just recently Ive had minor surgery on my Achilles,all has when well and on the road to recovery .but during my consult period i also complained about my knee and the response was its structurally fine so don't worry about it . so i go back today for check up Achilles is great ,so ask agian (different consultant)about my knee as its been sore of late and now this guy is sending me for MRI scan as he seems concerned about it as the pain is coming from just to the side of the knee cap.
this i find frustrating as i now need to tell my work that i need to get more time of my work. how come they couldn't of picked this up the first time around.
you could always try paying for an MRI out of your own pocket?
Maybe it's one of those things that takes time to see and diagnose? It's highly possible that a non-nhs doc would have taken the same route, they're only human.
So they sending you for a MRI scan and your complaining?
We have an NHS...whats your problem? 🙄
BTW, did you know
In the United States, an MRI scan of the neck region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the identical scan costs $98. Under the pressure of cost controls, Japanese researchers found ways to perform the same diagnostic technique for one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese labs still make a profit.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_pf.html
He could be a weak consultant sending you for an MRI scan that he knows will show nothing in order to stop you complaining 😉
Not saying that is the case but quite possible. Everyone wants scanned all the time but scanner time is costly and under pressure.
I had an injury to my elbow that didn't seem to be healing - GP referred me to the orthopaedic consultant. Before seeing the consultant I was sent to a very senior experienced physio who was basically screening for the orthapod. A decent chat with her - told the injury could take 6 months plus to heal, surgury was not indicated any way - and lo and behold she was right. One unneeded referral to the orthapod and one screening appointment that saved the orthapods time.
in fairness its taken 3 physios and now to consultants to spot this .but why did the first guy not send me for a MRI ?
(MRI = £1000)
So let me get this right ......... you tell the doc that you're a little concerned about your knee, they respond by telling you that it's "structurally fine so don't worry about it", you go back after a period of time saying it's no better/worse so they respond to that, by saying 'ok, let's send you for an MRI then ............ and now you are [u]complaining[/u] about that ? 😯
...........yeah, right, "bloody" NHS .... 🙄
[i]in fairness its taken 3 physios and now to consultants to spot this .but why did the first guy not send me for a MRI [/i]
Knee injuries are notorious to diagnose and they often give time it's chance. First guy wouldn't send you as he felt there was no need, they cost money and some one else who needed it more would have to wait. Then there's the fact you've had problems with your Achilles they probably suspected it was this putting load on your knee. There's far more to it then "ooh my knees sore" "Ok let's get you down to theatre and we'll fix that this afternoon."
While medical training is fairly fixed, each doctor has their own methods of working. While it's possible that one was more reluctant to send you for an MRI than the next, why has it got anything to do with the NHS?
I've had two MRI scans done this year and when I asked how much would it cost privately I was told anywhere from £700-£1200 per scan, depends on where I get it done. I can't complain about the nurses doctors as they have all been brilliant.
have to be honest i was looking for the guy to recommend me a good physio , but he thinks i have tore some thing 😐 hence the MRI
you could always try paying for an MRI out of your own pocket?
And why should he?
You could always go private or try fixing it yourself.
Listening to non-stop whinging is one of the "benefits" of working for the NHS. Fekkit, somethines I think I'd rather be Scottish Justice Minister.
[i]And why should he? [/i]
He's not prepared to wait. He doesn't believe the Dr. They're refusing because there's no need.
Maybe you just weren't very good at conveying the problems to the doc?
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/whats-wrong-with-my-legs ]Maybe you told him there is nothing wrong with you?[/url]
Some posts on hear do seem to suggest that people think the NHS is a privilege, not a right.
If one doctor does something not to your liking it's not the NHS' fault.
My Wife was seeing a consultant for her hips that she wasn't really happy with, as he just kept sending her to physio when it hadn't helped for 3 years. She asked for a second opinion from a Consultant who specialises in young adults with her condition. This consultant normally works in the private sector but he takes some NHS patients.
Anyway, she is now getting really good treatment from one of the best consultants in the country, has been booked in for an operation a lot of orthopaedic surgeons don't even offer, all on the NHS!
Bit long winded, but hopefully gets the point across how good the NHS can be.
TJ - Was that very senior experienced physio at the ERI? If so they are probably a consultant physio and earn around £95k, so still not cheap.
Some posts on hear do seem to suggest that people think the NHS is a privilege, not a right.
