Reposted in the correct forum.
The outcry that greeted the BBC's announcement that radio listeners outside the UK cannot access Sounds doesn't seem to have changed much, all bar R4 will disappear from July 21st so my favourite weekend listening will go. Anyone found a way around this as I'm bereft.
VPN with location set to UK and then stream via BBC Sounds?
I listen via the app on my phone but via Wiim servers to my amp. I wonder if the ending of BBC Sounds app will filter down?
Also got the app on my phone to play via my car's head unit. Was working today.
I did have a webpage that had some HD streams of lots of BBC Sounds stations but seems most, if not all, are dead links now.
VPN it may well be.
I've been hearing bits and bobs about this and saw an uninformative banner message at the top of the Sounds web page.
What is actually happening? Are the BBC just going to turn off access to their radio stations for the rest of the world?
I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced a subscription service of some sort for overseas listeners at some point in the future, as a way of increasing income.
VPN would be my first option at the moment though.
Yes, it was initially announced to happen spring this year but following an outcry from various groups including Welsh speakers in Patagonia and thousands of ex pats and holidaymakers all over the world, they delayed it and promised a rethink. What actually happened is that R4 only is able to be streamed and some podcasts. It's a crap decision and the savings are minimal compared to the amounts they spaff on "talent" salaries and middle management. The soft power that the BBC generates worldwide is enormous but seemingly this doesn't count
I use Nord VPN to listen to football commentary on radio 5 on the sounds app so I'm hoping it will be as simple as just using a VPN to be able keep using the sounds app . I would really miss it , regularly listen to 6music shows in the car .
Did they not say that there would still be a way to listen abroad just not on the sounds app ?
They come over here, take our RadMacs...
I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced a subscription service of some sort for overseas listeners at some point in the future, as a way of increasing income.
Someone should tell them that other countries also have radio stations...
I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced a subscription service of some sort for overseas listeners at some point in the future, as a way of increasing income.
Which some might say is what they should do.
Of you don't live in the UK and presumably aren't paying a tv licence how exactly are you paying for it?
I used to work with James at the BBC - this is probably a very accurate summary of what/why/outcome
https://james.cridland.net/blog/2025/bbc-radio-overseas-what-now/
and this is the latest which suggests that *live* streams will continue to be available, but not on demand
https://james.cridland.net/blog/2025/bbc-radio-overseas-a-new-plan/
Which some might say is what they should do.
Of you don't live in the UK and presumably aren't paying a tv licence how exactly are you paying for it?
The BBC has some pretty good radio stations but not so good that anyone would pay for them.
There's a lot of truth in the saying, 'If you aren't paying for a product then you are the product'. In this case, people abroad aren't the target of advertisers but they are being used as a way of focusing attention on the UK and, more importantly, what the UK is focusing on.
For me personally, I make my kids listen to 6music. Partly because it's better than the shite they listen to but also it does give them a little bit more of a connection to the UK. Most of what they know about the UK at the moment is me telling them what it was like growing up in Glasgow in the 80s and 90s.
I'm not sure how much license fee payers are paying in bandwidth fees so that anyone in the world can listen to the BBC but I can't imagine it's much. But if the most important thing is that you are saved a fraction of a penny on your license fee so that others can't listen to 'your' radio stations then that's absolutely valid.
My kids will just be listening to Radio Popolare instead.
There'd be no need to have a subscription - they could just do what they do with channels like BBC America - Channels broadcasting BBC content for foreign markets - and have adverts. About 30% of the BBC's turnover is from commercial actively rather than the licence fee and a good chunk of that income comes from advertising, just not adverting on their own channels in the UK (although they do get adverting income in the UK too through their creation of UKTV which uses advert income to buy content from the BBC). So they just need a version of something like BBC Sounds for foreign markets that carries advertising.
But it might not be a license fee issue so much as a music licensing issue. The BBC benefits from a blanket deal for music broadcasting, but only in the UK. If BBC Sounds is building a significant foriegn listenership it'll be putting them in contravention of that deal.
But if the most important thing is that you are saved a fraction of a penny on your license fee so that others can't listen to 'your' radio stations then that's absolutely valid.
Not so i save a fraction of a penny more like. More like if you want the bbc to exist then maybe don't sponge it? And of its not worth paying for then... Don't listen to it?
