirror website and asks pointed question at same time that other labour MPs are looking at website and smirking/chortling.
Hilarious - but serious as it's another undeniable example of johnson having lied to HoC and continuing to lie.
Genius from Jim 😀
https://twitter.com/Jimllpaintit/status/1491420727958208515?s=20&t=Ku00E2WfTrabaNWK3Kyckw
Jinx!
🤣
I am half expecting to see photo leaked of a pissed Mad Nad sitting on a photocopier with tinsel on making pics for Bozo.
re Lindsay Hoyle
BJ got away , again, with a 'Scottish Nationalist Party' jibe against Blackford at today's PMQs (as well as the usual blizzard of other lies).
Just infuriating as Hoyle either doesn't pick it up or chooses not to.
I was hate watching again so it was that Jibe as well as chinless wonder suella braverman shaking her head at Starmer that I found particularly nauseating
Hoyle used to pick it up… but Johnson did his normal trick of just embedding poor standards by repeatedly breaking the rules, and ignoring the speaker with a few quips and jokes, ‘till everyone just accepts that it’s just “Boris being Boris”, and standards are lowered to his level. Rules don’t apply to him… so by being in power he is eroding yet another rule based system, dragging down institutions with him.
Clarke-Smith and Zahawi need to get in the sea. Ideally chained to and dragged in by a bloated PM, as he sinks under the weight of his on hubris.
Hoyle used to pick it up… but Johnson did his normal trick of just embedding poor standards by repeatedly breaking the rules, and ignoring the speaker with a few quips and jokes, ‘till everyone just accepts that it’s just “Boris being Boris”, and standards are lowered to his level. Rules don’t apply to him… so by being in power he is eroding yet another rule based system, dragging down institutions with him.
Very true, he's dragged the whole country and all it's institutions down to his own shitty level.
And apparently 'real' people aren't bothered about parties anyway... So says the Commons 'leader'. FFS.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60318610
I really do despise the current crop of tory politicians.
Very true, he’s dragged the whole country and all it’s institutions down to his own shitty level
And just like Trump; he couldn’t give a shit! The only thing that matters is him. He couldn’t care less what or who gets trashed in the process, as long as he’s ok
Unlike Trump though, in the absence of a written constitution, we don’t have the same capacity to limit the damage
Is it going to be a fun weekly event that a new party pic is released during PMQs?
Welcome to tory england:
Unlike Trump though, in the absence of a written constitution, we don’t have the same capacity to limit the damage
I was emphatically told on here a few years back that we don't need a written constitution. Like you I'm still not convinced.
‘Unwritten’ is fine while you’ve people involved who respect the checks and balances. When it’s someone like Johnson all bets are off
He’ll push as far as he can get away with, then push some more. And he’s been getting away with it for years
On a slightly more numerous note I see Truss turned up in Russia today wearing an outfit petty similar to that written by a certain female Tory leader of the 80's.
It's a coincidence I'm sure.😁
Well, just watching Peston and the guy who's family owns Iceland (the store) was on it amongst others.
"Seems like a reasonable bloke, seems to
give a sh*t", I was thinking, then boom!
I won't be shopping there ever again.😁
Saw that too poopscoop. From what I know Iceland is a pretty reasonable employer so was quite surprised at his position on Johnson not resigning.
But then I thought as someone running a business with the responsibility of employing thousands of people, perhaps whoever leads the tory party is not top of his list of concerns right now. Or perhaps from a business point of view he worries that whatever replaces the clown could be even worse.
The police have offered 50 Downing Street Party Attendees an opportunity to upgrade their fixed term penalties to jail sentences 🙂
The questionaires and them needing to be back in 7 days make me hope that they are going to act on this swiftly rather than drag it out for a year.
I saw Richard Walker speak at KMF as Iceland were sponsoring an event there. He seemed pretty genuine about tackling climate change and food poverty issues in his business. Bizarre that he would support Johnson.
There's often a gulf between corporate and personal politics. How much of what Iceland do as a business for charity is written off against tax or used to promote itself or gain publicity? Will more people shop there if they think the corporation is cuddly and nice?
I'm a civil servant, my personal views and what my employer expects me to do have not coincided for about 16 years.
The general premise of conservatism seems to be - lower taxes, smaller state, higher employment. I don't agree but I can appreciate the argument.
However, if you look at the policies this government has introduced that affect people directly, some of them are pretty far to the left: furlough, eat out to help out, NI rises, £150 council tax rebate... Conservatives, often spout about public policies further to the right (often involving the militar), to appease a portion of the party, but often these come to nothing.
The Tory part seem to attract a certain type of person. I can't look at Rees Mog, without bringing up a little bit of sick. Amazing to think, that some people look at Nadine and think "there is a formidable and intelligent woman" but no doubt they do. So for most people, it feels like rather than an ideological war it has become a class and personality war.
However, for business, differences in policies are vast. And away from public glare (and understanding), policies are implemented that make significant differences - generally in line with the core party policies.
... Actually, I am not sure where I am going with this. Sorry, I'll stop there
Raising tax on the income of ordinary workers, not the wealth of the “successful”… I think that’s were you were going.
Raising tax on the income of ordinary workers, not the wealth of the “successful”… I think that’s were you were going.