It is a right
But there's no right to any treatment that any hypochondriac may think they need
I wish more people would see it as a privilege and not just a right.
He's not prepared to wait. He doesn't believe the Dr. They're refusing because there's no need.
i had the choice to go private and not pay (work)for the first opp and am prepared to wait on the nhs as i personally think the waiting times are reasonable .its not that i dont believe the dr it why wait till now to take a look as this was my first problem!
I wish more people would see it as a privilege and not just a right.
Why is that? After all, it is a nationalised service set up to provide healthcare for all that need it. It is such a pity it doesn't deliver on its promises.
i've only just noticed this thread. i recently went to the doc to check out a few things, among them a dodgy knee with pain at various times coming from all round it.
they sent me for an xray straight away, after which i am now sorting out an appointment for an MRI scan. all went smoothly and quickly.
my advice would be move to hackney. 🙂
....... provide healthcare for all that need it
Need is very different to want
He doesn't believe the Dr.
From what I understand from the post, the Dr didn't believe the patient and now, after they had an opportunity to sort the other problem, another doctor has identified a possible problem . The OP DID tell them about the problem at the consult.
Goan no - and no physio earns that much I don't believe. That is more than a surgical consultant.
A senior physio attached to the orthapod team who runs surguries at various points around the city screening for the orthapod.
Need is very different to want
Agreed - but now they accept he did have a possible problem...
[i]Why is that? After all, it is a nationalised service set up to provide healthcare for all that need it. It is such a pity it doesn't deliver on its promises[/i]
You right [b]all that need[/b] it have that privilege but there's those don't need it and see it as a right that they should get some help. It's delivers on many of it's promises but like any industry or business it will some times fail. You saying they failed you somehow maternity with your twins?
M_F - if a large chunk of their funding didn't go on unnecessary procedures such as IVF, then maybe there would be enough left to provide better care for those who have an ailment that effects their quality of life.
The NHS is a privilege.
[i]From what I understand from the post, the Dr didn't believe the patient and now, after they had an opportunity to sort the other problem, another doctor has identified a possible problem[/i]
I read it as he did and he checked it out couldn't see any problems, since then they are still not sure so are sending him for MRI to put him at ease and to rule it out.
TJ - Physios go up to band 9 which tops out at £95k. Sounds exactly the role that the consultant physio attached to ERI Ortho does.
[i]M_F - if a large chunk of their funding didn't go on unnecessary procedures such as IVF, then maybe there would be enough left to provide better care for those who have an ailment that effects their quality of life.[/i]
OMG! Take cover everyone.
unnecessary procedures such as IVF
In my PCT no chunk goes on IVF as they do not provide the service.
The NHS is a privilege.
Which proves that you really don't have an idea what you are talking about.
OMG! Take cover everyone.
Nah, not rising to him on that one - he is just doing it to wind me up, so I have just put him straight on the provision locally.
Goan - I really doubt it. Band 9 is for the people who run groups of hospitals. Band 7 or 8 at best for that sort of role - unless you know better of course
These are examples of roles and the AfC bands at which they may be paid:physiotherapist (Band 5);
physiotherapist specialist (Band 6);
physiotherapist advanced (Band 7).
[i]
Nah, not rising to him on that one - he is just doing it to wind me up, so I have just put him straight on the provision locally. [/i]
Very sensible.
unless you know better of course
Goan doesn't know better, he knows bestestest.
M_F - I know what your provision is locally. But my sister inlaw managed to wangle 4 or 5 lots of treatment out of her PCT, that could have been used to provide other more useful treatment.
I'm sure it's been said before but you do have a large amount of issues in your life don't you Mr Fanylion and even where there isn't really an issue, you do your level best to create one don't you?
Goan
In the NHS, physiotherapists start on Band 5 of the Agenda for Change pay scales. From April 1, 2009 this has been £20,710 - £26,839 a year. Specialist physiotherapists on Band 6 earn £24,831 - £33,436 a year. Advanced physiotherapists and those with management responsibilities on Band 7 earn up to £39,273 a year.At the highest levels, physiotherapy managers and[b] consultants [i]can earn up[/i] to £65,657 a year,[/b] depending on responsibilities.
TJ - In this case I do know better.
Better than the NHS site quoted above. 🙄 I simply do not believe that a consultant physio earns more that consultant doctors.
M_F - I know what your provision is locally. But my sister inlaw managed to wangle 4 or 5 lots of treatment out of her PCT, that could have been used to provide other more useful treatment.