There'd be no need to have a subscription - they could just do what they do with channels like BBC America - C
To be fair while i did say subscription i did generally mean "generate money in someeway from the freeloaders"
Not so i save a fraction of a penny more like. More like if you want the bbc to exist then maybe don't sponge it? And of its not worth paying for then... Don't listen to it?
I use free services guilt free because I assume we are both getting something out of it. If they decide they don't want me using their free services anymore then I won't use them. Like I said, Radio Popolare is quite happy for people all over the world to listen to them.
Therefore, if 6Music is no longer available, my kids can strengthen their Italian roots while their UK roots can be weakened.
Once they are ready to enter the workforce (having had the entirety of their early life costs paid for by a third country) then possibly the fact they haven't spent their formative years listening to a UK radio station won't have any perceivable effect on where they decide to settle. But it might. In which case the loss of productivity will dwarf any bandwidth costs that might have been incurred growing up.
But if you want to think that all having BBC radio overseas means is that spongers get to splurge on your license fee then go right ahead.
Incidentally, I can't help but notice you're complaining about BBC freeloaders whilst being a Free Member of this forum.
This is not to have a go at Free Members. Just to point out that I'm sure you accept the argument that if you aren't paying for a product then you are the product for this forum but for some reason not for the BBC.
Seems a bit inconsistent.
Incidentally, I can't help but notice you're complaining about BBC freeloaders whilst being a Free Member of this forum.
A. i am not complaining about anyone.
B. I am subjected to the adverts and sometimes i even buy through them. Which is the sgreement asfar as i can see?
C. I don't complain about the website and if they took it away because i don't pay then i would be okay with that.
I'm not sure why you have your knickers in a twist about my opinion. But you are very welcome to not agree.
You seem to be the one with their knickers in a twist about me being a BBC freeloader. I've already said if access to the BBC goes away then I'll just listen to radio stations from places they are available.
However, I've also explained why I think the savings will be minimal and the potential losses could be very costly. Obviously the impact of people losing their feelings of connection to the UK is difficult to measure but I'd say it's not a good thing to lose regardless.
But like you say, we are all entitled to different opinions.
Anyway, it seems to be academic as, according to this page, I'll still be able to freeload:
Apparently I'll just have to listen via a browser rather than the app. Which is what I mostly do anyway.
It really makes me wonder what the point is.
Ha. I genuinely didn't mean anything by the freeloader comment.
Someone used to have it on here as their tagline thing under their username. It always amused me as a freeloader myself.
I sometimes use these URLs to stream BBC radio. Might be useful - for how long, I don't know.
garfnet.org.uk/download/radio/bbc-radio.txt
The BBC has some pretty good radio stations but not so good that anyone would pay for them.
Erm, I happy pay about £170 a year to (in part) fund the BBC's radio output, as do many others.
There's a lot of truth in the saying, 'If you aren't paying for a product then you are the product'. In this case, people abroad aren't the target of advertisers but they are being used as a way of focusing attention on the UK
I wouldn't attribute the "soft power" argument to BBC domestic broadcasting being available overseas, it may be a happy byproduct of technological advances, but it's just happened by accident rather than something intentional, in my view.
The BBC's funding model makes it an exception to that "you are the product" statement.
Speaking as a continental freeloader I've used the Sounds app for years, so I've understandably been looking for another Android Auto friendly source for all my radio needs.
TuneIn is the solution
The whole “just for us fee payers” approach to the BBC completely overlooks how important it has been to our wider culture and economy when it comes to reaching out beyond our borders to sell our products and services.
Erm, I happy pay about £170 a year to (in part) fund the BBC's radio output, as do many others.
Erm, you can actually listen to all the BBC Radio you want without paying £170 a year.
Of course, it's not just TV license payers who fund BBC radio. If you consume BBC content anywhere in the world (and you are somehow paying for it) then you are also funding BBC Radio.
Doesn't change the fact that I doubt anyone would pay just to access BBC radio. Which is probably why it's still going to be available after BBC Sounds is shut off for us foreign types (and I'm still not sure what purpose removing BBC Sounds for foreign users serves).
I wouldn't attribute the "soft power" argument to BBC domestic broadcasting being available overseas, it may be a happy byproduct of technological advances, but it's just happened by accident rather than something intentional, in my view.
The BBC's funding model makes it an exception to that "you are the product" statement.