Yes, thanks
I’m a civil servant, my personal views and what my employer expects me to do have not coincided for about 16 years
@MoreCashThanDash you are Sir Humphrey Appleby and I claim my £5.
The general premise of conservatism seems to be – lower taxes, smaller state, higher employment. I don’t agree but I can appreciate the argument.
However, if you look at the policies this government has introduced......
Not just this government. Britian's most famous Conservative Prime Minister of recent times, Margaret Thatcher, increased taxation, increased the size of the state, and slashed employment.
That's a good article...
But in her time, as today, high earners won and the poor lost out
Although she grabbed front pages for slashing income-tax rates, especially for top earners, she also jacked up national insurance contributions, and VAT for shoppers.
Taxes actually went up under Thatcher, and the increase fell hardest on the less well-off.
Under her, high earners won big and finance became the UK’s boss industry.
These weren’t screw-ups, but a deliberate and profound transfer of money and power to the already well-off.
Instead we should ask for whom the state will shrink – and who is in line for an almighty payout.
However, for business, differences in policies are vast.
And Boris didn't actually even need to say '**** business!". He indicated he wasn't much interested in what business thought when he promoted not just Brexit, but the hardest form of it possible. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in business other than Wetherspoons Tim who thought leaving the single market was a good idea. Did Boris care? Of course he didn't. Every business in the country could go to the wall for all he cares.
We've commented many times on this thread that this isn't really a Tory party in any recognisable form any more. Its an English nationalist party, but behind the flag-waving populism the only economic interests they're really representing is nomadic (and usually extremely dodgy) global capital, whether thats US hedge funds or Russian Oligarchs.
It's a pro-wealth party... supported by people with little to no wealth, because they've got to be better than the lefty foreigner loving alternative, haven't they?
@MoreCashThanDash you are Sir Humphrey Appleby and I claim my £5.
Sadly, I am just a humble civil servant, and have not reached the lofty heights of those receiving an invite to a work event at No10.
Possibly because a lot of what I write on here probably breaches the Civil Service Code 🤣
Amazing to think, that some people look at Nadine and think “there is a formidable and intelligent woman” but no doubt they do
Surely, you only have to watch the interview with Charlie Stayt?
Amazing to think, that some people look at Nadine and think “there is a formidable and intelligent woman” but no doubt they do
Wave a flag, make the right noises about sending forriners back to where they came from and hanging criminals and the proles will vote for it.
Anyway, she was stridently pro-Brexit which is the only current requirement to be a Minister.
Under her, high earners won big and finance became the UK’s boss industry.
I can still remember (as in I can hear it in my head) her saying "a service economy". I am not sure what she meant by it, or whether it would have included providing "services" to Russian oligarchs
Unlike Trump though, in the absence of a written constitution, we don’t have the same capacity to limit the damage
I was emphatically told on here a few years back that we don’t need a written constitution. Like you I’m still not convinced
The Constitution didn't do much for the US in preventing a lot of the egregious shit trump got up to, nearly did, and might do yet. The same situation exists as in this country - the system relies on elected representatives doing the right thing and was never fully conceived to be robust in the defence of the system against those who might try to subvert it. In 2020 trump had people returning papers to the archives acting as illegitimate electors handing trump election wins he didn't earn. Trump was considering re-running the election in swing states he didn't take and even just starting a military coup. Everything was on the table. Pretty scary stuff if you care to look.
Another takeaway from the Peston show was that the public now trust Labour more than the Conservtives on tax.
I prefer the forensic approach that the show takes, using lots of data and graphs rather than the more convoluted and faux adverserial style of Newsnight.
The least unpopular recent former prime minsters are Gordon Brown and John Major.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2022/01/there-is-only-one-popular-politician-in-the-uk
I think they have not suffered in the same way as other leaders because hindsight has shown then to be fairly decent people.
It is interesting that Major's critisms are headlining in the The Times and Telegraph. As, I think to many they represent the conscience of the party.
I think that Major probably personifies in a lot of peoples minds what the Tory Party was before it set off on its transformation into UKIP. Him and Ken Clarke
Him and Ken Clarke
Good old Ken Clarke. Lobbying for tobacco and screwing over haemophiliacs.
However, if you look at the policies this government has introduced that affect people in work directly, some of them are pretty far to the left
FTFY. There are also those who are not in work that we need to care for as a (currently) rich first world country.
Good old Ken Clarke. Lobbying for tobacco and screwing over haemophiliacs.
Thats sort of the point I was making. We despised him (and the rest of them) at the time but he looks like Mother ****ing Theresa compared to any one of this present shower
Major always had a hard time for his dull image, and was "unlucky" that he was PM as the Tory bubble finally burst, and Blair moved new Labour towards the centre pushing the Torues to the right. Though I can't forgive him for shagging Edwina.
Also the last PM who went to state school iirc, brought up on a council estate? So possibly the last one with a social conscience and any empathy
According to Wikipedia brown also went to a state school.
"Brown was educated first at Kirkcaldy West Primary School where he was selected for an experimental fast stream education programme, which took him two years early to Kirkcaldy High School for an academic hothouse education taught in separate classes.[19] Aged 16, he wrote that he loathed and resented this "ludicrous" experiment on young lives."