Again, you appear to be talking utter nonsense. The maximum allowed is three cycles as set out by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence.
So unless she somehow defrauded her PCT, or the procedures were undertaken some time ago (the current guidelines have been in place for some 5 years - my knowledge of the rules before then are more shaky), then you are talking rubbish.
No - that is a careers scotland site, not the NHS.
Consultant Doctors get more than that. £100k is what shows up after a very quick look.
M_F - where did I say that this was recent? If I had my way no unnecessary treatments such as IVF would be paid for. Having a baby is a lifestyle choice. If you want one but aren't physically able to then you should not expect the NHS to pay for it.
where did I say that this was recent?
Which is why I said [b]or the procedures were undertaken some time ago[/b]
If you want one but aren't physically able to then you should not expect the NHS to pay for it.
In my opinion, everyone should be entitled to the services that NICE recommend should be available on the NHS. Be it cancer treatment drugs, IVF or whatever treatment, service or drug isn't available at a local level.
Oh how I love a bash the NHS thread.
My burst appendix - in and fixed in a flash.
Wifes almost fatal asthma attack - ambulance in and sorted bloody quick
Son's 30ft fall from a tree - helicopter in and sorted in a moment
Wifes back problem, taken 6 months to get sorted - painful but not potentially life threatening.
My dicky shoulder - round the houses several times and still going, it hurts but I can still ride/surf/work - they will solve it sometime but it is unlikely to kill me.
Never had to show a credit card, insurance policy or get my wallet out.
Get some ferking perspective.
I agree that there should be no post code lottery for want of a better phrase. But, with the condition that non-essential treatments are not available free.
I don't believe that IVF should be available on the NHS but I totally understand MFs frustration that it is in some areas but not in others.
If NICE says it should be available then it should be. I personally believe NICE is wrong but thats why we have NICE - to have experts making these difficult and controversial decisions independently
One round of IVF = one hip replacement. Funds are limited
I don't believe that IVF should be available on the NHS but I totally understand MFs frustration that it is in some areas but not in others.
Without wanting to hijack the OP, I really, REALLY do agree with this. I can honestly say that I would accept it if IVF was not available on the NHS at all, my issue with it all along was the disparity of provision.
When we went through our privately-funded course (due to the service not being available in North Yorkshire), we were treated in an NHS hospital in West Yorkshire alongside other people who were getting the treatment for free. We collected the required drugs from the hospital dispensary and handed over a cheque for £850 (that was JUST for the drugs). The next person collected an identical set of drugs and paid just the standard prescription charge - simply because of their postcode.
That is the madness I remain mad about.
Still, we have our twins now so I really shouldn't be mad should I?
A sore knee to IVF in one thread, now that is good going even by STW standards! 😆
BTW - IVF should NOT be provided free on the NHS. We have enough people on this small, overcrowded and delicate planet as it is. But that’s another thread altogether!
A sore knee to IVF in one thread, now that it good going even by STW standards!
via TJs hips
The sore knee bone is connected to the...
😆 @ uplink
How could i forget...
roger - it goes wrong sometimes. An idiotic rule that says at A&E you will bne treated or admitted within 4 hours meant that I went home with an untreated broken arm rather than be admitted to the same general ward that houses the friday night intake of wino's and headcases. Still, the reason I was close to admission was because people don't gereally die of a broken arm, so I was low priority matched against the potential head injuries that were coming in. That's just the result of an inappropriate target set by a politician who didn't understand how these things work.
It's just that when the NHS feks up, which it does just because of the sheer numbers coming in through the door, that fek up usually has a huge impact on the person they fekked up on
m-f has a point about treatment though. How galling must it be to pay for treatment that others are getting free just because of where they live? Treatment should be standardised, it's either on the NHS or it's not. (Not for IVF - IMO)
Mastiles - Your view of the NHS saddens me a bit, or maybe its just your wording. Yes the NHS is a right to people who live in the UK and pay taxes. However you SHOULD feel privileged to have FREE access to such a good system. If in 2-3 years time, if wards have to close due to lack of funds, they you definately will realise that it is a priveledge.
Goan - Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it!
Back to the original query (I have no medical training). You were referred to a consultant about your ankle, not your knee, and I guess at that point you had not mentioned your knee before, therefore there would be nothing in your notes. I guess he could have been thinking 1. Well it cant be that bad or he would have mentioned it before 2. Could the ankle be putting extra stress on the knee joint.