Just because things happen by accident doesn't make them not valid. Besides, The BBC World Service has been a soft power thing since long before the days of the internet. I suspect the internet just allowed them to expand the scope beyond a single radio station.
I can't help but wonder if this is just an exercise in optics for the BBC. Particularly since the charter is up for renewal and everyone seems to be pretty upset with it at the moment.
Like I said, for me removing BBC sounds is going to be a minor inconvenience since I will be forced to stop using an app and use a browser instead (which I already do when I'm using a PC anyway).
Is it just a bit of red meat for the 'foreign freeloaders stealing our license fee' types:
The BBC has some pretty good radio stations but not so good that anyone would pay for them.
Wrong!
I'd very happily pay my licence fee just for BBC radio and Sounds.
Between radios 2, 4 5 and 5 sports extra along with podcasts such as Tailenders and No Balls I spend hours listening each week. Fantastic quality and no adverts.
Erm, you can actually listen to all the BBC Radio you want without paying £170 a year.
My point is that the money I contribute ACTUALLY DOES PAY FOR BBC RADIO.
And your claim that nobody would be willing to pay for it as a standalone product is highly debatable.
Or to put it another way, of course they ****ing would.
My point is that the money I contribute ACTUALLY DOES PAY FOR BBC RADIO.
Yes, probably as much as I did by watching Line of Duty and The Last Kingdom on Netflix.
I guess we won't be able to settle the question of whether someone living abroad would pay to listen to BBC radio as it's unlikely to be put into practice anytime soon.
However, based on my own experiences, there are a lot of good radio stations in the world you can listen to without paying anything. Given the choice between paying for something and getting something for free most people will choose to get something for free.
Given the choice between paying for something and getting something for free most people will choose to get something for free.
There's a lot of people who could access this forum for free but choose to pay to support something they value.
Even if I didn't have a TV I'd still pay the BBC licence fee as I value the radio so highly.
There's other services I could get for free as well but choose to pay to support them. Walkhighlands.co.uk is just one of them.
There's a lot of people who could access this forum for free but choose to pay to support something they value.
But then we're coming back to the 'If you don't pay for the product you are the product' question. With BBC radio I'd argue it's more nebulous and subtle than bombarding users with pop-up ads but I'd say it's still a relatively cheap 'soft-power' product and, as @kelvin said, it helps promote British bands.
Anyway, this all started because someone suggested the BBC could be going to a subscription model for radio from abroad. I think that would be a terrible idea because I sincerely doubt anyone abroad would pay to listen to radio as there are just too many good options available out there. For example, if you like 6Music here are some alternatives from various countries (including the UK):
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NTS Radio – https://www.nts.live
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Soho Radio – https://sohoradiolondon.com
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RTÉ 2XM – https://www.rte.ie/radio/2xm
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FIP – https://www.fip.fr
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Radio Nova – https://www.nova.fr
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ByteFM – https://www.byte.fm
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Radio Raheem – https://www.radioraheem.it
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KEXP – https://www.kexp.org
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WFMU – https://www.wfmu.org
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The Current – https://www.thecurrent.org
Anyway, like I said, as far as I can see it really is academic as those of us abroad will still be able to access BBC radio stations, just not through the BBC Sounds app (and possibly being able to listen on Catch-up is being removed).
It seems like they aren't removing access, they are just making everything more difficult to find.
Which is why I'm wondering what the point of it all is.
Yes, probably as much as I did by watching Line of Duty and The Last Kingdom on Netflix.
No, the vast majority of the BBC Radio budget comes via the licence fee.
That's literally how it's funded.
I don't feel you're willing to acknowledge that for some reason though?
No, the vast majority of the BBC Radio budget comes via the licence fee.
That's literally how it's funded.
I don't feel you're willing to acknowledge that for some reason though?
According to my search engine's AI summary 68% of the BBC's funding comes from license fees with the rest coming from commercial activities (ie, us foreigners buying BBC stuff).
The vast amount of content consumed (in terms of costs) by license fee payers is TV (assuming the user has ever watched a program with one of the 'star' presenters). Us foreign freeloaders don't watch most of the content produced by the BBC. The stuff we do watch (and pay for) still ends up being used to pay for BBC radio.
Calculating how much you pay to watch BBC TV programs directly vs how much I pay to watch BBC programs on Netflix or NRK or whatever foreign provider is probably impossible. Yes, you pay more directly to the BBC but then you almost certainly consume far more of their content as well.