Maybe consultant #1 wrote in the notes that you had knee pain, and to investigate further if patient mentioned again in future.
the main consultation was for the achilles but the knee was mentioned several times !
as for ivf there will be another post if they use that to treat me 😉
perhaps blaming the nhs as a hole is wrong as i have had some excellent treatment in other areas, but i feel annoyed that perhaps every thing could have been treated as a hole as apposed to stages. i would have waited for this to happen
the knee has given me problems for about 4 years and the achilles is a result of run up hills to separate injuries and not related
the achilles is a result of run up hills
So self-inflicted then.
Why should hard-working taxpayers who have the common sense to walk, not run up hills, pay for your inability to behave responsibly ?
Bloody nhs ? More like the politically correct health and safety nanny state, which is in the firm grip of socialist Guardian readers and BBC lay abouts, gone stark raving bonkers, you mean.
And I bet you're probably an over-weight smoker roundwheels. And an asylum seeker too.
who stole Ernies log in?
Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it
In my dept, the starting salary for a consultant radiologist is £93k. That is ex on call, overtime and private work. I doubt if any of our consultants are making less than £100k.
Consultants do not routinely earn £100k+ the average is between £65-£80k ... and they work bloody hard for it
In my dept, the starting salary for a consultant radiologist is £93k. That is ex on call, overtime and private work. I doubt if any of our consultants are making less than £100k.
who stole Ernies log in?
No one TJ.
I accidentally picked up a copy of the Daily Mail today and read an article by Richard Littlejohn, I now realise just how blinkered I have been as a result of Guardian/BBC propaganda.
Yes, if all these trendy leftie do-gooders weren't so worried about teenage schoolgirls so-called "human right" to get pregnant, then instead of the NHS being forced to provide them with IVF treatment so that they can live on benefits in houses paid for by taxpayers, the NHS might have sufficient funds to provide treatment for decent hard-working aryans.
rogerthecatOh how I love a bash the NHS thread.
Me too:
15 years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, given a 30% chance of surviving - had 7 operations and 3 courses of treatment (Chemo & radiotherapy) which left me sterile!
Did IVF 7 years ago total cost £11,000 (paid by my wife and I) by the time we'd tried twice and allowing for my needing very specialist treatment to father a child. We have a 6 year old and he's worth every penny spent!
My point is not to say I've had it hard but to ask the NHS bashers to tell me at what point should the NHS have stopped treating me?
Just for good measure I was diagnosed with a malignant skin cancer in March of this year which was dealt with swifty, professionally and with fantastic emotional support by the NHS, maybe they should just have said "bugger off you cost us a fortune last time!"
Help - Ernie has been abducted by aryans
I’m far from a NHS basher as I believe they offer an amazing service.
But...
My point is not to say I've had it hard but to ask the NHS bashers to tell me at what point should the NHS have stopped treating me?
Cancer - Involuntary (to an extent) so should be funded.
IVF - Voluntary so should NOT be funded. Overpopulation is one of the biggest threats to humanity we face.
BTW – Glad everything worked out, as it does sound like you where dealt a rubbish hand.
Karma will repay you 😀
Some interesting posts. I'm particularly interested in the voluntary/involuntary debates:
Cancer - involuntary? So that includes cancers of the lung caused by smoking and oropharyngeal cancers caused by excessive alcohol consumption does it?
IVF - voluntary, yes, infertility? Not sure you'd class that as voluntary.
Most of us on here voluntarily launch ourselves down steep hills and often end up with injuries that require NHS treatment - should that be funded?
It's all very easy to have a go at the NHS, the situation is seldom clear cut
so, lung cancer sufferer, life long smoker. Voluntary don't treat.
Infertility isn't voluntary.
In leftyboy's case, the treatment for cancer caused the sterility, still not allowed IVF?
Having children is a "want" not a "need". If there was plenty of money in the NHS pot fine - but there isn't ( we pay less than the european average still despite massive rises). When health care is rationed as it is then expensive treatments that are not needed for someone to be healthy should not be funded.
I don't buy the voluntary / involuntary thing or as its sometimes known the deserving and undeserving patient. simply because its impossible to draw a line that makes any sort of sense. Stitching up self harmers? Treating alcoholics? What about stress related high blood pressure from all those high whizzing city types? Stomach ulcers? etc etc. Probably more than half of all medical ( rather than surgical) treatments are for lifestyle related diseases or for diseases of affluence. Adult onset diabetes for example.
And I bet you're probably an over-weight smoker roundwheels. And an asylum seeker too
sorry to disapoint mate tee total ,Caucasian,hard working family man
so, lung cancer sufferer, life long smoker. Voluntary don't treat.
Yes, if you can prove 100% that the lung cancer was caused by smoking and not the environment the patent lived in. Now that would be an interesting legal case!
Infertility isn't voluntary.
Of course, IVF is though. It does not improve your (physical) quality of life, whereas chemotherapy or any other life saving procedures do. We all know accountants run the NHS and there is only so much money to go round. 😥
In leftyboy's case, the treatment for cancer caused the sterility, still not allowed IVF?
No, as he would have signed a consent form which will have informed him of all possible side effects of treatments he was about to undertake.
Having children is a privilege not a right 🙄
Anyway it’s time go and ride my bike down some really steep hills with rocks, trees and barbed wire on 😆
IVF - Voluntary so should NOT be funded. Overpopulation is one of the biggest threats to humanity we face.
errrmmmm couldn't one use the overpopulation argument as an excuse to not treat any disease/ailment? sure would help whittle down the population 🙂
Anyway it’s time go and ride my bike down some really steep hills with rocks, trees and barbed wire on
Do make sure to fall off and injure yourself, so you can get VFM from the NHS!
sofatester:No, as he would have signed a consent form which will have informed him of all possible side effects of treatments he was about to undertake.
Actually no as I was admitted as an emergency after losing 4 stone in 4 months and suddenly started pi**ing blood instead of urine. Straight in for surgery, no consent signed as I was semi-conscious from the combined weight and blood loss! After the event I asked about the whole chemo & fertility issue and was told I would already be infertile due to the progression of the cancer, apparently this happens in rare cases.
Having children is a privilege not a right
Easily said if you are able to father children naturally. The issue of over population is mainly down to families having 'lots' of children, but they have that right and therefore unless we adopt (no pun intended) the Chinese attitude to birth control we have to accept that our population is growing.
Possibly the hardest decision I've ever had to make was to not try for a second child via IVF, my wife would have liked a second child but the stress/costs/risk (we're 'older' parents) meant we didn't.
Easily said if you are able to father children naturally
Yes - I think that is the most important thing to consider when stating that IVF shouldn't be available to all on the NHS. I do know that there is at least one contributor on here that accepted that children were not his destiny as he was not able to father, but I would imagine that the vast majority would want and expect access to the service if and when they found it was required.
And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally.
[i]And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally. [/i]
:O
Am I not being clear?
I mean that I do not think that someone who has never experienced infertility could honestly say that they would not expect to get the service on the NHS should they subsequently find that they need the assistance.
For example, Poster A says 'IVF should not be available on the NHS because of x, y and z' yet they have never been in the position of needing IVF so I do not feel they have sufficient experience to be able to honestly say how they would feel if they later found they needed the help, either through their or their partner's infertility.
The first Doctor was right to leave it a while.
Unless it is serious then it should be fine or go away on it's own.
If it's still there after a week then sure the 2nd Doc was right.
Frustrating for you and work I know but you have to patient when being a patient...
Blimey is this thread still going? I thought we would have all been out riding out bikes by now!
[b]leftboy[/b] sounds like you had it bad there, hope everything is working out for the best now. 🙂
And I don't think anyone is qualified to answer it unless they have been through the experience personally.
TBH that is probably the last group of people you want to ask as they will hardly ever be able to give a rational, rounded answer. Obviously you would take there opinions on board but also use none biased sources as well, who can look at the big picture without emotion.
I know it's hard for some people to accept but having children is a like any other personal "want". Some people want to own a big house, some want a fast car, other want Children and some even want more that one. Don't know why though, as one is hard enough work! 😆
TBH that is probably the last group of people you want to ask as they will hardly ever be able to give a rational, rounded answer. Obviously you would take there opinions on board but also use none biased sources as well, who can look at the big picture without emotion.
I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. I am not saying those that have been through the experience should be [b]making[/b] the decisions for the NHS, I mean they are the ones that are qualified to say whether they would expect to have the procedure covered by the NHS. For someone who has no desire to have a family, or for one in a relationship where conception has come naturally to say it shouldn't be covered hasn't been through the experience to know how they would actually feel.