In all this you should probably spare a thought for the selfless individuals who have to pay their license fee and yet don't consume any BBC content whatsoever. I'm sure in their minds you are far more of a freeloader than I am. They are literally paying for your services and getting nothing in return.
Which is why when it comes to BBC funding it's a slippery slope to start deciding who deserves what.
Putting aside the freeloader thing. I think it was Jamie btw.
I was never coming from a "only licence fee payers allowed"
I was coming from a "if its that good, then if paying for it ,in some way, meant you got to keep listening, would that be a bad thing? "
I've not really seen a convincing argument that it would, subscription... Yeah probably not a goer. But the argument that loss of culture would ensue... Well that also holds true if services are cut or if generally the quality goes down doesn't it? I find radio 6 pretty tedious requiring some heavy dipping in and out but if its anylike the comedy etc. i would say we already see quite a dip in output quantity and quality.
I think asking people to pay for something they've always gotten for free is always going to be a difficult sell. It can work providing you can show a significant increase in what is being provided.
For example, once the downhill went to GCN I decided to pay the £6.99 a month because in addition to the downhill there was a lot of other content I actually wanted to watch. That's why people were so pissed off at being told the cost was going from £6.99 to £30 a month with no improvement in the content provided (from a bike racing point of view).
If the BBC decided to make radio subscription based with nothing extra for the money then I would have to say no. Like I said, there's a lot of really good radio stations out there that are free.
However, if they wanted me to pay a monthly subscription to get radio plus iplayer then that might be something worthwhile.
However, given that the world is generally going headlong into eternal enshitification being asked to pay for stuff we've always gotten for free is something we're all probably going to have to get used to.
Now this thread has made me think about it I realise I am paying the licence fee pretty much for a little bit of glastonbury the other week, and the Archers omnibus.
I do value the BBC beyond what I watch tho so i'll keep at it.
Occasionally driving in a car share vehicle, and having to listen to local commercial radio, is a nice reminder of how much I value the BBC. My god, it's abysmal.
Even the CBC, Canadian equivalent, doesn't hold a candle to the breadth and quality of the BBC. I think I only really properly started to appreciate it after I left the country.
Looks like I'll be using a VPN for the radio, as well as iPlayer 😳
Looks like I'll be using a VPN for the radio, as well as iPlayer 😳
Like I said earlier, it looks like we'll still be able to listen to radio by going directly to the URLs.
Which is why I'm wondering what the actual point of all this is. Access to the stations is not being removed but taking away access to Sounds removes an easy way of finding them, especially on phones and tablets. Access from PCs is more or less unchanged.
I don't understand what they are trying to achieve.
it's just happened by accident rather than something intentional
Not really, there will have been an active decision to make Sounds available outside the UK that is now being reconsidered. Unlike iPlayer for example. As folks have pointed out, BBC output has been, and may continue to be, available on the web for a while.
the BBC World Service was a very purposeful ‘soft power’ instrument. Reductions in Foreign Office support for that have affected its output and continue to do so.
the BBC World Service was a very purposeful ‘soft power’ instrument. Reductions in Foreign Office support for that have affected its output and continue to do so.
I don't think any funding for the world service come out of TV licenses does it?
Not really, there will have been an active decision to make Sounds available outside the UK that is now being reconsidered. Unlike iPlayer for example. As folks have pointed out, BBC output has been, and may continue to be, available on the web for a while.
The main reason iPlayer is not available globally is that the BBC has only commissioned UK rights on much of it's TV content. It would be a legal nightmare.
I grant you that there may have been a "soft power" benefit to Sounds being available globally, but it's a big stretch to imagine a conversation about that ever having taken place under the Tory administrations of the time.
But yes, I'm sure someone asked the question of whether it should be geo-fenced before and they had a reason not to. I've honestly no idea what that reason was though.
Ack that's a shame - I've been loyal R6M for 18 years, across 2 continents; and much of my weekly listening is listening after the fact to the funk n soul show, David Rodigan's 1Xtra show, and so on. I'd listen with ads - the BBC already inserts a bunch of BBC-specific ads into its radio streams, so not a huge difference - but it's the commercial aspect of the music that'll be the challenge I guess.
Not quite sure what to do next; VPN and mobile phone in the short term, and try to see how I can pipe things through my Sonos
